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Thread: What *IS* Art?

  1. #21
    Queen of the Curve Linz's Avatar
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    One year of Art education and Bacon suddenly thinks himself the next best thinker of our times.

  2. #22
    Three Trio Tres Member Taragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunZet View Post
    Art to me is really anything that shows skill, creativity/ imagination, problem solving, or gets my inspired or makes me go 'that is awesome', or shows a certain beauty that appeals to me.
    Does that also make things like the very first typewriter art?

    Quote Originally Posted by GunZet View Post
    One thing I don't consider art is post-modernism, or contemporary arts, though there are rare exceptions. So even my own personal opinion on what art is is just as flexible as the term itself.
    Although I detest most post-modernism, I can't write it off as not being art.

  3. #23
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taragon View Post
    Does that also make things like the very first typewriter art?
    I personally think you might have a decent case for that. I don't have a whole lot of time, but I've had to read this short book called The Toaster Project which, were you to read it, might help you formulate your own opinion on that. Here's a link to the author's blog on the subject. Also, a TED talk video, if you're still interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linz View Post
    One year of Art education and Bacon suddenly thinks himself the next best thinker of our times.
    You wound me with your harsh words, Linz. I think nothing of the kind--I just really enjoy thinking about it and discussing it now, when before I was just "eh." Amazing professors inspire people and what not, you know?
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  4. #24
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    no

    ur wrong

    amazing professors let me sleep and use my phone in class and dont nag me about crap

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    also bacon this is u

  5. #25
    Senior Member Aether's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon_Barbarian View Post
    Where does that "traditional" definition come from, if I may?
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/traditional
    Synonymous with conventional, customary, and established.

    As for skill, creativity, and imagination, I think Jorgie and others who have commented on the personal aspects have a good point in that sometimes those aspects may not be apparent to anyone but the artist in question.
    That's called having a subjective opinion. Skill is not subjective, it's purely a technical competence.

    I think I primary issue in defining art is that of the medium. People will readily accept that painting, drawing, sculpture, architecture, and the rest of the classic mediums have the potential to house great works of art, but with, let's say, video games or even comics, works with genuine skill, creativity, and imagination get glossed over as being cheap and commercial.
    No. Only cheap and commercial video-games and comics are glossed over as being just that. Because they are.

    Not just that, but as you stated in what I previously quoted, not everyone has the same taste. Some people view video-games and comics as art while others do not, and vice versa. So you literally just said one thing and then turned around and said the complete opposite.

    I honestly think skill level has nothing to do with it, per se.
    Lol, no? Are you for real? Technical competence is a huge factor in anything. That's like me saying, "skill level has nothing to do with fixing computers, like if you just google it for a bit, you're a good tech."

    People recognize Kandinsky as a great painter, but many of his highly acclaimed pieces lack skill in their creation.
    Show me where his skill lacks, please. It is so apparent that he understands colour value and composition. To most people it would seem like just a bunch of lines and shapes, but the fact remains that his work has harmony. All the components work together to create the finished product, his work is very clearly his style. Also, look at his portraits, he's a damn good artist in both creativity and skill.

    Of course, they saw other things, so I suppose Linz' quote should be modified to "skill, creativity, or imagination." Though I'm not sure how one distinguishes between the two.
    No, like art, the ability to create it is dependent on components working together in such a way that you get a finished product that is aesthetically pleasing. Because that's what art is, aesthetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon_Barbarian View Post
    I personally think you might have a decent case for that. I don't have a whole lot of time, but I've had to read this short book called The Toaster Project which, were you to read it, might help you formulate your own opinion on that. Here's a link to the author's blog on the subject. Also, a TED talk video, if you're still interested.
    Semantics. It looks to me like Taragon was being a little bit sarcastic there, correct me if I'm wrong.

    But no, the very first typewriter is not art. It's an invention and technological innovation. Neither are fucking toasters, mate.

    You wound me with your harsh words, Linz. I think nothing of the kind--I just really enjoy thinking about it and discussing it now, when before I was just "eh." Amazing professors inspire people and what not, you know?
    Thus reinforcing her sarcastic point. :\
    i wake up every morning and brush my teeth with rainbows after i piss excellence and wash my face with glory

  6. #26
    Three Trio Tres Member Taragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
    Semantics. It looks to me like Taragon was being a little bit sarcastic there, correct me if I'm wrong.

    But no, the very first typewriter is not art. It's an invention and technological innovation. Neither are fucking toasters, mate.
    I was merely illustrating how hard it is to define art, inventions also show skill, creativity and imagination. What makes an invention not art? If it's the fact that it is made with practical use in mind that would also disqualify architecture.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Aether's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taragon View Post
    I was merely illustrating how hard it is to define art, inventions also show skill, creativity and imagination. What makes an invention not art? If it's the fact that it is made with practical use in mind that would also disqualify architecture.
    Architecture is thought about in a creative aspect. It's more or less if sculpture and interior decorating had a love child.

