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Thread: Race Education and Why it Fails

  1. #61
    Fenn
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    Clock, I don't hear "Where are you from" as "what is your ethnicity" either. I don't think most people do. My point was it was a case of miscommunication, and if he WAS trying to claim he's as Dutch as someone from Holland, he's making a silly mistake. I don't know how common it is. But most people in the States equate ethnicity with anscestry rather than culture.

    And US Americans don't have a unified culture to fall back on, because just about everyone came here with their own traditions and customs. So if ethnicity is defined by culture rather than heritage, my ethnic food is McDonalds and my ethnic music is US Pop. That sucks.

  2. #62
    Ying Yang Member Peteman's Avatar
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    Culture is more complicated than that. Given that the US is rather big with lots of diverse people there will still be culturely based ways of seeing things unique to the US, deeper than Mc Donalds and pop music.

  3. #63
    Lucky Member Blue_Dragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon_Barbarian View Post
    Alright, we cool then.

    @Blue Dragon: Even if using American as the word for USA is wrong as far as nationality goes (which it is), it's still technically correct. :?
    Well yeah, it's technically correct. But I was saying, because most people *ahem ahem* get picky when you're asked this question, one should probably just say "North America" or "USA" so you don't get accused of excluding Mexico and Canada. That's all I was saying. Most likely, if asked, I'd say "American," but know that I wasn't referring to the specific America (South, Central, or North) I was from, nor the country. To honest, though you'd think it'd be obviously if you're hearing the person, since we have accents (but uh...I guess some people from Wisconsin might sound Canadian...since they're so close.)

    Edit:

    I don't think he literally meant just McDonald's and Pop. It's a joke :P (right?)

    Oh! Speaking of culture, this is a great thing that, since we're on the subject, shows some of our culture. You might check it out (it's more diverse than just Pop music :P)

    Last edited by Blue_Dragon; 11-10-2011 at 11:33 PM.
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  4. #64
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Clock, I don't hear "Where are you from" as "what is your ethnicity" either. I don't think most people do. My point was it was a case of miscommunication, and if he WAS trying to claim he's as Dutch as someone from Holland, he's making a silly mistake. I don't know how common it is. But most people in the States equate ethnicity with anscestry rather than culture.

    And US Americans don't have a unified culture to fall back on, because just about everyone came here with their own traditions and customs. So if ethnicity is defined by culture rather than heritage, my ethnic food is McDonalds and my ethnic music is US Pop. That sucks.
    No your ethnic food is corn and your ethnic music is pipe flute tunes

  5. #65
    Super Senior Member Celestial-Fox's Avatar
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    Or, Lolaskans have the native food of whale blubber and drummed storytelling music.

    I think that might be part of the problem--the US is too big to have a unified culture. Since it came and was all imperialist in everyone's faces not all at once, states like Alaska and Hawaii are extremely culturally detached. . . . That, and their locations don't help either.



    Oh, and Fenn, sociologically:
    Race = social construction of a group of people more or less unified by phenotype and/or genetic ancestry. This is generally imposed by other people (what you look like or are categorized by the government as).
    Ethnicity = social construction of someone's culture; nationality tends to fall into this category. The individual self-identifies their ethnicity, unlike race, which is usually imposed.

    So, racially I am black (though I am half-white, too--there is a massive amount of erasure in racial categorization); ethnically I am white States-American. It's a weird thought because I look like I'm black/Mexican/Polynesian/whatever the heck else people have tried to peg me as, but my white ethnicity is just a lifestyle, also affected by my chosen dialect (for instance, I don't understand and cannot speak in AAVE). You're right, though; there's a problem in arguing these things because very few people are educated in the differences between the two and use them interchangeably.

    (Woo, I just wrote an exam paper for university on that--racial vs ethnic identities in Eurasian Britons.)
    Last edited by Celestial-Fox; 11-13-2011 at 07:16 AM.

  6. #66
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
    You're right, though; there's a problem in arguing these things because very few people are educated in the differences between the two and use them interchangeably.
    Exactly. And not talking about it at all isn't going to improve that any time soon.

  7. #67
    Devilish Member Black_Shaggie's Avatar
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    Yes! (@Celestial_Fox & Cype)

    I've been watching & waiting for folks to stop arguing about the 'shocking' question that Cypress had posed & honestly discuss a way of improving the lack of knowledge about race in general. Of course we're all different. This is obvious & apparent as the nose on any of our faces. The only thing that we as humans share is that very thing: our humanity. I believe that that thing (humanity) is the ability to potentially overcome any adversity that may stand in our way for success &, in this we're potentially the same. But that's not important to what I have to say on this subject of why race education fails.

    I used to use phrases like, "We're ll the same..." or "people given the same opportunity..." even "Race X in Country Y has national or ethnic identity...blah...blah."

    But I was misinformed. It's not a racist thing to acknowledge the differences among your fellow man or woman, nor is wrong to hold the diverse family of humanity to what they (personally) may be capable or incapable of. What I think happens...& this is wrong...is the generalizations based off of what one thinks of another race, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, religion, sexual orientation...or whatever. One 'bad apple' doesn't spoil the bunch. I feel that people need to be educated to think in a way that teaches them not to judge an entire (I may be using the wrong word here...) demographic, but judge each human individually for their strengths and or weaknesses.

    This way the people won't get upset if a black man (let's call him Norm) of average intelligence but above average strength is chosen to perform a labor heavy task while an white man (we'll call him Tyrone) of above average intelligence is chosen for a more problem solving sort of task. Why because they'll know that Norm wasn't passed over for the 'brainy' job because of skin color. It was because Norm personally wasn't as smart as Tyrone.

    That's all I have to say & I'm sorry if I'm repeating what someone else has.
    Last edited by Black_Shaggie; 11-16-2011 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #68
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    Uh I've never met a white guy named Tyrone
    Last edited by Sylux; 11-16-2011 at 04:47 PM.

  9. #69
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    They exist.

  10. #70
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    I don't think I will will ever meet a white guy named Tyrone, just like I don't think I will ever meet a black guy named Johann, it's just one of those names

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