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Thread: Psalm 14: Who was Jesus' grandpa?

  1. #51
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodos View Post
    Because there are people who take everything the Bible says seriously. Furthermore because there are over one billion people on this planet who call themselves Christian. They must acknowledge this book is not divinely inspired at all and instead the work of truly evil men or accept even passages as repugnant as that one. You can't have it both ways.
    Except the men weren't evil. The Bible was a product of the times. By todays standards they (the writers) may be evil, but I see your point. (And by that logic, it probably would be better to be married to the man (even if it is supposed to be the man's punishment which is ridiculous). You aren't going to get stoned to death (which I still haven't seen that you would be anywhere) and no one back then was going to marry an un-chaste girl, whether it was a product of rape or not. (And at the time, marriage was probably the best thing a woman could get.))

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi View Post
    To cause to lie down. The problematic words here are 'to cause'. That implies force; it does not imply consent. Also, quit cutting the phrase in half. The phrase is "lay hold on her, and lie with her". That means; "To cause to lie down, to have sex with her". This means rape.
    I was cuttin it in half becuase the "to lie with part" is obvious. The Hewbrew does make it obvious that it is talking about rape though (as opposed to the English translation).
    Last edited by Bacon_Barbarian; 01-08-2011 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Had "ass" instead of "as"

  2. #52
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon_Barbarian View Post
    Except the men weren't evil. The Bible was a product of the times. By todays standards they (the writers) may be evil, but I see your point.
    God is omniscient; his morals don't change over time. It the Bible was inspired by God its morals would have been the exactly correct morals with which all people forever should live their lives. Why would God write a book (or "inspire" others to) that would need a second edition written after years?

    It all goes back to the idea that it is absurd for a perfect and divine being to create an imperfect world.

  3. #53
    One Thousand Member butternut's Avatar
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    ^^ that is pretty obvious right? Are there really people who believe the Bible word for word? and in "God" as a being? that the world was created by "him" in 6 days?
    Well, i think that the people in the ancient books and texts really existed. they may be really awesome people, who actually influenced people to follow the right path, pretty much ruled them, made some 'laws' and a moral code, and were basically philanthropists(i'm talking about waayy back in time). And everything written about them - it's all symbolism and metaphors. As time went by(come to around 15-16th century), people started misunderstanding/were led to misunderstand and thus was born all the hype about God performing miracles and such. Some of the stories may even be lies just to increase "God's" powers. After all, most of the texts, if not all, were written by man himself.

    When i say "misunderstand/were led to misunderstand", i mean that : maybe some ruler or organization wanted more power, thus twisting some aspects, attributing more 'powers' to God to scare the common man into submission. If he could not be scared, punish them in the name of "God".

    As for other beliefs like Roman or Greek mythologies, before science came into existence, man couldn't explain all the phenomena happening around him. hence he believed that some force, or being was controlling the atmosphere around him and thus were born the "Gods/Goddesses of Sun, Moon, Rain, Fire, Knowledge, etc etc".
    Why some people still believe in god even after everything is explained? Simple:Comfort. People take great comfort especially when in some kind of pain or despair that there is somebody up there looking over them.

    Well, that's what I think and believe. If anyone wants to refute me, you're welcome.

  4. #54
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=saphira;2554]^^ that is pretty obvious right? Are there really people who believe the Bible word for word?[.quote]
    Yes. There are a great many people who believe the Bible word for word. Furthermore if the Bible is consistently fails to get simple moral questions like "is rape a big deal?", "is slavery morally acceptable?", and "are women people?" then the Bible is completely worthless as a moral guide in any capacity. There are over 1 billion Christians, nearly as many Muslims, and several million Jews. A vast portion of the Human race claims to derive inspiration and guidance from what may well be the single most horrific thing ever wrought by the Human imagination.

    and in "God" as a being? that the world was created by "him" in 6 days?
    Well, i think that the people in the ancient books and texts really existed.
    There is very little reason to believe many of these people existed.

    they may be really awesome people,
    Awesome in the same way as Greek mythology's heros - evil jerks doing badass things.

    who actually influenced people to follow the right path,
    The right path of owning slaves, treating women as property, murdering those who do not believe in the same invisible sky tyrant as you, and generally causing more misery in history than any other one group, yes.

    pretty much ruled them, made some 'laws' and a moral code, and were basically philanthropists(i'm talking about waayy back in time).
    See above.

    And everything written about them - it's all symbolism and metaphors. As time went by(come to around 15-16th century), people started misunderstanding/were led to misunderstand and thus was born all the hype about God performing miracles and such. Some of the stories may even be lies just to increase "God's" powers. After all, most of the texts, if not all, were written by man himself.
    There is no God. All of these stories were written by extremely evil men.

    When i say "misunderstand/were led to misunderstand", i mean that : maybe some ruler or organization wanted more power, thus twisting some aspects, attributing more 'powers' to God to scare the common man into submission. If he could not be scared, punish them in the name of "God".
    This is part of the reason for religion, yes.

    As for other beliefs like Roman or Greek mythologies, before science came into existence, man couldn't explain all the phenomena happening around him. hence he believed that some force, or being was controlling the atmosphere around him and thus were born the "Gods/Goddesses of Sun, Moon, Rain, Fire, Knowledge, etc etc".
    Why some people still believe in god even after everything is explained? Simple:Comfort. People take great comfort especially when in some kind of pain or despair that there is somebody up there looking over them.
    That's part of why people still believe in religion. Many believe in religion because they are evil and seek to find legitimization for their vile beliefs. The Bible provides this in spades.

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  5. #55
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    God is omniscient
    Not originally he wasn't. (May have that confused with the following) Hell, in the original, God wasn't suppose to be good. (Read in Philosophy Textbook.) Where do you think the phrase "God fearing" comes from? Hmmm?

  6. #56
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    Christians often equate love with fear. For most of human history it was not - and in many places still is not - considered unusual for a man to be known to beat his wife and yet be believed to love her. Or to beat children. You are dealing with a diseased mindset that believes love and hate and not polar opposites.

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  7. #57
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Fair enough. You cant say all Chrisitians are wife and children beaters though. That's simply not true.
    Last edited by Bacon_Barbarian; 01-09-2011 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Grammar

  8. #58
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    I never implied such a thing. I'm simply saying that talking about love and fear in rational terms when dealing with Judeo-Christians is impossible. These people believe an all-loving being created an endless concentration camp wherein horrors worse than any wrought in Auschwitz are perpetrated literally forever.

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  9. #59
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Since when? I think if I ask any Christian I know they'll tell me God isn't responsible for Hitler. (Which means most Christians are hypocrites, but w/e.)
    Last edited by Bacon_Barbarian; 01-09-2011 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Grammar

  10. #60
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    God created Hell. Hell is infinitely worse than Auschwitz or any other Nazi death camp. That's my point. Think about that. Infinitely worse. The horrors of the Nazi death camps are literally nothing compared to Hell.

    And yet they say that this is the work of a all-loving being, and not the most vile monster the Human imagination has ever produced.

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