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Thread: Loosening up and the secret of enjoyment

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    I'm in a similar position to the OP so I'm going to respond.

    Everything you guys have said in reply is beautiful, but is it really all necessary? And if it is, why now? When I started drawing none of this mattered. I could just pick up a pencil and have a great time, completely ignorant to all that you posted above. I wish I could take my improved talent but reclaim the mindset I had when I began, when having fun drawing manga was so easy and worry-free.
    This. what i've spent paragraphs trying to get at has been said so simply here, thanks for making me feel stupid...


    As for you specifically Sonny, four things I have to say about your post,

    1.
    What your describing as bad stress sound more akin to a light depression. admittedly depression can act as a powerful enhancer to stress, but they are different things. That said taking a light depression into mind might explain why your 'good stress' (oxymoron if ever i heard one) is having a negative effect on me in this case as i have been in that downwards spiral for some time now.

    2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny
    And there lies the issue. It's not a 'but still' problem. If you want to improve and enjoy the drawing process, then you have to work on it and give yourself a bigger toolbox to work from. It may take years. Ask yourself this: with every picture you are drawing, what new concepts are you learning? Is there a process that will help me learn new concepts in every drawing? Am I able to apply this new art concept that I just studied on in this same old picture or style?
    Sorry, this statement just bugs me so what your saying is that in spite of my research into additional artistic knowledge, because i choose to stick to one medium (for reasons ranging from finances to past experiences teaching me that for slight OCD messier mediums don't work for me) or one broad subject (i like drawing people, the human body intrigues me) i'm not increasing my artistic tool box. Perhaps if i were sticking to a less broad subject i might not argue, but half of my attempts to break out of my comfort zone are still within that category; my comfort zone is a small space of only 2-3 poses and fewer camera views with no backgrounds, pushing past my comfort zone has involved trying to portray more dynamic poses, using backgrounds and layout effectively, and thats just the starting points. Yet your words here sound to me like you would discount all that because i'm not going into complete left field for subject matter or tools ans sticking to what i enjoy?

    3.
    So i have been trying to Use reference wrong, well doing it right under a different name; seriously the things you describe in your 'face in a magazine' example is more or less what i do looking at various drawings or even just people on the bus occasionally. Another point Also your mermaid example leads me to believe you don't know what stress means, what your describing as stress there just sounds like plain old hard work.

    Well we're on the subject of that mermaid example, do mind terribly answering why you made that. You say now, in looking back on it that you gained alot of knowledge and experience from it, but was gaining that knowledge and experience from it the initial reason you did it? i ask because the way you describe things is that drawing/art is all about broadening your toolset so you can do better and have fun, and yet i find that a depressing and unrealistic outlook, every thing i want to draw should first be thought of in regards to what i can learn from drawing it, not my own enjoyment? seems like a terrible way to approach a hobby, a job perhaps but not a hobby.

    4.
    congratulations on not answering my question on thumbnails. What you have given is the What and Why wheras i wanted the how which you never even tried to touch on. With regards to gesture drawing you actually explain more than i've head anywhere else, but if you could actually explain what flow points are clearly it would be a lot more useful.


    I suppose i shouldn't be so critical of someone trying to help me (I orignally wasn't going to post this, but Fenn saying what i was trying to in so few words needed to be pointed out) but these just bug me and i needed to say something...
    I have no problem with you spanking me. However, I have a huge problem with you not spanking me...

  2. #12
    101 Dalmations Member The_shaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    I'm in a similar position to the OP so I'm going to respond.

    Everything you guys have said in reply is beautiful, but is it really all necessary? And if it is, why now? When I started drawing none of this mattered. I could just pick up a pencil and have a great time, completely ignorant to all that you posted above. I wish I could take my improved talent but reclaim the mindset I had when I began, when having fun drawing manga was so easy and worry-free.
    Like I already said, art is problem solving and this is something I never truly realized until recent in my life as an artist. There is a miss belief about art and artist that we create this amazing composition whatever it is in photo realism or anime, medieval fantasy or sci fi. We sit there and create; we create because we simply enjoy doing it. Yes, we practice for hours in a day, but we spend all that time doing it because it’s fun, and when we are finish we have it. A lot of people do understand, just like a lot of artist themselves don't understand the problem solving we have to put into creating the drawings and paintings people enjoy to look at. We have to figure out exactly who what we are working on works; how to fix it if it doesn't, how to improve it, and how to complete it. I don't know how I can work it any simpler... it’s like algebra whether you emit it or not. When it comes to art there is always a formula that we as the artist must figure out. The composition is the problem, and our medium is the variables. The techniques we learn and apply, along with our own understanding on how it works is how we solve the problem. Maybe this will help some
    “From: Tony Sasser Jr
    To: mail@mattdixon.co.uk
    Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:22 PM
    Subject: RE: A young novice.

