# Thread: Psalm 14: Who was Jesus' grandpa?

1. Except I'm pretty positive the greek deities were mostly (if not completely) made up by the upperclass of greek society in order to control the lower class (poor/uneducated). I'm 90% positive that that was talked about in my Greek Thought and Lit class... not completely sure though so...

2. What do you win and how did you win it. Also I am sleepy and that link is long, summary please.

3. That link is stupid and makes no sense.

Apparently God created the universe outside of all time. By the nature of time, nothing can change or happen outside of it, therefore God couldn't have created the universe externally to it unless He was defying logic.

Things which defy logic tend not to be true. 1+1 does not equal 3.

EDIT: It's not answers, it's Christian circular reasoning. Arguments with Christians:

4. We are going to prove that 3 = 0. Assume the following equation for a complex x:

x^2+x+1=0,

Then:

x^2=-x-1,

Divide by x (x ≠ 0 because x = 0 does not satisfy the original equation)

x=-1-1/x ,

Substituting the last expression for x in the original equation we get:

x^2+(x)+1=0

x^2+(-1-1/x)+1=0

x^2+(-1/x)=0

x^2=1/x

x^3=1

x=1

Substituting x = 1 in the original equation yields:

1^2+1+1=0
3=0

1. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it
2. I know this isn't a maths thread, but logic isn't always logical. Jussayin'

5. ^ You divided by zero. That's not a valid mathematical operation, don't even bother trying to use it to disprove logic.

6. I'm pretty bad at maths, so I won't even try to analyze that, but really I think you are confusing the definition of logic with conventional wisdom... Science is an unfinished business that constantly changes and mutates under new ideas, meaning that even answers which seem illogical (or, against conventional wisdom) are infact given logic by a special factor or condition. That equation is no different, it just applies a different type of logic than conventional wisdom would suggest.

Anyway. The real stickler is, if you believe in both God and logic (with God using those 'special conditions' I noted above), you kind of have to except that God actively wants bad things to happen to good people, otherwise he could just stop those things from happening in a jiffy... Which is why cornered Christians tend to completely deny that the concept of logic exists at all.

7. Don't worry, I was using proof by intimidation. But you are right. :P

Originally Posted by Regantor
God actively wants bad things to happen to good people, otherwise he could just stop those things from happening in a jiffy...
However, is that not then going back on your original idea, as that is against our conventional wisdom but a different logic applies. It's like if you had someone fall in a tank of man eating fish, and obviously that's a bad thing. Until someone applies a different logic to suggest
a) it's nature
b) it's not bad for the fish, what makes us so special
c) It does something like gets rid of bacteria/disease so is actually a benefit for us

Edit: It is a valid mathematical operation, and though it does have fault, the fallacy is not in the dividing by zero.

8. Originally Posted by digitek

x=-1-1/x ,

Substituting the last expression for x in the original equation we get:

x^2+(x)+1=0

x^2+(-1-1/x)+1=0
Question... Why did you only substitute for one of the x values?

Also about God wanting bad things to happen to good people, I don't think its necessary to have to accept it. Good and bad things happen to all kinds of people whether they deserve it or not, why does God have to specifically want or stop them from happening? We don't live in a perfect world, and I don't believe that God (or the devil [if he exists]) caused any good/bad thing to happen... yet, I admit I'm on the christian side here.

9. God could use this "unconventional logic", sure- But it wouldn't change the fact that thousands of innocent people die every day through no fault of their own, some in quite horrible ways. Which would mean that was his plan all along. Fate and logic are inseparable. God wanted Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of life, he wanted Jesus to die, and he wants to judge people by their sins... Sins that he could presumably just get rid of. He's god, remember? He made everything, and time is supposedly meaningless to him, which means he already knows what everything is going to do.

He's already decided who is going to Heaven and Hell, so there is no point trying to dodge the bullet.

Don't mean to be pushy, sorry if it comes across that way. I'm just surrounded by people who automatically think talking with intelligence and challenging 'the smart guys' is being big-headed, and I think the christian religion in specific has alot to do with that.