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Thread: What happens when we die?

  1. #21
    Three Trio Tres Member theAnimeRebel's Avatar
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    So you "live on in the hearts of those who knew you."

    Actually, you could say that it's illogical for existence to end completely. Mind and body are seperate entities, it could be said that they are on seperate planes of existence. If that's the case, the mind would be metaphysical, and could essentially continue without an actual physical form to "boot" on. These theories are not scientific, and there are a lot of things out there that could actually exist outside the realm of scientific "proof." Humans aren't computers, in other words.
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  2. #22
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    ur bein fucktarded now the mind and body are not separate. they are literally the same fucking thing.

  3. #23
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylux View Post
    ur bein fucktarded now the mind and body are not separate. they are literally the same fucking thing.
    You need to bring it down a few notches

  4. #24
    Three Trio Tres Member theAnimeRebel's Avatar
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    Mind as in brain, yes. But I was reffering to "Mind" as in that elusive subconciousness the Greeks dubbed "soul," however. I don't believe mind and body are inextricable. Course, I don't believe in a purely naturalistic universe either. So I suppose we're coming from two different perspectives here.
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  5. #25
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    theres no such thing as a soul man i was seriously joking about the afterlife thing. theres no afterlife, theres no mysticism to life or reality. if u stop believing in something and it ceases to exist, its not real. that goes for souls and the lot. when u die u die. nothing happens. u get burned or put in a box and buried/spread/kept in an urn.

  6. #26
    Three Trio Tres Member theAnimeRebel's Avatar
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    That is your belief. Mine is different. Unless you can give me any hard, absolute proof that there is NO soul, I am not inclined to change my mind. And vice-versa. I'm not telling you to change what you believe, but don't call someone an idiot just because their opinion is different.

    That aside, this has gotten a little off-topic.
    "Make sure the room is brightly lit and stay far away from the TV."

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  7. #27
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    the burden of proof does not fall upon me, my friend, it falls upon u.

  8. #28
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theAnimeRebel View Post
    So you "live on in the hearts of those who knew you."

    Actually, you could say that it's illogical for existence to end completely. Mind and body are seperate entities,
    In the same way that the programs running on my computer are distinct from the computer. The mind is software dependent on the hardware of the brain and greater nervous system.
    There is a reason we have no examples of minds existing without bodies, or of minds being restored to function when the body is too damaged. And if the mind and body were wholly separate, how would you account for degenerative neurological diseases that affect the mind?

    it could be said that they are on seperate planes of existence.
    You can't try and save a bad argument by resorting to question begging for a worse one. The only plane of existence that is known to exist is this one.

    If that's the case, the mind would be metaphysical, and could essentially continue without an actual physical form to "boot" on. These theories are not scientific, and there are a lot of things out there that could actually exist outside the realm of scientific "proof." Humans aren't computers, in other words.
    I can make up shit, too, and in fact do. That doesn't mean it's persuasive or something people should take seriously. And I see no reason to believe that the difference between the human brain and a computer is not one of degree rather than kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by theAnimeRebel View Post
    That is your belief. Mine is different. Unless you can give me any hard, absolute proof that there is NO soul, I am not inclined to change my mind. And vice-versa. I'm not telling you to change what you believe, but don't call someone an idiot just because their opinion is different.

    That aside, this has gotten a little off-topic.
    The burden of proof is on people making positive claims - which you are. If you want to believe what you want without offering evidence, then you are being unreasonable, and even more unreasonable to expect that other people act as though this is somehow compelling or persuasive. Logical debate places the burden of proof on the person making the positive claim. There are many reasons why this is not just ideal but literally necessary, none the least of which is that, thanks to special pleading, it's kind of impossible, generally, to provide sufficient negative evidence to totally disprove something.
    But, here, you want some hard proof? In the thousands of years of recorded human history not a single person has produced a single piece of compelling evidence or logical argumentation for the existence of a soul. When in the literal entire course of human history no one has managed to do something, despite their best attempts, it kind of suggests quite strongly that the thing in question is impossible.

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  9. #29
    Three Trio Tres Member theAnimeRebel's Avatar
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    That was what I was about to say, is that it is nearly impossible to prove the negative. Which is why I was wondering why you are all so firmly convinced that there can be no soul. You immediately excuse every possibility, it seems. But that's a judgement right there, I was trying to get an explanation for why you think the way you do.

