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Thread: Negative Body Image

  1. #111
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    So wait, you're telling me that we have a 70 page thread dedicated solely to making insulting generalizations about the largest religious constituency on the planet--that's 2.1 billion people--and that hasn't bothered anyone but calling a person fat based on relatively objective and quantifiable factors is such a social taboo?

    I think MT ethics, for the most part, are pretty Lol-worthy but this kinda takes the cake. "Fat" is super inflammatory but vilifying a third of the planet for mere beliefs is not. I give a slow clap for how ass backwards this whole discussion is.
    First, what Del said. Second, religious beliefs do tell you something about a person's moral beliefs and values, weight does not.
    But, hey, you've never shirked from making childish petty arguments that would be at home more on a playground than in any sort of intellectual debate, so why start now?

    I'm done with this thread though. It's followed the pattern nearly all discussions with you do. You make some absurd, outrageous, position, and then when you get called out on it you spend the next few dozen pages claiming everyone misunderstood you while strawmanning or otherwise deliberately misunderstanding every other poster's argument.

    At the end of the day the simple fact of this thread is this: Cypress Dahlia does not believe he should have to make a sacrifice as tiny as "do not call people fat when they ask not to be called fat" in order to make other people happy.

    I really think that speaks for itself.

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  2. #112
    Queen of the Curve Linz's Avatar
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    I think its time to put the toys away, boys. It's dinner time.

  3. #113
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    Firstly, this is irrelevant to the actual argument and is a form of ad hominem attack...
    You have to be trolling me. 90% of everything you've said in this thread has been an ad hominem attack. Are you being serious right now? And no, it's perfectly relevant to the argument since that thread itself is literally an ad hominem attack, just stretched out over 70 pages. Even if there are no counter-arguments, it keeps going and going in one giant circle jerk of "hey, guess what those idiots are doing now". And hardly is there a post there that doesn't make an offensive judgment or speaks derisively about the subject.

    The point being: so it's socially acceptable to do that in your eyes (openly talking shit about a religion and its constituents under the guise of a 'debate' even if no counter-arguments are made), but it's not socially acceptable call someone "fat" if that is, in fact, what they can be deemed medically and metrically to be?

    Does that not prove my point that maybe "fat" is blown out of proportion, considering the former can be deemed far more judgmental and insulting, yet nobody responds to it nearly as negatively?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    Don't you see that social context is what makes it reactive?
    Actually, no. This thread is proof of the fact that that's false. This thread is a sterile environment with no real social aspect. It exists for the sole purpose of discussing something on a dialectical level. Nobody here is actually being directly called "fat" or insulted in any way. In other words: the social context that you speak of is entirely absent. There is no sensitive fat person here being bullied by me. I'm not creating a thread entitled "[x] member is fat". And even then it wouldn't have the same gravity as walking up to someone in person who is actually fat and going "hey, you're fat".

    And YET this thread STILL managed to explode into a torrent of defensiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    Second, religious beliefs do tell you something about a person's moral beliefs and values, weight does not.
    Which is a moot point since I've repeated over and over again that I am not making any judgments about a person's morals or values when using the term "fat". But you have proven my point. You think it's perfectly acceptable to judge a person's morals and values based on their religion (ie. no objective or quantifiable value), but you do not think it's okay to call someone "fat" even if they are, in fact, overweight?

    So you think it makes more sense to make shaky assumptions about a person's character than state a clear observation?

    Furthermore, didn't I have to hound you about bullying members on this site, to which you responded: "its the internet, stop white knighting? nobody cares". So to see you sit there and say things like "he can't make sacrifices to make others happy" is really hilarious to me because you CLEARLY care about peoples' feelings.

    Besides, I don't have to make the point that I've been misunderstood. You yourself have changed your approach to this argument about 3 times from: "Cypress has an Adonis complex", to "Cypress doesn't want to censor himself because he's dick", to "Cypress hates fat people" despite myself clearly having said this on the first page:

    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    Yep. If a person is fat and happy, that's cool.
    So either you can't read, or you are really grasping at straws to make this into a personal attack in any way you can.
    Last edited by CypressDahlia; 07-01-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  4. #114
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Okay, whatever Cypress. You win. Go ahead and call people fat as much as you like. Truly you are a master of debate. All reasonable people will agree with you that calling people fat to their face is not offensive. Incidentally, do you enjoy long-distance running?

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  5. #115
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    cype, i'm gonna put my opinions down in a few sentences, whether you agree with them or not is your problem. i'm just stating my thoughts, and you can react anyway you choose.


    people have opinions too. your opinion (as far as i can tell) is that you don't think people who are insecure about their weight should expect you to use metaphors and other words to describe their situation, just because the word "fat" makes them feel bad.

    but most others opinions will show that they find the woord "fat" insulting. it doesn't matter what it means to you, as they won't know that. they only know what it means to them. even if you meant no offence, they will still take offence, because they don't know what you meant unless you explain.

    context plays acruicial part in how words are recieved by the speaker and listener.

    evn though you ahve freedom of speech and the right to express your own opinions anyway you choose, so do they.

