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Thread: Race Education and Why it Fails

  1. #21
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Well, when you consider that success is an amalgamation of various material demands, I would argue that a paraplegic who lives in a nice nursing home and is perfectly cared for is more successful than a fully capable man who is jobless and homeless. But that's a different discussion altogether.

  2. #22
    Ying Yang Member Peteman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    And yes, Peteman, that is a good point, but understand that race, culture and genetics go hand-in-hand based on one primary factor: geography. So even if we try to disassociate race from the other two, chances are you can make generalizations about someone's culture based on their race and be right maybe greater than half the time. So race is rather relevant to the issue.
    So the culture of black people in america and africa must be the same then?

    Edit: I've re-read your first post and I see a little flaw in your statement. Your saying people should be more understanding of other people. But could you understand people who refuse understand other people, without regarding them in a negative light?
    Last edited by Peteman; 11-08-2011 at 08:22 PM.

  3. #23
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    @Cypress

    Granted. But 'success' being relative falls outside the scope of the argument as to whether people are equal. It's a necessary assumption - if we're to say anything meaningful - that it is possible for people to be unequal, and an objective measure of success is necessary for that.

    Though I'm not sure if you're quite pushing the relativist viewpoint with your previous post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  4. #24
    Devilish Member Inksprout's Avatar
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    For me the message 'We're all the same' end up being, 'I can learn to understand/empathise with everyone else in the world'. Essentially to me it's obvious that everyone is different and faces their own challenges and issues. However I think that there is enough common ground, and our minds all work similarly enough that most people should be able to understand most other people given enough time and the desire to do so. I guess there would be acceptions to this in cases where people are very mentally ill and (mentally)disabled, but I think that a measure of understanding can still exist even with those whose minds work differently to our own. After all we all need the same basic things to survive.

    I want to point out that understanding or empathising with someone does not mean you have to agree with them or not see their actions in a negative light. Its simply saying, I have gone to the trouble of understanding how you came to be at the point that you are, and I can say that myself or others could likely feel the same as you, had we been in your position. Obviously if someone is doing something most would consider wrong, or something just plain horrible you are still going to see it negatively and want to stop them and you should.
    However understanding why someone else would act a certain way can go a long way to helping dissuade them acting that way.

    We used to throw everyone who was 'insane' into the equivalent of a prison and leave them there. Today however we understand that mental illness can happen to just about any one for any reason and that there are many different types. Like Cyp said, we can't just say everyone is the same and then not know how to deal with those who are different, history as shown us how much suffering that attitude can bring. For those its not already obvious to the actual message should be 'We are capable of understanding one another' rather than 'we are all the same'.

  5. #25
    Ying Yang Member Peteman's Avatar
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    Sorry this isn't really adding anything but; well said Inksprout. Your words hold much wisdom.

  6. #26
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inksprout View Post
    We used to throw everyone who was 'insane' into the equivalent of a prison and leave them there.
    Live them there? Are you crazy? (I'm going to throw you there). Those places were the perfect description of hell, every person in there was tortured, were used as experiments and they lived in their own shit. Just as seeing the architecture of those places you know it was worst than living as a animal, specially after you saw the instruments of torture the "professionals" used in there.

  7. #27
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    Live them there? Are you crazy? (I'm going to throw you there). Those places were the perfect description of hell, every person in there was tortured, were used as experiments and they lived in their own shit. Just as seeing the architecture of those places you know it was worst than living as a animal, specially after you saw the instruments of torture the "professionals" used in there.
    I don't think he was promoting it, Clock. You're right though, it was horrendous.

  8. #28
    Devilish Member Inksprout's Avatar
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    Yeah I was trying to say that that was a BAD thing that happened, because people didn't try to understand others who were different. I'm not saying we should do that, I'm using it as an example from the past.

  9. #29
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peteman View Post
    So the culture of black people in america and africa must be the same then?

    Edit: I've re-read your first post and I see a little flaw in your statement. Your saying people should be more understanding of other people. But could you understand people who refuse understand other people, without regarding them in a negative light?
    No, because America and Africa are two different geographies. Beyond that, America is kind of a tough call because it is the only country that has no true cultural origin. It's a country populated entirely by global immigrants that has just barely retained its Puritan roots. Whereas places like Central and South America, though also born from conquest, have maintained relative racial and cultural monotony since the days of their conception. So yeah, America is like one big exception to that rule.

    About your second point: my idea is not to agree with everyone around you. My idea is to not hide from differences in race, age, gender, sex, orientation and opinion. Rather, to acknowledge these differences and either 1.) learn to cope with them or 2.) confront them in a meaningful way. Basically, "let's talk about it" as opposed to "let's imagine it away". If we continue to fear citing differences between people, our misunderstandings of one another recede into various closet "isms" that become a part of our infrastructural and cultural institutions. Because we're taught to approach people as if they're the same, the understanding of their differences is never sought so these differences register as nothing but irrational aberrations from ourselves.

    And no, Delphinus. I actually tried to define success in a more practical way. I think an agreeable definition for someone who is successful, at least in economic terms, is someone who can maintain an average level of material comfort. For example, a home, food, clothes, money, medicine, transportation and entertainment. Though it may not be 'startling success', I think most of us imagine success in life as being able to afford at least these things.

  10. #30
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    We do NOT have equal potential.
    We do at the initial (and I mean initial) moment of conception.

    A person born with no legs is not going to become a professional athlete. It's a tragic truth, but a truth nonetheless.
    This is actually a very poor example. Said person could very well be a swimmer. Also, paralympics. They're still professional athletes.

    Which begs the question of what you mean by "equal potential"
    Yeah ... I mean everyone is capable as anyone else of accomplishing something worthwhile. Now, you may have to get very generalized, but it works. Your legless child example. He may never play Pro-Football, but he can still a Pro-Athlete. This of course also has to do with my whole "initial moment" thing. Living up to your potential, that's another matter.
    Last edited by Bacon_Barbarian; 11-09-2011 at 12:52 AM.
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