    Thanks it helps me understand a little bit more now, I always did do thumbnails before I use to try a full scale sketch, not as of lately though. I do hear try to relax a lot when it comes to my sketches and drawings, and I will say I do get over stressed at times. I try to understand and apply all these elements like anatomy and perspective to my work and start getting frustrated because something is always off or wrong. Its even more so when trying to exaggerate the anatomy to try and draw realistically things that don't exist or animals. How do you over come the frustration, I can and do spend days drawing doing things from anatomy practice, to doing a still life or two to the point I feel like I can't try anymore (yesterday being one of them.) Than in the end they frustration of looking at what I done and not feeling satisfied with out, or feeling I'm not growing at all in my work.”

    “From Matt Dixion
    I'm not sure we ever fully overcome the frustration, Tony. You have to accept that developing your skill is a long, slow process and even after a lifetime of study, there will still be new things to learn. Try to embrace the idea that all artists spend their lives learning. I think that makes things a bit easier. You can then look at your peers and see that we're all just at different points on the same learning curve, and you can start to judge your own work not by how successful you view the finished piece to be, but by what you learned as you were making it. That's my attitude, and it helps to motivate me when I feel as if I'm not progressing - even if I hate what I've just done, I can look at it and try to figure out what I could have done to make it better.

    Above all, remember that you're not alone. We ALL feel the same. I do, and so do all the other artists I know. We're all haunted by doubt, dissatisfaction and frustration with our work but those feelings can help to push you on to try and improve. That will ultimately make you a better artist.

    Keep the faith, brother!

    Matt”

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardic-Dragoon View Post

    H*** the how/process (as opposed to what or why) of a lot of seemingly basic or useful skills doesn't seem to click for me; Thumbnails (getting ideas down quick and dirty is not something i have ever done ever if memory serves), gesture drawing (how exactly is someone supposed to even get a mark on the paper before times up), reference (seriously just how, i can't think of a clearer definition of the problem than that), and thats just what comes to mind.
    Thumbnails; you get at sonny for not answering a how, when I don’t even see a how being asked in this post. Simple make a small box probably no bigger than 2 inches in height, and 3 in weight or vice versa (measurements aren’t important) and scribble and doodle inside. Stop looking for the eye candy in the drawing and just lay down basic shapes and compositions. The purpose of doing this is to help us get a feel for where everything goes, this again falls under the problem solving part of everything you do as an artist. It also help shows you how something does and doesn’t work, its easier to fix something that doesn’t work in a thumbnail than in a full blown composition. Here are examples of thumbanails I have done. Eye candy is all that lovely detail that people get so caught up with in their drawings that they try to floss over the basics.
    thumbnails
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...thumbnails.jpg
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...page0001-1.jpg
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k.../polly1006.jpg
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/polly005.jpg
    In these last two you can easily see three thumbnail in the top left
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...1_Final022.jpg
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...1_Final023.jpg
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...tfrog028-1.jpg

    in this one it is hard to see but in the bottom left
    http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...board024-1.jpg

    gesture drawing; it’s possible I can do it, and I know artist who can do it in time I just have my jaw drop, but the point of gestures are to just do them, don’t try and do a fully rendered piece.
    Bam gesture, doesn’t look like shit, but it’s not meant to,, its meant to help you grasp whole of the form and the fluidity in movement and poses
    http://www.learn-to-draw-lessons.com.../dogs15sec.gif
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D5N81cFKPM.../gesture4F.jpg
    http://raedrawsalot.blogspot.com/201...1_archive.html

    References … they are meant to give you example of structure of something and how it works. They are meant to inspire by design. Using a reference is more than just looking at it and copying, see the shape, I want to say more but I would have start getting more specific, because I wouldn’t use a reference of the human anatomy the way I would use a reference for an environment. Hope this helps.

