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Thread: Seira's art

  1. #21
    Junior Member summers50's Avatar
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    I didn't mention any guidelines because my thoughts on the progression was going to be:
    2d shapes (drawing from photo) ->using diagramatic lines -> drawing shapes from life using what you learned -> guidelines for proportion
    It's skipping things in between that will create bad habits. I pointed out things that were out of proportion, it's to be expected, because drawing from purely seeing shapes would take a long time to master, but if you can get the idea behind it, you'll know.

    And copying someone else's style? I prefer to think of it as influence.

    april-coppini-art.jpgThis is an observational drawing using diagrammatic lines. vertical and horizontal lines are used to line up things that are supposed to be lined up, so you can find proportion. it can be used on photo or real life. It's a method for measuring your shapes.

    Guidelines are a bit of a step up, and I'll be a broken record and say that I'd like for you to understand how you see first, but if you want to get in on it right away, it's up to you, Seira.

  2. #22
    One Thousand Member JJJorgie's Avatar
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    The reason I say to draw from life using guidelines is to find proportions. The anatomy of the piece she drew from is NOT CORRECT, therefore, she'll be teaching herself wrong. Using a graph doesn't help you learn placement except for one particular picture is one particular setting.

    Guidelines are useful for 2D, 3D, or making things up. Plus, they are much quicker and easier than trying to map something out in straight lines.
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  3. #23
    I'm an Adult! Member Seira's Avatar
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    (I can't use my scanner yet, but I probably will be able to post the two other drawings tommorow.)
    Well, I think that while guidelines most definitely are useful(I've tried it a couple of times), right now, I probably need to be able to generally "draw better" (as in being able to draw what I see and having better lines). And, I don't think I'll somehow copy the style of the drawings! I'm not always going to use the works of the same artist...Though, I guess it would be better if I drew with photos instead of drawings? I'm not sure about that.

  4. #24
    One Thousand Member JJJorgie's Avatar
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    Okay, let me simplify this for you. I see this kind of thinking a lot and have thought like this before, too. I started out like you. I saw a drawing I liked, and used it as a ref for poses and characters of my own. But, since I used 2D drawing that other people had drawn and I didn't use guidelines, my characters were wobbly and awkward. Also, because of this, when I went to create and draw my own poses, I couldn't. My figures looked amateur and flat. Why? Because I didn't understand the different parts of the body, their 3d forms, and how it all connected. I REALLY hated using guidelines at first. It seemed like a waste of time, but as I kept at it, I developed my own quick way of drawing a stickman and suddenly, I could piece together bodies and poses.
    I know it might seem a little daunting, or boring, or pointless, or all three, but it's one of the fastest ways of actually improving your drawing. Having a basic figure on the page will even make your lines more confident. You can still be inspired by other people's art, but to improve the fastest (and I mean REALLY all-around improve), try out figure drawing. And, try not to use drawing as refs because even if you don't mean it to, any poor anatomy they've drawn will more than likely transfer to you.
    Last edited by JJJorgie; 02-17-2014 at 06:51 PM.
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  5. #25
    I'm an Adult! Member Seira's Avatar
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    Okay, I see what you mean. And I currently am trying out figure drawing, I think I've mentionned it at some point. Actually, I used to never copy anything at all, because I thought it was useless, but sketching bodies of people in photos should be okay, right? Unless you are talking about having someone in front of you and drawing them?
    But, I think I'll try using guidelines again and maybe eventually posting a drawing using it. I'll still also post the ones I did with copying, though.

  6. #26
    One Thousand Member JJJorgie's Avatar
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    The reason using pictures of real life pictures is great for refs, is because you KNOW they have correct anatomy and aren't twisted into impossible poses
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  7. #27
    Junior Member summers50's Avatar
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    And the point I was trying to get across was learning how to see, not yet how to use guidelines. Understanding how a 2d shape really looks, and then being able to see a 3d shape when drawing from life, and that's when you can more properly use a guideline, is after you have a foundation of the understanding. I'm not telling her to absolutely copy things, I was trying to get her to "get" it, and see using artist's vision. There's a difference between thinking about it and indefinitely trying to copy.

    As for the whole "should I use photos or other drawings", imo, photos and other drawings are a convenience. However, if you understand the concepts I'm trying to bring across, then you'll see how photos distort reality, and how true what you see in real life is, compared to anything you see on a flat surface. I'm telling you to use them because you won't see the specific differences yet.

    When you make the drawings, you're thinking. What are you thinking about? What you're seeing, what's there, what's on your mind. Building foundations here so you can move forward. I wonder what you see from your eyes, I have nystagmus so i see differently, and I draw what I see, just the way you should. As for having to use guidelines, I feel that a person can more effectively use them if they can see in them in a space. Not measuring them by the head's size for each limb,torso, or facial features each time, while looking at the 2d space only. That just limits you to doing frontals and simplest of poses. See in shapes. See in space. It's all about seeing.

    I would say try drawing from life about now. Again, try to see in shapes, "what is the outline of the object in front of me, from my viewpoint, only mine?"
    Also look into doing a negative space drawing, and/or a drawing of a picture upside down. It breaks down what you're really doing.

    All of this is in your mind, try to be a sponge, take in all the opinions and squeeze out the ones that don't work for you.

    If you decide to follow JJJorgie's route and want to jump straight to figure drawing:
    http://realcolorwheel.com/human.htm
    Check out these basic proportions, and keep in mind that although this seems in depth, other artists have different methods of creating their basic structure (ex. using boxes instead of ovals, 7.25 or 9 head proportions, etc.) Check other areas of the forum for vids and other tutorials too.

    It'll be helpful if you have a skeleton at school in health class.

    Don't fret if your figures come out lopsided, keep it and learn from it, because figure drawing is a big beast of a subject, considering we can see and recognize the most minor of errors on a human form.

  8. #28
    TBH, I think we are giving too much info to start her off. When I started out, I didn't look at photos, i didn't do figure drawing, i didn't do any of those upside down, negative space drawings. I got most of my knowledge from books and online tutorials. Then again, everyone learn differently.

    If anything else, ask your self and answer to your self the following, What kind of Artist do you want to become? Is this for long term? as a hobby? for fun? for your future?

    Know what you are after first. Now, after looking at your stuff, since you draw mostly people, and animu characters, my best advice is learning anatomy as mention by JJJ and Summers50. There's no right or wrong way to learn it. Its just what is most efficient for you. JJJ's method was how I learn anatomy, and it work like a charm for me, I have trouble seeing shapes, but like summers50 and many other artist, seeing shapes makes things easier for them.

    Just try out the methods and see what works for you. I personally don't find trying to copy another artist work that bad of an idea, but here's the thing though, and especially from copying Japanese artist, chances are you'll pick up on their mistakes as well, since a lot of them are self taught.

    If you are really considering becoming serious about it, I would suggest pick up an anatomy book by Loomis or Bridgman.

  9. #29
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    trace stuff. seriously, trust me. when i started drawing as a kid i traced stuff all the time. here, sycra yasin has a video on it:


  10. #30
    One Thousand Member AlmanacnamedTime's Avatar
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    I come to suggest doing some basic exercises like the kind in Loomis and Bridgeman. It helps.
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