PDA

View Full Version : The Greatest Mangakas



BozeSG
05-30-2011, 06:44 AM
I can't believe there weren't any threads like this yet...

I think Oh! Great ,Yukimura Makoto, Tsutomu Nihei and Naoki Urasawa are great candidates...

EDIT: since the point of this thread is completely vague (sorry, my bad), i'm going to add this here:

the thing we're doing here, is to nominate mangakas who can be described as successful, now being successful here means that they were able to develop a manga or two that can be widely recognized as a great success in their own field (eg. all the people in the current list.) and discuss the reasons they were able to do this, like what they did, how did they go about doing it, what got them started, etc. in other words, people who were able to achieve their aim completely, something that (supposedly) all of us want to do. and before you ask, no, achieving an aim of doing a two page manga with blank panels is not called success...

Hayashida
05-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Osamu Tezuka definitely.

Evil_Cake
05-30-2011, 02:05 PM
my favorites are Norihiro Yagi - for angel densetsu and claymore

and Hirohiko Araki for jojo

neogenstru
05-30-2011, 02:07 PM
Eiichiro Oda and Kentaro Miura..nuff said

jubeh
05-30-2011, 05:38 PM
I've gotten into tezuka pretty hard.

Rio
05-30-2011, 05:42 PM
Which of his works are you reading? I like his Black Jack and Phoenix series. I haven't had a chance to read any others.

jubeh
05-30-2011, 06:50 PM
Read buddha and blackjack

LVUER
05-31-2011, 02:00 AM
Ken Akamatsu and Kami Imai.

Matt
05-31-2011, 08:44 AM
@BoseSG - Oh! Great has some of the best art I've ever seen, but I can't say the same for his writing.

I'd have to put Yabuki Kentaro in here too. Black Cat remains one of my favorite mangas of all time. While I'm at it, how about Watsuki as well? (Rurouni Kenshin)

BozeSG
05-31-2011, 02:13 PM
@Matt: yeah, i agree that his stories are not the best, but he did bring in one of the most unique plots in existence and he created something really memorable. i personally like him because of all the imaginative metaphors....
So i'm going to make a list(in no particular order):
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)

I'm not sure about these guys:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)

If you think any of these people deserve to called one of the greatest mangakas or if you think any of the ones on the list do not deserve to be there, say it (and give reasons). i'm thinking since we're trying to draw manga, we ought to make a list of people who were successful in doing it so we know who they were and get familiar with how they made their mangas awesome...

Btw, what about Hiroki Endo?

LVUER
06-01-2011, 11:04 PM
I don't think Tsutomu Nihei and Eichiro Oda deserved to be called the greatest mangaka. If Ken Akamatsu is still not great enough, I don't think those two people could be on the list. Berserk is a great manga (one of my favorite), but seeing how things developed, I don't think Miura could be called professional (because his attitude sucks). That's why I object to see his name on the list.

One name to be added to the list: Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed).

ram
06-02-2011, 11:03 AM
I like yabuki kentaro.. but there are a lot of artist out there...

yabuki kentaro was the one who made black cat, mayoi neko (which came from visual novel illustrated by peco) and to-love ru

i noticed that yabuki kentaro is ignoring the rules of how to draw manga when he's making to-love ru... but it still looks awesome!
that's why you'll notice in to-love ru darkness that his drawings changed because now he's using the right rules now... but either way he's awesome specially in black cat

BozeSG
06-02-2011, 04:37 PM
Eiichiro Oda without a doubt can be described as one of the greatest mangakas, having written a series spanning more than 620 chaps up until now and still being the best selling manga ever proves that well enough so i won't agree with that...
Tsutomu Nihei made one of the most revolutionary styles of manga in existence and his works deserve to be called as great as any other professional mangas... (if you think that it's not revolutionary, then say so)
Attitude doesn't change the manga's quality so miura stays too...
Masamune Shirow is good enough so he's going to be added, yabuki kentaro is added as well(he's probably a god for moe lovers right now, and black was okay.) and i' still not sure for akamatsu ken, need more reasons (and please don't compare mangakas with each other, just say why do you think they deserve to be called great)

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)

Bacon_Barbarian
06-02-2011, 07:32 PM
No one's mentioned Toruiyama?

Yeah, I'd say Oda (One Piece), Toriyama (Dragonball), and Otomo (AKIRA).

jubeh
06-02-2011, 11:23 PM
Oda is brilliant and I wish he'd do another comic just so we could see if One Piece is all he has in him or what. The thing is that he's a master of continuity so anything short of an infinitely long series wouldn't really show off what makes him so great.

Bacon_Barbarian
06-03-2011, 12:02 AM
It would be neat to see him do another series, but I think when OP finishes, he'll go the route of Toriyama. There's certainly no way that Oda, amazing as he is could do two series at once. I do sort of think OP may have all he has in him. Hasn't he recently stated he's only about half way done?

BozeSG
06-03-2011, 01:38 AM
Toriyama and Otomo added...

Oda said it himself that one piece will be his last work and he won't do anything afterwards, i won't blame him, he's freaking rich now and he'll probably die before he finishes OP...

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)

jubeh
06-03-2011, 01:43 AM
If you're going to include araki you should at least add buronson/tetsuo hara. Araki was a hara ripoff before he started developing his own style during the middle of part 4. And buronson is better at writing even though he obviously makes stuff up as he goes along.