  3. #13
    Teen Member Sonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardic-Dragoon View Post
    1.
    What your describing as bad stress sound more akin to a light depression. admittedly depression can act as a powerful enhancer to stress, but they are different things. That said taking a light depression into mind might explain why your 'good stress' (oxymoron if ever i heard one) is having a negative effect on me in this case as i have been in that downwards spiral for some time now.
    Ah, yes. Perhaps I should elaborate on 'good stress'. I think the term would be better handled with 'productive stress'. Learning new things is a type of stress because you're diving out of your comfort zone. While the initial step is stressful in its own right, once you do 'get it', it will help you lead to that enjoyment that you seek. Again, this is different than hitting a wall where you are limited to what you can do due a small toolbox. Like I mentioned, this can take years for your toolbox to grow. This leads to my next statement on learning...



    Quote Originally Posted by Bardic-Dragoon View Post
    2.
    Sorry, this statement just bugs me so what your saying is that in spite of my research into additional artistic knowledge, because i choose to stick to one medium (for reasons ranging from finances to past experiences teaching me that for slight OCD messier mediums don't work for me) or one broad subject (i like drawing people, the human body intrigues me) i'm not increasing my artistic tool box. Perhaps if i were sticking to a less broad subject i might not argue, but half of my attempts to break out of my comfort zone are still within that category; my comfort zone is a small space of only 2-3 poses and fewer camera views with no backgrounds, pushing past my comfort zone has involved trying to portray more dynamic poses, using backgrounds and layout effectively, and thats just the starting points. Yet your words here sound to me like you would discount all that because i'm not going into complete left field for subject matter or tools ans sticking to what i enjoy?
    I think this statement can be explained better with an arithmetic analogy. Let's say art is equalled to math. If people were simple arithmatic formulas of plus' and minus', then learning landscape would be akin to learning new concepts such as exponents/powers. The reverse can be said if you started with landscape as your basic + - / * formulas (then people may be your exponents/powers). Regardless, each particular new subject has an opportunity to take your basic knowledge that you have learned and apply it to something else while learning new concepts.

    If learning people taught you proportions of the human body and how to shade it, then learning landscapes will not only take what you know about shading and proportions, but introduce new concepts like foreground, middleground, and the background. On top of that, you will be introduced to new techniques of shading for elements like trees, rivers, mountains, etc.

    Please don't get confused with medium and subject areas. Your medium, whether it be pencil, paint, or digital painting, is your tool for you to explore different subject areas such as people, landscapes, waterscapes, fantasy, abstractism, etc. What new subjects you will explore will depict how your skillset will grow with the medium you have chosen to use. Of course, changing your medium can also reward you with knowledge of new techniques or new ways of doing things you never thought was possible.

    You have to realize that, as an artist, you are a problem solver. You are an engineer, you are a scientist, you are architect, etc. of your own world. You have to be all these things and more. Sure, you can stick with what you enjoy, but eventually, it will lead to this 'light depression' that you are referring to because you're not able to move on.

    Please don't twist is with the idea that I am discouting your efforts, though. More importantly, this isn't an issue with sticking to one thing you enjoy. It's an issue of opportunity costs. Sure, you can draw people and learn as much as you want, but the learning you will get out of it is linear at the most. Try something different and exponentiate your learning process. This is because when you learn from other areas, once you go back to your thing that you enjoyed the most, you will excel farther than you first imagined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardic-Dragoon View Post
    3.
    So i have been trying to Use reference wrong, well doing it right under a different name; seriously the things you describe in your 'face in a magazine' example is more or less what i do looking at various drawings or even just people on the bus occasionally. Another point Also your mermaid example leads me to believe you don't know what stress means, what your describing as stress there just sounds like plain old hard work.
    If you're already looking at those things, then I applaud your efforts! Now you need to apply what you can analyze into other sources of work. Like for example, if the shadows on the face looks like that, how will the shadows look like on other parts of the body? With this type of shading that I analyzed on the face, can I apply it to other textures such as concrete, sand, leaves, etc? Or is it the reverse (I learned this type of shading somewhere else...can I apply it to this particular face)?

    As for saying I don't know what stress means, that's a rather bold claim don't you think? Like I mentioned, this took me out of my comfort zone. It was hard work, I can't deny that since I am looking at various references to make it work. However, there are time limits set for most of my projects. This illustration showed two things: learning concepts out of my comfort zone and doing it with at due date set since, as I mentioned, this was for a client. I fail to see how this can not be stressful in its own right. I only made it look easy with the end result. But as soon as you live the entire process, this is the 'good stress' that I was referring to.

