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Sekator
05-31-2011, 06:19 AM
I'm a newbie, contrary to the fact I registered here in december. The thing is simple - tell me if what I've drawn is acceptable. The first time I received ruthless blow in critics on a certain forum, I almost quit drawing... but I figured I won't do much progress without knowing what should I practice, so I'm asking on an english speaking forum, for a change.

So here it is... I actually attempted to design a character for my story, and here's what came out. To be honest this is... my 5th character drawing so far :D

sketch (uncropped lol)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/picture001kr.jpg/
colored version
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/picture01a.jpg/

doghateburger
05-31-2011, 06:43 AM
Hi there Sekator,

There are a lot of things that you need to work on. You art is at an early stage and you require a lot of knowledge before you can design a proper character. First thing is first, Anatomy, probably the biggest pain in art. Look it up, and look for tutorials online, we even have some here on MT. Focus on one thing at a time, that way you won't get overwhelm with practice.

Check it out and keep practicing mate ;D

nisaren
05-31-2011, 08:05 AM
As DHB already said, there's a lot to work on, but it looks good for only your 5th attempt at designing a character. Your prior experience with posting is unfortunate, but it's important to distance yourself from your art emotionally. Being able to step back and take an unbiased and emotionally detached view of what you've done will only help you in the long run. The most important thing you can do right now is to just draw a lot and preferably draw from real life. I know it may sound boring but you will learn much more trying to recreate a 3 dimensional object on paper.

If you really want to improve, attempt to spend 1-2 hours a day minimum drawing various things. After three months you'll notice a huge improvement. I know that I did once I started to put the time in to drawing on a daily basis. Good luck!

The_shaman
05-31-2011, 08:43 AM
You also need a stronger drawing hand, all of your lines are going in one direction. Even in a static pose like that, lines still change direction. You have no line changing direction it either just continues, or breaks off into another line.

Another thing a tip on anatomy, there aren't really any parallels in the human body, or body works as such; curve to straight, for every curve line there is a straight.

Composition tips, remember everything in a composition, even if it is just a simple character follows the rule of large, medium, and small. Its a feel of balance in how we see thing

Mr_D
05-31-2011, 08:48 AM
I agree with doghateburger, but I really recommend that you, next to practising, look at how other people draw. Just search drawing video's or something on youtube. Looking how a good drawing is made from scratch can do wonders ;D


it's important to distance yourself from your art emotionally. That might be a little over the top; as long as you can criticize your own work your fine, but you can be completely happy or unhappy with what you've drawn. I'm just saying so you don't exaggerate ^^

Note from me: Be sure, and this is important, to always keep your head focused on what the hell you're doing. Do not just draw because you have to draw because you have to improve. Draw while knowing what you want to make. Imagine on beforehand what you want to make before you even touch the paper. If you start drawing unplanned, not knowing what to draw and see if something pops out, then that can be very depressing and extremely counter effective. If you start drawing and the only thing you have in mind is that you'll have tons of cool art by the end of the week, you'll probably end up disappointed. If you plan to make one drawing and take time to see what you did right and wrong, that will help you.

This can happen when drawing tends to get really boring and/or frustrating. If so, just take a break from drawing and get your head straight first ^^ Now, as long as you just keep these things in the back of your mind then I'm happy :D Also, don't rely of these comments as if everything said here are rules you have to follow. If you do what you think is best, then it's probably gonna work out fine. Everyone can be wrong at some point...

nisaren
05-31-2011, 10:31 AM
I apologize for hijacking your thread Sekator but I would like to just say a couple more things in response to others in this thread. This is one reason why it's difficult to come to a forum looking for help. You get many conflicting theories and methods for improving. One reason why taking art courses in school is so great is that you have one teacher that gives you instruction. The learning method is uniform and there isn't contradiction and therefore less confusion. Almost everything that has been said has validity depending on the person and at what stage their art is currently sitting.



That might be a little over the top; as long as you can criticize your own work your fine, but you can be completely happy or unhappy with what you've drawn. I'm just saying so you don't exaggerate ^^

I must humbly disagree and stand by what I said earlier. While you can be unhappy or happy with your result, if you don't distance yourself from your work you won't be able to accept criticism properly. If you do so then you shouldn't ever feel like a failure as an artist just because one piece doesn't work.

I also disagree with the thought that you don't need to force yourself to draw. If you want to get better, the only way to do so is to practice drawing a lot. You don't have to be in the "right mood" to do studies or draw from life. Doing studies doesn't require you to be inspired, you just need to do it. In my opinion these are just excuses for not wanting to do something. If you want to get better, you have to draw. Plain and simple. But this, of course, assumes that you want to improve.