Not that araki's bad or anything.

LVUER
06-03-2011, 06:08 AM
Fujiko F. Fujio (Doreamon). Who don't know that cute blue cat robot? And not only Doraemon, he created lots of good manga and they all are popular too... though not as popular as Doraemon (P-man, Q-Taro, Hattori the Ninja).

And Hiro Mashima. He is the creator of Rave (or Rave Master in US) and Fairy Tail. He just create 2 manga series (still young in both age and time spent as mangaka) but both his manga sells like a hotcake. He won Newcomer Award for Rave and he's one of the youngest person to ever receive that (so I think that quite an achievement). And as you can see from his drawing, his drawing becomes good very fast (his drawing was really bad at Rave vol.1).



About Miura Kentaro. If we're talking about "the greatest manga" then I won't object if his name is on the list because Berserk is a very good manga. But as a mangaka, I don't think he's a very good example. Berserk hasn't still finished yet, and I doubt it will ever be (the latest volume is all just spoiler, yeah, spoiler in manga), furthermore the reason why he go hiatus is simply absurd...

The same with Yukiru Sugisaki, the creator of DN Angel and Lagoon Engine. Though her manga is good (I don't think if they could be called as great), but they are good, definitely... the problem is, again, her attitude as mangaka. She is famous for jumping from one manga to other, leaving most of her manga unfinished... and most seems will be unfinished forever.

Remember that mangaka depends a lot to his/her fans. Fans want their beloved manga to be finished. So a great mangaka should finished at least his/her own manga. A different story is the said person went dead, since no one could go against such natural things.

LuffyisGod11
06-03-2011, 09:13 AM
yes.

LuffyisGod11
06-03-2011, 09:14 AM
Toriyama and Otomo added...

Oda said it himself that one piece will be his last work and he won't do anything afterwards, i won't blame him, he's freaking rich now and he'll probably die before he finishes OP...

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)

gunz blaze west was great he could of added more to it but it was still good.

LuffyisGod11
06-03-2011, 09:21 AM
oda,nobuhiro,tezuka(you know already),toriyama,katsuhiro,inoue(slam dunk),kishimoto,katsuhiro,arakawa,and akatsuki(godfather of gag manga),plus tie kubo but im not sure yet.big shonen fan.

BozeSG
06-03-2011, 12:44 PM
Hara Tetsuo, Fujiko Fujio, Hiro Mashima, Takehiko Inoue added.

@LVUER: Agreed, but again, berserk is really such a good manga... i think i'll keep him there until more people diagree with it...

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo

jubeh
06-03-2011, 02:07 PM
Luffyisgod11 do not triple post. If you have more to say edit a previous post. While you are at it dont make any more threads in the manga works.

Bacon_Barbarian
06-03-2011, 02:31 PM
And Hiro Mashima. He is the creator of Rave (or Rave Master in US) and Fairy Tail. He just create 2 manga series (still young in both age and time spent as mangaka) but both his manga sells like a hotcake. He won Newcomer Award for Rave and he's one of the youngest person to ever receive that (so I think that quite an achievement). And as you can see from his drawing, his drawing becomes good very fast (his drawing was really bad at Rave vol.1).
Mashima just ripped off of One Piece. He doesn't deserve anything. I can't understand why he's pipular in Japan and the reason he's big in America is because OP isn't nearly as popular here.

Im also tempted to say that Kazuki Takahashi (ORIGINAL Yugioh) belongs on here, but he isn't really much better then Kubo. So maybe he could go on the not sure list?

EDIT: Oh, and Ohba and Obata. Death Note was groundbreaking, while Obata is just a good artist. Just look at Hikaru no Go.

Matt
06-03-2011, 03:35 PM
I like yabuki kentaro.. but there are a lot of artist out there...

yabuki kentaro was the one who made black cat, mayoi neko (which came from visual novel illustrated by peco) and to-love ru

i noticed that yabuki kentaro is ignoring the rules of how to draw manga when he's making to-love ru... but it still looks awesome!
that's why you'll notice in to-love ru darkness that his drawings changed because now he's using the right rules now... but either way he's awesome specially in black cat

Just curious, what did Kentaro do against the rules in the original TLR? For that matter, what rules of manga are you thinking of (I don't believe I've heard them before)? I just started TLR Darkness a minute ago (literally), and I don't see much of a difference . . . okay, yes I do. Just got to page 12 on Mangafox. I don't recall the original series being almost completely uncensored. (How OLD is Momo, anyway?) Well, I know this one's never gonna be licensed in America.

Main question: What are the rules of manga?

BozeSG
06-03-2011, 04:20 PM
Mashima just ripped off of One Piece. He doesn't deserve anything. I can't understand why he's pipular in Japan and the reason he's big in America is because OP isn't nearly as popular here.
Nope, Hiro had his debut in almost the same time as oda so i guess they're rather like rivals, their art is similar only because they both were influenced by dragon ball when they were kids. personally, i like hiro's art more, and he he had the courage to actually finish a great series and move on to another one, something we won't ever see oda doing until his last breath... and OP is not famous in US for a single reason which i'm amzed you don't know about, 4KIDS DUB!!!!!

Just read a little further. I like that they're actually coming right out and SAYING that the girls are trying to give the male lead a harem. Still doesn't make the genre any better. Black Cat's storyline was far superior, even if TLR's girls are hotter.TLR is not written by Yabuki himself...

