Super Senior Member
I'm p. sure Hamachi is talking about things like the Salvation Army and Peace Corps, not like...reforming global governments. Though uprooting dictators is not necessarily a bad thing. And, when you uproot one, you kinda have to establish SOMETHING in their place otherwise it leaves the subject country in a blank-slate condition, which is just an invitation for anarchy and invasion. So it's a vicious cycle of sorts.
There is a lot of hypocrisy out there, though. The OWS is largely a public obstruction. I have spoken to a handful of OWS protestors regarding how they justify interfering with the lives of people who //are// working and trying hard, even in this economy, to support themselves and their families. One of them wrote it off as a mere "inconvenience" and called it "silly". So, basically they complain about the inconvenience of not having (good) jobs (which they obviously abandoned to come out and protest for weeks at a time) but brush off the inconveniences they create for the working people that they claim to represent. I share the sentiments of this construction worker. The corporatist system is full of assholes, OWS is full of obstructive faux revolutionaries and the innocent people on the sidelines are getting kicked in the nads. Maybe just swept over by the flames of 'revolution'?
Also, this. Hahaha. What the hell.
Last edited by CypressDahlia; 10-27-2011 at 11:31 AM.
I agree that taking money from the rich won't solve the problem, but like you said, the outsourcing of cheaper labor is what's a the heart of this. I hate that I'm taking up two jobs when someone else could have on of those. And the people making the decisions to outsource are part of that "1%." The government needs to either 1) make out-sourcing in such a way illegal (never will happen) 2) make out-sourcing unprofitable or 3) find a way to make new jobs. Option 1 and 3 aren't going to work. Big Business and their constituents will never allow the illegality of outsourcing (and if that outsourcing was paid fairly and followed environmental standards, it would be marginally acceptable or at least better than it is now.) The government also is sucking at helping the production of new jobs. Roosevelt had his Rangers and the Civilian Conservation Corps. What is our current government giving us? (Not blaming any one person in gov. I just think more needs to be done.) Making out-sourcing unprofitable is the only thing that will keep jobs like that here. And unlike the GOP, who wants less taxation and relaxed environmental standards, lower wages and whatnot to keep the jobs here, I think they need to have higher import taxes on goods made by American companies in foreign countries. Or regulate it so that our companies must have the same standards and pay in foreign countries as they would here. Or something along those lines. We need some way of keeping some of these jobs here, because not everyone is qualified for college (it's just not something everyone can or wants to do) and having to flood the market with all these graduates is doing what Cyp you were talking about in your first re-buttle. I'm too lazy to quote right now. Sorry.
I also agree that these protesters aren't very mature. But then, our generation isn't very mature. What do you expect from the "me" generation? Harrison thought things were bad in the 60s (I, Me Mine)--it's worse now. I hate the whole "instant gratification" of this age. I'm not talking about wanting a job now and all that, I mean the ignorant materialism that runs rampant (I'm not blameless, but it doesn't mean I'm not disgusted with it, in myself as well.)
I did like that Pete Seeger's come out Come on! Rainbow Race! But as much as they don't want a "leader" they really need one. It reminds me of that West Wing episode. They need some guidance and some real focus. And I agree, they should be more courteous and understanding to those who are trying to get to work.
At any rate, they really need to be more professional, and try their best to respect others at the same time. How can they be taken serious if they're not respectful of others? But we do need to be protesting. We just need to get the focus right.
I like that they are finally moving, but they need to get serious and handle it more professionally.
On the loan thing, I know that my loans have changed without my permission and are not as the original document was. The lenders have the power to change things when they want, but I have no power to fight it--or no money anyhow to take it to court. Luckily, I've been able to get a deferment, but it's just a temporary fix. And no, I didn't waste my money on drinking and partying. I used it for tuition, and housing, books, living costs. I didn't spend frivolously. I knew I'd have to pay it back, but hey! I thought I was going to have a decent job when I got done! Some people may waste their loan money as Cyp suggests, but not all of us did. I didn't even binge drink until I was like 23, and then I didn't waste a lot of money on it (never did it often.) One thing that might help is if college didn't cost so much. We wouldn't have to borrow our lives away if we had free or cheaper higher education. Or if costs were at least reigned in.
By the way, on that note, I was so mad when UIS (University of Illinois at Springfield) built this ridiculous new fitness/sports complex, and then raised our tuition to pay for it. It wasn't built until I was graduated, yet I still paid for it. And a lot of people stupidly supported it! Voted for it! And we didn't even get to enjoy it! (oh, wait, we were allowed one free year there--how much did we spend of it again? How many of those people weren't even in the state anymore to enjoy it?) What a wanton waste of our funds--that money could have gone to more important things, like ACADEMICS. Hm...college? Who's there to study!? We're here to work out, hang out, and party! And that the school contributed to this mentality pisses me off. I voted it down. But my point is, some of had to use our loans for stupid shit like this. (I hate my generation. Really, I do.) But it wouldn't be an issue if we had a better chance of good employment to pay it off. I might not care if I had the money to pay for my loans.
And I agree with Delph on a country needing to take care of its own first. I'm pretty liberal, and I think we should try to help others when we can. But right now our own country is falling to the way side, and we're wasting waaaay too much money on countries who don't even want us there. Or countries like Pakistan, who help support our "enemies" but get pissed when we stop giving them funds. I don't know enough about the specifics to say who's wrong or right in the situation, but I can say that money could go towards developments and programs to help our own people. Don't get me started on the war(s) (though I guess we're going to be pulling out soon? Too little to late.) America gets so preoccupied with trying to ensure its interests outside the country, that it looses sight of who it was supposed to be doing it for--the people. And I sympathize with helping others out. But if you can't keep your own country in order, how are you going to help others?
Super Senior Member
I think we both agree that a lot of our woes are brought upon by our peers. And, though we may not be as irresponsible as the rest of them, it's quite impossible to distinguish yourself from the crowd. People see us as a generation or, at best, an age demographic. We can't just go out there and be like "no, no, you got it wrong I'm not like the rest of them". We all just gotta take the fall as gracefully as possible. And most colleges (well, at least the ones you want to go to) are private institutes so it's not really like we can lobby them into lowering their tuition.
But yeah, I'm all about fighting for the "good crop" of people out there, it's just that they're impossible to distinguish from the bad crop who perpetuate our debt and want forgiveness just as well.