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Thread: Manga tips for a good writer

  1. #11
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Even manga-influece is kinda weird. The thing is that the "manga" doesn't have a defined style, and this has been proved countless of times by different mangakas. The thing is that the line that separate comic and manga is very thin, soo much that the only possible difference is the cultural one of the authors, and even this one can be crossed ones the authors separate their work from the cultural canon.

    Now, this is not subject to kill you or something like that, but we tend to be kinda blunt about this with many new users, because this has been a subject for a long time ago, and most of the new users come from this only mono-vision on the comic industry where they have only been influenced by mangas, without knowing how extensive and deep the whole medium of comic books is.

    My tips are:

    -Set a basic goal or thesis for the story. A thesis is an idea you want to argument through the story and a goal can be provoke in a emotional level to the reader (there are many different goals).

    -Set a main character, only one; there are stories that use more than one character, but if you are a first timer, use only one, it's really hard to place more than one main character in a cohesive story. Also to clarify main character: Harry Potter is the Protagonist, Ron and Hermione are Secondary characters. Secondary characters can be deep and complex, but that doesn't make them protagonists.

    -Set moments that change the story, this can be by using the 12 steps of the hero or sydfield paradigm (use google), to get and idea on how to structure your story in a emotional, narrative and a productive level.

    -Cause and Consequence, never become a mad god who just play with the characters, you just place the setting, the characters are the ones who made mistakes or success, and so, every event on the story must be through cause and consequence.

    -Keep it simple, I know a lot of people want to do this big one epic story that is going to hook the audience forever, but trust me, neither of us have the experience, talent and time for that, so be realistic and keep it simple, do a short story with a meaning, and let those crazy epic adventures for ones you get the experience.
    Last edited by ClockHand; 05-27-2012 at 01:16 AM.

  2. #12
    Junior Member Owithrow's Avatar
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    So I'll need to basicly study Japanese culture first and get out of my general ignorance.
    So heres another question why do books in libraries talk about how to make a manga (ive actually never read to much of those because I cant get to the library without a car)

  3. #13
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owithrow View Post
    So I'll need to basicly study Japanese culture first and get out of my general ignorance.
    So heres another question why do books in libraries talk about how to make a manga (ive actually never read to much of those because I cant get to the library without a car)
    Because kids want to be mangakas, and so they are going to buy those books. It's just that the demand exist, so lets sell them that. To be honest i have some of those books, but only for technical things (drawing volumes and other stuffs), but at the end the old books and old comic books are way better teachers.

  4. #14
    Junior Member Owithrow's Avatar
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    Ok thanks for the advice, sorry for wasting your time with an admittedly ignorant question.

  5. #15
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Just do questions to people on the threads. There are a lot of people who can help you to develop a story and to develop your drawing skills. And I guess you didn't really had to know, that's why you did the question, so it's not something to bash yourself.

  6. #16
    Super Senior Member Demonfyre's Avatar
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    @Owithrow - Don't worry I got shouted at about this subject a couple of months ago too when I started out (albeit on a different forum) :L

    So I'll need to basicly study Japanese culture first and get out of my general ignorance.
    @ClockHand - Out of curiosity what would be the advantages of studying the Japanese culture because although it can occasionally be hard to accept but people not from Japan aren't really going to be able to make '100% authentic manga' but we would end up making a westernized comic based on the manga artform*? Surely it would be worth more studying the western influences if we (hypothetically speaking) were to become comic book artists using a manga influence? (for example Mark Crilley)

    I also just want to clarify that I am no way saying I don't want to or that it has no uses to the contrary I would love to be able to learn about Japanese culture and their language etc because its so interesting I just personally am struggling to think of practical reasons for people from UK/USA other than that Japan is the origins of manga so it would be right to study its culture if that makes sense? Also please excuse my ignorance i'm still trying to understand this whole idea :L

    * Not sure if that is a good way to describe it but couldn't think of any other way :/ If I need to reword please let me know

  7. #17
    Moderator Psy's Avatar
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    The only reason that I can come up with as a good idea to study any other culture is to just learn about it and understand it.
    If you are going to study the Japanese and then make a comic where the setting is in Japan you are going to get called out as a poser so quick. It makes no sense to write about what it's like to be a person from somewhere you aren't from. If I wrote about being a prince from a European country in the present day it'd look ridiculous because it's different to learn about it and to know what it actually is.

