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Thread: 9/11

  1. #1
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    9/11

    Late, whatever.

    Some thought a good friend of mine said on Facebook Sunday. I'd just post what I said, but the following clearly outdoes my "Let us have clarity in our minds and peace in our hearts. May we forget the atrocities and move on with our lives."

    So anyway, some words of, what I find to be, wisdom.

    9/11: a great tragedy whose overall significance has been blown ridiculously out of proportion.

    How should I start? Let me just begin by saying that I absolutely agree, on the surface, with what everyone is saying about it. I mourn the losses of thousands of lives just as much as anybody, and I have the utmost respect and admiration for everyone who displayed courage and risked or even gave their lives to help save that of others. If this were all that remembering 9/11 was about, I would have no problem with it. However, it is not, and this why I have honestly grown sick and tired about hearing about an event that happened 10 years ago on this date.

    People say they remember 9/11 as a day that Americans came together as a country and became more unified in the face of a national crisis. At first, this may have been true superficially. Everyone went out and bought American flags and considered themselves more patriotic and proud to be citizens of their nation. However, if you look at what this has done to America in the long run, we have not come any closer together as a people—the attacks dragged America into two deeply divisive, controversial wars which have only pulled us apart and created more animosity toward specific groups (American Muslims, for instance) or even just people with differing views. Besides, the only thing that brought people together in the first place was fear. A few buildings were attacked, a few thousand people died, and suddenly an entire nation started freaking out that the whole population of the Middle East was part of a massive terrorist organization that intended to kill every single one of us. I exaggerate slightly here, but you get what I’m saying. People became more paranoid and distrustful of others who appeared to pose a threat to their personal security. For example: I have an uncle who is a Sikh, meaning he has a beard, wears a turban, and in general looks somewhat like your stereotypical Muslim (at least for the average American who has little knowledge about either religious tradition) except for the fact that he grew up in Ohio. He has told stories about getting stopped every 50 feet every time he goes to the airport, just because of what he looks like. Clearly, there is something wrong here. Also, the 9/11 attacks led to the passing of the Patriot Act, which infringes heavily upon the civil liberties of suspected “terrorists” in the name of national security. Wiretapping and other such violations of privacy have been occurring in the past decade with the intentions of keeping us safe, when really the primary result has been making us feel less safe.

    This notion of 9/11 as a unifying force for Americans is by no means the only inaccurate perception we have about it. Imagine for a second if we had viewed the attack as an international crime rather than as an act of war. The whole world would look very different now, without a doubt. If instead of declaring a war on terror, as if such a concept is even logically plausible, we had taken the issue to an international court, things would have turned out very differently. The US would not have been plunged into two massive, largely ineffective, costly, debt-generating wars, for instance. We would have had the support of the rest of the world, including most of the world’s Islamic population who were undoubtedly embarrassed by the actions of a few extremists claiming to be acting for the sake of all of them. America would have received sympathy following such a tragic event, rather than being viewed as it was, and deserved to be, as the big stupid bully that nobody wants to mess with, with the independent cowboy-ish goddamn-it-I’ll-take-care-of-things-myself-and-to-hell-with-anybody-who-gets-in-my-way kind of attitude. We would not have spent trillions of dollars to achieve little real purpose other than making the rest of the world hate us, thus contributing to a massive downfall in our national economy, as well as the global economy which relies far too heavily on ours. Our lives in general in all likelihood would have more security now than they actually do, not less, given the fact that extremist organizations such as Al-Qaeda underwent massive increases after we declared war on terror. Of course nothing can be proven one way or another, but the chances appear slim that another 9/11 would have happened had we not responded how we did. As I said earlier, it was more like an international crime, not an act of war by a mass entity or nation, and its main purpose was to send a message. It was trying to inspire fear among Americans (there’s a reason we call it “terrorism”), and considering the amount that we’re still talking about it ten years later, it obviously succeeded.

