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Thread: Drugs are bad, mkay?

  1. #271
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    One thing I AM wondering about that would go against drugs AND fast food is health care. If people OD or fall to illness/injury due to drugs or fast food, either one, and they don't have health insurance, who has to pay for their health care? The tax payers of course. Right?
    Wow Fenn, you truly live in USA. I bet you also don't give money to homeless because you say they will waste it on drugs.

    People who get to attached to fast food and have a bad health because of that, they have psychological problems that let them develop the dependence with the food. So, if a man have weight problems, heart problems and diabetes because of fast food, his problem is not the main fast food per se, are the psychological problems he have and he focus on food. So tell me, it's wrong to help someone who have psychological problems or habit problems?

    In the case of drugs the dependence can be psychological or biological. Some medicament that doctors gave have biological dependence, also cocaine, cigarettes and coffee can produce biological dependence. As you can see, can we not gave help to people that their problem is coffee or some medicament? And also cocaine? Cocaine is illegal and it will never be legal, so if you get in to it, you obviously did against the law, but can you left that person with his addiction and blind your self about him? At the end if you left the addicted alone, he will keep his behavior of addiction.

    In the case of drugs with psychological dependence, the case is equal at the one for fast food, his dependence was triggered because other problems. So how can you left people alone and not help them?

    I dunno, when people say "taxes are going to hobos, drug addicts and whores" they are being extremely retarded, and they almost want their taxes to be for them and no one more. As I see, taxes are to keep moving the state, to help others and to help the infrastructure of the public buildings (if education is public, payed by taxes, then it also help education). Also when people point countries as Sweden where people pay 60% of their money in taxes, and claim that is awful, think it again, because with those taxes they are paying education, health, public services and also keep the state on movement.

  2. #272
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    Wow Fenn, you truly live in USA. I bet you also don't give money to homeless because you say they will waste it on drugs.

    People who get to attached to fast food and have a bad health because of that, they have psychological problems that let them develop the dependence with the food. So, if a man have weight problems, heart problems and diabetes because of fast food, his problem is not the main fast food per se, are the psychological problems he have and he focus on food. So tell me, it's wrong to help someone who have psychological problems or habit problems?

    In the case of drugs the dependence can be psychological or biological. Some medicament that doctors gave have biological dependence, also cocaine, cigarettes and coffee can produce biological dependence. As you can see, can we not gave help to people that their problem is coffee or some medicament? And also cocaine? Cocaine is illegal and it will never be legal, so if you get in to it, you obviously did against the law, but can you left that person with his addiction and blind your self about him? At the end if you left the addicted alone, he will keep his behavior of addiction.

    In the case of drugs with psychological dependence, the case is equal at the one for fast food, his dependence was triggered because other problems. So how can you left people alone and not help them?

    I dunno, when people say "taxes are going to hobos, drug addicts and whores" they are being extremely retarded, and they almost want their taxes to be for them and no one more. As I see, taxes are to keep moving the state, to help others and to help the infrastructure of the public buildings (if education is public, payed by taxes, then it also help education). Also when people point countries as Sweden where people pay 60% of their money in taxes, and claim that is awful, think it again, because with those taxes they are paying education, health, public services and also keep the state on movement.
    Did I not post on the previous page how we should promote services to help people get OUT of these addictions? The whole reason I brought up the tax situation was to make the point that even actions such as eating fast food and doing drugs, which appear to only affect the user, end up affecting everyone else in some way too. Thus it is in everyone's best interest to promote healthy living for those around us. Healthier people, less taxes we have to pay to take care of addicts. So we should care.

    In the case of drugs with psychological dependence, the case is equal at the one for fast food, his dependence was triggered because other problems. So how can you left people alone and not help them?
    This kind of thinking scares me. Would you say the same for a thief? A murderer? Although fast food addiction is not a crime, persay, you can still say that their actions were caused by psycological reasons. So are we just going to stop holding people responsible for their actions and blame everything on "psycological reasons?" Where do you draw the line of responsibility? If I'm hearing you right, you believe the obese person has no choice but to keep eating a.k.a they've lost all control.
    Last edited by Fenn; 08-17-2011 at 02:18 PM.

  3. #273
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    The whole reason I brought up the tax situation was to make the point that even actions such as eating fast food and doing drugs, which appear to only affect the user, end up affecting everyone else in some way too.
    Welcome to life. In here everything that you do can screw someone else, no joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Thus it is in everyone's best interest to promote healthy living for those around us. Healthier people, less taxes we have to pay to take care of addicts. So we should care.
    When the state also care about the health, it need to work from the root, which is food in schools. The state has to do everything it can to take care of health, but there is a point where people need to do things by them selfs. After that, we need to take care of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    This kind of thinking scares me. Would you say the same for a thief? A murderer? Although fast food addiction is not a crime, persay, you can still say that their actions were caused by psycological reasons. So are we just going to stop holding people responsible for their actions and blame everything on "psycological reasons?" Where do you draw the line of responsibility? If I'm hearing you right, you believe the obese person has no choice but to keep eating a.k.a they've lost all control.
    Wow you are a morron, don't you? You are comparing crimes with eating unhealthy. Oh wait, I think I understand your point, you want to put in jail people who eat mcdonald, don't you?

    Yes, criminals do things by psychological or contextual reasons, but a crime is a crime and they have to pay for their actions, and the state needs to integrate this people back in the society. If a guy is caught doing a crime, he has to go to a jail, no to only to pay a sentence, but also to be reformed as a citizen.