    If its for a story where it's all fantasy it'd be ok to have architectural influences and versions of customs and things like that but once you say "they are Japanese people of middle earth" (idk middle earth may be a bad example) its not beleivable anymore.

  8. #18
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    First; fuck this shitty forum, I wrote this extremely long post just to get a "error" message from the forum, and now I have to write everything again.

    Now with my rant clear I'm going to rewrite everything but I'm going to be more blunt and direct, as I don't have the energy or the disposition to write more than what its need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonfyre View Post
    Out of curiosity what would be the advantages of studying the Japanese
    The advantage is knowing and having a reference, but it shouldn't be used to create definitive categories, stereotypes or others, it would be pretentious and dangerous. Just think in how a comic settled on USA writen by a non-usa person would be: everyone would be fat, lazy and reinforce all the stereotypes from good to bads, and obviously it wouldn't be a real mirror from the USA reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonfyre View Post
    occasionally be hard to accept but people not from Japan aren't really going to be able to make '100%; authentic manga' but we would end up making a westernized comic based on the manga artform*?
    Again, the concept of "manga artform" is really wide, most people think in Moe characters while many mangakas have proved, the contrary, that mangas can hold many art forms; even more I can go to the past of mangas, with Osamu Tezuka who had a great influence from Disney comics. And this idea of "manga artform" is just prove of what I said, as an outsider we are just going to pick stereotypical elements and we are just going to make the same thing that I wrote as an example for a outsider from the USA, writing about the USA culture. It would be pretentious and dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonfyre View Post
    Surely it would be worth more studying the western influences if we (hypothetically speaking) were to become comic book artists using a manga influence? (for example Mark Crilley)
    It worth as much for everyone. The history of comic books is very old and extensive, even if you pick Japan as your starting point to the past, you are going to find that their narrative developments are just the effects of the French influence, and the French comics are influenced by the Belgics comics and Latin American comics, and Latin American comics are influenced by Spanish and USA comics, and so on. This is why I don't make the distinction between mangas and comics, because they are the same product developed in a different culture that its being influenced by many others.

    The thing is the misinformation from many western "wanna be mangakas" who have no idea of the real past of the medium (comics), its extensiveness and its depth. Many "kids" thing that Japan is heaven, and they are not interested in their own local comic history, this is bad, not just for now knowing the past, but also because it create a misguided idea of comic books today. This is why I tell people to be comic artist, to take the tools you have close and study the whole genre of comic books, mangas are just a small fraction of a bigger picture.

  9. #19
    Junior Member Owithrow's Avatar
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    Really quickly i would like to say that my story is not based in japan (also i think ive seen animes based in america) or america, theres really no culture from either since it is more futureistic

  10. #20
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    For the manga discussion, I'm not saying its has to be based on japan to be a manga, its a reality, a conception of it that the author has and he does his work from that standing point. Now this problem can be very individualist as it can be applied to every different country comic, so it's not really a concern, but as manga is defined by specific element (which I found very irrelevant at the time of doing comic) it become a problem the saying "I'm going to do a fantasy manga" when you are not from the perspective of the defined category.

    Now, if you want to do a scifi or fantasy or whatever the genre is, it doesn't mater knowing japanese or anything. The only thing that mater is knowing your shit right. Narrative theory, writing theory, structures, etc. That's actually the only thing that mater, whether you are japanese, USA guy or british. And so, any concern you have with that, we can help. And ya it would be better if we help you in that sense, rather that keep this discussion of manga and comic.

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