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Thread: BozArts: More empty Promises

  1. #101
    Three Trio Tres Member BozeSG's Avatar
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    @tagYURIT:You are completely right, i've been wondering about that myself, although i didn't know what it exactly was i felt sth is missing. the truth is, i'm a bit scared of drawing my OCs and i've only tried it out 3 times up until now (posts 20#, 53# and 56#), so i only got stuck with learning foreshortening and perspective and things like that while randomly coming up with the face, clothes and details... so yeah, thanks for the great comment, i will go through things in more detail from now... and maybe someday i'll have enough confidence to draw whatever i want...

    @NWAP:Since you and tagYURIT both emphasized so much on copying, i'm definitely going to do it(maybe i'll make a reference library out of the cool drawings i see in mangas i read from now on).

    thanks again for the comments guys, they are very helpful and really help me both get motivated and better (since all the people around me have the reverse effect...)

  2. #102
    Zeta Members ram's Avatar
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    well reference won't get you to space though.. xD, it only helps with what detail to put in your drawing
    you won't understand more of the vectors with just that,
    for example: do you know that there are a lot of artist who use a lot of trick in perspective in drawing their background?, i've been studying perspective and realize that most people do that with their background, and if you follow those people you would just get lost with them cause your so much different in skills and you can't do exactly what their doing about playing with perspective cause you don't know anything about the trick their doing,

    it was then i read in a drawing book about point trick perspective, you see you won't get that much information in just using reference, you got to find some tutorials as well, how they draw and how they do it, that's the whole reason why were in this site to begin with, cause we need information of how to draw, if people can just improve so much with just reference then what's the point in this site to begin with?

    you would definitely improve using reference but it might take too much time than you think.


    annnyyyyywaaaaayy!
    for the critique... it's really good now boz!!! I'm really glad your beginning to study folds now! still you should understand more of the movement of the character, it's alright if it's just "folds" but this time it's "clothing physics" you just made you character move a pose so you should be able to understand that you should take consideration of the flow of it,,

    with that said.. have you download that book i gave you yet? note that's it's not meant to be just read.. it's meant to be practiced as well

  3. #103
    Three Trio Tres Member BozeSG's Avatar
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    Well, nobody is going to abandon info, that's a stupid thing to do. and i know some artists use tricks like that but... ahh, i can't explain it well, but i used reference for about three times since when i was drawing and started getting much better in a matter of days, i think it's got something to do with liking the drawings you see, for example, when you see a drawing that seems cool to you, it's much faster and more satisfying and fun to just look at what you like about it and try to copy the things you learned from them in your drawings rather than going to look for tutorials all over the place, and i think that's how most of the famous mangakas did it... well, i'm not really sure of what i just said since im not much of an artist yet so correct me if i'm wrong...

    and for the critique, i really was thinking of the flow when i drew that. can you please give me a more detailed explanation (or maybe just point out the wrong things)...

    i haven't downloaded it yet, i will do it tomorrow or the day after it and then i'll get straight to practice...

    so now it's time for another drawing, i thought i'd have a change of pace so i started attempting to draw mech (or something robot-like atleast), and this is my first attempt on gb (thanks to cype for showing me how to start with it...)


    and this is my second attempt which took me a bit longer... (i know the wheels are really crappy)


    so please C&C (specially the second one), i need it...
    Last edited by BozeSG; 07-19-2011 at 01:17 PM.

  4. #104
    Zeta Members ram's Avatar
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    well i didn't say to completely go for sole tutorials either but with no info it will be really hard.
    i'm just saying use reference and know how it's done as well.

    urrgghh... well fine i'll try to rewrite your drawing again.
    i really hate explaining too much in words, even if do, it won't be that much understood anyway. .

    and for the crit on the mecha.. i hope you know how to use basic shape, cause i feel like you don't

  5. #105
    Three Trio Tres Member BozeSG's Avatar
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    Okay!!!

    dude, you don't have to try so hard, it's ok even if you dont do anything... and even if you want to, a really simple redline will suffice, there's no need to rewrite the whole thing...

    umm, I'm really afraid to ask this: why?

    EDIT: working on hair, face and folds...
    Last edited by BozeSG; 07-19-2011 at 03:33 PM.

  6. #106
    Zeta Members ram's Avatar
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    on second thought i'll rewrite your drawing when i completely master clothing physics, i only got 8 pages to master, didn't count how many the topic is left though. xD
    well it did got me almost a week to master 4 pages but i think it'll be much more easier now that i got the hang of it.

    anyway for the basic shape, i don't mean the sketch, i mean visualize what basic shape should be used, cube or globe yadda yadda
    here's an example
    SPOILER! :





    anyway for the kimono, i know the fabric of kimono and you don't overdo fold in that type of fabric.. just make a slight fold on it,
    i can't explain it that much but i'm pretty much sure there is almost no fold in his right arm

  7. #107
    Senior Member nisaren's Avatar
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    So this is the third time that I've written this post. The first two times, my posts were eaten by a nice "Error 504" code. D:

    I have a few things that I wanted to say. First, I think you have some interesting details for your robots, however, you lack any unifying perspective. This gives them a very flat look... almost Picasso-esque. You really need to take some time to study perspective.

    That being said, I think that the most important thing you could do to better your art is to do studies from real-life or photo references. Tutorials can be a nice way to get your feet wet with some concepts such as perspective, anatomical proportions, composition, etc., but it is not a substitute for doing real-life studies. I would also highly recommend not going and copying other manga art for now, because it will only serve to give you a distorted view of reality. And reality is what we're trying to recreate, even if it will be stylized.

    So I would recommend spending time drawing from life, rather than just rushing to look at various tutorials. For a while, I found myself spending most of my time looking around for tutorials rather than practicing drawing. I was basically looking for a shortcut and after doing this for some time I figured out that there is no shortcut in art.

