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Thread: Race Education and Why it Fails

  1. #111
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Diversity is weird. I live in a suburb, and my High School has approximately 400 people in it. Approximately 390 of the students are white. And one of the things that really bug me is the racism of the students. Very few of them actually know somebody who is truly different then them, and as such, they are very ignorant. Which is a shame. The non-whites at the school are treated the same as everybody else, by both the faculty and the students ... But, the student body is filled with stereotypes. They also use the n-word a lot, and white people saying that word bugs the ever living shit out of me.

    And now, supposedly, our suburban school system is being integrated with the big-city school system to promote diversity. Which is silly. Yeah, it isn't good that my school is nearly completely white, but it's a good school. The school-board of the city is just trying to dump poor performing students on us, both black, white, asian, and purple polka-dotted, so that their system looks better and ours looks worse.
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  2. #112
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon_Barbarian View Post
    They also use the n-word a lot, and white people saying that word bugs the ever living shit out of me.
    I don't understand why the word
    SPOILER! :
    "nigger"
    bugs you. Is just a word with a bad connotation, but again, is just a word and as any word it can change the connotation and denotation with time. Obviously if you ban people from use it (and so they can change the meaning) you are just prolonging its bad use and meaning.

    Again for my those words mean nothing, sweatback, sandnigger, cracker(?), are just words and It might be because I'm not part of this kind of education about race or this part of the USA's culture, but for me those mean nothing.

    Giving a word such power and keeping it as a taboo will just make things worst.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Dragon View Post
    I'm not saying all minorities are poor, but those who are living in a ghetto (which the very name implies poverty in today's language) are often times going to run down schools that don't have proper funding. As a result, their schools can't afford special programs or sometimes even updated text books (my books in 6th grade said "someday man will land on the moon," and I was just going to school in a small town.) A student in a middle to upper class school is going to get more special programs that motivate them to learn and enjoy education more than a student going to a school which cannot afford to provide these programs. Middle to upper class students tend to have a lower drop-out rate than a student going to a poor school, which is where the whole problem begins with even needing affirmative action: students going to the poorer schools, who more often than not tend to be minorities, don't have as fair of a chance from the get go as a student going to a school with more funds.

    *A caveat*
    This is true for anyone who's poor, not just minorities. So improving education in these poorer schools is going to help people of varying ethnicity, not just "blacks" or "latinos" or however one is going to stereotype the poor. It's just a good idea to help our kids have a better chance at finding a decent job. And I realize there are plenty of "white" students who fall into the same rut in crappy schools. My school was crappy, too (though, even so, it was in far better condition than many of the schools in Springfield. And the tornado wiping out the grade school helped a lot with rebuilding the system. We're actually getting a bit of "diversity" in what was once a very racist, near sundown town. That's a side note.)

    But as for Springfield, IL, I have noticed that the middle class students tend to go to the better school and are more likely to find a good/decent career, than those going to the schools in poorer areas (like South East High) often drop out, or don't have a chance to go on to college.

    Edit: sorry if my sentence structure is a bit tedious. I'm going on like 3 hours of sleep and probably make no sense. I know I'm wordy, and I need to try to cut back on that. Also, I want to say, I'm not trying to stereotype, so if I am, that was not intentional.
    This is completely naive. I agree that education is a big factor to work, but you are over simplifying things. The big problem is the culture around the low social economic class, which in his extreme is attached to violence in almost unfix-able way. When you deal with a problem that is attached to the opportunities a social economic class have to find jobs and to have opportunities, is way more complex than just education. As we know in higher social economic classes names, last names and knowing people are the best way to have a opportunity of a job, while for middle social economic classes they take hard work, creativity and other tools to find a job, I'm not saying one is more hard worker than other, I'm saying that they open their opportunities in different ways. The big problem with low social economic classes is that they have nothing, you can give them education, but as most of these kids grew in unstable homes, and in its extreme, in violent homes the education becomes a source of bigger stress and less important factor for the kids. Even more in aggressive homes (or spaces), the kids start to learn the language of violence and the appropriation of territory which lead to more violence. I remember a kid who live in the lowest social economical class in here, he had 5 and he was asked about what he wishes to become in his future, he answer: I want to be a soccer player or a drug dealer. The answer reflect his culture and way of life, they see both as the only possible ways to success, and if you can achieve one you do the other. Even if to those kids you gave education the sad reality is that you can't change the fact that those are his goals and that he live in a crappy place and no one cares about him.

    The big problem of "giving equal opportunities to the different social classes" is complex and dynamic, and can only elaborate bitter answers, even worst machiavellics and aggressive.


    If you think education can solve everything, I will ask you to go to a fabela. In Brasil the fabelas are the spaces of the low social economic class, and its reign by kids (between 12 to 18 years old, no one of these live longer) with guns, machine guns and drugs. Education can't do anything against power (the illusion of it) and money.


