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Thread: Race Education and Why it Fails

  1. #201
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    Yeaaaaa, UK and the US aren't really much better. That's just how everyone views it, but racial hate, sexual hate, religious hate, they're all very alive in the UK and US. Although from what I've heard, the UK is more accepting.

  2. #202
    Ying Yang Member spidergoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    That's ridiculous. Physical race is one of the most superficial traits of people, and culture and opinions about people are quite shallow too. To be honest, the only thing that seems to matter is personality. People of totally different cultures and races can get along just fine, so long as they like each other as people. And arguing that 'different race werent meant to live with each other' is untestable. How can you defend that? "Weren't meant to" is a moral statement. Justify segregation to me morally.



    Wow. I don't know what to say. "Don't try to change a country, move elsewhere"? Really? How do you think that's going to work in the long term?
    I'd like to know the same. In addition to where that sort of thought leaves people who identify themselves as multiple races (leave out the fact that a majority of the world is mixed whether they want to believe it or not). I mean look at the diversity of Mexico, that is a mix of the native population such as the Aztecs with the caucasian Spaniards and the Africans who were originally brought over as slaves/servents. You can have someone with blond hair and blue eyes, someone with tan skin and straight dark hair, and someone who is darker skinned with curly hair and they all identify themselves as the ethnically "Latino/a or Hispanic" and the "Mexican" nationality. Where would these different people go?

    I suppose that comment really offended me, I'm half African American and half Turkish so where would I go? Knowing I'm a little bit of Puerto Rican and most likely have a American caucasian side too. Or are people like me some sort of abomination because different "races" (however you think that is defined) were never meant to live together to begin with.

    I think being accepting of everyone regardless of ethnic differences and religious belief would be ideal, I'm not an idealist and would never believe the world would come to such a conclusion. However judgement on someone should be based on the type of person they are not about something as superficial as "race" that can't even be clearly defined.

  3. #203
    Fenn
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    Segregation and discrimination aren't just wrong they're simply illogical. You're denying yourself potential friends, potential allies, potential supporters, etc. Being inclusive opens up new avenues for social interaction, and as anyone in the job market will tell you connections mean everything. Even outside of employment, respecting other's races and ethnicities has positive consequences.

    When it comes to industries, racial discrimination should theoretically be a disadvantage: the valuable employees of a discriminated race will be passed up by bigoted companies, and picked up by the accepting ones, giving them an advantage. The only trouble comes when there is a "monopoly' or near-monopoly of discrimination, where all or the majority of corporations in a field are all prejudiced, leaving minority employees with no where to prove themselves, and perpetuating the discrimination. That's why it's important to be active in ending racial discrimination: enough businesses become accepting, and the monopoly is broken, basically forcing companies to hire by talent rather than race.

  4. #204
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Segregation and discrimination aren't just wrong they're simply illogical.
    Actually is the most common behavior about societies. Doesn't matter the culture but segregation and discrimination have been always used as a mechanism of preservation (for power, relationships or economy). Just saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    You're denying yourself potential friends, potential allies, potential supporters, etc.
    I agree, but lets remember than any society or ethnic group is very conservative about the way they live and new individuals, or changes, provoke a immediate discrimination. This is because the group is always trying to preserve it self and they see new individuals as possible threats, than possible allies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    When it comes to industries, racial discrimination should theoretically be a disadvantage: the valuable employees of a discriminated race will be passed up by bigoted companies, and picked up by the accepting ones, giving them an advantage.
    I agree, but it's not easy. What companies and industries need are homogeneous individuals because having different ethnics inside a industry will mean different "holy days", which is equal to different days of work. Its hard for a company to accept everyone, if at the end everyone is changing the plans of the company. Also you need to think in how hard is to reach a different culture in a market, its a big waste of money and many companies would prefer not to try those bold moves. Just watch Maruvel in Japan.

    I agree about discrimination being the a slowdown for our "progress" (social and economic), but we need to remember that the behavior is part of the society (ours or from others) and to fight it you need to fight the reality of that society, which is harder and it can lead to ethical discussions.

    I was thinking in doing a analogy between USA society with Brazil society. Both are very different and I though maybe the problem could come from fear, USA is known for spread fear through their medias, and so maybe discrimination could be enforced by fear, while in Brazil society live in less fear (thing that is funny because of the fabelas) and so the discrimination is less. But it would be hard, I would need to do field study in both places -.- and is better than people do the analogy themselves with their own experience.

    PD: Just pointing that discrimination is not that irrational. It is bad, but not irrational.
    Last edited by ClockHand; 01-03-2012 at 12:22 PM.

