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Thread: Being Nerd to Being Cool

  1. #11
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    You're making it sound like a run has to improve the world of comics somehow to be considered a run. If that was true jeph loeb would have been executed. Or at least be out of a job.

    films are adaptations made from something big, forgetting the big thing itself and recognizing it's fragments as the original does not make sense to me.
    It makes sense to me. Trying to cram decades of mythology into a 90 minute movie is just bad film-making. Not to mention the restrictions you have on the character due to the nature of comics themselves.

    For one, character development isn't really allowed. If batman suddenly got over the death of his parents, or the punisher was like oh well maybe I am a little crazy, then it has a negative effect on anybody that just wants to jump into a comic and be familiar with what is going on. This sounds insane, but remember that most self-proclaimed comic fans don't read comics. They grew up with the 90's cartoons, which weren't bad at all, but imposed an image of these characters in the minds of children everywhere. Worst of all, it made people thing gambit was cool.

    When making a film that is meant to reach out to these people, you have to adhere to that image. For instance trying to make gambit cool when he clearly isn't.

    For two, films typically need to adapt the stories to a real world setting. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that Spider-man lives in anything that resembles our world with fucking lazer guns and space planes. Comic book logic can still apply, but films don't have years of back comics to pull recognizable ideas from. If you saw Reed Richard's sonic gun thing in a comic it'd be typical. If some dude pulled it out during a movie without explanation it might be kind of weird. And some things in general just don't transfer well to reality. See: that dragonball move or gambit being cool.

    Lastly a comic film is going to be inherently limited for obvious reasons. You can't have Tim Drake just show up in the next Dark Knight without some sort of explanation, and you couldn't pull of something like Batman RIP which pulls all sorts of stuff out of Bman's mythology and history. Superman's Red Son wouldn't work as a film, most likely, without a buttassload of exposition because it assumes that the audience knows too much.

    I think we're getting sidetracked here when really what I'm trying to say is that gambit is just really not cool. You mentioned the films being reduced versions of a greater story. That's what every run is. It's a fragment of a character's mythology. You also mentioned "missing the big thing." What's the big thing? A decades old library of previous movies about the character? That's what doesn't make sense to me.

  2. #12
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    I think Clock is a solipsist and thinks all comic book movies should adhere to him only as only he exists.

  3. #13
    Three Trio Tres Member BozeSG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubeh
    You're making it sound like a run has to improve the world of comics somehow to be considered a run. If that was true jeph loeb would have been executed. Or at least be out of a job.


    It makes sense to me. Trying to cram decades of mythology into a 90 minute movie is just bad film-making. Not to mention the restrictions you have on the character due to the nature of comics themselves.

    For one, character development isn't really allowed. If batman suddenly got over the death of his parents, or the punisher was like oh well maybe I am a little crazy, then it has a negative effect on anybody that just wants to jump into a comic and be familiar with what is going on. This sounds insane, but remember that most self-proclaimed comic fans don't read comics. They grew up with the 90's cartoons, which weren't bad at all, but imposed an image of these characters in the minds of children everywhere. Worst of all, it made people thing gambit was cool.

    When making a film that is meant to reach out to these people, you have to adhere to that image. For instance trying to make gambit cool when he clearly isn't.

    For two, films typically need to adapt the stories to a real world setting. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that Spider-man lives in anything that resembles our world with fucking lazer guns and space planes. Comic book logic can still apply, but films don't have years of back comics to pull recognizable ideas from. If you saw Reed Richard's sonic gun thing in a comic it'd be typical. If some dude pulled it out during a movie without explanation it might be kind of weird. And some things in general just don't transfer well to reality. See: that dragonball move or gambit being cool.

    Lastly a comic film is going to be inherently limited for obvious reasons. You can't have Tim Drake just show up in the next Dark Knight without some sort of explanation, and you couldn't pull of something like Batman RIP which pulls all sorts of stuff out of Bman's mythology and history. Superman's Red Son wouldn't work as a film, most likely, without a buttassload of exposition because it assumes that the audience knows too much.

    I think we're getting sidetracked here when really what I'm trying to say is that gambit is just really not cool. You mentioned the films being reduced versions of a greater story. That's what every run is. It's a fragment of a character's mythology. You also mentioned "missing the big thing." What's the big thing? A decades old library of previous movies about the character? That's what doesn't make sense to me.
    well... can't say you're wrong, all the points you've made make complete sense. i concede to my defeat.(but still, i really can't accept it if films' stories begin to best the comics' in terms of popularity...)

    (also, seriously dude, gambit's going to cry, cut him some slack. at least he looks cool...)

  4. #14
    Sir-Mass-a-Lot Sylux's Avatar
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    Gambit looked like a douchebag. Popularity shouldn't mean anything to you, actually it should excite you. You can school people on the real comic book characters and stories, and they'll probably listen and maybe even read an issue or two. Why are you and Clock so pessimistic about it?

  5. #15
    Fenn
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    I think the real problem here is the semantics of the word "nerd." And when we start arguing the meaning of a title, no one is going to win. Everyone has their own opinion of what a "nerd" is, and there are several different levels of nerd. No one should feel obligated to treat any franchise or form of media in anyway other than the way they want.

    Take a look at Star Wars: The Clone Wars cartoon. From what I see most Star Wars nerds hate the series, b/c it mutilates the canon and seems like a complete sellout. Maybe it is. But I think they're taking it too seriously. If I were a Star Wars buff, I'd look at it and way: "Dude, look at how many lightsaber duels and blaster wars I get to see! What a perfect excuse for me to take in some action scenes in the Star Wars Universe, without worrying about the lore and canon."

