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Thread: Demon's Critique Collection

  1. #171
    One Thousand Member JJJorgie's Avatar
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    Don't double post, please!

    And so that we can avoid future problems and arguements like this, if a critic seems a little "blunt" in their critiques take it up with them privately or let the artist being critiqued call them out (just a suggestion, not a command )
    Last edited by JJJorgie; 06-17-2012 at 02:44 AM.

  2. #172
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    i already said it was a mistake! ther was an apology at the bottom of the second post. but for everyone who didn't see it I'M SORRY FOR DOUBLE POSTING. IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. CLICKED THE WRONG BUTTON

    all cleared up now.

  3. #173
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenRabbitsAttack View Post
    yes, but that doesn't mean you can't be nice.
    Let’s see how meant I have been. Looking at critique on “male attempt”, I didn’t call him: “fucker”, “twat”, “ass”, or any insult. Did I called him bad, untalented, mediocre or speak of any flaw on skill, execution or intelligence? No apparently I did not. Did everything go straight on problems on the draw? Yes. Did I tell him how to fix it? No. Why not? Because he must find the solution be himself.
    Now on “first girl”: Did I insult him? No. Did I insult his in a personal level? No. Did I point flaws on the draw? Yes. Did I tell him how to solve them? No. Okay, again I think I wasn’t an asshole be any mean.
    But what about the “second girl”: again, didn’t insult him in any level, I pointed the problems and didn’t tell him how to fix them. When I talked about bullshit, I was talking about anime elements and why they are not good for learning artist. Was I an ass to him: no; only to the “genre” or “style” which hold many problems for artists, specially learning ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhenRabbitsAttack View Post
    comment on every single tiny mistake he makes if you want, but don't just be all like 'dude, you fucked this shit up' instead 'dude, you fucked this shit up, here's how you fix it' makes for a more useful critique.
    Yes, give the answer to the problems, what a great technique to teach. When you do a math problem your teachers comes and gave you the solution? When you fail in an answer your teacher gave you the solution? No, and in art is even harder to give a solution as everything is hold on personal decisions. I can’t tell him how to draw foots, as everyone does it differently, as everyone have different styles and aesthetic approach. If I tell him how to do certain things, I’m not going to let him develop in his own style, but rather in mine. So no, I’m not going to give the solution, I’m going to point the problem, give advice about what to read or practice, and is upon him to find the answer to the problems, is upon him to develop himself as an artist.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhenRabbitsAttack View Post
    whatever. it's just posing the same thing in either positive or negative terms. irrelevant
    Apparently is not, again, you are telling me I have been an ass, and I disagree, I have been just straight to the point. I’m not going to tell how to fix problems and neither I’m going to red line stuffs. For you apparently being blunt or straight to the point is a hurt feeling thing, if so, tell me, so I’m going to know to not give you critiques, because you are obviously not ready for people to look at your stuffs and point every single problem on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhenRabbitsAttack View Post
    this is true. but he isn't a extremely experienced artist. though james, if you bother to read this, eye anatomy is something you should look at. i will conceed
    And so, for not being experienced we must treat him like a kid, like someone who is not able to do things by himself. I’m not asking anything from him, I’m not telling him to become a second Alberti or neither to become dog shit. He asked for critiques, I gave critiques and is upon him to solve the problems and practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhenRabbitsAttack View Post
    you can't measure drawings against a standard of perfection, so therefore, every drawing is imperfect. redlining show the artist a different way to do some thing, not nessicarily a better or more perfect way. redlinig for asthetics can be ignored if the viewer chooses so
    Have I measured against a standard of perfection? Have I place the standard where is the perfection, the god-like and in the opposite the dog shit? No I haven’t. What I have done is point design problems from a classicist perspective in human anatomy. Why? Because those concepts are bases to understand human anatomy, not need to apply those in real life at the end, but you need them because to change human anatomy for the sake of design and art, you must know a symmetrical proportionated system and this one works very well. I haven’t talked about lines, shadings or anything else, everything is hold on design, design as a base for human anatomy, which he state he was trying there, so I believe it’s very appropriate for me to point the problem on such subject.
    No, redlines shows an artist how to do things as you do, how to develop problems you have and how to find solutions to problems they must solve by themselves. If anything redlines are for lazy people who are not interested in becoming artist or develop artistic skills but rather for who just want to learn like someone else.

    Again, I’m against aesthetic redlines, this is fatidic, impossible to do and pretentious as most, doing a redline in a aesthetic way, means you are telling the other which are your perceptions of beauty and design, not letting the other to experiment by himself and learn those. Also its almost impossible to cover in its fullness, as aesthetic also weight over colors, composition, weights, lines, etc. There are so many elements involve it become awful. And this doesn’t just make it even harder, but you are mixing in the idea of: “every element on a piece of art are there for the sake of it”, which mean if you tell someone “hey, you should use orange and not green for that part”, you can trample over the idea that the orange was meant to have more than a contrast value, probably a mean on the piece, probably something that made the piece for the artist. We can’t tell to an artist what to do, we can only tell what problems we see and what does this problem might affect. Probably that orange part on the piece might produce a fight of balance on the painting against another element, if so, yes, we must point it as problem, but is upon the artist to solve, not us.

