Thoughts on Suicide

[Black_Shaggie]

Glad folks started to comment on this thread again. Lots of lost souls out there who think this is the only option...feeling as if there's no one for support...feeling useless...full of regrets...chemically unbalanced...indebted to the point where's there's no end...into some serious life ending shit (crime, disease, etc;..) whatever.

Like Clock said, I'd wager that if anybody who's suicidal actually HAD someone truly concerned with they're well being, they'd opt to live. This supporter's job isn't easy though. They'd have to commit to actually being there emotionally for the suicidal person not matter what.

I've never been suicidal, but I've been through some really dark (and long) periods of depression where, had I not had someone to remind me that I am appreciated...and I do matter...and to keep fighting, I may have very well have fragged myself.

[Aether]

Can you really call it a selfish act if its the result of a serious mental illness such as depression? You wouldn't say its selfish of someone to die from a physical illness, so what makes mental illness different?

Yeah, you can. A parent shouldn't have to bury a child. Also, there is medication for depression, if someone honestly suffers from a chemical imbalance, then see a doctor and get a prescription.

Bringing death onto loved ones is a very selfish act, they live the rest of their lives wondering what they could have done to change the outcome and a lot of them blame themselves for the suicide.

[GunZet]

Remember that the person with thoughts of suicide may not have a close family, nor one that cares about them, or- anybody, for that matter, which imo, only promotes the deed that much more.

Though not, always the case.
Too many variables.
Too many variables, need more time.

[Black_Shaggie]

Yeah, you can. A parent shouldn't have to bury a child. Also, there is medication for depression, if someone honestly suffers from a chemical imbalance, then see a doctor and get a prescription.

Bringing death onto loved ones is a very selfish act, they live the rest of their lives wondering what they could have done to change the outcome and a lot of them blame themselves for the suicide.

I get what you're saying here but I disagree.

See, the thing is, those with chemical imbalances sometimes (most often actually) need more than medication that stabilizes their emotions or mood. A person with mental illness...that wants to frag themselves...also needs the genuine support of loved ones. Simply having a psychiatrist write a prescription won't stop those dark thoughts from surfacing.

Even a the help of a therapist or a psychologist can prevent suicide because they become that support group. I do understand that the loss of a loved one through suicide creates thoughts of resentment from those who have lost someone in this way but if they haven't paid attention to the signs, tried to get said loved one help or relied on just medicine to 'fix' the problem then I think it selfish of them for not doing enough to prevent the suicide.

Who's to blame if someone wants to kill themselves & nobody notices (or they ignore) the signs that lead to that end? Is it completely mentally ill or depressed person? I think not. Some of that blame lies with the loved ones for not paying attention. I do agree with some of what GunZet said though. Hard to notice a problem with somebody if they're completely introverted and alone in the world & that's tragic. even the, there are people who could help...a coworker...fellow homeless person...idk. They may not have a close support group, but somebody's there who can pick up the signs.

When I was in the Navy, there was this really fucked up thing that happened with a Chief on my boat. He had recieved a VHS (hey it was the 90s) fromhis wife while we were deployed at sea. In this video, his wife tells dude how pathetic he is & that she wants a divorce. She then proceeds to have a 3 way with some guys. This Chief killed himself while we were underway not soon after. Here's a situation where somebody could've noticed the depression spiraling out of control but did nothing. I even feel like i could've done something, said something to try and let him know that he can get past it.

Of course, a lot of this doesn't apply to those people who commit suicide & don't have any mental illnesses. I think its selfish for a person to say, commit suicide because they can't support their family...or they've been spurned by a lover...or they've committed a crime & rather not face the authorities...or they seek the fame of martyrdom or some such bullshit. That shit is selfish & those people & fry in hell as far as I'm concerned.

[Aether]

I get what you're saying here but I disagree.

See, the thing is, those with chemical imbalances sometimes (most often actually) need more than medication that stabilizes their emotions or mood. A person with mental illness...that wants to frag themselves...also needs the genuine support of loved ones. Simply having a psychiatrist write a prescription won't stop those dark thoughts from surfacing.