Once again sorry for hijacking your thread, but I couldn't hold myself back. :X

doghateburger
05-31-2011, 11:52 AM
You also need a stronger drawing hand, all of your lines are going in one direction. Even in a static pose like that, lines still change direction. You have no line changing direction it either just continues, or breaks off into another line.

There's nothing wrong with straight long lines, as long as you're comfortable with it, its fine. And I do not understand what you mean by "all of your lines are going in one direction", care to justify that? Constantly breaking off your lines lead to an unclean looking sketch, that will probably end up smugging all over the page.


Another thing a tip on anatomy, there aren't really any parallels in the human body, or body works as such; curve to straight, for every curve line there is a straight.

I disagree with this 'tip', if you are referring to real human anatomy, than yes, but if you're referring to drawing styles, I STRONGLY disagree. Cartoon art shouldn't be too detailed on the anatomy, and yet there should be limits in which how distant the realms of reality and art style should be. Only an artist can decide for himself/herself.

Anyways, Sekator, you shouldn't worry to much about these yet, as a beginner, just focus on what you think is the best approach to improve yourself. Just be open to criticism

Zekester014
05-31-2011, 05:19 PM
It seems like nisaren and Mr_D are on way different ends of the spectrum.

It seems to me that considering this is your 5th drawing, you've made progress (as far as I know). the only things that seem to catch my eye are the folds and those straight lines. its ok to do so, just keep in mind, Organic objects and pretty much anything living will have mostly curves; you will almost never see straight lines on a creature unless absolutely necessary. and for the folds, don't worry to much on them just yet, just concentrate on anatomy for now, until you feel you've got the hang of it.

As for the two MT brethren, you can't MAKE yourself draw, but you also can't slack off on it and wait for the "feeling" to hit you. Instead, look for Ideas, think of stuff that you would want to draw, just "for the heck of it". But don't feel bad if you can't find anything you want to draw, you could try drawing other people's characters or scenes to practice. For Criticism, don't distance yourself emotionally from your art; after all, it's your art and you should be proud. BUT! also don't overreact if somebody points out something that's off; They just want to say what you need to work on. How they say it to you is another story. Just accept what they told you and improve yourself on that.

Other than that, you seem to be off to a good start.

Celestial-Fox
05-31-2011, 05:57 PM
Hey, Sekator!! Welcome to MT. :) I see you've already had a taste of how we work in the artist alley--no one really agrees, haha. But we're not arguing all over your thread just to butt heads; we're all friend here and are just trying to give you the best possible advice. <3 So don't feel bad about this one drawing of yours sparking such big discussion. It'll flatten out later. Oh, and the more art you post, the more we can specifically help you on things, so these large, umbrella-term arguments don't happen, haha.

Anyway! My little idea to suggest to you in the middle of this mild disagreement is to do what works best for you. Some artists only operate well under "good moods" and "inspiration," while others have to treat it like a job in order to improve. And trust me, if there was one perfect and inarguable "psychology of an artist," trust me: we'd all know about it and would adopt it. But like other things in life, there are many ways to go about it for different people to get the same results. :)

And actually, you're off to what looks like a really good start. You've got a lot of elements here that many beginners would avoid. For instance, you've got a full-body shot, you drew clothes, didn't forget folds, put good texture into the skirt, scanned the work, and even colored and shaded it. Most people would neglect to do all that, myself included, haha. :D Right now I'd suggest that you work on facial anatomy (accurately proportioning the eyes and other facial features for the best effect possible) and body proportions. The shapes you've got going on in the body--contrary to what Shaman says, I think--are actually quite accurate for the style you're developing. Now you jut need to learn how to size and position each body part in relation to the other. For instance, you might want to watch out of the arms, as one is longer than the other here. The lower legs are too long compared to the length of the thighs, and I would suggest wider shoulders.

Please don't give up art because you've gotten a few bad, and perhaps too-harsh critiques. Sometimes the wrong person comes along and tries to stomp out your excitement, but never let that happen! Throwing away what you enjoy for the sake of a handful of poor-spirited people isn't fair to you, the artist. Always remember that practice makes perfect, and the more you draw, the better you get! :D

The_shaman
05-31-2011, 07:10 PM
There's nothing wrong with straight long lines, as long as you're comfortable with it, its fine. And I do not understand what you mean by "all of your lines are going in one direction", care to justify that? Constantly breaking off your lines lead to an unclean looking sketch, that will probably end up smugging all over the page.

I'm afraid you may have miss understood me just a bit my friend, or the concept of changing the direction of the line. There is a big difference between changing a lines direction and breaking a line. Breaking the line is more or less bot completing a “Design shape” in the drawing, changing the direction does not. First things first, where the artist is breaking the line is at the joints of the leg in the thigh. As far as all lines are heading in the same direction, just follow the form of the figure, the lines doesn’t change direction IF you were to put on a cut similar at the least to the figure, try to make the same pose, and stand in a mirror, you can see what I mean I do believe.



