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Thread: LGBTQ! Why so many anti gay slurs? NSFW/K

  1. #361
    Fenn
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    But isn't the maintaining of such labels a perpetuation of the social stereotypes of men and women?

    Definitions such as homosexual, bisexual, etc make sense because they are referring to sexual orientation. The "expressive sex" of man and woman, rather, would not exist if we didn't stereotype men and women based on their actions.

    Look at examples such as tomboys. They perform in most ways like a heterosexual female: they have female organs and are attracted to males. Yet they act in some manners in ways that usually are considered the domain of men. Where does the line between tomboy and transsexual even lie?

  2. #362
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    No, we would. What you're talking about is getting rid of gender roles, which would only solve half the problem as transgender people are also at odds with their own bodies, not just their gender roles. So that's why there is a separate term for that: to identify that conflict between mind and body. The purpose is purely semantic.

  3. #363
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    But isn't the maintaining of such labels a perpetuation of the social stereotypes of men and women?

    Definitions such as homosexual, bisexual, etc make sense because they are referring to sexual orientation. The "expressive sex" of man and woman, rather, would not exist if we didn't stereotype men and women based on their actions.

    Look at examples such as tomboys. They perform in most ways like a heterosexual female: they have female organs and are attracted to males. Yet they act in some manners in ways that usually are considered the domain of men. Where does the line between tomboy and transsexual even lie?
    No because the simple fact is that, as I said, every single society seems to have a concept of gender, and then the simple fact of the existence of non-cis people suggests strongly too that the idea of gender is something innate to the human mind. For whatever reason humans seem to innately form gender identities, and every once in a while it seems that this identity doesn't quite match up with their actual sex.

    Gender roles can be done away with without causing harm, but I don't think it is possible or desirable to remove the concept of gender.

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  4. #364
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Not to be an ass, but how so?
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  5. #365
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    No because the simple fact is that, as I said, every single society seems to have a concept of gender, and then the simple fact of the existence of non-cis people suggests strongly too that the idea of gender is something innate to the human mind. For whatever reason humans seem to innately form gender identities, and every once in a while it seems that this identity doesn't quite match up with their actual sex.

    Gender roles can be done away with without causing harm, but I don't think it is possible or desirable to remove the concept of gender.
    Alright then. It just gets me nervous that I'm gonna offend someone because they appear to me to be of one gender even though they identify with another.

  6. #366
    Regular Member Lucy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Alright then. It just gets me nervous that I'm gonna offend someone because they appear to me to be of one gender even though they identify with another.
    Don't be too nervous about that. While it's upsetting for a trans person to be called by pronouns and stuff that they don't identify with, it's their job to inform you that you're using the wrong ones, or present as the gender/sex they want you to know them as. If the person you are talking to is reasonable, then you should only really offend them if you knowingly try to force it on them or something. People who expect you to read their mind are simply unreasonable.


    Also, I mainly kicked the religious nut because of the cheek of what he was doing at a gay pride parade. I find it quite offensive that he'd go up to a bunch of people who are happy living the way they are living and basically say "Your lifestyle is some kind of sinful affliction! Bow down to me and my superstitions!" It was immature, but bite me, someone was going to and I'm pretty sure he'd rather it was a lanky, scrawny translady that one of the bear gays that would pound the shit out of him instead. Additionally, tell me you haven't ever done anything silly because someone was being an asshole and I'll tell you you're lying. Human condition, and all that.
    Last edited by Lucy; 09-13-2011 at 02:03 PM.

  7. #367
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Lucy, the problem Conservatives and religious people have with you and non heternormative sexual orientations and gender identities is not your lifestyle, or your actions. It's the mere fact you exist.

    To quote something I wrote on my facebook a whiles back:
    We like to think in binaries - simple ones at that. Day is not-night, a girl is a not-boy, and so on. And transgender and genderqueer individuals threaten that cozy binary. Suddenly we have girls who cannot be defined as simply as 'not-boy'. It's terrifying for a lot of people, I think, not only because of the innate human hatred of that which is different, but because it challenges our own preconceived views of what and who we are. No longer can a man identify himself simply as a not-girl. It forces people to be introspective and forge for themselves their own identities, rather than those society handed them, and for most of us that is a terrifying prospect and it is much easier to simply hate and denigrate the non-binary other than it is to - pardon the rather sexist terminology, but I am sleepy and cannot think of another turn of phrase that works quite as well - man the fuck up and define yourself on your own terms.

    I imagine the same argument can be laid at issues regarding homosexuals and bisexuals and other non-heteronormative sexualities. They challenge our binary definitions. The religious nonsense and other filth just provide a cozy post-facto rationalization for these hatreds/fears and create a diseased cultural environment in which this sort of perverse thinking can not only survive, but thrive.

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  8. #368
    Regular Member Lucy's Avatar
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    ^Captain Kodos sails the HMS Truth into another informative adventure, fun for all the family. I should be more careful how I word things. If you weren't here clearing shit up I'd probably have most of the populace thinking that I defined myself as bigendered or something rather than a woman.

  9. #369
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
    Also, I mainly kicked the religious nut because of the cheek of what he was doing at a gay pride parade.
    I totally missed that bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
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  10. #370
    Devilish Member Slurpee's Avatar
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    I just find it absolutely strange how I haven't met anyone homophobic in my school. o_o I tell everyone I'm a boy and they're like "okay cool".
    Where I used to live people thought I worshiped Satan.

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