    So do yourself a favor and draw whatever you see around you. If you find drawing from life boring, then find something interesting to draw. Movie screen captures are usually fairly interesting subjects to draw. It will help you in the long run. I don't know of any professional artist that would tell you to not use reference or study real life subjects. I'm quite sure that most if not all mangaka are also very capable traditional artists as well.

  8. #108
    101 Dalmations Member NWAP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramiel View Post
    well reference won't get you to space though.. xD, it only helps with what detail to put in your drawing
    you won't understand more of the vectors with just that,
    for example: do you know that there are a lot of artist who use a lot of trick in perspective in drawing their background?, i've been studying perspective and realize that most people do that with their background, and if you follow those people you would just get lost with them cause your so much different in skills and you can't do exactly what their doing about playing with perspective cause you don't know anything about the trick their doing,

    it was then i read in a drawing book about point trick perspective, you see you won't get that much information in just using reference, you got to find some tutorials as well, how they draw and how they do it, that's the whole reason why were in this site to begin with, cause we need information of how to draw, if people can just improve so much with just reference then what's the point in this site to begin with?

    you would definitely improve using reference but it might take too much time than you think.


    annnyyyyywaaaaayy!
    for the critique... it's really good now boz!!! I'm really glad your beginning to study folds now! still you should understand more of the movement of the character, it's alright if it's just "folds" but this time it's "clothing physics" you just made you character move a pose so you should be able to understand that you should take consideration of the flow of it,,

    with that said.. have you download that book i gave you yet? note that's it's not meant to be just read.. it's meant to be practiced as well
    Tutorials will teach you the basics of whatever you want to learn. From what I see though...you already HAVE the basics, you just need to fine tune them. I cant stress enough to "focus on the big things first". I see that you have improved in your clothing and folds,and your inking has also improved greatly, but here's the thing....Clothes take shape around the "Body". If the Body/anatomy is off, then the clothing and folds are going to be off :/ . I know you have a lot of different people telling you about a lot different things that your drawings need, and what you should do to get better. All of these things are good to know BUT... don't rush things. Details are important but, its an empty shell if it has no foundation. "Steps" is the key.

    I would also highly recommend not going and copying other manga art for now, because it will only serve to give you a distorted view of reality. And reality is what we're trying to recreate, even if it will be stylized.
    >-> I really really cant agree with this. That is unless you are trying to be something else than a manga artist. Manga is BASED off reality/realism just like anything else...but the truth is...it isn't realism, its an exaggeration (a distorted view) of it. Look at BOTH real life AND manga, but don't confuse the two, realize there is a difference.
    Last edited by NWAP; 07-21-2011 at 06:25 AM.

  9. #109
    Zeta Members ram's Avatar
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    very well said nisaren, i would likely recommend that as well, specially on clothing physics.
    boz do you know that tagyurit created his own tutorial based on what he learned on references? i just commented on it not long ago and just corrected a few stuffs.. it's really hard to just come out of theories out of reference, because a lot of manga-ka out there ignore the anatomy and do anything just to make it look good.. but if you do that it will only confuse you, if you don't know what real anatomy is suppose to be.

    if you know the rules in drawing, only then you can ignore it to make it look good.

    here i just finished correcting your stuffs.
    SPOILER! :


    first i don't really know what the pose of this guy suppose to be so i just do what is the most possible thing i could make..

    now here comes the real thing, hope you pay attention
    on the bottom picture i made a cylinder of some sort, one is turn to the right and one is turn to the left and one is just neutral.
    you can think of this as the basic guidelines for the clothing, if it's turn from the right then the clothing is turn as well. if i remember correctly in anatomy muscles is almost similar to this.(too bad i didn't study it)
    SPOILER! :

    now you should think: what part of the body is being turn? leg? body? arm and so on. and you can make some guidelines on where it should be placed.
    SPOILER! :

    note that i don't do this and don't make some lines before doing it.(it's too much work and i hate too much work)
    so anyway you should take consideration where the tight parts as well and fold are actually affected by that as well.. how you think of how it was affected is up to you.

    other folds are affected by tight parts, and other fold are affected by the movement. the best way to understand this is to look for real life, talk to your friends and ignore what their saying and just focus on what fold their clothes have.(just don't do it to girls or you might be mistaken as a pervert, hey wait! it's much worse if you get mistaken for a pervert from guys)

    anyway hope this helps, i got this info from a drawing book, although it's not the drawing book i gave you.

    i just like to add that folds differ from what type of clothing he/she wearing. leather, plastic yadda yadda. and ofcourse if the shirt is tack-in in what i did here, it's still different if it's not.

    edit:
    well i hope no one disagree with this, i'm going back to practice background again.
    Last edited by ram; 07-21-2011 at 06:47 AM.

  10. #110
    Senior Member nisaren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWAP View Post
    >-> I really really cant agree with this. That is unless you are trying to be something else than a manga artist. Manga is BASED off reality/realism just like anything else...but the truth is...it isn't realism, its an exaggeration (a distorted view) of it. Look at BOTH real life AND manga, but don't confuse the two, realize there is a difference.
    I'm sorry, NWAP, but I feel the same about what you said. I think that saying that is just doing Boze a disservice as well. How can you learn proper anatomy and form from something that is distorted? Everything is based off reality and realism as was mentioned, so in order to understand things to properly "distort" them you need to draw them as they originally exist.

    If you want to look at manga/anime art and do some copies, after you've spent time working from reality and gotten some basics down, that's fine. It can be helpful to see how other people solve certain problems from time to time. But for now, if you really want to improve how you draw and see things, grab a photo, set up a still-life, or go to a drawing session.

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