  5. #205
    Devilish Member Black_Shaggie's Avatar
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    I will agree that cultural & ethinc groups do tend to 'discriminate' against others & have been doing so for a very long time. Nationalities & religious groups also discriminate against ideals different than their own. I think all the xenophobia stems from a fear of the unknown. I mean to say, if you're familiar & used to a certain order to things, & a new variable or pattern emerges, you may be hesitant to proceed with that new thing in your routine. And, at the very least, it'll slow you down before you try get rid of it (discrimination) or used to it.

    But is this really a racial/social/cultural/national issue? Or is it merely a bunch of individuals finding a sense safety & belonging in the confines of certain group structures? Take gang culture, for lack of a better example. More often than not, gangs recruit through intimidation but they also actively recruit misguided youth without a sense of social belonging to the national structure or even a strong connection to their racial culture &, with time within a gang's culture they're taught to discriminate against other gangs on not only the basis of territory or resources but over wars that had been waged long before they became involved into that culture. The more fanatical would attack an enemy gang member on site just because of a color. In the end, the youth (or new gang member) has been conditioned into believe in values that we would all consider wrong here but, the bias that the gang member had would be just as tangible as some actual races or cultures who discriminate against others.

    I think most of the racism discrimination in the world today exists because of old disagreements & arguments between groups which have somehow become part of the traditions of one or more of the groups.

  6. #206
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    I know, those are funny, but its actually interesting, some of those weren't intended to discriminate, some could be out of place, and others could be just the reaffirmation of stereotypes.

    But which is really a racist moment on tv? Is the host of a show doing a stereotypical analogy? or is a person saying stuffs without looking the weight of his words? Or finally the guy who is just an old crazy racist.

  7. #207
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    I really want to know the context of what Hillary was saying. And that last one.
    My AA thread - Updated 06/28/14

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
    You're my favorite.

  8. #208
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    PD: Just pointing that discrimination is not that irrational. It is bad, but not irrational.
    Completely agree. I didn't quote the whoe thing because, in a nutshell, this was your argument, and I agree. And like you said, this doesn't change the fact that it's bad. If I did what was natural all the time I'd be in big trouble by now.

  9. #209
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    I don't know if this is funny or disturbing, but apparently every person I know hate jews. Weird, isn't? Well this discovery follows the logic that "discrimination is not irrational" because every person I asked about "why do you hate jews?" gave me a answer, a reason -don't arguing if is a bad or good, but it is a reason-. Apparently most people I know have been screwed by someone who was/is jew; a boss that doesn't want to pay the retirement of a employ, a lover who want to take all the money from the other person (when they weren't marry and he didn't brought any in come to the house) or people who ask for money and never gave it back. And I know all those are personal experiences, not all jews are bad or better said "jews are not evil", but its kinda problematic when the whole community re-affirm this bad impresions.

    The Israely Stadium formed by the jew community in here, it have a very heavy security, they check you entirely and they don't allow you to move freely in the Stadium. It might be because we aren't used to high security, like the highest security we deal is a guard telling us "open your backpack please" and we usually answer "by law: only with a police present you can ask to someone to open his bag or backpack", and the security person shut up and you are free to go, so I will give this high security a pass. But still contrasting with the Palestinian Stadium, it makes people think that something is odd (the Palestinian Stadium have a policy of open doors to every visitant).

    Other example is how high people of the same stadium (israely) use guards for their own protection, which is kinda crazy because almost no one in here use guards, not even drug dealers.

    And finally the most global example on how a community shatter its reputation: Israel. Its hard to not hate someone who is in some way related to this awful nation.

    So, I know, discrimination is bad. But I think we are facing a different type of discrimination here, one that is not anymore of the color of skin or the history of a group of people, but rather of what these communities or group of peoples are showing their actions to us.

    And almost as my final thing. One of the biggest problems is that jews have their own schools, the first of step of discrimination is to come and discriminate yourself to others.

    I don't know how I feel about this, I have jew friends and even they hate jews.

  10. #210
    Fenn
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    Sorry, could you just explain briefly what a stadium is, so I can understand the situation? I have a good idea what you mean, but when I hear stadium in the U.S. I think sports, not ethnicities.

    This is an issue though: when stereotypes prove true more than not. Psychologically, stereotypes do serve a purpose as a heuristic that helps us use past information in present situations. In my experience, the majority of those from Asian cultures I have met are good at math. So naturally I assume when I meet a new Asian student, they are good at math.

    The key is knowing when it is and isn't beneficial to use these stereotypes.

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