    Clearly, our reactions as a nation to 9/11 have proven to be far more costly (both in terms of human lives and economic costs, as well as national feelings of security) than 9/11 itself was. I suppose what upsets me is the amount of attention we give to commemorating it in proportion to other events which have been just as disastrous. I could mention any number of deadly occurrences that have occurred worldwide in recent years, but I will choose another that happened in the United States: Hurricane Katrina. Thousands of people were also killed by this event, and many times more were left in a state of total economic ruin, yet we did not do nearly as much last month in remembrance of it. Nearly as many families lost loved ones, and there were surely just as many displays of courage and service worth our admiration. This was another example of Americans coming together, and in this case it was not out of some fear that another massive hurricane would sweep across the entire nation. So why are we not commemorating it? Well, for one thing, it’s rather difficult to blame someone for a meteorological occurrence. No politician could attempt to declare war on the weather without being laughed at by the entire nation, even if the concept of a war on terror may seem almost as implausible. 9/11 was different because it felt more like a personal attack, just like Pearl Harbor did. Of course we are no longer making a massive celebration every year on December 7, the date which would live in infamy, because Japan is no longer our enemy. We no longer feel victimized by the fascists or the communists, so now the terrorists, and all those seeming to be loosely associated with them, are having their turn to be victimized in return. The fact that September 11 has been called “Patriot Day,” when there are so many positive past events to be celebrated in our nation, sickens me. If we have to draw patriotism from a negative event that made us feel like our national dignity was slighted, rather than appreciate all the positive accomplishments our nation has made, this does not make us seem like a very patriotic people. We say that “freedom isn’t free,” and this is certainly true to some extent, but does that mean freedom is like a continuous debt for which we must regularly pay interest in the form of war, at the cost of freedom and security elsewhere? Far too many of America’s dealings in other nations in recent decades have been mislabeled as protecting our liberty, when in fact the situations there have had very little to do with us. Sometimes we have even removed power from democratically elected leaders (Iran, Central America, etc.) and installed new ones that favor certain special interests (oil companies, fruit companies, etc.). But my point here is that America has used the word “freedom” extensively in contexts where it may not really apply, as an excuse to be the big bad kid, the “global police force.” We need to realize that while a terrorist attack may have been a great tragedy that impacted thousands of lives, America has far larger problems to deal with now than an event that happened ten years ago. Our economy, for one thing, is a total disaster, and we are potentially beginning to lose our status as a world superpower because we chose to focus our resources and energies on dealing with nations toward the back of the race to globalization rather than keeping up our competition with others in the front of the pack. My hope is that after this tenth anniversary, we can find the strength as a nation to stop living in the past and move on, thus enabling ourselves to prepare for whatever lies ahead.

    My intentions here are to instigate discussion, so please comment. I'd like to hear people's thoughts, even if you totally disagree with everything here.
    My AA thread - Updated 06/28/14

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
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  2. #2
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    You forget that the commemoration of 9/11 isn't for you, it's for the people who actually lost someone in the event. They don't just talk about it to talk about it. It helps some people cope with their losses. The significance of 9/11 to a person who lost a close friend or family member will never be blown out of proportion as there is a constant reminder of their loss in the absence of a loved one.

  3. #3
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CypressDahlia View Post
    You forget that the commemoration of 9/11 isn't for you, it's for the people who actually lost someone in the event. They don't just talk about it to talk about it. It helps some people cope with their losses. The significance of 9/11 to a person who lost a close friend or family member will never be blown out of proportion as there is a constant reminder of their loss in the absence of a loved one.
    Debatable. We've sort of turned it into an event to hate on the Middle East.
    My AA thread - Updated 06/28/14

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
    You're my favorite.

  4. #4
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    How is it debatable that a person who has unfairly lost a loved one would want that event commemorated?

  5. #5
    Fifty Fifty Member Bacon_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Oh, not that part, just that that is what is actually is.
    My AA thread - Updated 06/28/14

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Fox View Post
    You're my favorite.

  6. #6
    101 Dalmations Member Egoslip's Avatar
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    Yeah.. Why was this treated as an act of war instead of an international crime?

