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Thread: Psalm 14: Who was Jesus' grandpa?

  1. #81
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    Kodos I do not see how a person whom is consider a God or God can be evil. Instilling morals into people that cause an overal general of good cannot mean the creator is evil. Yes he may not respond to you but he may respond to some, he works in the mist it's unseeing to the natrual eye. Also about the hiearchy of who made whom and if God was created by another can be proven. Their always has to be an end and a person on the top, with your theory that he's evil he might like it up there. I don't see how you think God can be evil or non-existant living your whole life to see nothing but black as a purpose seems rather stupid.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamdrank View Post
    Kodos I do not see how a person whom is consider a God or God can be evil. Instilling morals into people that cause an overal general of good cannot mean the creator is evil. Yes he may not respond to you but he may respond to some, he works in the mist it's unseeing to the natrual eye. Also about the hiearchy of who made whom and if God was created by another can be proven. Their always has to be an end and a person on the top, with your theory that he's evil he might like it up there. I don't see how you think God can be evil or non-existant living your whole life to see nothing but black as a purpose seems rather stupid.
    Read the last 8 pages over again (at least Kodos' posts). He answered most of your arguments already.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Read the last 8 pages over again (at least Kodos' posts). He answered most of your arguments already.
    Can I get a direct response from him instead? Read only the first page. His view and your view may be different.

  4. #84
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamdrank View Post
    Kodos I do not see how a person whom is consider a God or God can be evil.
    Suppose I am standing on a street corner, waiting for the light change so I can cross safely. Suppose I notice a small child wandering past me and into oncoming traffic. I can easily reach out and stop the child, and if I do not do so I know - for the sake of argument - with absolute certainty she will be struck by a car and killed. I can save her life at no cost to myself, but I choose not to. Would you call me anything less than evil? God is omnipotent and omniscient and ergo everything in the universe that happens happens only with his direct and implicit approval. God had the means and the knowledge to stop the holocaust, and yet he chose not to. When someone has the means and knowledge to prevent something from happening and yet it happens, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the person in question desired that thing to happen.

    Furthermore, God specifically endorses sexism, slavery, homophobia, racism, and more. I struggle to think of an evil action which is not condoned somewhere within the pages of the Bible.

    Instilling morals into people that cause an overal general of good cannot mean the creator is evil.
    What morals has God instilled? The only reason the Church no longer burns witches is because liberals have dragged them kicking and screaming out of that phase. When people talk about religion as a force of good in the world they are talking about extreme minorities of religious practitioners. By and large religious groups have always held true to the ancient, evil, dogmas and resisted every change.

    Yes he may not respond to you but he may respond to some, he works in the mist it's unseeing to the natrual eye.
    This is a logical fallacy known as an appeal to ignorance. Don't do this.

    Also about the hiearchy of who made whom and if God was created by another can be proven.
    See above.

    Their always has to be an end and a person on the top, with your theory that he's evil he might like it up there.
    I can't even parse this. And if you are saying there always has to be a hierarchy, that's bullshit. This may come as a shock to you, but people are capable of having egalitarian relationships.

    I don't see how you think God can be evil or non-existant living your whole life to see nothing but black as a purpose seems rather stupid.
    Where did I ever say that there is no purpose or meaning to anything? Please do not make things up.

    Also if a man's wife dies his life may lose meaning and he may despair. Does this mean that his wife must not be dead? Even if your silly argument was true, it still would not mean God exists. Maybe the world's just a miserable, awful, place. Just because something being true would have very unpleasant implications does not mean it is not true. I'd bring up the fact that death is terrifying and unpleasant but still very real as an example of this, but clearly you are a theist and thus you don't even believe in death, so I'm afraid I can't think of a good analogy beyond the dead wife one, trite as it is.

    And please read the OP. A lot of your 'arguments' are addressed in it.

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  5. #85
    One Thousand Member butternut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamdrank View Post
    Can I get a direct response from him instead? Read only the first page. His view and your view may be different.
    If you've read the first page, one of the rules was clearly read at least last 3 pages before posting something. The reason for this is to prevent recurring arguments and repeating posts. This discussion has been happening for days now. The reason Fenn replied that for you was because he has been following the discussion throughout and thinks the answers are there. You could have at least done the courtesy of actually checking..

  6. #86
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    Looks like things dealing with enigmas you completely dismissed Kodos, isn't that why people have faith in the first place?

  7. #87
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    What are you trying to say? There is no enigma, first of all, and second of all faith is just a polite way of saying "insane unjustifiable beliefs."

    There is no fundamental difference between a belief in God, a belief in Sagan's dragon, and the belief of a schizophrenic man that he is Napoleon. And see the OP. If you can argue something from faith, then I can dismiss it the same. You get what you put in. If you are going to make an argument without evidence to back it up, I will dismiss it with the same amount of evidence.

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  8. #88
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    Why can't I post here?

  9. #89
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    I'll gonna make this real quick 'cause I'm rushed for time. I'll move on from the "is there a God?" debate for a moment and try to state what I think I've been trying to say.

    Okay. You have seen the ultimate evil that religion can cause. You've listed examples too. But to say that the good results of religion is an extreme minority is, in my limited experience, an incorrect observation. Almost all the Christians I know participate in food drives, or they meet with the elderly in nursing homes, or they traveled to help in Haiti; I could go on and on. I know these actions happened, because I have heard them speak, seen photos of the work they did--it wasn't some big plot to steal money or enslave others. Do some of them believe in hell? Yes, but they don't realize the impoications of this like you have explained; they simply see it as a form of justice, the idea of "good triumphs over evil." They pray, sure--how does that hurt anyone? Essentially, none of them harbor evil, even if the religion and organization they claim to follow does. In fact, many of them detest the actions of the Church. You can label them true Christians or false Christians, but in the end they believe wholeheartedly in love over hate.

  10. #90
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    I'll gonna make this real quick 'cause I'm rushed for time. I'll move on from the "is there a God?" debate for a moment and try to state what I think I've been trying to say.

    Okay. You have seen the ultimate evil that religion can cause. You've listed examples too. But to say that the good results of religion is an extreme minority is, in my limited experience, an incorrect observation. Almost all the Christians I know participate in food drives, or they meet with the elderly in nursing homes, or they traveled to help in Haiti; I could go on and on. I know these actions happened, because I have heard them speak, seen photos of the work they did--it wasn't some big plot to steal money or enslave others. Do some of them believe in hell? Yes, but they don't realize the impoications of this like you have explained; they simply see it as a form of justice, the idea of "good triumphs over evil." They pray, sure--how does that hurt anyone? Essentially, none of them harbor evil, even if the religion and organization they claim to follow does. In fact, many of them detest the actions of the Church. You can label them true Christians or false Christians, but in the end they believe wholeheartedly in love over hate.

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