I disagree with this 'tip', if you are referring to real human anatomy, than yes, but if you're referring to drawing styles, I STRONGLY disagree. Cartoon art shouldn't be too detailed on the anatomy, and yet there should be limits in which how distant the realms of reality and art style should be. Only an artist can decide for himself/herself.

Anyways, Sekator, you shouldn't worry to much about these yet, as a beginner, just focus on what you think is the best approach to improve yourself. Just be open to criticism

I agree and disagree here, yes I refer to real anatomy because at the basis, stylization or (cartoon, anime, w/e) is all built off of an understanding of real anatomy. Which is why I mentioned it, but you are correct it is ultimately up to thus artist what and how they wish to create. I simply singled out a little more in the anatomy than just saying “study/practice anatomy.” This comes from a philosophy I have begun to adopt; “of course practicing makes you better, but if you are practicing doing something wrong, than you will only improve at doing it wrong.” Again this is a philosophy I have adapted, I am in no way trying to push this on thus or any other artist, all I can do is offer what I know and capable of doing and it I up to whoever wants to gain from it to gain from it. Just like I also support the philosophy don’t fall in love with your work, and continue to draw, even when you can’t anymore, even when you eat or rest. Is it stressful, yes it is, but it can also be rewarding.



Please don't give up art because you've gotten [b}a few bad, and perhaps too-harsh critiques. Sometimes the wrong person comes along and tries to stomp out your excitement[/b], but never let that happen! Throwing away what you enjoy for the sake of a handful of poor-spirited people isn't fair to you, the artist. Always remember that practice makes perfect, and the more you draw, the better you get! :D
I hope this isn’t in reference to me because I assure you my critique was nothing less than a simple critique. I didn’t print out his work, ball it up and throw it on the ground, I didn’t take his work erase it, redraw it a little than handed it back and told him to finish it. (yes I have had the first one happen to me, Donivan can be cold blooded some times, but that’s what you get when you work with a master. The second one I only heard of an instructor who does this, lol.) My critiques are the way they are because I mean to give more than just a generic “You’re doing good”, or “practice anatomy yadda yadda yadda”. That was stuff I felt was more harmful than helpful as an artist, it was stuff that was given to me and I didn’t progress off of it. I just trying to help develop a way of seeing or understanding that it took who knows how long it took me to start (and still am) developing. So if I’m seen as harsh, poor-spirited, or vicious for it, than I will just have to be that way.

Shamans note @ Sekator; this falls back to CF comment about how a lot of us really can’t agree on philosophes, and don’t really like each other either. Like I know CF and dhb really hates me with a passion and I hate them too! Lol, j/k! Unless you two really don’t like me since I haven’t spoken with either one of you in forever *EVIL STARE*

The best example of this would be Gunz and my philosophy about “how to go about getting and applying references,” but I respect gunz stand on the discussion even if I don’t agree with it.

Sekator
05-31-2011, 07:34 PM
Wasn't expecting so much answers to be honest...

Well, I can say I already tried out many things you people suggested. When I was still suffering after my failures and bashing I got at the picture I posted for critique somewhere else and couldn't take pencil for a long time, the thing I did the most was lurking around tutorials, so I can say I've had enough of them... pretty much.

Watching other people's work... yeah, that one too. I read some webcomics, and also look for tricks to learn in advanced pictures around this site, but I also like to wander around the net and look at the pictures worse than mine. Great way to pump up self-esteem. A bit selfish way, but hey! :D


I must humbly disagree and stand by what I said earlier. While you can be unhappy or happy with your result, if you don't distance yourself from your work you won't be able to accept criticism properly. If you do so then you shouldn't ever feel like a failure as an artist just because one piece doesn't work.
Yeah, but it's kind of a different story when you repeatedly fail several projects instead of breaking one picture. When I suffer this, a phrase inevitably echoes in my head "You fail at drawing".

It seems to me that considering this is your 5th drawing, you've made progress (as far as I know). the only things that seem to catch my eye are the folds and those straight lines.
Cloth folds are my biggest pain in drawing. Even hands and feet are something I can deal with, but folds... I can't understand how to lay them for the heck - here I was laying them blindly. And don't even get me started about the tutorials please... I've read a LOT of them about folds, and still can't get it no matter what.

As for the straight lines, I was aware limbs are not supposed to be like this... but any attempts to fix that have ended with failure. I've erased and redrawn them several times, trying to curve these lines realistically, but all my efforts to do so resulted in whole thing looking like garbage, so I've given up and left it as it is. Seems fixing it was too much for me this time.

For instance, you might want to watch out of the arms, as one is longer than the other here. The lower legs are too long compared to the length of the thighs, and I would suggest wider shoulders.
I usually don't make such mistakes as the one with arms but... check the picture - you see that bulky thing on her left (right in the picture) wrist? I think that's the reason I messed it up. I was thinking about it all the time while drawing arms. As for the shoulders, I can't see what's wrong with them. Seems right to me.