    Is it different from just doing it as a hobby? Of course as you don't have a time limit. But it doesn't change the fact that any new subject areas that you can explore will increase your toolbox; regardless if it's something you dislike. Again, it's not to discount previous efforts from doing something you like, but any thing that you can learn outside of your comfort zone is beneficial and will only add to your skill sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardic-Dragoon View Post
    Well we're on the subject of that mermaid example, do mind terribly answering why you made that. You say now, in looking back on it that you gained alot of knowledge and experience from it, but was gaining that knowledge and experience from it the initial reason you did it? i ask because the way you describe things is that drawing/art is all about broadening your toolset so you can do better and have fun, and yet i find that a depressing and unrealistic outlook, every thing i want to draw should first be thought of in regards to what i can learn from drawing it, not my own enjoyment? seems like a terrible way to approach a hobby, a job perhaps but not a hobby.
    There were two reasons for doing this: first, the client asked for it. Secondly, it was an opportunity for me to fill in the 'gaps' about what I know. As stated before, I have never done an underwater scene before. Thus, I had to research it thoroughly as best as I can. How do bubbles behave? How does lighting work? In exploring other areas, you should look for these gaps. What are your gaps? What subjects can you think of that can help you fill in these gaps?

    You may find that it is depressing and unrealistic, but I find this opportunistic and VERY realistic. Why? Because, as stated before, the ultimate goal of an artist is for you to be able to build your own world. Gone are the days of caveman drawings. Your enjoyment will come naturally as soon as you create a strong artistic foundation grounded in studying the real world--not just what you like to draw initially.

    There's always a hump in anything, including hobbies. That feeling is no different from that stamp collector that is depressed that they can't get that 'one stamp' to finish a particular theme, regardless of how much they enjoy their hobbies. It's the same for being a hobby type artist. The question is whether or not you're willing to find solutions to get out of this 'little depression' or just let it take a hold of you. One possible solution? Explore opportunities through other subject matters and then come back to it. Everything I've written so far is a point of view from a person that has managed to get through multiple humps in his little art hobby/career.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardic-Dragoon View Post
    4.
    congratulations on not answering my question on thumbnails. What you have given is the What and Why wheras i wanted the how which you never even tried to touch on. With regards to gesture drawing you actually explain more than i've head anywhere else, but if you could actually explain what flow points are clearly it would be a lot more useful.


    I suppose i shouldn't be so critical of someone trying to help me (I orignally wasn't going to post this, but Fenn saying what i was trying to in so few words needed to be pointed out) but these just bug me and i needed to say something...
    I believe I had answer your question about thumbnails. But in case it wasn't clear:

    What
    A thumbnai is a series of small sketches to think of many different compositional situations.

    Why
    Since it's about compositional ideas for your picture, you have to look at the meaning of composition. To be specific, composition allows you to guide your audiences' eyes. Do you want them to focus here or do you want them to focus over there?

    As a hobby artist, you may not use it as much as you would like because you're not at that step that requires it. For example, if you're only doing character designs, there's no need to use thumbnail sketches as that only centers around a character standing straight/still. Now, if this character is moving, then you are going to have to look at thumbnail sketchs to bring your character into a plane of view that captures movement and interaction with the backrounds/foregrounds.

    That's where thumbnails come in.

    How
    The method of creating a thumbnail is open to your own medium. SOme like doing multiple consecutive images in a row, using a pencil and paper, that depicts a story (think story board artists). Other uses for thumbnails show different angles of the same subject or concept. By learning multiple compositonal techniques and the advantages of each, such as the rule or thirds, golden ratio, spiral shell compositions, etc. you should be able to construct a scene which gives you priority on how you want your audience to look at your picture.

    As for flow points, I think I can explain it through a tutorial (again if you're interested, the tutorial is located at http://www.2d-digital-art-guide.com/draw-a-fox.html

    Take this gesture sketch and take note of the direction of how I was thinking of the fur. These are the flow points for the fur. Obviously, you can do anything with flow points as they only siginify direction in a way for you to fill in the missing pieces.



    For the finished piece:



    Look at the flow points. It's now integrated to become natural flowing and segmented fur. That is the whole reason for them: as I means to guide you through creating form that just makes sense. This is a process that works for me extremely well as it is a result of managing a solution for creating realistic fur.

    I hope I answer most of your questions.

    Cheers,

    Sonny.

    Edit: looks like me and The_shaman share the same sentiments. <3
    Edit 2: link is fixed.
    Last edited by Sonny; 05-12-2011 at 09:48 AM.

  4. #14
    999 Knights Member Matt's Avatar
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    Sonny, I believe I'm going over the same "it wasn't like this when I first started" hump as Bardic Dragoon is. All I can say is that your advice helps immensely. Also, your site is amazing and I have newfound inspiration to pick up my drawings and move into another dimension.

