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Thread: UK/European Riots

  1. #1
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    UK/European Riots

    In the past few years, Europe has been bursting into riots in response to the increasing class divide and the downturn in economies. In the last few days there's been rioting in the major cities of the UK.

    Speculation and opinions on these events go here. Personally I agree with the Spanish newspaper El Pais:

    Quote Originally Posted by El Pais
    The economic crisis cannot become the sole explanation for the violent outbreaks that are multiplying in Europe. Each case is different, but taken together they are bolstering the view that representative democracy is incapable of dealing peacefully with the growing unrest among citizens. It is a slippery slope that governments have to deal with, while scrupulously obeying the rule of law.
    I posted something last night about it, as well. This is just my opinion, mind you.

    Public unhappiness amongst working class, caused by economic downturn.
    Economic downturn, caused by deficit spending and subprime lending.
    Deficit spending and subprime lending, caused by need of government to remain popular through popular policies and derestriction of banks.
    Need of government to remain popular caused by the democratic system.
    Democratic system caused by human need to feel power, even if that power is only illusory.

    Human nature, but in terms of what's changeable, the economic repercussions of democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  2. #2
    999 Knights Member Regantor's Avatar
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    Really pissed off about the kind of representation young people are getting through this. It just goes to show that Britain is really a plutocracy rather than a democracy, and that the class system is still very much alive and well. Sorry if this clashes with your ideas, Del, but although I have a pretty dim view of capitalism, I can hardly say this is a fault on the part of democracy itself...

    Through the looters are made up entirely of criminal opportunists and young neanderthals trying to be hip, but the resentment really does lead back to the coalition government. Both parties have used their two-party deal as a means to completely ignore whatever promises they made before the election. To exacerbate things, pretty much the only solution they have come up with since the riots began is "Use rubber bullets."

    How are people supposed to communicate or empathize with logic like that? Nobody on top is interested in fixing the reasons behind the resentment at all.

    Too any body who got their businesses smashed up by these idiots, you really have my sympathies. But 'locking up all the evil people' is hardly going to solve things. They did not become brainless on their own.

  3. #3
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Yes. The government has sown the seeds of its own destruction and now it's going to reap the whirlwind. This is entirely the fault of the New Labour government and of the new(ish) coalition.

    I hope they can stop the riots, but if they don't address the problems then this is just going to get worse and happen again and again until someone finally tries to attack the causes rather than the symptoms. At least this has the government scared, even if it's not directly a protest against them. In regards to blaming the rioters; it's a right-wing authoritarian government, of course they're going to pretend that everything is the fault of the protesters.

    So long as nobody I know gets hurt, I'm ambivalent to these riots. On the one hand, it's an awful thing to have innocent people be hurt or have their property damaged, but on the other it ought to stimulate argument about questions that have remained unanswered by the ruling class for far too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regantor
    I can hardly say this is a fault on the part of democracy itself...
    Not to get too off-topic (or is it on-topic?) but democracy shows itself time and time again to be wasteful, populist, and favouring short-term goals over long-term ones. It also has a tendency to be unstable. Athens' democracy collapsed; so did Rome's senate. Democracy has historically only lasted 500 years at most.
    Last edited by Delphinus; 08-09-2011 at 09:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  4. #4
    999 Knights Member Renzokuken's Avatar
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    PHOTOS INCOMING














    Some pictures I took in town (Birmingham) a little while ago. I hear they're about to start again soon.

  5. #5
    Three Trio Tres Member BozeSG's Avatar
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    WTF IS THIS SHIT I DON'T EVEN. PEOPLE IN MY COUNTRY ARE GETTING KILLED, ARRESTED AND TORTURED ONLY BECAUSE THEY WANT THE MOST BASIC RIGHTS YOU TAKE FOR GRANTED AND IN THE MEAN WHILE YOU START RIOTS WITH THE GREATEST CAUSE BEHIND IT BEING EXTRA TVS AND TRAINERS?!?!?! ON TOP OF BEING RIDICULOUS, THIS IS TAKING AWAY FAR MORE THAN IT'S GIVING, LEARN 2 APPRECIATE YOU NOOBS!!!! I'M REALLY PISSED ABOUT THIS!!! FGSDFGDFSGDFGSDTSGFDGHAHFDGFDHGASFGHDASFGHDFSGAHFD HASGFDHASGFDGHASFHDs...