Well... the problem is I actually don't know how to practice. Everywhere I ask, I hear "draw systematically". Draw what?! Other people's pictures? My own characters? Other people's characters in different poses? Unanimate objects? Portraits? Specific sections of characters? Items? Real life objects?

Oh, and speaking of which... I can do imo very good sketches of objects from real life (didn't try whole sceneries) but I absolutely despise it - that's not how I like drawing. The whole magic in this art for me is the possibility to CREATE, not RECREATE - to put into existence something from imagination. Recreating objects from my sight is just plain boring, stupid and I hate it... not to mention it doesn't have anything in common with my target style.

The style I'm attempting to achieve is as "clean" as possible without too much detail. That's how much I know at the moment.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I gotta say mangatutorials is far more friendly than the forum I visited earlier... which kinda puts my country to a shame :/ Here at least I got some suggestions with the critique, whereas the first time the only thing I heard was in short "This sucks, that sucks, everything is crap. I'm not telling this to offend you, it's pure truth. You got your critique. Happy?"

Celestial-Fox
05-31-2011, 07:40 PM
You don't know how to practice? Well! That's the easy part. :) If you can copy things well, just try to find as many references as possible. Then you can take certain parts of those references and put them into a new picture which is entirely your own. To get good practice on drawing from imagination, try doing a life drawing, then looking at that life drawing try to draw it again in your own style (not realism). The things that you are concerned about will usually resolve themselves if you keep drawing--and it doesn't matter what kind of drawing you do to get to that point.

Also, if you're ever stumped, Posemaniacs.com has a ton of great references to use. :)

The_shaman
05-31-2011, 08:13 PM
Please understand you don’t cross the learning curve over night. It takes both study and practice; there are people who actually make money off their work and still climbing the learning curve. Everyone on this site is simply at different levels of the learning and it actually takes years to overcome it.





Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I gotta say mangatutorials is far more friendly than the forum I visited earlier... which kinda puts my country to a shame :/ Here at least I got some suggestions with the critique, whereas the first time the only thing I heard was in short "This sucks, that sucks, everything is crap. I'm not telling this to offend you, it's pure truth. You got your critique. Happy?"
Where was this site, the people here are more open with others art, a lot of other sites are not. Depending where you were, the mindset of the people or artist there are completely different from what you were expecting. Also I would like to see some of your still life and life drawing.




I usually don't make such mistakes as the one with arms but... check the picture - you see that bulky thing on her left (right in the picture) wrist? I think that's the reason I messed it up. I was thinking about it all the time while drawing arms. As for the shoulders, I can't see what's wrong with them. Seems right to me.

Well... the problem is I actually don't know how to practice. Everywhere I ask, I hear "draw systematically". Draw what?! Other people's pictures? My own characters? Other people's characters in different poses? Unanimate objects? Portraits? Specific sections of characters? Items? Real life objects?

The questions you ask are things that usually aren’t answered in most critics here. How you practice actually understands how to see. The human figure in generally is a organic shape, our muscles wrap around our skeleton, bend and twist into each other. In Italia artist draw “In the round recreating what our body do.
Bridgemen’s work
http://pwlawrence.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/bridgeman_figure.jpg
http://onajii.com/a_sketches/bridgeman_14.jpg

Can’t find any of normal Rockwell figures right now. So here’s donivan howard
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk6/synnworld/800x1085.jpg

Vilppu
http://thecafeteria.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/58.jpg

my point is, it is these people works I suggest you study, to improve, but understand where I am coming from and the direction I will have you take leads to a different world than where others on this site would go. And before anyone yells it is, this is no insult to anyone here or anyone who tries to help you, it’s just reality.

Distorted_Dirk
05-31-2011, 08:20 PM
are people arguing? lol
the drawing is pretty good. keep up the good work and practice, practice, practice.

doghateburger
05-31-2011, 11:42 PM
What CF said, practice in art is similar to practice in about everything else, repetition, repetition, and repetition. Find a good reference, from real life preferably, and constantly draw it, until its stuck in your head.

If you don't know what practice looks like, heres one of mine own personal practice scrap xD
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/phantomking/practice199.jpg

If you need any books, I suggest BRIDGMANS - Complete Guide to Drawing from Life. Check it out, its good ;D

CypressDahlia
06-01-2011, 03:42 AM
Visit the Groupboard sometime and I (or one of our other regular artists) can point you in the right direction as far as proportions go.

Also, don't listen to the_shaman. He is a protoplasm of drawing skill and you don't want to follow "in his direction", lest you be stuck in a quagmire of sub-mediocrity for the next three years. Just being 'real' here.