    Anyway, I am no scientist. Nor am I any manner of debater. It would take me some time to compile any convincing and/or cohesive explanations/proofs. Although technically speaking, we should define "proof" before we go slapping that word around all over the place.

    But, here, you want some hard proof? In the thousands of years of recorded human history not a single person has produced a single piece of compelling evidence or logical argumentation for the existence of a soul. When in the literal entire course of human history no one has managed to do something, despite their best attempts, it kind of suggests quite strongly that the thing in question is impossible.
    This is an issue of perspective, I suppose. There is a lot of "compelling evidence" out there, mostly in regards to quantum physics and psychology. But like I said, I am no scientist. I can't really speak well on those two subjects.

    of minds being restored to function when the body is too damaged. And if the mind and body were wholly separate, how would you account for degenerative neurological diseases that affect the mind?
    Again, I think we're confusing "brain" and "soul" here. If the brain is physical, than soul would be that metaphysical aspect. Scientifically speaking, it isn't improbable to believe that there could be alternate planes of existence. It's actually more unrealistic to be mutually exclusive and submit that only that which we can physically sense exists.

    And how to I account for debilitating plagues of the mind? Well, I don't actually believe that a human is a two part being. I was trying to simplify for the sake of the argument. I believe that a person is a three-part being. Composed of the metaphysical (or "supernatural") "soul," the mind (psyche, personality, etc.) and body. Which would explain how a person can lose their "mind" and yet continue to "exist" as a human.
    "Make sure the room is brightly lit and stay far away from the TV."

    (Also, I'M BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!)

  10. #30
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theAnimeRebel View Post
    That was what I was about to say, is that it is nearly impossible to prove the negative. Which is why I was wondering why you are all so firmly convinced that there can be no soul. You immediately excuse every possibility, it seems. But that's a judgement right there, I was trying to get an explanation for why you think the way you do.
    Because there is literally no evidence supporting it and it would run contrary to everything we know about the universe. What is more likely, that everything we know is wrong and that the thing with no evidence is correct, or that our current framework is more or less right and that the thing with no evidence is untrue.
    The soul is, like god, a prospect with no evidence supporting it, lots of evidence against it, and which - if true - would run contrary to literally everything we know and require that we basically rework our understanding of everything from the ground up.

    Anyway, I am no scientist. Nor am I any manner of debater. It would take me some time to compile any convincing and/or cohesive explanations/proofs. Although technically speaking, we should define "proof" before we go slapping that word around all over the place.
    I just finished up a paper on epistemology and do not have the energy or the will to do so, sorry. Let's just be laymen here and accept that proof is something that a reasonable person would accept as evidence for a claim.

    This is an issue of perspective, I suppose. There is a lot of "compelling evidence" out there, mostly in regards to quantum physics and psychology. But like I said, I am no scientist. I can't really speak well on those two subjects.
    No, no there is not.

    Again, I think we're confusing "brain" and "soul" here. If the brain is physical, than soul would be that metaphysical aspect.
    The existence of metaphysical things is precisely what is being discussed. You are question begging.
    Also if the soul as a metaphysical entity is able to affect and be affected by the brain then it is still clearly subject to physical rules. I forget the exact logical form for the argument, but this has been discussed before extensively in discussions on the problem of free will and attempts to resort to arguments from metaphysics to try and avoid determinism. It didn't work there, it won't work here.

    Scientifically speaking, it isn't improbable to believe that there could be alternate planes of existence.
    Scientifically speaking it is folly to make claims in absence of evidence. It is not impossible that I have an invisible, ethereal, dragon in my house but in absence of evidence for it no sane person is going to accept that claim.
    Anything that is not logically impossible is, strictly speaking, theoretically possible. That doesn't mean it's true, or that reasonable people ought to accept it as true.

    It's actually more unrealistic to be mutually exclusive and submit that only that which we can physically sense exists.
    You are literally arguing that it is unrealistic to say that something which has no observable effects, no evidence in it's support and which cannot be observed or interacted with probably does not exist.

    And how to I account for debilitating plagues of the mind? Well, I don't actually believe that a human is a two part being. I was trying to simplify for the sake of the argument. I believe that a person is a three-part being. Composed of the metaphysical (or "supernatural") "soul," the mind (psyche, personality, etc.) and body. Which would explain how a person can lose their "mind" and yet continue to "exist" as a human.
    Which is even more absurd. Because it's clear the body exists, and there is strong evidence for the existence of mind, but now you are adding a third component. What's the soul do? What evidence have you for it?

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