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Thread: Less effort, more results?

  1. #1
    Fenn
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    Less effort, more results?

    One thing I still cannot understand is how, after 2 hours of work and tons of detail work and perfection of the image, my work would be sketchy (no pun intended) and far from what's in my head. Then I look at some artists online, and while there are of course the uber-detailed scenes that some manga artists create, there are also very simplistic, minimalistic manga images that appear to have been sketched out and inked in half the time, and use far fewer lines than my work, yet are far more refined, clear, and nicer to look at.

    This link (to GunZet's page) shows the first type I explained: http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/...zeticus/page19

    It's filled with crisp, accurate detail, and clearly took a lot of effort.

    Then there's this:


    Ignoring the fact that it's animated, I could not draw that from my head. I CAN'T DRAW THAT! It would be very ugly if I tried, with poor lines and no sense of "cuteness." How does a tiny thumbnail like this convey more emotion and life than my labors of love! This is a very frustrating idea for me...

    Does anyone know how this could be?

  2. #2
    Regular Member apples13's Avatar
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    I think you are looking at only the lines of the drawing instead of the illusion it is trying to create. lines are important but it comes second to the "structure" you want to create. the example you showed although the lines are rough it does its job because you can see the "3dness" of it and its details. consistency is key. it is because of this combination of flatness and 3dness that gives beginners this uneasiness. for example this is something that you see all the time. a drawing of a character with 3d more realistic hair and a face with really flat shading. or a character with shaded limbs and clothes that has shadows that don't make sense that make the clothes look flat.

  3. #3
    Zeta Members ram's Avatar
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    you should start with less detail first before attempting a more detailed work like that..

    practice how to do cardboard boxes first and try to do it in any point of view..
    every structure goes with cardboard boxes first... when you want to draw a city, a gundam or sometimes even a human(i know i did)
    do you know that there are endless possibilities in what you can draw in just one cube?
    you can draw even ball using a cube for guidelines..... it's the basis of all 3dness...

    i agree with apples one should practice to do the "structure" first before the lines...
    and just do with the details....
    of-course you should post your failed attempt....


    edit: if you want a very crisp lines... then you should try other programs that can do that... in paintool sai you can edit the lines there and set the pressure....
    Last edited by ram; 06-28-2011 at 06:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Hamachi's Avatar
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    ^apples13
    ^ramiel

    SO MUCH THIS.

    When starting out we usually focus way too much on the medium. More often than not there's a "Big Picture" sort of element that people miss when they start to focus too much on their details. Yes, you're drawing, but remember that you're working from something very basic upwards. The more conscious you are of how each action contributes (or detracts from) the final picture in your head, the better your final result will be.

    Also. This is where knowledge plays a huge role. Each step has certain realistic limits to what you have to visualize, but to the extent of each of these limits, you have to know exactly what things should look like. This takes study and practice. More often than not, the crappiest drawings I've made usually resulted from careless planning and/or fudging around despite an incomplete knowledge of how things should look.

  5. #5
    999 Knights Member butternut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
    When starting out we usually focus way too much on the medium. More often than not there's a "Big Picture" sort of element that people miss when they start to focus too much on their details. Yes, you're drawing, but remember that you're working from something very basic upwards. The more conscious you are of how each action contributes (or detracts from) the final picture in your head, the better your final result will be.

    Also. This is where knowledge plays a huge role. Each step has certain realistic limits to what you have to visualize, but to the extent of each of these limits, you have to know exactly what things should look like. This takes study and practice. More often than not, the crappiest drawings I've made usually resulted from careless planning and/or fudging around despite an incomplete knowledge of how things should look.
    Could you please explain this with an example?

  6. #6
    Regular Member apples13's Avatar
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    fenn from the art you posted it seems like i was right. for your space images the style is very flat. I am sure you did not picture a flat image in your head. in this case you do not know how to make the world look more spherical or the space rocks/dust more like 3d objects. each material has a different kind of shading process to it so you will need to look into specifically how the illusion is created through references.

  7. #7
    Ruler of the Seventh Empire GunZet's Avatar
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    I feel you on this because It's been an issue of mine for the past few days. But the solution is indeed START SIMPLE. It's the same rule with 3D. Start with a base, block stuff in, then once you have the shape and dimensions you want, start throwing in whatever detail you want and clean stuff up.

    It also takes a ton of practice and just pure expertise sometimes, not to mention personal touch/style so just keep at it.

  8. #8
    Fenn
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    I hate shading

    Which is exactly why I'm going to need to practice it. Thanks for the help, the only downside is it sounds like I'll be drawing friggin cardboard boxed for the next couple weeks. Oh well.

  9. #9
    Regular Member apples13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenn View Post
    I hate shading

    Which is exactly why I'm going to need to practice it. Thanks for the help, the only downside is it sounds like I'll be drawing friggin cardboard boxed for the next couple weeks. Oh well.
    if a cardboard box is the extent of what you think you can visualize in 3d space then i guess you will have to but I think you can advance much quicker that .

  10. #10
    Fenn
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    Quote Originally Posted by apples13 View Post
    if a cardboard box is the extent of what you think you can visualize in 3d space then i guess you will have to but I think you can advance much quicker that .
    Oh...I was just basing it off the suggestions. I'll try more stuff, although it's not going to matter what I draw until I figure out how to shade with a pencil! I've tried crosshatching but I lose the simplicity of the piece and it starts looking as complex as Gunzet's stuff, only ugly...

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