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Thread: MMO's. Your own decrepid and degenerate opinions on what you think of these

  1. #21
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubeh View Post
    No are you being for real
    pretty much. Our most popular games right now are milking the multiplayer thing. Almost none of them are //about// the single player.

    Yes and there are games that are also very good design wise and have or had large communities also. So how does this help your point?
    By showing that there are exceptions to the rule. A successful game is not always good. My initial point was that devs should focus on "good", not "successful", when designing a game. Trying to make money is hugely limiting to creativity and innovation, and probably strikes down so many good ideas that never see the light of day. I'm p. sure the makers of SotC were not necessarily in it for massive sales. It's far from a crowd pleaser. If I wasn't an art buff I'd probably think it was 70% boring.

    I dont think this is a response to anything I said and I dont disagree
    It was in response to Tiberius.

  2. #22
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    pretty much. Our most popular games right now are milking the multiplayer thing. None of them are //about// the single player.
    You didn't say most, you said every game.

    By showing that there are exceptions to the rule. A successful game is not always good. My initial point was that devs should focus on "good", not "successful", when designing a game. Trying to make money is hugely limiting to creativity and innovation, and probably strikes down so many good ideas that never see the light of day. I'm p. sure the makers of SotC were not necessarily in it for massive sales. It's far from a crowd pleaser. If I wasn't an art buff I'd probably think it was 70% boring.
    Yeah but weren't we talking about MMOs. The more I think about it the more the line between a bad game and a good MMO blur. It seems to me that what most people consider to be good MMOs would be incredibly bad games otherwise.

    But let me get back to my original point here which got lost in your musings. An MMORPG has to be successful in order to bother existing by its very nature. This assumes the game is actually designed with the word massively in mind, because otherwise why bother making it an mmo in the first place.

    Also this is somewhat off topic but relevant. I hate the idea that companies trying to make money is considered a bad thing by entitled customers. Its just such a weird stigma that makes no sense when you think about it for even a minute. I used to have a friend that would constantly say, "They're just doing that to make money!" Yes! Yes they are as such is the point of their existence.

  3. #23
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    I'm not saying a company trying to make money is bad. I'm saying a company trying to make money at the sacrifice of new ideas is bad. But yeah.

    So you're saying MMOs need to be massively successful, but not necessarily good, right. Because the distinction is too vague. We're saying the same thing, in concept. We're just on different sides of the fence. I think games should be good regardless.

  4. #24
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    I'm not saying a company trying to make money is bad. I'm saying a company trying to make money at the sacrifice of new ideas is bad. But yeah.
    You didn't say it but its implied in the way people talk about the game industry lately.

    So you're saying MMOs need to be massively successful, but not necessarily good, right. Because the distinction is too vague. We're saying the same thing, in concept. We're just on different sides of the fence. I think games should be good regardless.
    The problem with MMOs is that they are a collection of shitty decisions that are held together by the players. A board game example might be the Battlestar Galactica board game. It's kind of annoyingly designed but it works in a lot of social groups because of what I guess you could call unwritten or unspoken rules.

    Its completely possible for a shitty game to be enjoyed by simply adding more people to it. Monopoly is an awful, awful game but Americans still consider it the go-to board game whenever somebody brings up the topic. MMOs have to rely on this fact because due to technological limits, a game cannot be stretched across an infinite amount of time and still remain fundamentally good without emergent gameplay.

    But even then on the complete flip side of your typical action bar MMO is Second Life, which is hardly a game at all. You might think you could find a good game withing the vast void between both sides, but even if you did you have to wonder if anyone plays it, if it has an exploitative cash shop, if its laggy or even if the community is friendly or not.

    I think as of right now, technologically, you can't really have a good MMO by normal design standards. Just games that MMO players consider better than what they are currently playing.

  5. #25
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    I guess. It's kinda scary that the entire genre is justified by the fact that people play it...

  6. #26
    One Thousand Member indescribable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubeh View Post
    Monopoly is an awful, awful game
    I like Monopoly. :(

    Sometimes.

  7. #27
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    I guess. It's kinda scary that the entire genre is justified by the fact that people play it...
    Its not too odd. Remember the game you used to play on the playground as a kid to pass the time. Awful games. Just awful.

  8. #28
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    my standards as a kid were pretty low.

  9. #29
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Idk even when I was little I knew duck duck goose was bullshit

  10. #30
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubeh View Post
    Idk even when I was little I knew duck duck goose was bullshit
    Let me guess; you were always the goose?

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