But I do agree on one point. Take away pleasure from a person (be it in any form - whatever that person considers pleasure) and life is not really worth living for him, unless he's like a caveman (because the basic food, shelter and protection etc were his pleasures).
And about adaptability, I see nothing wrong with it. Adapting is one thing, just tolerating is another. Adapting is coming to like it. Tolerating is just bearing with it and sort of going along with it whether you like it or not. And I agree with Fenn, adaptability is a useful trait. If you can't/don't want to adapt, make things around you suit you. One way or another, it's you doing things, not waiting for things to change or escaping from them.
I also have more questions: were these people eating at least enough to give them passable health? Was the temperature also at least borderline acceptable to live in without notable discomfort? If not then they do not meet the criteria specified and have every reason to be miserable.
Lastly, removing the communal aspect from many ways of life, or life itself, will usually decrease the level of pleasure in that aspect. Most humans are, by nature, social creatures There are certainly introverted individuals who enjoy large levels of solitude, but even they are inclined to some sort of social interaction, usually with small, intimate groups. The company of others is a crucial piece of the pleasure puzzle for, I would guesstimate, the majority of people on this planet.
There is nothing wrong with voluntarily changing one's perspectives on enjoyment to suit a situation, especially since attitude is often much more under our control than external environment.
Point: I am NOT simply saying "deal with it."
So how about that God guy, huh?
Oops! Sorry, the discussion kinda got side-tracked. (but the above post really cracked me up!)
Here's what I believe and think. I'm an agnostic. I don't really believe in religion, but I do understand why some things(traditions, teachings and all that blah) are followed, and don't understand why the others are being followed. But I don't see how it is evil or harmful to the world in general. Sure you can quote the examples of genocide, female oppression and other stuff the Church did in the past. But that was IN THE PAST. Right now, there are still a minority of people who strictly follow whatever is said in the books but that is a very small minority. I don't see any major destruction now. If you say that they are evil because they believe in evil things, or still think about doing something that will harm others, well, they are just thinking about it but not propagating it or actually doing it right? I just can't understand why you are so extreme about it. As long as nothing really bad is happening...
Yes. It's not like the Catholic Church still contributes towards misogyny, intolerance, and archaic ways of thinking. It's not like Christianity is a major driving force behind most hate groups in the West, as well as many of the atrocities in the Middle East committed by American invaders. It's not like the ongoing genocide in Palestine is motivated largely by religion, or rather justified by such, anyway.Sure you can quote the examples of genocide, female oppression and other stuff the Church did in the past. But that was IN THE PAST.
Oh, wait, it is.
Religion is still the single largest cause of human misery and barrier to progress in the world.
It may or may not be a minority, but it is not very small. America is run by such people. Well, rather, by such people who use such idiots to keep and maintain power and justify their plutocratic policies.Right now, there are still a minority of people who strictly follow whatever is said in the books but that is a very small minority.
Perpetual war in African and the Middle East, genocide, America invading and occupying foreign countries, fighting in the Philippines. Nope. Fighting between Sunni and Shi'a Muslims. Fighting between Muslims and Hindus. Nope. Definitely no major destruction wrought by religion going on atm!I don't see any major destruction now.
See above.If you say that they are evil because they believe in evil things, or still think about doing something that will harm others, well, they are just thinking about it but not propagating it or actually doing it right? I just can't understand why you are so extreme about it. As long as nothing really bad is happening...
Sorry about the sidetrack.
Hm, I wonder what will become of monotheistic religions once they fall into the realm of mythology? Society kind of trimmed and sugar-coated the stories of the gods of the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, etc. until they became like superheroes/symbolic figures. Can you see the same happening to the god(s) of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and others, or will they be cast into the trash barrel of history?
I have a question for Kodos:
Has any religious person anywhere, be it on the net or in life, made any compelling argument that has given you pause for thought?
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll get in on the chat anyway.Hm, I wonder what will become of monotheistic religions once they fall into the realm of mythology? Society kind of trimmed and sugar-coated the stories of the gods of the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, etc. until they became like superheroes/symbolic figures. Can you see the same happening to the god(s) of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and others, or will they be cast into the trash barrel of history?
Yes, ofcourse Judeo-Christian as well as the main asian faiths will fall into the catagory of mythology within time. That isn't to say they will be gone for good, their are still people in Norway and Denmark to this day who still believe in Odin, but you see what I mean. Mankind evolves and its ideas evolve along with them.
Although, since you mentioned the Greeks I will say this; I have a hard-on for the Ancient Greeks. They were an amazing collective of people who, you could say, were so ahead of their time in terms of artistry and politics (not medicine, but still) and even religion. The Greeks understood something that no monotheistic religion can, and in all probability ever will; We are better than our creators.
The Gods of Greek myth were jealous and petty and they envied humans because their lives were short, they had meaning, they had purpose, and after they died their names would be remembered. Whereas the Gods were eternal, envious and mercilessly cruel to humans they envied. It sounds obvious, but even an uneducated normal Greek person, even 4000 years ago, looking at the world (or the known world as its was then, which was essentially the Mediterrainian region) would think 'If there are beings that created all of us, then they are at best capricious and lazy and at worst complete and utter evil.' , but looking at many religious people today obvious clearly doesnt mean obvious.
They understood that, although they didn't believe this was the only life we had (they did ofcourse believe in an afterlife), this life had value, it had purpose and it was the envy of those who are divine.
Name me one major religion that plays on this idea today? All Judeo Christian faiths, aswell as most of major asian ones, play on the idea that it will be a blessed day when this life is over. This is just a trial run, the demo version of reality, and only after this life is over is when the real fun begins of serving and serving and serving.
I'd also like to add that throughout all of human history, in every country, culture, religion and time, there have been people held in high esteem. Heros, for want of a better term; Leonidas, Cochise, Joan of Arc, James Connolly, Wyatt Earp, and many thousands of others. People who have gone down in human history as greats. People who are sung, as some say. Now, if you are a secularist like myself, you look at these people, study their lives and think 'Wow, those people fought, and sometimes died, for freedom/equality/justice etc. They showed courage, honour and value for the people they cared about. They did the right thing, simply becuase it was the right thing to do.' If you believe in any of the monotheistic faiths you think; 'Wow, those people obeyed God/Allah/Yahweh etc and got the right results.' It cheapens them to say that. It degards them. They weren't brave, they weren't honourable, they were just following orders, and they followed those orders either to be rewarded after they were dead or to not be tortured forever after they were dead.
Religion degrades us. Its the biggest slap in the face to all of mankinds achievements.