Added Takeshi Obata.

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)
- Obata Takeshi (Hikaru no Go, Death Note, Bakuman)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo
- Kazuki Takahashi

Bacon_Barbarian
06-03-2011, 08:31 PM
Nope, Hiro had his debut in almost the same time as oda so i guess they're rather like rivals, their art is similar only because they both were influenced by dragon ball when they were kids. personally, i like hiro's art more, and he he had the courage to actually finish a great series and move on to another one, something we won't ever see oda doing until his last breath
Yeah, because he isn't half way done. Does anybody actually care? No. It's still the biggest manga in Japan.


And OP is not famous in US for a single reason which i'm amzed you don't know about, 4KIDS DUB!!!!!
I know about the 4Kids dub, and honestly, it has nothing to do with it's lack of popularity. While it wasn't great looking back on it as a fan of the manga, it did introduce to people who would never have seen it otherwise.

LVUER
06-03-2011, 08:33 PM
I don't see any resemblances between Rave and One Piece? They have different power (ten commandment/darkbring VS devils fruit), different story, different characters, different backgrounds... everything is different. I read both Rave and One Piece and I don't think Rave rip-off anything from One Piece?

Speaking about ripping-off though, I'm more surprised that no one realized that Ar Tonelico 1 (video game by Gust and Banpresto) rip-off almost everything from Erementar Gerad.

Having a similar art style is very common in manga field. Besides, no one complains about that (in anime world, everyone share similar style or even will change style when need arise). If two person become assistant for one same person, it's very normal if both that person have similar style when they finally debut as mangaka. Though later, most person will eventually develop their own style.

Bacon_Barbarian
06-03-2011, 09:29 PM
Look at The Big Three, Dragon Ball Z, Death Note, Shaman King, and YYH. None of them look similar. Look at OP and look at Fairy Tail, they both draw humans in the exact same way.

LVUER
06-03-2011, 10:14 PM
I don't see the similarities. Oda draws women hip really thin (almost no existent) while Hiro doesn't.

And just like I said before, similar drawing style is not a problem.

BozeSG
06-04-2011, 02:40 AM
That's right, even if we want to take drawing style into consideration, mashima's style is still different, his drawing are more realistic and they follow anatomy rules more compared to oda's, but that very small resemblance that remains, like i said before, is only because of their influence from dragon ball....

Bacon_Barbarian
06-04-2011, 04:40 AM
Sure they are ...

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u126/Lexeaus/Funny%20STuff/1278814153609.jpg

LVUER
06-04-2011, 05:22 AM
That's Fairy Tail, not Rave. And it's not about art-style, looking from the picture you attach here. Still, it's ridiculous to claim Mishima ripping-off (everything, you claim so) from One Piece just because they share a bit of similarities.

If only that you already called them a rip-off, then everything in this world is rip-off from something else too...

Byakuran
06-06-2011, 12:55 AM
Can't see pictures and...

Sorachi Hideaki....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4sskVhyQU&playnext=1&list=PLE978097FC174DB55
Whats he saying and going on:
Text: Sorachi's Self Rambling
" Using a fountain pens is a pain.
Drawing background is a pain, too.
Drawing a manga is really a pain, seriously.
And really, living itself is a pain.

I want to become a cheesburger.."

These are true words of a artist man.

BozeSG
06-06-2011, 01:14 PM
As for mashima, i'm going to keep him there because he's the only artist who was ever capable of drawing 65 pages (with three colours) in a week while playing Red Dead Redemption with a dictionary...

The truest artist in existence added...

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)
- Obata Takeshi (Hikaru no Go, Death Note, Bakuman)
- Sorachi Hideaki (Gintama)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo
- Kazuki Takahashi

GunZet
06-09-2011, 06:02 PM
Oh! Great, for Tenjou Tenge
and Hyung Min-woo, for Priest (although Priest is a manhwa, not manga...but whatever)

M3S1H
06-12-2011, 03:04 PM
I think I'll have to say Go Nagai. He made about 40 or so mangas, the best being Devilman, which has an amazing plot twist. There were about 30 mangas that were created based off of Go Nagai and his work. I think it's unbelievable that he created this much. I wish to one day be able to create as much mangas as Go Nagai. He was truly amazing.

Kokoro_Hane
06-21-2011, 09:02 PM
I think CLAMP is one of the greatest. I just love how beautiful and elegant, not to mention crisp and clean, their artwork is! Especially their color illustrations! I admire their artwork so much, as well as amazing storytelling talent (even though they don't always have the happiest of the endings >.>) I have to admit, I'll find myself staring at one illustration or one panel for long periods of time just to analyze how beautifully drawn it was!

LVUER
06-21-2011, 10:05 PM
Ugh yeah, how could we forget about CLAMP? Starts off as doujin circle and pave their way as professional manga team. Their manga always set a new trend in manga industry and all of them sells like a hot cake. Definitely must be on the list ^_^

BozeSG
06-26-2011, 06:14 AM
Oh, i cant believe i forgot clamp: (clamp and go nagai added):
List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)
- Obata Takeshi (Hikaru no Go, Death Note, Bakuman)
- Sorachi Hideaki (Gintama)
- CLAMP (X/1999, xxxHolic, Tsubasa Resrvior Chronicles, Chobits and etc.)
- Go Nagai (Cutie Honey, Devilman, Mazinger Z, etc.)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo
- Kazuki Takahashi
- Hyung Min-woo

LVUER
06-26-2011, 07:57 PM
And how could I forget about this one too, Tsukasa Hojo. He created some manga (Cat's Eye, Family Compo, Angel Heart), but his only notable (and very famous) manga is City Hunter. His drawing is very good and unique, not many could draw like that. And he's also have a good sense of humor.

