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Thread: Traps & Reverse Traps

  1. #21
    Junior Member Dluzions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zizi View Post

    And you know, I bet you didn't know that, I bet OP didn't know that, because people generally don't know this stuff. So instead of climbing onto some "anti PC" moral high ground that's made out of the bodies of my trans sisters and siblings, just apologise. Know better next time.

    P.S hi guys
    It's true I didn't know about this stuff until I posted this thread.I never meant to insult you and your sisters and siblings.
    I'm really sorry if I hurt or caused you any trouble or harm.

    However I just wanted recommendations on animes that have these type of characters. I never wanted to start an argument about it but now I know better.

    P.S. Hi ^.^ I recently joined. Yorushiku o-negai shimasu!
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  2. #22
    For Sparta! zizi's Avatar
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    The term "trap" though is specifically used to identify a crossdressing character in an anime.
    and it's specifically transphobic and you now know better.

    ETA: Thank you, Dluzions. That's literally all anybody wanted.

  3. #23
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Trap characters in anime and manga have almost nothing to do with transexuals, seeing as they aren't transexuals. Sometimes they may be transvestites, but still, that's not a guarantee. Loads of "trap" characters are just the result of the main character making the wrong judgment in their minds and not bothering to verify.

    Anyone who makes a connection between the two is being an idiot.
    Last edited by Bacon_Barbarian; 07-26-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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  4. #24
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Trap = A man that appears to be a woman.
    Transvestite = A man that appears to be a woman.
    Transwoman* = A man that appears to be a woman.

    Maybe I'm an idiot, but those three concepts seem hella similar to me.
    Come on, Bacon, I know you. You are a both smarter and a better person in general than this.

    *From the standpoint of your average, transphobic, person. Which is who we're talking about because we're talking about how the term 'trap' is bad because of what views it reinforces in your average person who is ignorant of trans* issues.

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  5. #25
    For Sparta! zizi's Avatar
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    Hey Bacon, next time you want to call someone an idiot because you're too ignorant to understand the ways in which transvestite, crossdressers, and transgender people are conflated, intrarelated communally, and the complex relationships between crossdressing and transgender issues especially with regards to fiction: shut the fuck up.

    P.S It's still fucking offensive and wrong to call a person a 'trap' regardless of what you think you're describing.

    P.P.S A lot of anime and manga characters that are explicitly transgender are treated as transvestites and/or crossdressers by the narrative, especially in English translations. This also happens in western media. (Eg. characters continuing to use 'he' pronouns and call the trans character 'a man', ignoring how the character themself identifies. Friends does this with Chandler's transgender mother, for example.) This is because media is transphobic. Weird how that happens.

  6. #26
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    I'm saying the context of trap in and out anime are two entirely different things, and conflating those is silly, as they generally don't actually have to deal with one another in a direct manner. They are ostensibly related, yes, in that they cover the same ground, but they aren't the same. Which is my main point. The people who I called idiots in the above post are not those who are transgender and trying to differentiate complex relationships, but those who purposefully just lump things all together in a prejudiced manner.

    I see that wasn't clear now. And for that, I apologize.

    With that in mind, as offensive or inoffensive as the character type in anime may be to individuals who are trans, the people who enjoy the character type are, more likely than not, not going to be transphobic themselves. Giving Dluzions a lesson in proper PC lingo is a good thing, words can and will always hurt people. That stated, Zizi, do you have a suggestion as to what the "trap" characters in anime and manga should be referred to? If you do, I would greatly appreciate knowing an inoffensive term for the archetype.
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  7. #27
    For Sparta! zizi's Avatar
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    Thank you for the clarification, and no, I don't have a suggestion because I don't engage with enough anime and manga to know what ~trap~ is supposed to be describing outside of "this person is thought to be [x] gender but is ACTUALLY Y GENDER" (although you yourself said they're often crossdressers, so that's one term right there) and also because honestly the 'trap' character themselves, as with western media, can be handled in straight-up transphobic and awful ways and honestly there is no way of sanitising that. (See: any time the joke is 'lol you're gay now' when a man kisses a transgender woman, or the reaction is one of disgust and fear when a woman is outed as being transgender, or any of the other millions of ways that trans women get degendered and dehumanised by media.)

    Like, part of the reason that this is a problem in and of itself is the way that 'trap' doesn't distinguish between crossdressers and trans women. The idea of a trans woman as being "a man in a dress" is a common understanding of, and a transphobic understanding of, trans women. This doesn't just go away when applied to a specific area of media.

    Also: when I talk about people 'being' transphobic I don't mean 'people who would stab a trans person' I mean people who undertake actions that further or enact the underlying pervasive myths, revulsion and fear that people are taught to have about trans people. Good people can be transphobic simply because the culture that we live in is transphobic.

    My stake in this conversation is simple: I am the ~trap~ that you're talking about, that gets depicted in media including anime and manga, and I'm not particularly ok with it. But whatever; trap is a bad word, please don't use it to describe people, yadda yadda.

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