    You know what is more scary? that you are actually saying that crimes are the same as eating bad or doing a drug.

  4. #274
    999 Knights Member Gedeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    Wow you are a morron, don't you? You are comparing crimes with eating unhealthy. Oh wait, I think I understand your point, you want to put in jail people who eat mcdonald, don't you?
    Oh come on. Don't be so harsh! And that's just being plain mean! These threads arn't meant for you(anyone else) to call people names, no matter how much you disapprove his opinion(although i agree that those two shouldn't be compared).
    Problem?
    Quote Originally Posted by GunZet View Post
    Mmm, yes, considering he's Serbian, he might.... overwork the ladies. Don't need that.

  5. #275
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Dude it's Clockhand.

  6. #276
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Yeah clock chill out even if fenn thinks that all fat people should be burned at the stake and their children sent to internment camps.

  7. #277
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    I honestly don't recall Fenn saying or even suggesting any of that.

  8. #278
    Fifty Fifty Member Evil_Cake's Avatar
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    ya he must have edited the post

  9. #279
    Fenn
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    [QUOTE=ClockHand;37886]Welcome to life. In here everything that you do can screw someone else, no joke.

    Thanks for ignoring my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    When the state also care about the health, it need to work from the root, which is food in schools. The state has to do everything it can to take care of health, but there is a point where people need to do things by them selfs. After that, we need to take care of them.
    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink (or whatever the expression). Do you know what happens to all the "healthy choices" that schools offer in place of junk food? It ends up in the trash. Kids literally buy a full tray of food, usually pizza, hot dogs, chicken nuggets, watevr, and ignore the veggie on the side. Then they drink their chocolate milk, and their dessert. In fact, there are kids who will just use their parents money and get 2 desserts, or not eat at all, rather than eat healthy.

    It goes back to what I said before: you have to get people to break the habit willingly, not by force.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    Wow you are a morron, don't you? You are comparing crimes with eating unhealthy. Oh wait, I think I understand your point, you want to put in jail people who eat mcdonald, don't you?
    No, I want people to take responsibility to their actions. If criminals have to, so should the rest of us. Telling an obese person, "It's not your fault, it's just a psychological issue," is making an excuse for them to use to stop feeling guilty.

    They SHOULD feel guilty. Why? It's GOOD FOR THEM! If they realize, "Woah, this is my life, andmy decision, and I'm the one who needs to take charge and fix this, because no one else can do this for me," they will be more likely to change their habits.

    STOP CLOCKHAND! I know what your going to say. Before you reply, know that I am NOT saying we can't help them. I'm saying we can't make the decision for them. They need to make the big step and say, in honesty, "I want to change my habits." We can help encourage and support them in their efforts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    Yes, criminals do things by psychological or contextual reasons, but a crime is a crime and they have to pay for their actions, and the state needs to integrate this people back in the society. If a guy is caught doing a crime, he has to go to a jail, no to only to pay a sentence, but also to be reformed as a citizen.
    I think I replied to this above.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    You know what is more scary? that you are actually saying that crimes are the same as eating bad or doing a drug.
    Fenn said: Although fast food addiction is not a crime, persay, you can still say that their actions were caused by psycological reasons.
    Read my f***ing posts.

  10. #280
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    1. In here we have other expression, "shut up and eat". Of course kids are going to cry and all that, because they are already spoiled, so everything is their parents fault. If you go to Italy try to find a McDonald, I bet you that you are not going to find one, this is because Italians are proud of their food and eating, and of course McDonald is equal to bad food for them. In USA you have kids who are taught by their parents that fast food is good and that they can eat what ever they want.

    Yes I agree, there is a point where people need to be responsible by them selfs, but are you going to tell me that you don't want to help? that you don't want no one to take care of this situation? People are always going to deny their problems and do what they want, so you need someone to be grown up there, and the state has to take care of it, to teach kids and parents what is healthy and what's not. After that I think you will have marked the line of responsibility, if the kids and parents gave a crap about everything you tried to do for them, then ok, there is nothing else you can do. If they, after a unhealthy life, need a new heart or some health care, would you deny them? No, because even if they didn't learn from everything you tried to teach, you are choosing for them to live no to die. Of course it will not be the same for someone who is addicted to fast food to get a heart than someone who is not, it will be sightly the same as drinkers trying to get a new kidney.

    2. Wow, first you compared unhealthy living with a crime, and now you are saying that those people need to feel guilty? First you need to understand 2 points, there is people who live unhealthy and there is people who is addicted, who is addicted has no control over his/her situation, a person who live unhealthy has control over it, but he/she doesn't want to change anything. Now, how can you (as a state) discriminate between both to gave health care? you can't, you can try, but the system will fail eventually, so you chose to help both (better help both that none).

    Also, would you say that someone who has a kleptomaniac disorder should go to jail? Most of those people doesn't notice what they are doing, so how can you blame someone who has no control over his actions? Is different stealing with a meaning (get profits) than stealing by a psychological disorder, you can see which one is different easily, but is not the same with food, and neither is our job to handle others as criminals when they are just being lazy.

    I agree, someone who lives unhealthy has to do the first step, but someone who have a addiction will not do such a thing. Is like saying a cocaine addict is going to enter to rehab by himself.

    We can't make the decision by them, but we can gave them tools to take the better decision.

    3. I keep reading your fucking post, and for some reason I keep reading some bitterness against fat people from you, don't know why. Maybe it's the comparison with criminals? Or that fat people should feel guilty (probably you want them to commit suicide?)? I dunno, but for some reason, I think some fatty kid did something to you in the past.

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