J_Mizu
06-27-2011, 03:08 AM
hmmm I'd saaaay, Inoue Takehito.
If you look at his recent work and the later chapters of Slam Dunk, you'd learn a lot from his use of panels. The story just flows as if you're watching it in real life.

Art wise, I'd also say Takeshi Obata, although I cant really say anything about the current stories the team has been working on. Bakuman really has been dragging lately

LVUER
06-27-2011, 04:11 AM
Both Inoue Takehito and Takeshi Obata is already on the list. Please read it first, the list is spread everywhere in this thread... In fact, it's just two post before yours ^_^

Jingshen
06-28-2011, 05:20 AM
No one has mentioned Seo Kouji? I think he is great, his artwork is nice and his stories are also good, he one of the only two mangakas in which I have read more than one of their works, the other one being Yabuki Kentaro, but he has already been mentioned.

BozeSG
06-30-2011, 04:21 PM
suzuka and crossover? they're pretty good titles but i'm still not sure about it, can you tell me something that proves as being one of the best ever?

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)
- Obata Takeshi (Hikaru no Go, Death Note, Bakuman)
- Sorachi Hideaki (Gintama)
- CLAMP (X/1999, xxxHolic, Tsubasa Resrvior Chronicles, Chobits and etc.)
- Go Nagai (Cutie Honey, Devilman, Mazinger Z, etc.)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo
- Kazuki Takahashi
- Hyung Min-woo
- Seo Kouji

LVUER
07-01-2011, 12:33 AM
How about Tsukasa Hojo?

Arashi500
07-03-2011, 07:30 AM
I'd say Kohta Hirano for the amazing art style of Hellsing (although it doesn't start until the third volume) and Drifters.

BozeSG
07-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Tsukasa Hojo accepted, Hellsing is certainly a very good manga, but i dont know if that makes him as one of the "best ever" or not (i'm not really sure so further persuasion is required)...
im thinking about kubo and kishimoto, they certainly have made good mangas and they have a fair share of popularity around the world, wont that make them a part of the most successful mangakas ever existed?

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)
- Obata Takeshi (Hikaru no Go, Death Note, Bakuman)
- Sorachi Hideaki (Gintama)
- CLAMP (X/1999, xxxHolic, Tsubasa Resrvior Chronicles, Chobits and etc.)
- Go Nagai (Cutie Honey, Devilman, Mazinger Z, etc.)
- Hojo Tsukasa (Cat's Eye, City Hunter, Angel Heart)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Yabuki Kentaro
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo
- Kazuki Takahashi
- Hyung Min-woo
- Seo Kouji
- Hirano Kohta

ClockHand
07-11-2011, 05:58 PM
Eiichiro Oda is great, but I think he need to do more works before be named a great mangaka.
CLAMP, I know everyone loves it, but many of their works are bad. For my this is a team who knows how to sell, but its not constant in doing good stories.
The same with Obata Takeshi, he is great, but he is not constant. And Yabuki Kentaro also fails to be part of the greatest.

I'm not saying those are bad, but not greatest.

Also that list needs: Shigeru Mizuki and Hayao Miyazaki (and of course there are other mangakas who need to be there, but those are extremely important).

Matt
07-11-2011, 07:24 PM
Yabuki's art is among the greatest, but I find it sad that he hasn't written any of his own stories since Black Cat. It definitely shows. TLR and Mayoi Neko were many steps down, even if the art was better. Most notably, look at the shift of protagonists. Rito is uninteresting, and the Mayoi Neko hero is so boring that I even forgot his name. Yes, TLR Darkness gets better, and is one of the first harem mangas to come out and actually "be" a harem manga instead of tying the hero to one girl who everyone knew he was gonna get with since the beginning. The outcome is still obvious, but it's a step in the right direction.

Personally, I'd say Yabuki qualifies just with Black Cat. The beginning was a little shaky; he obviously didn't know exactly where he was going with Train as a character to begin with. Beyond that, though, it sets a good tone and sticks to it. It's definitely one of the best pure shonen mangas out there, standing along side One Piece, Dragonball, etc. And it's shorter than either of them. I don't have a problem with long-running manga, but there comes a point when new readers just can't get into it due to length. I quit reading the three big ones (Naruto, Bleach, One Piece) because they were getting boring to me. Yes, HSDK is the same, but at least I can relate to the main character. That makes a bigger difference than you'd think.

/Defense of favorite artist over.

He's not my favorite mangaka (that award goes to Syun Matsuena [HSDK]), but he and Tony Taka are by far my favorite artists.

BozeSG
07-11-2011, 07:39 PM
Eiichiro Oda is great, but I think he need to do more works before be named a great mangaka.
that's the reason i havent included masashi kishimoto and tite kubo, but oda has got a series that has been running for about 15 years and it's the best selling manga of all time (best selling japanese product in future probably) and oda himself has said that one piece will be his only work anyway. if creating the most successful manga in the history doesn't make you the best, then what does?


