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Thread: Be Vicious

  1. #21
    One Thousand Member JJJorgie's Avatar
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    I think you should try to draw bodies and learn anatomy before you add the clothes. I'd like to see some unclothed figures (http://www.posemaniacs.com/) of yours because the clothes you draw seem to add weird bulges but I really don't know if they're the clothing or your attempt at human muscles.

    There are a lot of errors in each picture, so I'm going to give some basic anatomy tips:
    1. Average humans are about 7 heads tall (your's are like 9-10)
    2. Your upper bodies are way too long. The upper body (above crotch with head included) is about the same length as the lower body (may vary a LITTLE bit depends on the body shape)
    3. The wrist will be level with the crotch.
    4. The upper arm is shorter than the lower arm with the elbow usually slightly above or at the waist.
    5. Eyes are halfway down the head and an eye's length apart from each other. Also, depending on the perspective, eyes may vary in width, but they'll ALWAY be the same height as eachother.
    6. Hands are as big as the face. Feet are as long as your lower arm.

    Hopefully these tips will help.

    A couple things to add about the first drawing: her shoulders and chest are extremely wide compared to her head. One eye is lower than the other. Her wrists are TINY, along with the hands. Her heads a little wide compared to her face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonfyre View Post
    She has spoken and so we must obey!

  2. #22
    101 Dalmations Member Wolfen300's Avatar
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    Thanks, JJJorgie! As for the chick, I used the completely wrong model and gave up on the wrist and her hands. As for the head height to body height, these characters (except Lucian, who is 7 and 1/2 due to being a teen-based character) are 8" tall, with one inch heads without hair. Does hair count toward height?
    The bumps you're seeing are probably the clothes, as I'm still working on where creases and wrinkles form, but I'll post some that are lacking clothes so you can check my work 'cause I know I need it.
    The eye height thing... I keep erasing and redrawing so I forget where the eye originally was. Plus its hard to find an eye style I like so far.

    I know I need to work on tendons, as that will change the spacing especially on the arm. Haven't done the legs in detail yet, I'll post that when I get it done

    "I'll slap you so F******* hard it'll feel like you kissed a f****** freight train."-5FDP

  3. #23
    Three Trio Tres Member theAnimeRebel's Avatar
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    uuuhh... Why are you drawing the tendons and stuff? That's incredibly advanced/detailed and actually not that helpful in regard to getting the basics, such as form and proportion down.

    Try drawing just the muscles, with the "skin on." This will probablly be more helpful as far as improvement goes.

    Pic 1: The upper legs are really the only things that look good here. The chest is wonky and the upper arms are waaay too small. Not to mention that the knees are going to turn out as huge if you leave the lower legs where they are/the size they are.

    Pic 2:These aren't how the back muscles connect at all. The shoulders and "barrel" are too wide/big in comparison to the lower body.
    SPOILER! :


    Pic 3: As Jorgie mentioned, the upper arms are too big for the lower arms. Plus the amount of muscle on the deltiods/whatever those muscles above the ribs are called aren't substantial enough to support the amount of musclature on the arms. The hand sizes are weird too, but just call that "stylistic" and don't worry about it until you get the arms down.

    There is a difference between studying anatomy and studying anatomy as an artist. Art is supposed to be scientific/mathematical, but if you pin yourself down by making proportion charts and the like it will only hinder yourself. The most important thing is for you to draw naturally. Draw from real life. Take a picture of your own arm and draw that if you need to, whatever. Copiious and tedious copies of anatomy diagrams will only get yourself burnt out sooner or later.

    I know all that seems contrary to everything I said before... but believe it or not anatomy isn't as important right now as form. Get the general idea down, and don't get lost in tendony details.
    Sorry if that seemed vicious
    "Make sure the room is brightly lit and stay far away from the TV."

    (Also, I'M BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!)

  4. #24
    101 Dalmations Member Wolfen300's Avatar
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    I just sketched the hands on so I could see which way the arm was twisting for the view.
    And besides what did I title this thread? "Be Vicious." Can't improve if no one's being harsh, dude.

