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Thread: Psalm 14: Who was Jesus' grandpa?

  1. #501
    Devilish Member Slurpee's Avatar
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    I find this thread hilarious to watch.
    I think this thread should be renamed to
    "watch kodos prove why you're wrong"

  2. #502
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Total derail: I just wanna say, Slurp, I love the shit out of your avatar.

    Also, back on topic, everything Del said, and also things like proton decay. Even if there were an infinite amount of matter, it would eventually, in time, deteriorate into its constituent parts. And knowledge can only be gained, basically, about large scale matter aggregates. One electron is basically the same as any other, so once we no longer have atoms to study, we can't really learn anything new after we've learned everything about quarks and electrons and other basal particles.

    So even if there was an infinite amount of matter in the universe, without new matter being created (impossible) there would eventually come a point where there was no longer any matter aggregates to learn shit about.

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  3. #503
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    I'd just like to make a point that "there is entropy because there is not an infinite amount of matter" is not scientifically sound reasoning. Actually, volume of matter has nothing to do with why there is entropy.

    So, Kodos, you can't really agree with Delphinus and also say:

    Even if there were an infinite amount of matter, it would eventually, in time, deteriorate...
    Because they are total opposite statements.

  4. #504
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Infinite energy would have to fill everywhere entirely. It couldn't be spread unevenly; everywhere would have an equal quantity of energy. Therefore energy would not move from areas of high density to areas of low density - no entropy. Not to mention that the universe would be a massive soup of charged matter if there were infinite energy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  5. #505
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    So it's like a hot cup of coffee?
    *slowly walks back out*

  6. #506
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    I'd just like to make a point that "there is entropy because there is not an infinite amount of matter" is not scientifically sound reasoning. Actually, volume of matter has nothing to do with why there is entropy.

    So, Kodos, you can't really agree with Delphinus and also say:



    Because they are total opposite statements.
    I was talking about proton decay and other issues involving the stability of matter aggregates. My point was that even if there was an infinite amount of matter in the universe, there would come a time when all of the large scale aggregates would have broken down. You'd be left with a spartan soup of basal particles and maybe a few of the more stable atoms. Either way, you'd be left with nothing worth studying because there is nothing you can learn about one electron that you can't learn from any other. Infinite matter providing infinite discoveries only holds true if this matter is constantly being found in new and different forms. If the universe was full of infinite matter in finite combinations than knowledge would still be limited.

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  7. #507
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    ...everywhere would have an equal quantity of energy.
    Untrue. The distribution of energy varies between environments. Even with an infinite amount of energy, two extremely different environments--say, our atmosphere and the vacuum of space--would not have the same concentration of energy. Let's take the most basic form of free energy: heat. Heat would not exist in the same concentration in a vacuum as it would in a conductive atmosphere with a lot of pressure and, most importantly, gravity.

    But of course, we both agree that there is no such thing as infinite energy.

    And yeah, Kodos, that makes sense.

  8. #508
    Devilish Member Slurpee's Avatar
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    @ Kodos
    aw thanks man

    This science stuff is getting way advanced here. o_o

  9. #509
    Three Trio Tres Member BozeSG's Avatar
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    What is this i don't even. the only conclusion i found from this is that you guys are far too near-sighted...

    . the finite universe can easily be proven with the big bang, since the amount of matter existent and the energy used in the big bang was limited and nowhere near infinite... that is, if you can prove that this universe is the only thing existent in the world! now let's see, the so called "universe" we're talking about here is like a huge bubble without any actual boundaries that can differentiate between the outside and the inside of it, now supposedly, you can't get out of this bubble and you can't interact with anything outside of it simply because of it's curve in time-space, which basically means that you'll get back to wherever you where after trillions of years of travelling...
    . but that's not the point here. the point is that the universe is expanding, so this bubble is becoming bigger and bigger and it's occupying more space, now the only conclusion you can get to from there is that there still is space outside this bubble of ours since if there was a preposterous thing such as un-occupiable space, then the universe wouldn't simply expand... the question is, what just is outside this universe? some models say that this "universe" is one of a few billion more bubbles made by the same kind of phenomenon like the big bang in a foam of time-space... but this simply cannot be proven because no one is able to confirm it.
    . so in the end, it is safe to say that we don't know shit about this world, we simply don't fucking know anything! we can only shut up and hope to find clues about the universe we live in and study it completely only to find some hints of the world outside of it! on this reason, i'll base my argument: "the amount of knowledge obtainable in this world is infinite, whether it's safer to assume that god exists or not, or whether religions are right or not, it is simply absurd to claim humans can be definite about the existence of a being who is described to be the creator of the everything which they don't know shit about..."
    Last edited by BozeSG; 06-24-2011 at 02:03 PM.