    (sorry, i just had to take this off my chest...)

  6. #6
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    ^ The cause isn't extra TVs and trainers.

    Massive amounts of young people have no qualifications or prospects in life, and the government is cutting services all over the place, thus worsening the class divide. Hence more young people are angry, and it only took a spark to turn these riots into a raging inferno.

    Although it's still not as bad as where you live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  7. #7
    999 Knights Member Regantor's Avatar
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    Please don't belive the news, Boze.

    There is reasoning in this besides random looting. I haven't seen a single camera shot of the actual protests. The goverment just wants to make it look like they are all mindless young criminals in order to make the riots stop without people asking too many questions.

    Is our goverment actively malicious and hurting people for basic rights? No. But they are squeezing all of the money out of the poorest groups, and as Del so adequately put it a while back, guilting people into working themselves to death in a climate of peer preasure and backbreaking tax laws.

    There are plenty of people out there who have been going out and repairing their comunities over day as volenteer work. Like I said, please don't let the news fool you into making us all look like moronic sheep who need to be lead 'for their own good'... If you want "giving results in more than taking", just check out the massive multi-million pound bonuses the bankers gave themselves despite screwing up almost every economy on the planet last year...

  8. #8
    Super Senior Member Delphinus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regantor View Post
    ...guilting people into working themselves to death in a climate of peer preasure and backbreaking tax laws.
    This is something I have personal experience with. Everyone seems to expect people (me) to try and find work, as if it doesn't encourage dependence on corporations and lead to a cycle of debt. They are naive; even the majority of so-called liberals buy into this insanity. I would rather do volunteer work than paid labour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regantor View Post
    There are plenty of people out there who have been going out and repairing their comunities over day as volenteer work.
    I'd be tempted to do so if I lived closer to Croydon or the other affected areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regantor View Post
    ...just check out the massive multi-million pound bonuses the bankers gave themselves despite screwing up almost every economy on the planet last year...
    Most people would do the same thing. Don't delude yourself into thinking that the bankers themselves are responsible for all of this; they acted in accordance with the one rule of capitalism: go forth and profit. Most people want more money, and this is the logical result. The problem is the lack of restriction on markets. Ordinarily I'm not for those restrictions; I feel, as many libertarians do, that social freedom can't be obtained without a degree of economic freedom. But the only legitimate function of the state is to protect the public good, and when one group starts taking actions that benefit themselves at the cost of the public, the state needs to clamp down on those actions in law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn
    You forgot your F in Modesty.

  9. #9
    999 Knights Member Regantor's Avatar
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    Isn't the enforcement of such restrictions where such plans fail, through?... With the total lack of transparency on the part of the banks or the government, corruption is just far too easy. Nobody is answerable to anything so long as they have cash. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you can only directly blame MPs of the banker's actions if you are either accusing them of corruption or negligence.

    I'd like to see something more in line with an elected technocracy myself, but feel that you'd have to completely tear the existing system down for that to take place. It just wouldn't be worth the strife in the current political world climate.

    As for employment, it would be different if educated people could actually find decent work. I've got a whole host of engineering qualifications and I've been doing shitty bit-part grocery store jobs since I was sixteen. Airbus has rejected my perfect entry exam results no less than eleven times... So yeah, I have experience too, and I basically agree with this. :/

  10. #10
    Devilish Member Slurpee's Avatar
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    I live in America and I have extremely dumbed down information. I don't know who to trust about this. BBC is Europe based so they will hide things. I only have French, Russian, and Chinese, News but all of them give propoganda. Where should I look for news about the situation?

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