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Thread: Psalm 14: Who was Jesus' grandpa?

  1. #221
    Lucky Member Blue_Dragon's Avatar
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    I think I'm good, but thanks :P Also, thanks for clarifying for me. Sorry if I misread (I do that sometimes...)
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  2. #222
    Fenn
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    Um, can I re-ask a question? If one adheres to solipsism, would it be logical not to believe, but consider plausible, the concept of an eternal consciousness since the idea of a physical brain is unproven?

  3. #223
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Um, can I re-ask a question? If one adheres to solipsism, would it be logical not to believe, but consider plausible, the concept of an eternal consciousness since the idea of a physical brain is unproven?
    No. Because unless you consider solipsism plausible (there is a difference between possible and plausible, mind) you've already accepted that the external universe is the most plausible reality. Everything we know about the apparent external universe tells us that an eternally existing consciousness that continues to perpetuate itself even after the brain has ceased to function, or even been outright destroyed, is implausible if not literally impossible.

    And if the only way you can even begin to make a belief seem plausible is by resorting to an appeal to solipsism, well that should tell you something about how insane that belief is.

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  4. #224
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    No. Because unless you consider solipsism plausible (there is a difference between possible and plausible, mind) you've already accepted that the external universe is the most plausible reality. Everything we know about the apparent external universe tells us that an eternally existing consciousness that continues to perpetuate itself even after the brain has ceased to function, or even been outright destroyed, is implausible if not literally impossible.

    And if the only way you can even begin to make a belief seem plausible is by resorting to an appeal to solipsism, well that should tell you something about how insane that belief is.
    So I take it you don't agree with solipsism?

  5. #225
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    No one agrees with solipsism. The moment you share the idea with another person you betray your doubt in the concept.

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  6. #226
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    No one agrees with solipsism. The moment you share the idea with another person you betray your doubt in the concept.
    Haha so by asking that I manages a super-dooper-internet-logic fail? Sweet!

    ...but I thought we already discussed this in some form. Even if our known reality is false/doubted, the only realistic course of action, in fact the only possible action short of suicide/giving up, is to "play along." Is solipsism different than Cogito Ergo Sum, or am I just absolutely clueless?



    ...


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    ...I'm going to go ice my brain now.

  7. #227
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    ^ Solipsism claims that the only things we can know are Cogito Ergo Sum, tautologies, and mathematical truths. Believing the truth-value of anything else automatically puts you outside of solipsism.

  8. #228
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    ^ Solipsism claims that the only things we can know are Cogito Ergo Sum, tautologies, and mathematical truths. Believing the truth-value of anything else automatically puts you outside of solipsism.
    So how does that make this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Um, can I re-ask a question? If one adheres to solipsism, would it be logical not to believe, but consider plausible, the concept of an eternal consciousness since the idea of a physical brain is unproven?
    ...illogical? Even if I doubt a person's existence their logic can be correct.

  9. #229
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    So how does that make this...


    ...illogical? Even if I doubt a person's existence their logic can be correct.
    "No. Because unless you consider solipsism plausible (there is a difference between possible and plausible, mind) you've already accepted that the external universe is the most plausible reality. Everything we know about the apparent external universe tells us that an eternally existing consciousness that continues to perpetuate itself even after the brain has ceased to function, or even been outright destroyed, is implausible if not literally impossible.

    And if the only way you can even begin to make a belief seem plausible is by resorting to an appeal to solipsism, well that should tell you something about how insane that belief is. "

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  10. #230
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    "No. Because unless you consider solipsism plausible (there is a difference between possible and plausible, mind) you've already accepted that the external universe is the most plausible reality. Everything we know about the apparent external universe tells us that an eternally existing consciousness that continues to perpetuate itself even after the brain has ceased to function, or even been outright destroyed, is implausible if not literally impossible.

    And if the only way you can even begin to make a belief seem plausible is by resorting to an appeal to solipsism, well that should tell you something about how insane that belief is. "
    Duh. So, what I understand of solipsism seems plausible. There are only two possibilities regarding the truth of external reality: it is the absolute truth or it isn't. And while I obviously live my life according to the laws of external reality, that doesn't mean I don't have doubts about it.

    I can't see why you choose to adhere yourself(s) so firmly to the known external reality. Humans have been steadily increasing their understanding of the world and the state of human existence. Are you under the impression that every "revelation" we will have as beings about our existence has already occured? That we "know" all their is about the philosophy of existing?

    Seriously, are we done with this facet of science and discovery? I'm asking you as I am clearly far too uneducated to even begin to answer this. My impression is that, as human history has showed us, we are just as likely to be seeing the tip of the iceberg as we are viewing the big picture. Thus, while I find it utterly foolish to (A) believe/suggest that God/a soul or other such concepts exist, (B) live under the impression that the external reality is false, I can't see the harm in keeping a healthy skepticism and a mild level of doubt that we have reached the pinnacle of human understanding of our own status.

    I'm using way too many word again, and apologize for being so difficult to understand. Here's my point in short: I'm going to my deathbed without any expectation of an eternal consciousness, or heaven, or any of that. But if someone walks over to me and asks if heaven exists, I'm not going to simply say "no."

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