    "I'll slap you so F******* hard it'll feel like you kissed a f****** freight train."-5FDP

  5. #25
    101 Dalmations Member Wolfen300's Avatar
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    possible nsfw? though he's as anatomically impaired as a ken doll.
    SPOILER! :

    Female pose from TSO's album, first page on the lyrics
    SPOILER! :
    Last edited by Wolfen300; 06-17-2013 at 11:38 PM.

    "I'll slap you so F******* hard it'll feel like you kissed a f****** freight train."-5FDP

  6. #26
    Three Trio Tres Member theAnimeRebel's Avatar
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    Please excuse the roughness of all these, I drew them on Paint with the touchpad on my laptop. I did the best I could. X___x

    Crotch:
    SPOILER! :



    You see the circle there? This whole area is sort of awkward... I will show you why.



    1. I call this the "underwear area" note the shape. This is also called the pelvis. The hip "socket" balls rest underneath the "ledge" there, and the shape of the top of the leg fits into that hollow.
    2. This uh, "area" comes down between the legs... the legs don't pinch together, there is space there.
    (I forgot to draw the butt, but you get the idea)
    3. I'm reiterating how the leg attaches to the socket here.
    4. Hanes underwear band. Actually, take in the shape of the "hip area" as a hole, sans the legs, pelvis and sockets. See how it looks like a "D" placed on its side? This D is what connects the hips to the abdomen.


    Neck and shoulders:
    SPOILER! :




    1. See how the shoulder muscle connects to the collarbone? It’s fluid and overlapping, which is what I think you were trying to do.
    2. The arm muscle connects with the chest muscle, and the back/side/rib muscle there goes behind the armpit.
    3. See how the elbow connects? There is a narrowing there but not much. The forearm and upper arm are basically cylinders that rest on top of each other. Don’t worry too much about achieving form right now.
    4. Shoulder and neck are in front, the trapezoid or whatever that’s called is behind.


    Leg:
    SPOILER! :




    There is an extra bulge in the lower leg. But it’s supposed to be one smooth piece of the body… there should not be extra bulges.
    1. Notice which way the leg bends. While the post “ken-guy” strikes might be achievable in real life, it’s too feminine and the pose itself is lacking in luster.
    2. Note the knee… it’s a circle
    3. Note the lower legs. See how there is only one “bulge?”


    The Lady:
    SPOILER! :




    You seem to be improving with every picture you draw. I’m impressed.
    1. The legs and arms, and possibly the head are out of proportion. But I didn’t address that here.
    2. The circled area where her ribs meet her abdomen is too sharp of an angle---there should be no “bend” there, is anatomically impossible. The rib cage should connect smoothly to the stomach. While the torso is flexible, it doesn’t come in two parts
    3. Something is a little off here, But I’m not sure what. She needs a belly, me thinks.


    The most important thing to realize with all this is that human anatomy, even “difficult” human anatomy, is really just a bunch of simple shapes stuck together.

    Hope this helps.
    "Make sure the room is brightly lit and stay far away from the TV."

    (Also, I'M BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!)

  7. #27
    Super Senior Member Demonfyre's Avatar
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    uuuhh... Why are you drawing the tendons and stuff? That's incredibly advanced/detailed and actually not that helpful in regard to getting the basics, such as form and proportion down.
    Actually, the tendons are extremely important; they produce a vast amount of surface changes which can be noticed if you have a keen eye. Also I would suggest working on the musculature like you were doing before since it is imperative you understand them and the way they change to properly understand the forms you are constructing for the body and its anatomy. However I will agree with Rebel in that simplicity is key, always work from simple to detail, but don't ignore the small things as Rebel suggested. When studying a body you should always be thinking about the small things, why is the slight tone cast over the muscle? Why is the part of the body forming this shape? What physical changes seem to suggest the movement? etc.