    An invention is purely for functionality, we find beauty in older things such as typewriters now because we have perspective. We can see what was around then and what we have now and appreciate the mechanics as a sort of art form. However, back then, I would assume that people would view a typewriter as a lot of people view computers now.

    There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Where do we stop saying when things are art and start saying they're just things.
    i wake up every morning and brush my teeth with rainbows after i piss excellence and wash my face with glory

  8. #28
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
    Where do we stop saying when things are art and start saying they're just things.
    When things start to push the envelope and test your definition of what you consider art.
    <My comic
    .................................................. ......................."Mind-controlling you into thinking this is awesome."

  9. #29
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    never
    my poop is art

  10. #30
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
    That's called having a subjective opinion. Skill is not subjective, it's purely a technical competence.
    I suppose I phrased that badly. Skill is not subjective, you are correct. Creativity and imagination however, are.

    No. Only cheap and commercial video-games and comics are glossed over as being just that. Because they are.
    I don't think I know anyone who doesn't play video-games who will stand by the assertion that the medium of video-games is a potentially artistic one. Comics have it slightly better, but even then you have a bunch of hobnockers running around proclaiming works like Watchmen, Maus, or what-have-you aren't comics but are instead "graphic novels" which perpetuates a stupid, elitist air that the authors and illustrators of these so-called graphic novels wouldn't even agree with. Furthermore, who is to say that something commercial can't be a work of art? The Stanley Parable may be an art game, and indeed, it pokes fun at the perceptions of art, but within the medium, one may as well call Super Mario 64 a work of art for making an incredible use of the different aspects of the medium given its constraints.

    Not just that, but as you stated in what I previously quoted, not everyone has the same taste. Some people view video-games and comics as art while others do not, and vice versa. So you literally just said one thing and then turned around and said the complete opposite.
    You misunderstand me. I was talking about the difference in accepting works in a field as artistic, as opposed to accepting whole mediums as potentially artistic. Since the definition of art is so abstract, how can one write off an entire medium? You assert below that art is about aesthetics, would you not find personal issues with someone who dismissed an entire medium at least partially based on being aesthetically pleasing?

    Lol, no? Are you for real? Technical competence is a huge factor in anything. That's like me saying, "skill level has nothing to do with fixing computers, like if you just google it for a bit, you're a good tech.

    Show me where his skill lacks, please. It is so apparent that he understands colour value and composition. To most people it would seem like just a bunch of lines and shapes, but the fact remains that his work has harmony. All the components work together to create the finished product, his work is very clearly his style. Also, look at his portraits, he's a damn good artist in both creativity and skill.
    Once again, you misunderstand me. I will use your defense of Kandinsky to explain. No one hails Kandinksy as some great artist because of his portraiture, they loves his abstract expressionist works like this one. Not knowing the name of the piece, who is to say what is being portrayed. With the name, Impression III, Concert), one can tell what it is, but there is nothing particularly skillful in the the piece. Perhaps it has some nice aesthetic value, but everything in the piece boils down to a simple schema. A child could, in fact, paint it.

    Speaking of, do you know about Marla Olmstead? As a toddler, she was hailed as a prodigy and a master abstract expressionist. That. Is. Ridiculous. She has been tested by multiple expert child therapists, and not a single one has found her to be anything more than a child having fun when watching her paint. (Though some looking at her completed pieces have held contrary positions, they all changed their minds once viewing her process.) Perhaps it isn't fair to have used Kandinsky as my example (though I still think he fits the bill), perhaps I should have used Jackson Pollock. Are his works aesthetically pleasing? To some, yes. Does the execution of his work differ much from Olmstead's? Not really. Is there a difference in the process? Yes. Pollock is thinking about what he is trying to create; there is an intellectual aspect. The same goes for Kandinsky. For while his works may well be replicated by Olmstead, they would lack the same meaningfulness.

    TL;DR: Skill in execution is needed when intelligence in concept is absent.

    No, like art, the ability to create it is dependent on components working together in such a way that you get a finished product that is aesthetically pleasing. Because that's what art is, aesthetics.
    That is your prerogative.

    But no, the very first typewriter is not art. It's an invention and technological innovation. Neither are fucking toasters, mate.
    I urge you to actually follow the links provided and spend some time digging around It is quite interesting. As is, why do you think what Thwaites doing not art? He created all of the pieces required to build a functioning toaster from scratch, much like a bladesmith would have made swords historically. Would you not consider those works of art, or at least the field of smithing a potentially artistic one? If you do, consider that Thwaites essentially smithed himself a toaster for his Master of Arts final project at the Royal College of Art in London.

    Thus reinforcing her sarcastic point. :\
    Now you've confused me. Earlier you said Taragon was being sarcastic, now you attribute that sarcasm to Linz. Not that both can't be sarcastic (though it seems Taragon isn't) but what?
    Last edited by Bacon_Barbarian; 02-18-2014 at 01:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
    You're my favorite.

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