  10. #510
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BozeSG View Post
    What is this i don't even.

    the finite universe can easily be proven with the big bang, since the amount of matter existent and the energy used in the big bang was limited and nowhere near infinite...
    Actually talking about anything prior to the big bang is just making shit up. We don't know that.

    that is, if you can prove that this universe is the only thing existent in the world!
    I don't have to prove that. You have to prove that it's not. If you want to postulate that the universe is actually a multiverse then the onus is on you. You cannot appeal to multiverse theories as evidence for God since these theories are highly controversial and hotly debated. You can't appeal to one unproven theory to prove another.

    now let's see, the so called "universe" we're talking about here is like a huge bubble without any actual boundaries that can differentiate between the outside and the inside of it, now supposedly, you can't get out of this bubble and you can't interact with anything outside of it simply because of it's curve in time-space, which basically means that you'll get back to wherever you where after trillions of years of travelling...
    Actually the exact 'shape' of the universe is another hotly debated thing which has no real answer yet so your argument that the universe is like a game of asteroids and that if you go in one direction long enough you'll 'wraparound' and start back where you left is dubious at best.

    but that's not the point here. the point is that the universe is expanding, so this bubble is becoming bigger and bigger and it's occupying more space,
    That's not exactly what it means to say the universe is expanding.

    now the only conclusion you can get to from there is that there still is space outside this bubble of ours since if there was a preposterous thing such as un-occupiable space, then the universe wouldn't simply expand... the question is, what just is outside this universe?
    Actually the only conclusion I can get from that is you have an extremely poor understanding of physics. When it is said that the universe is expanding it means that most matter in the universe is redshifted away from us. That the matter in the universe is still spreading out and expanding within the universe. Space-time itself is not expanding because it's not clear that space-time is a 'thing' nor is it clear that if it is a thing that there is anywhere for it to expand into.

    So, again, you're appeal to ignorance is even worse because it is not only appealing to ignorance, but appealing to misunderstanding of science.

    some models say that this "universe" is one of a few billion more bubbles made by the same kind of phenomenon like the big bang in a foam of time-space... but this simply cannot be proven because no one is able to confirm it.
    so in the end, it is safe to say that we don't know shit about this world, we simply don't fucking know anything!
    "Some people have made a claim that there may be other universes. There is literally no evidence whatsoever to back up these claims. Ergo we know nothing about the universe!" Do you not see how fucking insane this is? Really? You are literally saying that an unproven theory that is only two steps away from being pseudo-science is somehow proving that all knowledge is meaningless. Are you a troll? You have to be. This is the most effort I've ever seen put into what amounts to a worthless argument.

    we can only shut up and hope to find clues about the universe we live in and study it completely only to find some hints of the world outside of it! on this reason, i'll base my argument: "the amount of knowledge obtainable in this world is infinite, whether it's safer to assume that god exists or not, or whether religions are right or not, it is simply absurd to claim humans can be definite about the existence of a being who is described to be the creator of the everything which they don't know shit about..."
    Even if there were other universes it still does not follow that there is an infinite amount of matter (matter in this case being taken to mean meaningful large scale aggregates about which new things can be learned) so besides all the other insane problems with your argument, you're entire argument is still a nonsequitor.

    Premise: The theory of evolution explains how life originated on Earth.
    Premise: I had pop tarts for breakfast.
    Conclusion: Kodos is right.

    There, I can do it too.

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