  6. #116
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    All reasonable people will agree with you that calling people fat to their face is not offensive.
    This has largely to do with everyone here creating some absurd hypothetical where I'm running rabidly around the streets yelling "hey, fatty" at every overweight person I see. Yeah, that's a dick move. But that's not what at all what I'm doing, or intend to do. I don't even know why anyone even assumed that. It's an entirely unrealistic scenario for the most part and doesn't really even happen.

    Though I generally agree with the idea that social context plays a large part in the meaning of words, I believe "fat" is a huge exception and this thread is proof of it. Why? Well let me lay it out like this. According to you, the meaning of a word is the sum of three major factors:

    social context, intent of the speaker, and interpretation of the receiver

    This thread itself has pretty much no social context. The intent of the speaker (myself), has been thoroughly explained to be non-offensive. But here's the kicker. None of that matters. Because you guys have decided to interpret "fat" as offensive anyway, completely ignoring the other two factors. Even if I explain a hundred times what I mean by it, every single rebuttal post has //insisted// that it is an insult, and that I'm using it in an offensive way, completely ignoring the intent of my words. Hell, you even went as far as to suggest that I //hate// fat people. Because that makes sense. And what with the lack of a true societal context (ie. no real setting and no real conversation, just debate), it kind of throws the idea that social context determines the meaning of a word out the window.

    In the end, the word "fat" as pertaining to this thread is being entirely determined by the interpretation of the receiver. You guys don't care how objective I am, you still choose to take offense to it. You guys don't care that I'm not actually calling anyone "fat", it's still somehow offensive. So two out of three major factors are completely nullified by the over-defensiveness of the receiver. The context and intent of the speaker are ignored by how defensive the receiver is.

    Do you see why I said "fat" is needlessly inflammatory?

    And yeah, Rabbits. But what you've also just told me is that I'm also right. See, the general flaw with the 'everyone has an opinion' approach is that it is inherently not dialectical. It denies "truth" as being the ultimate goal of any discussion. When you say everything is subjective, you also essentially make debate useless in nature and, in a sense, relegate opinions to all being neutral and ineffective. If everyone is right, everyone might aswell be wrong. Do you see what I'm saying?
    Last edited by CypressDahlia; 07-02-2012 at 01:25 AM.

  7. #117
    Super Senior Member Mr_Liebe's Avatar
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    As a liscensed fat person, I believe it is socially unacceptable to blurt out so cruelly 'GOD DAMN, YOO FATT'. However, at the same time, if you are offering an honest, sincere opinion on a course of action that a husky person could take to shed pounds, and become healthier, I believe is acceptable. By all means, if you're on the subject of weight with any obese/overweight individuals, advise them on how they could improve the quality of their health, just show a modicum of tact.
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  8. #118
    Devilish Member Inksprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    you guys have decided to interpret "fat" as offensive anyway, completely ignoring the other two factors. Even if I explain a hundred times what I mean by it, every single rebuttal post has //insisted// that it is an insult, and that I'm using it in an offensive way, completely ignoring the intent of my words.
    I, at least, began talking about the word 'fat' in terms of it being insulting because I thought you were asking for an explanation as to why people got upset about discussing weight problems openly. Obviously the answer is because they find it insulting?
    As far as I am concerned you set out to discuss why the word fat is inflammatory and why people get defensive about it. What I was trying to point out (and maybe others were too) was that although you are not trying to use it in an offensive way people generally find it inherently hurtful or insulting to have their weight issues talked about openly, regardless of your intentions.
    When you make a thread asking why people find something offensive there is a good chance everyone posting in that thread will be trying to explain why that thing is offensive, rather than just agreeing with you so I'm not really sure what kind of discussion you were expecting to have take place here.

  9. #119
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inksprout View Post
    When you make a thread asking why people find something offensive there is a good chance everyone posting in that thread will be trying to explain why that thing is offensive...
    No, see, that's fine. I'm talking about all the posts accusing me of having an Adonis complex, hating fat people, having no empathy, policing peoples' bodies. That stuff. Pretty much the entire middle segment of this thread. There is a difference between explaining why something is offensive and assuming that it was intended to be.

  10. #120
    Devilish Member Inksprout's Avatar
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    I think everyone is just struggling to understand why you have such a problem with this particular taboo, there have been plenty of reasons discussed already but you seem to be maintaining that as long as the person is actually fat it should be ok to discuss it. Most people seem to just disagree and have explained why in numerous ways. Your views on weight loss are very black and white and this is probably contributing to the whole 'lack of empathy' thing. While you are not trying to insult overweight people you have certainly been implying that anyone who is unhappy with their bodies but struggling to begin to lose weight is lazy. Maybe that is were all the more unpleasant arguments are arising from?

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