  6. #16
    Lord of Death jubeh's Avatar
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    Without getting into defining the word nerd, I can say that the nerds I dislike the most are ones that selfishly cling onto their hobbies and dismiss any movement towards popularity. Not only is it a childish attitude, but it shows blatant disrespect for the creator who might want to actually make some money. It also breeds an unhealthy "Us vs Them" situation, and then people are wearing sweat pants and I don't even know where to begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    If I were a Star Wars buff, I'd look at it and way: "Dude, look at how many lightsaber duels and blaster wars I get to see! What a perfect excuse for me to take in some action scenes in the Star Wars Universe, without worrying about the lore and canon."
    Are you being for real right now.

  7. #17
    Devilish Member Black_Shaggie's Avatar
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    Okay may I interject here for a moment? The comics are one thing & the movies are something else entirely. If you've watched everything from the 1st X-Men to X-Men first class, you can see a consistent continuity there & it's cool. I won't say it's better than any story arc in the comics...but it works for the big screen. Imagine trying to squeeze all of the Uncanny X-men into a few movies?
    Trust me when I say I don't like Hollywood screwing around with my childhood memories...but I don't expect much from the movies because I know how the original story arcs played out. I find this entire pop infatuation with super heroes kind of amusing actually. It's so chic to be nerdy now...but what exactly is nerdy? I mean crap...just because I've played every edition of D&D from Basic to 4.0 doesn't mean I can't hang out with supposed 'cool guys' or that I'll automatically become introverted & socially awkward at parties or the culb does it? No. The truth is people are people and the trends that move our culture reflect people in our society as a whole. What I see as today's trend isn't that being a nerd is cool, but rather people's individualism...being themselves if you will...is becoming more & more excepted. And that's cool. Now if we can just people to stop being so materialistic...

    (Black Shaggie steps off of his soap box.)

    So...that's why Hollywood's making all of these super hero movies & the real reason why most of them aren't as accurate as we'd all like for them to be is there's no way in the Nine Planes of Hell that the movie makers can accomodate us all. So they allways go with the nerfed version & make oodles & oodles of money. This is the reason why I keep all of my comics so I read 'em over & over again.

    I'll will say this...if they ever do a Captain Marvel movie...they'd better NOT call it Shazam & they better get the essence of it right or I'm going to hunt the director down like a cougar hunts small, furry woodland creatures.
    Last edited by Black_Shaggie; 07-22-2011 at 10:24 PM.

  8. #18
    Moderator Psy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    If I were a Star Wars buff, I'd look at it and way: "Dude, look at how many lightsaber duels and blaster wars I get to see! What a perfect excuse for me to take in some action scenes in the Star Wars Universe, without worrying about the lore and canon."
    Just because you can do somthing doesnt mean you should. If this show has nothing to do with the cannon of the series why is it there? Just because is not a reason.

    Nerdy becoming popular is a step in the direction of everyone being on the same social level imo. Tho i dont think you can call it nerdy since nerdy is the opposite of popular. Nerdy hobbies and past times are becoming popular (cant say for sure about the people tho).

  9. #19
    Three Trio Tres Member BozeSG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylux
    Popularity shouldn't mean anything to you, actually it should excite you. You can school people on the real comic book characters and stories, and they'll probably listen and maybe even read an issue or two. Why are you and Clock so pessimistic about it?
    im not really against them becoming popular, i'm just afraid of these kind of reactions:
    If I were a Star Wars buff, I'd look at it and way: "Dude, look at how many lightsaber duels and blaster wars I get to see! What a perfect excuse for me to take in some action scenes in the Star Wars Universe, without worrying about the lore and canon."
    that a normal person may have, which can have the opposite effect and destroy any kind of nerdiness instead of making them popular.

  10. #20
    Palindrome Member ClockHand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Shaggie View Post
    Okay may I interject here for a moment? The comics are one thing & the movies are something else entirely. If you've watched everything from the 1st X-Men to X-Men first class, you can see a consistent continuity there & it's cool. I won't say it's better than any story arc in the comics...
    Are you joking don't you? In the first X-Men movie professor Xavier says that he built Cerebro with the help of Magneto when he was 30. In X-Men: First Class cerebro was built by Beast. Even between movies the universe was raped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Shaggie View Post
    Trust me when I say I don't like Hollywood screwing around with my childhood memories...but I don't expect much from the movies because I know how the original story arcs played out. I find this entire pop infatuation with super heroes kind of amusing actually.
    You know that you can do a movie about X-Men that doesn't work around Wolverine, Cyclop, Magneto, Xavier or any other of the classic X-Men characters. If you understand that X-Men is more that just those characters, that there is a academy, a squad, and social problems, you can easily create new characters inside this universe. What if X-Men film was about students who had to survive the conflicts as bulling and no-love from their parents? and those kids living inside the mansion, meeting the classic X-Men's and developing their own personalities.
    Movies need to do their own homework and not try to copy others works that much, just imagine how would had been the Clockwork Orange of it were exactly as the book.


    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Shaggie View Post
    So...that's why Hollywood's making all of these super hero movies & the real reason why most of them aren't as accurate as we'd all like for them to be is there's no way in the Nine Planes of Hell that the movie makers can accomodate us all. So they allways go with the nerfed version & make oodles & oodles of money. This is the reason why I keep all of my comics so I read 'em over & over again.
    No, the reason is because its sells, and takes to much work and risk to do something by their own. X-Men could be a great HBO serie (because it's impossible to reflect all the conflicts inside the squad in just one movie).

    My problem is not with the people, they don't have the fault, the problem is the medium, not only Hollywood, but also Marvel and DC. They let crappy work to be the seal of their product for the mayor audience. And this audience start believing they know something about comic books just for having watched Wolverine Origins.

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