    Thank you.

  5. #15
    999 Knights Member Gedeon's Avatar
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    Sonny is like a.......art prophet! @w@
    Problem?
    Quote Originally Posted by GunZet View Post
    Mmm, yes, considering he's Serbian, he might.... overwork the ladies. Don't need that.

  6. #16
    Fenn
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    There's always a hump in anything, including hobbies.
    Well this sucks...I appreciate your posts though sonny and shaman. I still just can't fathom that this is all required to have fun with art, when a few years ago it was simply paper, pencil, and idea.
    Last edited by Fenn; 05-11-2011 at 10:06 PM.

  7. #17
    101 Dalmations Member The_shaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Well this sucks...I appreciate your posts though sonny and shaman. I still just can't fathom that this is all required to have fun with art, when a few years ago it was simply paper, pencil, and idea.
    When I talk about art, I talk about it as a hobbyist. As a hobbyist you don't need a damn thing but paper and pencil to enjoy it, just like all you need is a quarter or a deck of cards to play a game. The things being mentioned by sonny and myself are things that push more into someone who looking to jump into a whole new world. The biggest difference between a professional and a hobbyist is not simply someone makes money and the other doesn't. Its actually one can enjoy drawing while remaining unknown to everything said here, while the other is required to be in that world where all this stuff are steps are necessities.

    bottom line, if all you want to do is have fun, just grab a number 2 pencil, some lined sheet of paper and draw. If you seriously want to improve and grow as a artist, even if you want to remain a hobbyist; than a understanding of this stuff is required.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
    I think this statement can be explained better with an arithmetic analogy. Let's say art is equalled to math....

    ...This is because when you learn from other areas, once you go back to your thing that you enjoyed the most, you will excel farther than you first imagined.
    I hope thats enough to get across what part of your post i'm talking about here, I really don't want to have a giant wall of text, and quoting the full section is not going to make that easy...

    anyways, perhaps stating that your words discounted my efforts is a bit too strong of word choice on my part, but to a certain degree what you said before (and to a much much lesser extent what you have just said) can easily feel/be interpreted as such. Part of this may be due to not fully explaining my situation (to make a long story short this drawing hump has been the last 4-6 years of my life and i've hit the point of the downward spiral you discussed earlier that with exception to 'gun to my head, do it or else level' external motivation my motivation has pretty much bottomed out to nonexistent and i'm only here cause my desire is pretty much the polar opposite on the scale) but it still stands i have been looking into pretty much any art topic that crosses my mind or eyes looking up on it and studying it (mostly from a theory perspective albeit for reasons after this break) and trying to incorporate it into stuff with wall banging levels of frustration and failure. subjects ranging from more human specific topics (my main reason i really got into drawing was character designs form my stories when my vocabulary fell short of describing something, mainly period specific clothing) to broader topics like how light works (nothing so fancy as how it works under water though, but then again the last time i wanted draw something underwater predates this art hump by around a half century) including how certain light sources cast slightly different colors of light ( for example if i remember correctly fluorescent lights tend cast slightly cooler colors than tungsten lights or the sun) to design, to differentiating the 'layers' (fore, mid, and background) with everything from detail to color saturation to color scheme (adding a bluer tint will supposedly add depth to very far off objects such as mountains miles off in the distance) and more.

    thing is not all of it clicks in my mind, and my efforts to force it don't really seem to work (heck the repeated failures from trying to force it might be to blame for shrinking comfort zone and lack of motivation). Let's take for example Gesture drawings, I've seen peoples gesture drawings time upon time, heard the reasons they're good even more so, even once or twice heard explanations on the process/seen recordings of people doing it. Try as i might, i can never seem to replicate the concept. I'll admit i haven't tried in awhile, but for a good two or so months i was, well not quite obsessed but it's the only word thats coming to me, with the concept and was trying it regularly with nothing but failure. Even with your explanation of 'flow points' it still isn't wholly making sense (i'm willing to accept you went light in the description in th post with the intent of the link filling it in better, but the link is broken).