CLAMP, I know everyone loves it, but many of their works are bad. For my this is a team who knows how to sell, but its not constant in doing good stories.
while not being a very great fan of clamp myself, i can say that X's story was quite well written and there's nothing that can beat the "feeling" that clamp gave to xxxholic. and i dont really think creating awesome things at a constant rate can make you great, you just have to prove that you're capable of doing it.


The same with Obata Takeshi, he is great, but he is not constant. And Yabuki Kentaro also fails to be part of the greatest.i kinda agree with obata, his art is good and he can create awesome characters but he doesn't really have any original stories for himself. yabuki kentaro is added because he's a holy existence to all moe-lovers...

Agreed with Shigeru Mizuki, but miyazaki Hayao is mainly famous more because of animating and directing, he kind of gave up on manga so he didn't do much for mangas...



Personally, I'd say Yabuki qualifies just with Black Cat. The beginning was a little shaky; he obviously didn't know exactly where he was going with Train as a character to begin with. Beyond that, though, it sets a good tone and sticks to it. It's definitely one of the best pure shonen mangas out there, standing along side One Piece, Dragonball, etc. And it's shorter than either of them. I don't have a problem with long-running manga, but there comes a point when new readers just can't get into it due to length.i don't think so, the art was kinda cool but the story didn't have anything special, the characters were great but they just didn't get the same kind of development and background as the other mangas (only the little girl did) and the villains were generally quite typical, the ending was one hell of a disappointment too. don't get me wrong, i think black cat was awesome and it certainly was unique, but just not that much... it's the same with hiroyuki taeki (though shaman king was a bit better than black cat IMO)



List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)
- Obata Takeshi (Hikaru no Go, Death Note, Bakuman)
- Sorachi Hideaki (Gintama)
- CLAMP (X/1999, xxxHolic, Tsubasa Resrvior Chronicles, Chobits and etc.)
- Go Nagai (Cutie Honey, Devilman, Mazinger Z, etc.)
- Hojo Tsukasa (Cat's Eye, City Hunter, Angel Heart)
- Mizuki Shigeru (GeGeGe no Kitaro)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo
- Kazuki Takahashi
- Hyung Min-woo
- Seo Kouji
- Hirano Kohta

ClockHand
07-11-2011, 07:45 PM
Miyazaki also did some mangas, Nausicaa was firstly a manga than a animation. And yeah he didn't work to much on mangas, but if it wasn't for him the industry of anime and manga would be totally different.

For my the constance is a factor to determinate a great mangaka, because if you don't do that, it would be like judging Shyamalan for only one movie.

BozeSG
07-11-2011, 08:17 PM
I know, but no matter how many impressions he left on the industry, he did it with movies. that makes him a very good and awesome director and animator, not a mangaka...

that's what i'm talking about here, shyamalan failed to show himself to be capable of staying as a good artist, he started good but he went down afterwards. i would've agreed with you if clamp was the same, but it's not like that, clamp still manges to do great mangas, there's just some failures in between them (which ofcourse, are not that horrible, they're "normal")...

LVUER
07-11-2011, 10:38 PM
Another name, how could I forget about this one too, Kōsuke Fujishima. His prominent work is "Oh My Goddess!" (Aa! Megami-sama). He doesn't make too many manga (perhaps only two or three) but one of his manga is enough to make him (very) famous. Though right now he spend most of his time as character designer for many famous games like Sakura War series and Tales series.

Arashi500
07-12-2011, 09:38 PM
Yeah I agree. Ah! My Goddess is a pretty influential piece in the seinen area.

ram
07-13-2011, 05:04 AM
i don't think so, the art was kinda cool but the story didn't have anything special, the characters were great but they just didn't get the same kind of development and background as the other mangas (only the little girl did) and the villains were generally quite typical, the ending was one hell of a disappointment too. don't get me wrong, i think black cat was awesome and it certainly was unique, but just not that much... it's the same with hiroyuki taeki (though shaman king was a bit better than black cat IMO)

yeah i agree... black cat is really amazing but the details about the characters is a left down somehow... and it got a little corny when it's about to reach it's ending.. not to mention the villains motive of doing bad things is not that convincing.. :(
but it still better than most manga i seen so far... and i really like black cat for it's unique way of doing a story,, specially it's way of thinking of what power should a person has...

the only reason that this debate is going on is because one people would only see the good side of the manga while the other one would only see the bad side of the manga...

one day we will all have to face something like this on our way of making a comic/manga or novel that sells.

JessterScar
07-16-2011, 06:26 PM
I like Eiichiro Oda's art and also Kaori Yuki's. Oda's is very detailed.

