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Thread: Psalm 14: Who was Jesus' grandpa?

  1. #11
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Well if we are talking about conscious beings than...no. I don't believe that. However, I think God might actually be a part of scientific knowledge.
    If God is simply some force of nature then it is silly to call it God since that is not what the term implies to most English speakers.

    What many Christians might call acts of God others will call coincedences. In fact many times when unexpected events occur people look for a reason, but really there doesn't have to be. Or does there?
    By definition coincidences are unrelated. Also just like how our brains are structured to find faces in things, leading to paraidola, they are also structured to find patterns. As a general rule living as a simple hunter-gatherer it is more important to recognize patterns and faces, even if it means being overzealous, than to fail to recognize these things. This is part of why the God fallacy is so universal. It is in the nature of the human mind to see patterns and causal relations even where there are none.

    Studies and research have shown that things which seem completely random at first sight, like the stock market or insect movements, actually involve deeply complex patterns. In fact, much of science involves searching for the causes of events and occurences.
    Yes.

    Could what many call God actually be the undiscovered rules and patterns which dictate the actions and reactions of people to situations and each other, a sort of "scientific karma," if you will?
    We already have that and it's called the Standard Model and/or Causality.

    I'm not going to pretend I have studied this idea, but I am simply trying to evaluate the plausibility of this idea.
    Why call that idea God when that is dishonest and furthermore not religious. You are simply talking about causality and physics.

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  2. #12
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Kodos how can you claim to be a dystheistic atheist when you, like I, worship Our Lady? How can you claim to be atheist in face of Her glorious Bust?

  3. #13
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Because it's very improper for a Discordian to be an atheist, duh.

    Hail Eris!

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  4. #14
    Junior Member Sawyer's Avatar
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    Regarding the title:

    Fifty shekels of silver and a forced marriage seem pretty comparable to the 18,000ish charge for sexual assault in the UK. Granted I'm not sure of the current exchange rate for shekels of silver to sterling. But as Bible justice goes...

  5. #15
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Are you trying to argue to me that the United Kingdom forces rape victims to marry their attacker? Furthermore I am unfamiliar with UK law so maybe this does happen, but are you also telling me that rapists in the UK are not forced to serve any sort of prison time and/or counseling and simply pay a fine and are immediately released into the general public, possibly after having just having had a forced marriage with their victim?

    And I do know for a fact that there are no legal situations in which a rape victim is executed for having been victimized in the UK.

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  6. #16
    Junior Member Sawyer's Avatar
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    Haha. I'm certainly telling you that there is a walk-out bail of around £18,000 in the UK, depending on the case. Google tells me it's $25,000 in Canada. Granted this comes with a one-way ticket to the sexual offender's list. Whether this involves counselling of some kind or not, I have no idea.

    Surely you realise I was partly in jest, but even so: I'd rather pay $25,000 and have some counselling than pay 50 shekels of silver and be stuck with a girl who would probably, quite rightly, hate me to hell.

  7. #17
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    It's not about what you, the hypothetical rapist, wants. I'm all for rehabilitation and believe the purpose of prison should be the rehabilitate criminal individuals if possible and, if nothing else, to protect society from further predation. That said it's not a question of what the criminal wants. It's a question of what is best for society at large. Marrying a victim to her rapist is fucking barbaric beyond words. Killing her is probably more civilized, at least that doesn't send the message of "You know when your rapist made you into an object and took your against your will turning you into his property? He was right! Have fun you dumb bitch!"

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  8. #18
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    Why call that idea God when that is dishonest and furthermore not religious. You are simply talking about causality and physics.
    Err...um...

    What I'm trying to say, I think, is that there may be undiscovered forces/scientifically comprehensible concepts that have been confused for "God." But I don't even have examples to list. Basically I need to figure out what I'm trying to say and how to say it.

  9. #19
    Junior Member Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    It's not about what you, the hypothetical rapist, wants.
    It's all about what I, the hypothetical rapist, wants. We're talking about severity of punishment here; justice, and the feelings of my victim (for which I probably don't care), have nothing to do with it. Having a massive fine and being forced to marry someone is certainly "a big deal". More of a "big deal" I would argue, than a $25,000 fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    I'm all for rehabilitation and believe the purpose of prison should be the rehabilitate criminal individuals if possible and, if nothing else, to protect society from further predation.
    *thumbs up*

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    Marrying a victim to her rapist is fucking barbaric beyond words. Killing her is probably more civilized, at least that doesn't send the message of "You know when your rapist made you into an object and took your against your will turning you into his property? He was right! Have fun you dumb bitch!"
    Beside the point. You're saying that back in bible-justice-day getting raped sucked for the victim, but "wasn't a big deal" for the actual rapist. I agree with the first part, obviously. The second part is where I disagree. It certainly WAS a big deal for the actual rapist - even to the extent of being more of a punishment than a £25,000 fine, and counselling.

    For society, which is worse? Bible-time. Obviously. But was it "not a big deal" in Bible-time? No. It was a terrible deal for both rapist and rapee.

    But this argument feels off-topic and pointless. I think you see where I'm coming from.

  10. #20
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Err...um...

    What I'm trying to say, I think, is that there may be undiscovered forces/scientifically comprehensible concepts that have been confused for "God." But I don't even have examples to list. Basically I need to figure out what I'm trying to say and how to say it.
    What acts or actions are you attributing to God? What are these yet to be discovered scientific forces or reactions going to explain?

    Also of course that's happened before. People believed lightning or thunder was the result of the anger of the gods. Now we know better. Each advance in science is another nail in the coffin of God. Gods live in the dark places and feed on ignorance. Where ever there is an unknown people can - and do - point and say "there is God!" That is why science is so dangerous to religion. Every fact no matter how great or how tiny is one less place for God to hide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
    It's all about what I, the hypothetical rapist, wants. We're talking about severity of punishment here; justice, and the feelings of my victim (for which I probably don't care), have nothing to do with it.
    What? We are talking about how the Bible is a monstrous book written by evil savages who believe that making rape victims become the property of their attacker. Justice and the feelings of the victim have everything to do with it.

    Having a massive fine and being forced to marry someone is certainly "a big deal". More of a "big deal" I would argue, than a $25,000 fine.
    A woman is property in the Bible. The fine is unpleasant, the bride not so much. If you are the sort of person who rapes other people I imagine you would enjoy the thought of having what amounts to a slave that you can also fuck whenever you want.

    Beside the point. You're saying that back in bible-justice-day getting raped sucked for the victim, but "wasn't a big deal" for the actual rapist. I agree with the first part, obviously. The second part is where I disagree. It certainly WAS a big deal for the actual rapist - even to the extent of being more of a punishment than a £25,000 fine, and counselling.
    You're insane.

    For society, which is worse? Bible-time. Obviously. But was it "not a big deal" in Bible-time? No. It was a terrible deal for both rapist and rapee.
    Morals are morals. If something is or is not morally wrong it is always that way. Context may depend on factors, yes, but temporal factors are not one of them. If it is wrong for a society to force rape victims to marry their attackers then it is equally wrong to do it in 2010 CE or BCE.

    But this argument feels off-topic and pointless. I think you see where I'm coming from.
    No and you are just coming across like a Christian and/or rape apologist. The two are often one and the same. It's amazing how often people who claim high morals will say things along the lines of "Bitch was asking for it wearing that slutty dress."

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