    Quote Originally Posted by The_shaman View Post
    When I talk about art, I talk about it as a hobbyist. As a hobbyist you don't need a damn thing but paper and pencil to enjoy it, just like all you need is a quarter or a deck of cards to play a game. The things being mentioned by sonny and myself are things that push more into someone who looking to jump into a whole new world. The biggest difference between a professional and a hobbyist is not simply someone makes money and the other doesn't. Its actually one can enjoy drawing while remaining unknown to everything said here, while the other is required to be in that world where all this stuff are steps are necessities.

    bottom line, if all you want to do is have fun, just grab a number 2 pencil, some lined sheet of paper and draw. If you seriously want to improve and grow as a artist, even if you want to remain a hobbyist; than a understanding of this stuff is required.
    If you'll allow a quick anecdote The Shaman:
    Earlier today me and an acquittance were discussing professional athletes and similar 'your work is to have fun' kind of jobs. Are general consensus (as guys BSing about such stuff is likely to be) was that they are all to serious for playing a game and getting paid to do it. But if you think about it realistically how much work is it to play that game for them, to play that game at that level. Position centric training, just training in general actually. It might even stop being fun because they have to keep pushing to a higher level in order to beat all the people at their top level.

    I'm guessing this is what your getting at when you point out the real difference between hobbyists and professionals. That said, i see one difference between artists and athletes in this regard. In my experience (and from the sound of it Fenn, though i cannot truly speak for him) you can reach a point where the 'fun' level of things just stops existing/working just by doing it.

    In a sport, ok i don't play sports so lets say something of a similar ilk on the 'pro vs hobby' bit fighting games, anyways in a fighting game one can play with some buddies, chuck a few hadoukens or what have you and enjoy yourself. Your play style and skills may never hold a candle to the likes of Justin Wong, or heck even the scrubbiest of tournament players (i used to play a guy who did occasional tournaments in GGXX and Tekken, he never made it to the finals etc., but still stomped me into the ground 90% of the time) but it doesn't stop the good times.

    with drawing though it seems like the exact opposite has happened, sitting around and chucking a few hadoukens is frustrating and no longer fun. The way you and Sonny are talking unless i take my game to that tournament level play it won't ever be fun again. Mind you it is wholly possible i'm not looking at this from the right angle; but it's not fun now, and unless i spend a (potentially) long time not doing it for fun and fun only it never will be again. I admit i'm exaggerating a bit on the whole 'not having fun at it' stage of things, i'm sure it can be fun, if only in the sense of it being rewarding as you hit each new milestone, but my past attempts at just that (discussed above in light detail) don't shine much hope on that being as true, even if it's just by me being a special case on the matter.

    well thats my wall of text for now, and what a wall it is, China should be jealous. suppose i failed at not making it a giant wall like i planned but if you'll pardon my French (LOLZ IZ FUNNY) c'est la vie. honestly though, I hope you haven't lost patience yet; for once one of these bloated 'i need help' threads feels like it's actually bearing fruit.
    I have no problem with you spanking me. However, I have a huge problem with you not spanking me...

  9. #19
    Fenn
    Guest
    When I talk about art, I talk about it as a hobbyist. As a hobbyist you don't need a damn thing but paper and pencil to enjoy it, just like all you need is a quarter or a deck of cards to play a game.
    That's just it. I am a hobbyist, and suddenly this doesn't cut it. Instead...

    with drawing though it seems like the exact opposite has happened, sitting around and chucking a few hadoukens is frustrating and no longer fun. The way you and Sonny are talking unless i take my game to that tournament level play it won't ever be fun again.
    Just to clarify, we (or at least I) aren't looking for a quick fix. It's more of a vent and discuss topic. But Bardic is right: why can I have fun with video games and sports without ever worrying about getting better, yet with art I must consciously try to improve to maintain the enjoyment level. I just want to sit and have fun drawing manga damn it, not sit for a half-hour trying to get the first shape right!

  10. #20
    999 Knights Member Matt's Avatar
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    I try not to think about getting my first shape right. If I try to get everything right, I end up with an art block. I realize that the stuff I'm drawing that I think looks like crap CAN look awesome to other people. When I was first starting out, I wasn't concerned with others' opinions on my drawings. Now that I am . . . wait, no. At the moment, I'm not concerned at all about it, and I just completed an hour-long sketch and line art session. AND I HAD FUN.

    There's no real way to get someone to "stop worrying," but that works well enough for me. I just draw what I enjoy, preferably with a short-term goal in mind (get some clean lines on this picture) and a long-term goal for good measure (the art in HSDK? Yeah, that's where I wanna go).

    I read a book yesterday that classified those "quick fixes" (ex. positive mental attitude, etc.) as secondary skills compared to the primary trait of our nature. I haven't finished the book yet, but it deals with altering what you are at your core, THEN adding perks with the secondary skills (I talk about this like a game because the game analogy is more fun). When I finish the book, I'll see how I can put it to use and maybe give advice here.

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