I hope thats enough to get across what part of your post i'm talking about here, I really don't want to have a giant wall of text, and quoting the full section is not going to make that easy...
Originally Posted by Sonny
anyways, perhaps stating that your words discounted my efforts is a bit too strong of word choice on my part, but to a certain degree what you said before (and to a much much lesser extent what you have just said) can easily feel/be interpreted as such. Part of this may be due to not fully explaining my situation (to make a long story short this drawing hump has been the last 4-6 years of my life and i've hit the point of the downward spiral you discussed earlier that with exception to 'gun to my head, do it or else level' external motivation my motivation has pretty much bottomed out to nonexistent and i'm only here cause my desire is pretty much the polar opposite on the scale) but it still stands i have been looking into pretty much any art topic that crosses my mind or eyes looking up on it and studying it (mostly from a theory perspective albeit for reasons after this break) and trying to incorporate it into stuff with wall banging levels of frustration and failure. subjects ranging from more human specific topics (my main reason i really got into drawing was character designs form my stories when my vocabulary fell short of describing something, mainly period specific clothing) to broader topics like how light works (nothing so fancy as how it works under water though, but then again the last time i wanted draw something underwater predates this art hump by around a half century) including how certain light sources cast slightly different colors of light ( for example if i remember correctly fluorescent lights tend cast slightly cooler colors than tungsten lights or the sun) to design, to differentiating the 'layers' (fore, mid, and background) with everything from detail to color saturation to color scheme (adding a bluer tint will supposedly add depth to very far off objects such as mountains miles off in the distance) and more.
thing is not all of it clicks in my mind, and my efforts to force it don't really seem to work (heck the repeated failures from trying to force it might be to blame for shrinking comfort zone and lack of motivation). Let's take for example Gesture drawings, I've seen peoples gesture drawings time upon time, heard the reasons they're good even more so, even once or twice heard explanations on the process/seen recordings of people doing it. Try as i might, i can never seem to replicate the concept. I'll admit i haven't tried in awhile, but for a good two or so months i was, well not quite obsessed but it's the only word thats coming to me, with the concept and was trying it regularly with nothing but failure. Even with your explanation of 'flow points' it still isn't wholly making sense (i'm willing to accept you went light in the description in th post with the intent of the link filling it in better, but the link is broken).
If you'll allow a quick anecdote The Shaman:
Originally Posted by The_shaman
Earlier today me and an acquittance were discussing professional athletes and similar 'your work is to have fun' kind of jobs. Are general consensus (as guys BSing about such stuff is likely to be) was that they are all to serious for playing a game and getting paid to do it. But if you think about it realistically how much work is it to play that game for them, to play that game at that level. Position centric training, just training in general actually. It might even stop being fun because they have to keep pushing to a higher level in order to beat all the people at their top level.
I'm guessing this is what your getting at when you point out the real difference between hobbyists and professionals. That said, i see one difference between artists and athletes in this regard. In my experience (and from the sound of it Fenn, though i cannot truly speak for him) you can reach a point where the 'fun' level of things just stops existing/working just by doing it.
In a sport, ok i don't play sports so lets say something of a similar ilk on the 'pro vs hobby' bit fighting games, anyways in a fighting game one can play with some buddies, chuck a few hadoukens or what have you and enjoy yourself. Your play style and skills may never hold a candle to the likes of Justin Wong, or heck even the scrubbiest of tournament players (i used to play a guy who did occasional tournaments in GGXX and Tekken, he never made it to the finals etc., but still stomped me into the ground 90% of the time) but it doesn't stop the good times.
with drawing though it seems like the exact opposite has happened, sitting around and chucking a few hadoukens is frustrating and no longer fun. The way you and Sonny are talking unless i take my game to that tournament level play it won't ever be fun again. Mind you it is wholly possible i'm not looking at this from the right angle; but it's not fun now, and unless i spend a (potentially) long time not doing it for fun and fun only it never will be again. I admit i'm exaggerating a bit on the whole 'not having fun at it' stage of things, i'm sure it can be fun, if only in the sense of it being rewarding as you hit each new milestone, but my past attempts at just that (discussed above in light detail) don't shine much hope on that being as true, even if it's just by me being a special case on the matter.
well thats my wall of text for now, and what a wall it is, China should be jealous. suppose i failed at not making it a giant wall like i planned but if you'll pardon my French (LOLZ IZ FUNNY) c'est la vie. honestly though, I hope you haven't lost patience yet; for once one of these bloated 'i need help' threads feels like it's actually bearing fruit.