    Why is there so much physical scientific evidence that has been discredited? Personally I don't think this country will heal.. will cope with the incident until the truth is exposed and the real terrorists are apprehended and brought to justice. And these terrorists don't wield AK47's, hide in holes and wear turbans.. the terrorists are right there... on your t.v. in a suit and tie, sitting behind a desk wielding pens and paper. I was absolutely appalled when Bin Laden was shot.. and then his body was lost at sea... and the media said it was too sensitive for the public to see yet we all remember seeing pictures of Saddam Huesseins autopsied body. People ask me why I'm ashamed to live in the U.S.A... and the reason is because our leaders were and probably ARE so vile as to think of a plan that would cost thousands of lives, those of the WTC buildings and those of our soldiers over seas.. just to gain power through the all mighty piece of paper called the dollar. The sad part is anyone who questions it, speaks of it, or believes in the deceit of the ones involved really are treated as crack pot conspiracy theorist, but it's not a conspiracy when the scientific evidence is.. well.. evident. Even during the clean up, the wreckage wasn't inspected but rather destroyed, which is in it's self a crime. (Destroying Evidence) When you look at a crime who become the suspects? Obviously the ones who sanctions the destruction of said evidence, I'm no lawyer but I'm sure that could be construed as something along the lines of guilty actions... And then we have a mass wave of disinformation and "official" reports that dispute PHYSICS!!

    Just had to say my piece on this whole subject matter... as for the families.. they deserve commemoration to the lost loved ones as well as a proper criminal investigation.
    Last edited by Egoslip; 09-17-2011 at 05:03 AM.

  7. #7
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    What exactly are you insinuating, Ego. Like what part exactly do you think is a hoax? I hope you're not one of those people who think there weren't actually planes involved or something like this.

  8. #8
    101 Dalmations Member Egoslip's Avatar
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    Did I ever use the word Hoax? No.. I don't think like that. I know a two planes crashed into two buildings.. what I'm saying.. is an airline jet could not have knocked a sky scraper (with the skeletal structure of reinforced steel) down in a way which it would implode on it's self at the speed of free fall... I'm saying after the planes hit, there are amateur videos that depict multiple other loud explosions that occurred, after the planes hit and before the buildings fell. I'm saying there is no way an office fire can cause IRON or STEEL to melt into a liquid.. I'm saying the refuting of forensic evidence of the dust collected from the event that day (that lead to evidence that thermite was used to cut the support beams causing a "controlled demolition") because "it's JUST dust" (paraphrased from a "specialist" that worked for popular mechanics magazine") is appalling when we use DNA to prosecute murderers and rapists. I'm saying evidences like these and more are being investigated by civilians who are architects and physicists etc etc who have read the "official 9/11 report" and disagree with it on a scientific basis. There's even the explanation that the top 1/3 of the building fell to crush the other 2/3 of the building by sheer weight alone... which has been disproved through experimentation. People have taken steel beams, made the same way the the ones that held the buildings up and tried to melt them with fire that equates the temperatures of an office fire yet the beams remain sturdy. We even have examples of office fires in sky scrapers that have never once resulted in a complete demolition as a direct reaction to the fire themselves... which is what we are told caused the third WTC building to fall. There were even people who spotted one religious fanatic in a strip joint drinking and snorting cocaine a bit prier to the attack it's self, which his "religion" would prevent him from doing.

    These are all forensic evidences that have been discredited by the NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology who wrote the investigative architectural report).. and my question is WHY! The whole picture is missing, all we have to go on is what we saw.. (us being the people who weren't there at the site WHEN it happened).. and what we've been told. But organizations like the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group of about 1,578 educated and distinguished professionals are looking at all the evidence and going "wait a minute.. this doesn't add up"... like I said.. the evidence is.. evident. There are even people who would look at what we would call a "motive" for taking the buildings down... and it points towards our nations leaders at the time in the Bush Administration. This is called Synthetic Terrorism... and it's not a new concept either.
    Last edited by Egoslip; 09-17-2011 at 06:09 AM.

  9. #9
    Super Senior Member CypressDahlia's Avatar
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    Here is something you might want to examine.

  10. #10
    Bad Enough Dude to Rescue the President Kodos's Avatar
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    1999 A.D. = Day of Lavos
    6/29/2001 = Final Fantasy Chronicles
    9/11/2001 = 9/11
    29 - 11 = 18 1+8 = 11 9/11
    LAVOS DID 9/11 WAKE UP SHEEPLE

    But seriously. 9/11 conspiracy theories? Really, Ego? Really?

    EDIT: Also, Ego, you are ashamed to be an American because of the 2,977 victims of the 9/11 attacks who America - at best - *may* have killed, but not because of the over 40,000 Iraqis America has, without any shadow of a doubt, murdered?

    Do you like big boobs? Dragons? Ninja? Martial arts? Wizards? Then click here and make all your wildest dreams come true!!

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