CypressDahlia
07-17-2011, 01:35 AM
i'd like to recommend evil_cake

ram
07-17-2011, 02:29 AM
i'd like to recommend evil_cake

yeah i vote for evil_cake as well xD
nice story! you guys should read his work heaven

BozeSG
07-17-2011, 02:50 AM
evil-cake added -_-

List:
- Tezuka Osamu (Astro Boy, Black Jack, Phoenix, Red Buddha, etc.)
- Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!, Biomega)
- Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boys)
- Hirohiko Araki (JoJo's Bizarre adventure)
- Eiichiro Oda (One Piece)
- Miura Kentaro (Berserk)
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)
- Yabuki Kentaro (Black Cat, To Love-Ru)
- Akira Toriyama (Dragon Ball)
- Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira)
- Hara Tetsuo (Fist of the North Star)
- Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon)
- Hiro Mashima (Rave Master, Fairy Tail)
- Inoue Takehiko (Slam Dunk, Vagabond)
- Obata Takeshi (Hikaru no Go, Death Note, Bakuman)
- Sorachi Hideaki (Gintama)
- CLAMP (X/1999, xxxHolic, Tsubasa Resrvior Chronicles, Chobits and etc.)
- Go Nagai (Cutie Honey, Devilman, Mazinger Z, etc.)
- Hojo Tsukasa (Cat's Eye, City Hunter, Angel Heart)
- Mizuki Shigeru (GeGeGe no Kitaro)
- Evil_cake (Heaven)

Not sure:
- Oh! Great
- Yukimura Makoto
- Norihiro Yagi
- Akamatsu Ken
- Imai Kami
- Watsuki Nobuhiro (rorouni kenshin was a masterpiece, but he didn't do great in his next works which decreases his value as an artist IMO)
- Masashi Kishimoto
- Tite Kubo
- Kazuki Takahashi
- Hyung Min-woo
- Seo Kouji
- Hirano Kohta

Evil_Cake
07-19-2011, 08:08 PM
lol how sweet XD

LVUER
07-20-2011, 02:33 AM
Seriously? o_O Now I'm beginning to doubt the validity of this list.

ram
07-20-2011, 11:23 AM
were family here so ofcourse we will pick someone of our family.
if your mother told you who is cuter some sexy actress or her, ofcourse you will pick your mother. xD
well that being said i recomend Evil_cake cause i really liked did his manga.
:monkey_question: wait a second, heaven is a comic, so that makes him comic artist right? does that make any difference?

ClockHand
07-20-2011, 01:16 PM
Comic and Mangas are the same thing.

Both are made on paper, have letters, character, scenes, etc. No difference at all.

Also, would you fuck your mom?!

ram
07-20-2011, 07:36 PM
no i won't, ofcourse i would go for sexy actress:cat_wahaha:
but careful with your words clockhand, someone might report you, well it won't be me anyway

ClockHand
07-20-2011, 07:43 PM
and it wouldn't be the first time neither.

BozeSG
07-21-2011, 05:10 PM
isn't it fine? just think of it as something to mess with people...

Comic and Mangas are the same thing.

Both are made on paper, have letters, character, scenes, etc. No difference at all.
comics and mangas are diiferent, and i'm just going to keep it at that because i don't want to explain things that has been explained over a thousand times...

TundraKnight
07-25-2011, 02:30 AM
I don't know about greatest Mangaka but what about Rumiko Takahashi? Ranma 1/2, Maison Ikkoku, Urusei Yatsura, One Pound Gospel, InuYasha... I know there's others as well.. stuff I grew up with..

ClockHand
07-25-2011, 02:45 AM
Kinda hard, because InuYasha was awful, the same for Urusei Yatsura (which only works for cosplayers) and Maison Ikkoku has a very restricted audience.

Most of her work is awfully, letting only few works as good (and not even great).

ram
07-25-2011, 08:51 AM
inuyasha has a high rating, it's just awful for you but it's not for all of the girls out there.. my sister really loved it so much

Arashi500
07-26-2011, 08:16 PM
its the anime of twilight



comics and mangas are diiferent, and i'm just going to keep it at that because i don't want to explain things that has been explained over a thousand times...

please do message me with an explanation on how they are different other than the fact that they're origins are from different countries.

Tora
07-26-2011, 10:37 PM
I didn't think Inuyasha was awful. A little drawn out? Yes. A little overhyped? Yes. But the plot was good, the art was good, and the characters were cool. And Rumiko does have other popular manga series just as TundraKnight said.

Also...
Hirano Khota (Hellsing) his style is amazing and unique to say the least.
Katsura Hoshino (D. Gray Man) has interesting plotlines and amazingly developed characters.
And of course...
Kaori Yuki (God Child, The Cain Saga, Angel Sanctuary, Fairy Cube, Boys Next Door, Ludwig Revolution, Grand Guignol Orchestra) is the most amazing story teller ever.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 03:45 PM
Why is Cake on here? For real. I stalk Heaven, and it's cool and all. But GREATEST. That's the key word here folks. Just because we like something doesn't mean it's great. Where are the VGs of Heaven, the Anime, the figurines, the TCG, the thousands (if not millions) of fans? No where.

nisaren
07-28-2011, 04:48 PM
To kind of jump on what BB said just before me, how exactly are we determining what is great? I mean I love the art style of Oh Great but I'm not sure I would lump him in with the likes of Tezuka Osamu or Otomo Katsuhiro. There needs to be a lower limit as to be able to qualify. I think a number of useful metrics to use would be Sales, Longest Running Series, Most Influential, Most Published series, etc. Otherwise, it's pointless and we just start to throw around random names of artists whose mangas we happen to like.

CypressDahlia
07-28-2011, 04:59 PM
cake's comic succeeds in establishing a unique style in both its art and its humor, which is something I struggle to find even in professional mangas.

And number of fans =/= quality of the work.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 05:24 PM
I like it Nisaren.