Yes, but seeking out medical attention is the first step. I'm not saying medication is the be all and end all solution, I'm more saying that it's something that the person suffering from that severe depression should seek out on their own.

Even a the help of a therapist or a psychologist can prevent suicide because they become that support group.

A doctor will strongly recommend that the person suffering should see a therapist or psychologist.

I do understand that the loss of a loved one through suicide creates thoughts of resentment from those who have lost someone in this way but if they haven't paid attention to the signs, tried to get said loved one help or relied on just medicine to 'fix' the problem then I think it selfish of them for not doing enough to prevent the suicide.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. A lot of people don't know what to do to help those suffering from depression. Pity can lead to spiralling deeper down. Pushing them to seek medical attention can lead them to think that they're somehow abnormal. You don't know how that person will react, you could make it far worse if you force help onto them. The only thing you can really do is say, "hey, I've noticed you've been off lately. Is there something on your mind? I'm happy to listen."
Apart from that, it's in their hands.

Someone suffering from depression will know that there's something not quite right; it's just not in human nature to end your own life, so if you know there's something not right, you go and find help. I'm a firm believer that people who are depressed and don't actively seek out their own help are just using depression as a tool to gain attention, pity, and a plethora of other things they may not be getting. But to actually feed their delusion will make it worse. No, it's never, ever, ever a loved one's fault. Ever.

Who's to blame if someone wants to kill themselves & nobody notices (or they ignore) the signs that lead to that end? Is it completely mentally ill or depressed person? I think not. Some of that blame lies with the loved ones for not paying attention.

As I mentioned before, it's never, ever, ever a loved one's fault. Even partially. Unless they actively push that person further into a depression it's just not their fault.

I do agree with some of what GunZet said though. Hard to notice a problem with somebody if they're completely introverted and alone in the world & that's tragic. even the, there are people who could help...a coworker...fellow homeless person...idk. They may not have a close support group, but somebody's there who can pick up the signs.

We all have our own problems. I'm not going to sit there and watch out for people who may be depressed, they have to do that themselves. I need to take care of myself and those I love first. Personally, I never become friends with any of my co-workers, hell I barely know their first names. Why?
I feel that it's unnecessary. Sure, I will joke with them or talk, I'm not rude. But outside of work, I don't really want to see any of my co-workers. I may change that stance in the future when I begin my proper career of choice, but for now, I don't give two shits about anyone I don't really know.

When I was in the Navy, there was this really fucked up thing that happened with a Chief on my boat. He had recieved a VHS (hey it was the 90s) fromhis wife while we were deployed at sea. In this video, his wife tells dude how pathetic he is & that she wants a divorce. She then proceeds to have a 3 way with some guys. This Chief killed himself while we were underway not soon after. Here's a situation where somebody could've noticed the depression spiraling out of control but did nothing. I even feel like i could've done something, said something to try and let him know that he can get past it.

That's fucked up. But I don't think there's anything you could have done about it apart from saying "forget her man, she's a bitch. when we get off duty, we'll all go out and find you a nice girl."
But apart from that, I don't see what you can do to help. Besides, this is hardly what we're talking about here, our discussion is mainly about chemical imbalances.

Of course, a lot of this doesn't apply to those people who commit suicide & don't have any mental illnesses. I think its selfish for a person to say, commit suicide because they can't support their family...or they've been spurned by a lover...or they've committed a crime & rather not face the authorities...or they seek the fame of martyrdom or some such bullshit. That shit is selfish & those people & fry in hell as far as I'm concerned.

Well yeah, I totally agree with this point here.

[Kodos]

I think blanket discussions of suicide are fundamentally pointless because suicide is a choice where the correctness of the choice really needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Just like homicide, really. Whether or not the killing of a human being - by the individual in question or another - is something of such enormous importance that you really need to carefully examine all the variables and draw conclusions.

I do, however, think suicide is the most basic, and perhaps most important, right of a human. It's arguably the right from which all other rights derive. The right to choose life or not, the right to say 'no' in the most final and ultimate way. It's the fundamental show of ownership over one's body and really I can't imagine any right more basal or fundamental.