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Thread: Psalm 14: Who was Jesus' grandpa?

  1. #141
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    But now they are forced to adopt philosophies that force them to use logic and argumentation to justify their beliefs.
    Why?
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  2. #142
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Because they will be living in a society that no longer considers "FAITH!/Because!" a valid justification for beliefs or actions and would be, at best, ostracized if they continued to behave in such a manner.

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  3. #143
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    Because they will be living in a society that no longer considers "FAITH!/Because!" a valid justification for beliefs or actions and would be, at best, ostracized if they continued to behave in such a manner.
    I... No? Is this a world where Religion never existed? Or one where you killed all the theists?
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  4. #144
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    It's the hypothetical world in which religion is no longer existent or accepted in the mainstream and seen for what it is. I never said anything about killing anyone. Social engineering could accomplish this goal.

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  5. #145
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    I disagree here and can logically demonstrate it. Watch:
    Premise 1. God is omnipotent.
    Premise 2. God is omniscient.
    Conclusion: Anything that happens happens only by God's allowance.
    Premise 1. God is omnipotent and omniscient and ergo can prevent any action he does not care for from happening.
    Premise 2. God is omnipotent ergo any action he takes costs him literally nothing in terms of effort.
    Conclusion: Anything that happens can be said to happen only either with God's direct approval or God's utter indifference.
    Premise 1. [Any definition of evil]
    Premise 2. Evil happens.
    Conclusion: Evil happens only because of God's approval and/or callous indifference.

    See? How you define evil does not matter. As long as you believe in some definition of evil and in the omnipotence and omniscience of God, then God's culpability is inevitable. The above is a deductive argument. You must fault a premise in order for it to be false.
    Mkay, so you proved God is evil, but that doesn't change the fact that such proof is USELESS without a definition of evil. What if I consider "evil" a good thing? (which, based on my actual definition, I don't) Then I would say, "Cool, God is evil!" which I presume is contrary to what you are trying to say by labeling him thus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    That's silly. It's one thing to be unnecessarily addicted to possessions and to value things over people, but there is nothing wrong with liking nice things.
    --
    If a man with much loses 10,000 dollars odds are he will not starve to death. If a man with little loses 1,000 dollars there is a very real chance he will starve.
    First, I said outside of necessary food, protection from the elements, and health. Loss of any of those three can and will severly hinder that person's potential for enjoyment. Second, I never said liking things was bad. I said material REQUIREMENTS. When people lose their ability to enjoy life without some sort of mandatory material aid, they become far more vulnerable. The best way (<<< opinion) to be happy is to enjoy life itself. I.e. enjoy images, sounds, feelings, smells, tastes, memories, and also the various of intangibles.

    It costs no money, barely any effort, and only as much time as you wish to spend to sit down and stare at a sunset, spend casual time with a friend, or listen to music being played on a city block. These, I have found, are much more reliable and pure forms of enjoyment than can be provided by material pleasures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    Intelligence. It is overwhelmingly likely that the difference between humans and other animals is one of degree and not kind. It is not that we have some unique trait that no other animal has, it's simply that we have a certain trait (intelligence) in far greater abundance than they have. And either way, science can and does identify the ways human differ. We have civilization, science, and culture. No other animal has the first two things, and with the possible exception of a few higher primates nothing else we know of has anything resembling culture.

    That said, I am strongly leaning towards the idea of cetacean personhood. Given what we know of dolphins it seems to me that any society that can consider the mentally retarded to be persons must also do the same for dolphins. But that is neither here nor there.
    Digression aside, it was still mean to call DemonKaiser a retard. Don't be mean. It's not nice.

    Unless it wasn't an insult and just a descriptive word. But it sounded slightly malicious. And mean.

  6. #146
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    Mkay, so you proved God is evil, but that doesn't change the fact that such proof is USELESS without a definition of evil. What if I consider "evil" a good thing?
    Evil is by definition not a good thing. It's a logical contradiction like "married bachelor" or "justified murder". If you accept that evil exists then you accept that it is bad. That is what it means for something to be evil.

    (which, based on my actual definition, I don't) Then I would say, "Cool, God is evil!" which I presume is contrary to what you are trying to say by labeling him thus.
    See above.

    First, I said outside of necessary food, protection from the elements, and health. Loss of any of those three can and will severly hinder that person's potential for enjoyment. Second, I never said liking things was bad. I said material REQUIREMENTS. When people lose their ability to enjoy life without some sort of mandatory material aid, they become far more vulnerable. The best way (<<< opinion) to be happy is to enjoy life itself. I.e. enjoy images, sounds, feelings, smells, tastes, memories, and also the various of intangibles.
    We live in a world owned and run by massive and evil corporations. Living a happy life without a fair deal of money is extremely difficult.

    It costs no money, barely any effort, and only as much time as you wish to spend to sit down and stare at a sunset, spend casual time with a friend, or listen to music being played on a city block. These, I have found, are much more reliable and pure forms of enjoyment than can be provided by material pleasures.
    One must work long and hard to sustain a reasonable lifestyle. That limits the time one can spend enjoying the arts and leisure time. Money does not equal happiness, but it does provide one with the time in which to seek happiness.

    Digression aside, it was still mean to call DemonKaiser a retard. Don't be mean. It's not nice.
    I didn't.

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  7. #147
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    It's the hypothetical world in which religion is no longer existent or accepted in the mainstream and seen for what it is. I never said anything about killing anyone. Social engineering could accomplish this goal.
    Could, wont. [/Pessimist]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    Evil is by definition not a good thing. It's a logical contradiction like "married bachelor" or "justified murder". If you accept that evil exists then you accept that it is bad. That is what it means for something to be evil.
    Evil is subjective. Some people think that getting an abortion, or having premarital sex is evil.
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  8. #148
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    No. What you consider evil is subjective. That evil is bad is objectively part of the definition. My logical proof works for literally any standard of good and evil. Again, it's like murder. What you consider murder may vary, but murder is by definition wrong. It's a word that means "wrongful killing." You cannot have a justified murder. The only room for variability is whether or not a specific killing is murder. Once you agree it is murder you agree it is evil. Likewise evil is by definition bad and wrong. Once you agree something is evil you automatically agree it is bad and wrong.

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  9. #149
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    What you consider evil is subjective.
    That's a negligible difference.
    My AA thread - Updated 06/28/14

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
    You're my favorite.

  10. #150
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    No it is not. It's a massive fucking difference. Can you really not see how the literal definition of a term and what things can be described by that term are different? It's like saying whether or not "red" means "a color" or "food made with chicken" and whether or not my hair is red are the same thing.

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