What. I mean that's nice, but unique doesn't mean good. And the thing is while yes, Heaven is good, it doesn't come close to deserve being called one of the greatest of all time. It has what, 6 chapters? Would anyone here call Dragon Ball or One Piece on of the best of all time back when they only had 6 chapters? Like hell they did.

jubeh
07-28-2011, 07:15 PM
The sex pistols only had 1 studio album. Quantity is not quality.


Sales

Twilight


Longest Running Series

It's rare that this isn't a bad thing why would you ever judge how great something is by how long it is outside of the bedroom.


Most Influential

Don't see how we can measure this. Twitter followers?


Most Published series

Seems ridiculous considering eiichiro oda exists.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 07:25 PM
The sex pistols only had 1 studio album. Quantity is not quality.
*coughs* Who? *Googles* If you can generate such a following in such a short period of time, great. Most don't. The Sex Pistols had time to develop and generate a following with concerts. Comics are bands.



Twilight
So? I don't like that book, but many people do. It's a great work for developing the following it has, even if it is shit.


It's rare that this isn't a bad thing why would you ever judge how great something is by how long it is outside of the bedroom.
Because it's stood the tests of time.


Don't see how we can measure this. Twitter followers?
Number of hits deviantArt generates?


Seems ridiculous considering eiichiro oda exists.
That's sort of the point though. He is one of the greatest. This ties in with long running. Everyone on the list except Cake has sold at least 1 million volumes of manga at some point.

jubeh
07-28-2011, 07:34 PM
Obviously my point wasn't clear. Nisaren chose metrics that have nothing to do with the comic artists themselves. Cypress was easily able to say why cake's heaven was a good comic, but you two were so quick to say that the most important thing was the numbers. Devianrtart watchers? You're joking right.


*coughs* Who? *Googles* If you can generate such a following in such a short period of time, great. Most don't. The Sex Pistols had time to develop and generate a following with concerts. Comics are bands.

Classic bacon barbarian. Googles a band and then tells me why they were able to succeed despite never having heard of them. Anyway that was obviously not the point I was making. Quality has nothing to do with how many "chapters" a comic has. You couldn't possibly argue that...could you?


So?

So does the twilight lady go on the list of best writers?


Because it's stood the tests of time.

That's not how the test of time works. The test of time is something happens and years later it is still influencing and interesting people. Long running series don't have to worry about this because they can change to meet the demands of modern readerships.


Number of hits deviantArt generates?

He's got jokes


That's sort of the point though. He is one of the greatest. This ties in with long running. Everyone on the list except Cake has sold at least 1 million volumes of manga at some point.

Um number of publishes series as in amount of series put out on the market. Oda has one, and a collection of short stories.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Obviously my point wasn't clear. Nisaren chose metrics that have nothing to do with the comic artists themselves. Cypress was easily able to say why cake's heaven was a good comic, but you two were so quick to say that the most important thing was the numbers. Devianrtart watchers? You're joking right.
No, not watchers. I didn't make myself clear. If we're talking influence, then what better way then to see how many works have been influenced by it? Give One Piece a search over at dA. You'll get 249,859 results. 249,859 pieces inspired, as thus, influenced by One Piece. Naruto has over 1 million. Heaven? None. Or none in context at least.


Classic bacon barbarian. Googles a band and then tells me why they were able to succeed despite never having heard of them. Anyway that was obviously not the point I was making. Quality has nothing to do with how many "chapters" a comic has. You couldn't possibly argue that...could you?
Yes. More chapters gives you more time to develop. With maturity comes greatness.


So does the twilight lady go on the list of best writers?
I for one wouldn't say so, but many would.


That's not how the test of time works. The test of time is something happens and years later it is still influencing and interesting people. Long running series don't have to worry about this because they can change to meet the demands of modern readerships.
You really think One Piece has changed since 5 years ago?


He's got jokes
No I don't.


Um number of publishes series as in amount of series put out on the market. Oda has one, and a collection of short stories.
Oh. I guess if that's what he actually meant. We'll have to wait and see I suppose. But if you're right, I conceed this point.

jubeh
07-28-2011, 08:05 PM
No, not watchers. I didn't make myself clear. If we're talking influence, then what better way then to see how many works have been influenced by it? Give One Piece a search over at dA. You'll get 249,859 results. 249,859 pieces inspired, as thus, influenced by One Piece. Naruto has over 1 million. Heaven? None. Or none in context at least.

Wait are you talking about fanart?


Yes. More chapters gives you more time to develop. With maturity comes greatness.

This is where I'd type, "I can't tell if you're being serious or not," but I don't really have to do that anymore because wtf are you being serious? So junji ito, whose works are mainly short stories, to you, could never be considered as good as that potato sack that does bleach?

By your logic, dominic deegan would be a good comic by now.


I for one wouldn't say so, but many would.

The idea here is that anyone could consider a fundamentally bad writer as one of the greats simply because she has sold a lot of books. Once again, it has nothing to do with the quality of the creator's work and everything to do with numbers. Am I getting anywhere here?


You really think One Piece has changed since 5 years ago?

