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Thread: Money is the most important thing in the world

  1. #51
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylux View Post
    Why don't you try to make yourself useful and help people instead of trying to hurt them.
    You're just trolling now; you must know that I'm not a rapist murderer drug dealer irl. But we're off-topic.

    And Sylux that holds true for everything that's controlled by computers nowadays. It would take one variable to be altered in my bank's database tables for me to be £10,000 richer. In doing so, I'd be defrauding the bank of... absolutely nothing, and it's difficult to see who, exactly, I'd be hurting by creating such a relatively small amount of currency out of thin air (also, banks do it with fractional-reserve loans; hot damn the financial sector is sizzling with potential fraud convictions). That's the meaning of 'information age'.

    To a lesser extent it's also true of any physical product that's available in sufficient abundance. Rice, for example. Steal a big bag of rice that cost 1.5p to produce from Wal-Mart and it's difficult to see who loses out. Wal-Mart accounts for shoplifting in its budgets, no doubt, and I feed myself for a day or two in lieu of other food. If I were starving, would you arrest me for doing that?
    Last edited by Delphinus; 01-03-2012 at 06:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  2. #52
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    No, but stealing frivolous things is wrong. There's a difference between rice and an Xbox 360.

  3. #53
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Why? Do you believe that stealing an Xbox 360 from Gamestop would damage Microsoft's profits? Or Gamestop's? Employees are all paid by the hour; they won't be harmed. Head office earn far too much for the price of a single console to matter to them. It harms nobody.

    Theft from individuals is different, but I daresay that the worst you cause someone by robbing their console is emotional distress. If it's someone you don't know or care about, then emotional distress? Really? Do you care if your failure to donate to charity causes distress to the starving homeless man who would have been not-starving if you'd donated that money? His plight is far worse than the plight of the person you stole the Xbox of. And yet you don't call for non-donators to charity to be locked up.

    On the other hand, I imagine most people care about themselves. And a shiny new Xbox 360 is going to make me happier, innit? So, in summation: a person you care about (yourself) becomes happier at the expense of a person you don't care about (the victim) becoming less happy. Hell, by buying goods made in sweatshops you're causing worse problems for people you don't care about.

    The real reason theft is looked down on is because it threatens consumer culture, thus first-world capitalism as a whole. If some people can get what they want without doing it through socially-accepted routes, why shouldn't everyone? It's just society punishing people for valuing themselves over an abstract concept. Very collectivist, innit.
    Last edited by Delphinus; 01-03-2012 at 07:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  4. #54
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    I also pirate. But I don't consider it "not bad" or not stealing. I consider myself a pirate, a thief and am full willing to accept any consequences for it. Not even trying to rationalize it at all. I stole skyrim, too.

  5. #55
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    Why? Do you believe that stealing an Xbox 360 from Gamestop would damage Microsoft's profits? Or Gamestop's? Employees are all paid by the hour; they won't be harmed. Head office earn far too much for the price of a single console to matter to them. It harms nobody.

    Theft from individuals is different, but I daresay that the worst you cause someone by robbing their console is emotional distress. If it's someone you don't know or care about, then emotional distress? Really? Do you care if your failure to donate to charity causes distress to the starving homeless man who would have been not-starving if you'd donated that money? His plight is far worse than the plight of the person you stole the Xbox of. And yet you don't call for non-donators to charity to be locked up.

    On the other hand, I imagine most people care about themselves. And a shiny new Xbox 360 is going to make me happier, innit? So, in summation: a person you care about (yourself) becomes happier at the expense of a person you don't care about (the victim) becoming less happy. Hell, by buying goods made in sweatshops you're causing worse problems to people you don't care about.

    The real reason theft is looked down on is because it threatens consumer culture, thus first-world capitalism as a whole. If some people can get what they want without doing it through socially-accepted routes, why shouldn't everyone? It's just society punishing people for valuing themselves over an abstract concept. Very collectivist, innit.
    You're making everything too complicated. Some things can be clean and cut, and the line between stealing out of necessity and out of desire are completely different. One is wrong, and the other is not. Let's see if you can guess which is which.

  6. #56
    Devilish Member Inksprout's Avatar
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    Delph: I'm basing the idea that its morally wrong solely on that I wouldn't want someone else to steal from me. I think its just common decency to avoid blatantly stealing from people when its just frivolous, so I agree with sylux there. I would hope that if someone was starving there was someone they could turn to for help, but I don't think I would make a moral protest against someone stealing to survive.

    Also Sylux, you're wrong about piracy not being an issue. Your attitude towards it is one where you're probably not hurting the industry but there are people out there who don't think of it like that at all. Its simply I can get this for free so why would I pay for it? There are people who have the money but just don't want to spend it and people who choose to live with very little money and still try to use their poverty as an excuse to not buy games. The problem is that even people like us who are trying not to damage the industry still encourage piracy and others who just don't want to pay for games. Aside from anything else if you take a game without paying for it you're stealing the company's profit. Sure if you like the game you'll buy it. If you don't then you just got to play the whole thing for free anyway, which you would otherwise have had to buy to experience. I don't really see why everyone thinks piracy is some how a 'grey' area.

  7. #57
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    Did I not make my point? You're not denying them a sale, especially not if it isn't physical, especially if you can't even afford a gameboy game anyway. It's as if you'd never even heard of it. Do I have to use italics AND bold? Piracy is not stealing - stop listening to the ads. Besides, someone somewhere made the purchase originally. I'm a game developer myself, and I would be rightfully honored if my game were popular and important enough to make it on TPB or with Skidrow.

  8. #58
    Devilish Member Inksprout's Avatar
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    I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong, I'm just saying that that is not true of everyone who pirates games.

  9. #59
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inksprout View Post
    Delph: I'm basing the idea that its morally wrong solely on that I wouldn't want someone else to steal from me.
    Boo hoo it would upset me it must be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylux
    You're making everything too complicated. Some things can be clean and cut, and the line between stealing out of necessity and out of desire are completely different. One is wrong, and the other is not. Let's see if you can guess which is which.
    IT IS WRONG. NO SUBSTANTIATION REQUIRED FROM ME IT JUST IS WRONG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  10. #60
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    I understand, yeah there are people just like my father, but it can be a grey area, certainly for kids who can't get jobs because they've never been previously employed. I'm just saying you can't outright say it's wrong, really, because many people pirate to decide whether or not to buy a a game. Oh, five more examples of myself, I also purchased Dragon Age: Origins, Amnesia, and the Penumbra Collection as a result of my approval of the games because of my extensive piracy. I haven't even replayed Dragon Age since I bought it, but I still bought it. (But I do have Dragon Age II illegally and will never buy it because I hate it and can't even finish it.)

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