    *The word is in a spoiler; after a long deliberation with Jubeh (my assessor for the use of this USA taboo words, who is not happy with my using it) we got to the conclusion to put it in a spoiler (with no changes) and see how people react. Still all this prove as evidence the weight of the word and how silly it is.

  3. #113
    Lucky Member Blue_Dragon's Avatar
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    Well, it's a good thing I never once said education was the fix all. In fact, I said " if they really want to give a leg up to minorities, then our government should actually work harder on improving our education systems and schools (especially in poor areas.)"

    I also didn't say it was the only problem the poor/poor minorities had. But knowledge can help to empower people to a degree. I stress, "to a degree." If a student who lives in a violent situation is educated and shown there are other ways to solve a problem or dispute, or even to survive, there is a chance they may diverge from a violent life-style.

    Anyhow, again, I never said "education is the only answer." That would be putting words into my statement, wouldn't it But, education, as you agree, is just a one major player in a larger, more complex problem. I know there's a lot more to it that. I don't speak in absolutes, because to do so is folly.
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  4. #114
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Dragon View Post
    I also didn't say it was the only problem the poor/poor minorities had. But knowledge can help to empower people to a degree. I stress, "to a degree." If a student who lives in a violent situation is educated and shown there are other ways to solve a problem or dispute, or even to survive, there is a chance they may diverge from a violent life-style.
    Yeah, no point in putting words in your mouth (or paragraph), but this is my point. Even if you show a chance, reality shows him something different, and this is why I see education as something worthless if you can't change their reality.

    I wasn't saying that education is not the way or that you shouldn't dramatize it. My point is that education is worthless without other changes in the life of the person.

  5. #115
    Lucky Member Blue_Dragon's Avatar
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    That's true, I can agree with that. You can know everything there is to know about farming, but if you're in the city and have no farmland and no means of obtaining it, or getting a job related, it's not going to help you. (maybe not a good example, but it's what I can think of right now.)
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  6. #116
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Give a man a fish and he could eat a day.
    Teach a man to fish and he will eat every day.

    But if there is no place to fish, everything you taught him was useless.

    The same work with jobs.

  7. #117
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockHand View Post
    I don't understand why the word
    SPOILER! :
    "nigger"
    bugs you. Is just a word with a bad connotation, but again, is just a word and as any word it can change the connotation and denotation with time. Obviously if you ban people from use it (and so they can change the meaning) you are just prolonging its bad use and meaning.
    There's a nice long story that spans generations on why people hate that word. Now the modern evolution of it is more accepted among many races, I have no idea why, as it just drops the 'er' at the end.
    So nigga please, best check yo shit.

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  8. #118
    Super Senior Member Celestial-Fox's Avatar
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    Um, Clock, your nonexistent problem with that word stems from the fact that it's never been used to oppress you.

    Let's just say when I started first grade at five years old there was a group of people that wouldn't play with me on the playground because I was black.

    Let's just say just this year on vacation in Florida a different group of people tried to pull that word on me as some horrifically bigoted punchline and I had to leave the area and go back into the hotel.

    You've no jurisdiction over whether the word is okay or not to use because, a) it will never affect you, and; b) there's a conflict of cultural understanding.
    Last edited by Celestial-Fox; 11-18-2011 at 04:22 AM.

  9. #119
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    They are discriminating on the basis of ethnicity. AKA racist, or prejudice, or whatever the technical term is. Even if it doesn't have to do with a specific race, as you explained the "coincidence," it's still using the superficial attribute of ethnicity to make the decision.
    Yes, but the fundamental concept behind racism and diversity are different. Racism is done in spite of a specific race, whereas this kind of coddling of minorities is done in favor of them. So the reason they did this is not because they hate Asians or something, but because they particularly value lower class minorities. You see how that's different, right? It's not a hateful thing, but rather the double-edge of an overzealous thing.

    So it's a lot more complicated than saying "it's racist, and it has to stop" because there is definitely an achievement gap between races that can't be remedied with topical solutions. Yet "fixing" things like poverty, thug mentality, gangs and such is a goal that might never be realized. Poverty, in a bottomless capitalist society, will always exist and the others are so inextricably woven in inner city culture that, without either direct censorship or reeducation, there is no way to cut those ties.

    So how do we promote the success of youth stuck in the quagmire of inner city life without robbing others'? The goal is to make diversity self-evident. By that, I mean have a country in which all races are represented equally in school admissions, business ownership, etc. based on merit alone. But we might never get there due to how deeply ingrown the core issues are. So it's a dilemma.

  10. #120
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    Give and take, that's basically what it boils down to. Or maybe I should say sacrifice and receive or something *shrugs*

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