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Thread: Thoughts on Dragon Ball

  1. #1
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Dragon Ball

    Yeah so I just reread the whole of Dragon Ball and DBZ, and while it reaffirmed some of my problems with the series, a lot of stuff I didn't get before just clicked with me and I really enjoyed it.

    I will just post some general thoughts and you guys should too.

    -The Buu saga is a clusterfuck. At this point it was obvious Toriyama couldn't figure out ways to make dudes stronger so now people fuse together, unfuse(???), absorb people and all kinds of shit. Also the idea that Goku kills Buu completely runs opposite the idea of the old being replaced by the new that the Cell saga established.

    -Despite fusion seeming like an idea for another comic that wasn't DBZ, Gotenks is great. As a character he reminds me of somebody you would have seen in the original Dragon Ball. He has all these ridiculous attacks and is really funny.

    -The Cell saga was boring. The androids are way more interesting than Cell, and the logic behind the Cell Games is really flimsy at best.

    -Goku's feelings on killing people are a crazy shift from Dragon Ball. It starts literally as Z starts where he is hesitant to kill Raditz. Young Goku (seemingly) killed Tao Pai Pai without even thinking about it, and later during the 22nd budokai casually talked about how he 'sent him to hell'. Also refuse to believe nobody died during the raid on the Red Ribbon Army headquarters.

    -I know everyone gets upset about how only Saiyans are able to compete as the show goes further (or really at its start) but the original Dragon Ball was like that too. Goku was evenly matched with everyone he met but began outclassing them almost instantly. The real problem is that the side characters don't just drop off once they become useless. They just hang around as a reminder of how useless they are.

    -Vegeta might be the only character in the history of the show to have any meaningful character development. The Namek saga is made all the better by how unpredictable he is, the Cell Saga really only works because of how obnoxiously proud he is, and him coming to terms with the fact that he can never be as strong as Goku in the Buu saga embodies the entire point that Dragon Ball tried so hard to hammer in - there is always somebody stronger. Edit: Actually Tien had some development as well.

    -The world of the original Dragon Ball had real history, and was much more interesting. The stories about King Piccolo being trapped in a rice cooker by Mutaito give the world a really cool wuxia vibe. In comparison, the history of Buu is much more contrived and doesn't really click for me. If Earth is just one of the lower worlds and the gods didn't even live there, why is it so important to the narrative in the first place? Like, obviously the wizards weren't earthlings. They didn't even look human.

    -And obviously the biggest problem with DBZ was how 'strength' was portrayed. Despite the Freiza saga having characters drone on about how scouters and power levels weren't important... they are literally the only thing that matters in DBZ. Wherein DB the fights had really cool and funny twists and dude whipped out crazy martial arts techniques, in DBZ attacks are virtually indistinguishable. A giant beam is just a giant beam no matter what you call it. In the manga they don't even name the moves since, you know, pew pew. The only truly interesting technique is the Genki Dama, and even then its just another energy attack - only the way you create it is interesting.

    So yeah what do you think about dragon ball
    Last edited by jubeh; 03-01-2014 at 09:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    To further expand on Goku's views on killing, he murdered his own brother within a single episode, but gave Frieza 5 episode's worth of second, third, and forty-fifth chances. Also I vote Goku for world's shittiest father. Also why the fuck didn't they put Korin in the hyperbolic time chamber to grow senzu beans every now and then. Despite all this, though, Dragon Ball Z is literally my favorite thing ever. Loved it as a kid, love it now. It even inspired me to start going to the gym and training hard to be healthier.

  3. #3
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    DBZ was a massive part of my childhood.

    I hate Dragon Ball and GT.

    I still love DBZ, minus a few of the supertarded movies.

    I really don't think too far into the series as a whole.
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  4. #4
    Three Trio Tres Member Taragon's Avatar
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    I think Goku wasn't aware of the graveness of killing or something back in DB, because the cloud still shows that he's "pure of heart".

    -I know everyone gets upset about how only Saiyans are able to compete as the show goes further (or really at its start) but the original Dragon Ball was like that too. Goku was evenly matched with everyone he met but began outclassing them almost instantly. The real problem is that the side characters don't just drop off once they become useless. They just hang around as a reminder of how useless they are.
    But still, by the end of DB, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yamcha, Roshi, etc. are still somewhat useful characters, but in the jump to Z they're all degraded to useless pieces of filler. Piccolo is the only one to be somewhat useful and he rivaled Goku's strength.

    In general DB is just a humorous tale with influences from Journey to the West and it has some really cool and varied characters. Z just became a "Another evil! Need to be even stronger!" And collecting Dragon Balls seemed to just become an excuse for bringing dead characters back.

  5. #5
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    The problem with that idea is the driving force for that tao pai pai mini arc is that Goku is upset that he killed Upa's dad so he clearly understands the value of human life. My real issue is the lack of remorse he shows when he brings it up later at the 22nd budokai. It could have been a smoother arc into Goku understanding why killing is wrong but instead it skips from 1st gear to 5th.

    Also DBZ only drops off after Freiza. The Namek saga is something to behold.

    In DB they keep saying the world is a big place, and to travel a lot so naturally after Goku is the strongest on Earth it's time to travel to other planets... except they end up back on Earth again. That's why I had so many problems with the Cell and Buu sagas. The only reason the Buu saga remotely works is because of Mr Satan.

  6. #6
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    if u dont agree that mr. satan was the one who defeated cell then we have problems

  7. #7
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    I love DBZ when it is being stupid, goofy, and juvenile. What appeals to me about Toriyama as a writer is the fact that, and I say this as a compliment, he is a man with the mental development of a 10 year old. That's part of why I like the dub's handling of Hell - 'Home For Infinite Losers' is so much more appropriate and goofy than Hell.

    I think the problem with the Buu Saga is Buu. The problem isn't that he was too goofy it's that he wasn't goofy enough. Toriyama seemed like he was trying to appeal to fans of DB and DZB alike, but the end result was a mess. Buu was goofy and weird but they played him up as a legit threat and treated his goofy attacks with the nightmarish gravity you'd expect if someone actually got turned into a cookie and eaten. So rather htan coming across fun and goofy, it was tonally schizophrenic. The show didn't seem to have a clear answer on if we should be laughing at Buu, or scared of him. Frieza definitely was the best villain and the show's high point, although if it had ended there we would never get Mr. Satan, so I'm willing to accept what came after.

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  8. #8
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    dragon z ball

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    999 Knights Member AlmanacnamedTime's Avatar
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    Mr Satan is the Hero of Ages. He stopped Buu.
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