    Now, hope this discussion is over now, because you have your profile as private and I can’t send you PM’s to discuss this any further.

  4. #174
    Super Senior Member Demonfyre's Avatar
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    Wow... Lots to read :O


    @Clock - Thanks for pointing all that out to me quite a lot to work on xD also sorry I shouldn't have labelled them as Anatomy :/, mainly im working on males how I worked on females when I began by constructing bodies and clothing then, should I stop drawing them in 6 head heights and just stick with the normal which is 7/8 I think so that they are anatomically correct?

    Sorry I think I completely used the inccorerect terms which is why all this happened I'll make sure to keep all anatomy sketches naked and stop making them androgynous (iDf that's the right term) from now on an stop using the manga proportions and detail

    If he just want prices, comments on how good he is and good is he going, then why asking for critics in the first place? Again, this is an art forum, which is focused on art critique of any kind and he is even asking for critique in the thread op.
    Yeah thanks for all the critiques not sure where this pricing came from though... Probably my terrible English skills >.>

    @Mereana - Thanks as well for your feedback I think all of this happened because I used an incorrect term describing it as something it is not :/ got a lot to fix xD

    Clock does speak the truth though, he critiqued them as I labelled them which is my fault using the incorrect terminology :/ I'll try to fix them up as much as possible and repost the fixes tonight

    @JJ - Darn, did it again >.> thanks for pointing that out to me :L I need to stop falling for that mistake xD

    @Toast - Realism... I'll look into that
    Last edited by Demonfyre; 06-17-2012 at 09:25 PM.

  5. #175
    Zeta Members ram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post

    Now, hope this discussion is over now, because you have your profile as private and I can’t send you PM’s to discuss this any further.
    or you will make me a messenger again >_>

    @Demonfyre, I've seen a lot of people who got lost at realism as well, if anything you should look into realism when it comes to anatomy but there are lot of manga/anime styles that are too different in realism when it comes to face, what I just mean is the face like clannad and kanon where the too big eye types that makes the check and muscles of the face does no longer apply in the world of physics.

    while the realism style's basic shape is polygon, the basic shape of manga/anime style is complete globe

    and not only that but also the emotion of realism and the emotion of manga/anime style.

    Either way I still see you have a lot way to go, from the correct face alignment to correct express of emotion to clothing physics to muscles and shadowing.

  6. #176
    Super Senior Member Demonfyre's Avatar
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    @Ram - Thanks for the post, So it's not worth me trying to learn realism? Urgh so much stuff :/ I dont know where to begin or even where to get the information necessary for progression

    Edit: Is it even worth my time continuing with manga? Should Instop now and learn anatomy and stuff before continuing? :s
    Last edited by Demonfyre; 06-17-2012 at 09:57 AM.

  7. #177
    Zeta Members ram's Avatar
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    Well I'm fucked up as well when I tried to study realism and didn't know if it did help me or not, I don't know if it's worthless that I know this and this... anyway go start with posemaniacs.com

  8. #178
    Super Senior Member Demonfyre's Avatar
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    Ah now that's a site I'm familiar with i'll go do that now then! And I have found some charts so hopefully I will get the correct proportions this time xD


    New Plan:

    Male and Female Anatomy Study (Extended) - Posemaniacs
    Male and Female Manga Proportions Naked - Posemaniacs
    Manga Eye Study - Mangas
    Hand Study - References and Stock
    Hair Study - References and Stock
    Occasional Cloth Studies - References and Stock


    I think as far as fan arts and stuff go they will be back bench projects until I've fixed anatoy once and for all (albeit it will take ages) or else I'm just gonna mess up over and over again >.>
    Last edited by Demonfyre; 06-17-2012 at 10:08 AM.

  9. #179
    One Thousand Member JJJorgie's Avatar
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    Don't be discouraged at all! I was a lot worse at manga when I started out! Be glad you have these critiques and mix them on the next picture, don't let them hender your wanting to draw a certain style! The critiques are just helping you, not telling you that you "suck" at anything or that you should quit. They're just saying that you should slow down and take a step back before you get too ahead of yourself and your skills.
    Last edited by JJJorgie; 06-17-2012 at 10:40 AM.

  10. #180
    Super Senior Member Demonfyre's Avatar
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    Yeah your right Thanks for that, time to get back up and draw again
    Last edited by Demonfyre; 06-17-2012 at 12:51 PM.

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