    Edit: In regard to the tendons again, it really does depend on the pose though and the build of the model though, but still, I wouldn't suggest disregarding them as petty details.

    However, I do agree that if you are working on proportions then you should probably do some gestures and work on that separately, but that would be my tact. They can both be worked on together to be honest.


    However, back to the musculature anatomy, the main problem you are having is that they are just random floating forms currently. I would suggest adopting an analytical approach where you design simple shapes for large bone masses and attach muscle to it. That should really help your study.

    SPOILER! :


    Apologies for my poor drawing, but it describes what I was meaning; particularly with the deltoid attaching to the humerus. However you don't need to design a bone shape, a cylinder which indicates the perspective of the arm also works well. Lastly, in these studies you need to pay attention to how each muscle attaches and how it changes with positioning, you should keep in mind that you aren't merely drawing the body - you are analyzing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfen300 View Post
    I actually think this is really good since you are actively studying the muscles, nice work. Remember, to include skeletal landmarks though; the scapulae would be seen from this pose. Also for a second note, remember that latissimus has a notch out of it at the bottom, it can be simplified as a bowl with two legs sticking at the bottom (the 'legs' of latissimus would then join to the pelvis).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfen300 View Post
    The upper leg should be a bit longer and conversely the lower leg should be slightly shorter; whenever in doubt always do the check. The end of the torso trunk up to the top of the head are generally around half of the body size, the legs then take up the other half. Then the knees are half the distance between the end of the torso trunk and the feet, so generally the upper and lower leg are approx. the same length with the foot making up the remainder of the leg length.

    The arms are extremely thin, maybe go back to the musculature and check up on the extensors and flexors in the forearm, and then the biceps, triceps and deltoid in the upper arm. When looking at them try to make comparisons of the widths of the arm in comparisons to other parts of the body, this will help you to maintain proportion and correct thickness etc.

    The clavicles are in a weird shape, and the angle of the neck to the trapezius is very sharp. The trapezius will soften the decline and so you should see a curve or slope.

    These are just some notes I noticed, but with time and practice these will iron out.
    Last edited by Demonfyre; 06-18-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  8. #28
    101 Dalmations Member Wolfen300's Avatar
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    Much appreciated, Demonfyre! As for your "poor drawing," it was good enough to get the point across.
    The pose: she seems abnormally thin and long on the reference, too, but I see exactly what you're saying and will re-attempt it to correct it. The clavicle was hidden on the reference so I was trying to take a guess at what it would look like at that angle.
    My proportions are wrong because I don't fully understand the skeletal and muscular structure, so I'm working from the absolute basis of bodies outwards, using mannequins for the simplistic drawings and then attempting the skeleton in the more detailed ones.

    Rebel, I'll find and post my reference for that one. The shoulders weren't level, there was only one side of the neck visible, and his elbow positions were forced. His legs were different angles, the left(his left that is) leg more sharply bent. It's on posemaniacs.com. http://www.posemaniacs.com/archives/635 It's this one. Except mine's flipped because it's a picture of a drawing.
    Last edited by Wolfen300; 06-18-2013 at 12:56 PM.

    "I'll slap you so F******* hard it'll feel like you kissed a f****** freight train."-5FDP

  9. #29
    Three Trio Tres Member theAnimeRebel's Avatar
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    That's incredibly advanced/detailed and actually not that helpful in regard to getting the basics, such as form and proportion down.
    I never said that drawing the tendons and stuff was trivial... just that it isn't the best thing to focus on when starting out. (that was at Demon)

    It seems like you're going about this a little backwards, which there is nothing wrong with, but I would suggest building basic figures before you move on to drawing musclature and tendons and such.
    "Make sure the room is brightly lit and stay far away from the TV."

    (Also, I'M BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!)

  10. #30
    Super Senior Member Demonfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theAnimeRebel View Post
    I never said that drawing the tendons and stuff was trivial... just that it isn't the best thing to focus on when starting out. (that was at Demon)
    Alright, sorry, I just read it as if you were implying that

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