It hasn't had to? But consider something like Dr Who.

nisaren
07-28-2011, 08:12 PM
I wasn't really writing that in response to the fact that we included Evil's comic. There's no reason to get defensive about wanting to know why we should include some of these mangaka's in our list. Some of them are obvious, some aren't. I listed the metrics as examples of reasons why an artist would qualify for inclusion not as a reason for exclusion. I just want people to convince me why I should believe these artist's are worthy of being considered "great" as opposed to other artists.

jubeh
07-28-2011, 08:19 PM
I wasn't really writing that in response to the fact that we included Evil's comic. There's no reason to get defensive about wanting to know why we should include some of these mangaka's in our list. Some of them are obvious, some aren't. I listed the metrics as examples of reasons why an artist would qualify for inclusion not as a reason for exclusion. I just want people to convince me why I should believe these artist's are worthy of being considered "great" as opposed to other artists.

In turn I wasn't writing to defend cake's comic.

What I was asking of you all was to consider that numbers are an unreliable way to judge the quality of an artist's work. I think I made my point clear, despite what bacon is saying. Looking at anything like this through statistics is fundamentally flawed. So I say fudge the metrics and judge the artist's body of work by the quality of it.

Also as for people convincing you why dudes should be on the list -- Its just some dude's list. Hiro Mashima is on it for godsakes.

nisaren
07-28-2011, 08:35 PM
The problem I have with what you are saying is that the way you are measuring "quality" is an entirely subjective thing and therefore different for everyone. Which basically makes this list just a list of favorite mangakas for whomever suggests. I chose those metrics because they are things that can be measured objectively giving us an unbiased reason for believing a mangaka to be "great".

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 09:07 PM
Wait are you talking about fanart?
Yes. Are you saying that fanart doesn’t measure influence? Why else are they drawing it?



This is where I'd type, "I can't tell if you're being serious or not," but I don't really have to do that anymore because wtf are you being serious? So junji ito, whose works are mainly short stories, to you, could never be considered as good as that potato sack that does bleach?
I have no idea who Ito Sensei is, but I have little respect for Tite Kubo as an artist. ... Let me change my mind. The longer you've been making comics as a whole, the better you are. This is a list of the greatest Mangaka, not the greatest manga.


By your logic, dominic deegan would be a good comic by now.
You seem to forget, I don't think DD is a complete abomination unto humanity.


The idea here is that anyone could consider a fundamentally bad writer as one of the greats simply because she has sold a lot of books. Once again, it has nothing to do with the quality of the creator's work and everything to do with numbers. Am I getting anywhere here?
No. They're doing something right if they're selling.


It hasn't had to? But consider something like Dr Who.
Exactly. And I know little of the Doctor. Simply that he changes actors frequently because he is a Time Lord. So ... Yeah. You don't want my opinion, as I lack one

jubeh
07-28-2011, 09:40 PM
The problem I have with what you are saying is that the way you are measuring "quality" is an entirely subjective thing and therefore different for everyone. Which basically makes this list just a list of favorite mangakas for whomever suggests. I chose those metrics because they are things that can be measured objectively giving us an unbiased reason for believing a mangaka to be "great".

And I pointed out why I believe those metrics will give you false cases. Trying to come up with a list for greatest anything is going to be inherently subjective. It's supposed to breed discussion.

I'd rather hear something like cype's response than hearing that something doesn't count because it didn't push enough volumes.


Yes. Are you saying that fanart doesn’t measure influence? Why else are they drawing it?

I'm making sure we're on the same page here. I typed in naruto and got 1667403 hits. Typed in Superman and got 100428. I don't think it's an accurate test since Superman literally inspired an entire genre that is a staple of american culture and naruto is just incredibly popular.


I have no idea who Ito Sensei is, but I have little respect for Tite Kubo as an artist. ... Let me change my mind. The longer you've been making comics as a whole, the better you are. This is a list of the greatest Mangaka, not the greatest manga.

This was brought up because you felt that heaven didn't have enough chapters to be considered.


You seem to forget, I don't think DD is a complete abomination unto humanity.


I don't see what this has to do with anything. I was saying that the length of a comic doesn't make it better. You conceded in the above paragraph so no point in going on about it.


No. They're doing something right if they're selling.

Surely you wouldn't say this about fake psychics, and those pads people use to suck toxins out of their feets. You should know, as an american, that people buy the stupidest shit.


Exactly. And I know little of the Doctor. Simply that he changes actors frequently because he is a Time Lord. So ... Yeah. You don't want my opinion, as I lack one

I can't think of an example you'd be familiar with, but as long as you get what I'm saying.

nisaren
07-28-2011, 10:17 PM
I'd say that we should probably just agree to disagree here. I come from a scientific background so it's in my nature to look for objective means to support my assertions. Purely subjective discussion is fun but I have a hard time taking it seriously.

CypressDahlia
07-28-2011, 10:42 PM
FLCL is only 6 episodes and is considered one of the best anime in history. "standing the test of time" doesn't mean that it's continuous over a long period. It means that you can revisit it ten years later and still enjoy it. It doesn't decay.

Uniqueness is a great thing. Recall that manga is an art form and art is more or less defined by the artist. Cake defines his work with his personality.

And as far as influence or fame, I'd like to direct you to various "underrated games/books/movies/comics" followings. A lot of excellent things never get famous. Treasure of the Rudras, one of my favorite SNES RPGs, had an absolutely brilliant magic system that would've set an excellent industry standard. Did it? No.

Really, no matter how you look at it, numbers are only relevant half the time.

nisaren
07-28-2011, 11:11 PM
I think we're experiencing a bit of a misunderstanding at the moment.

I never said that in order for something or someone to be considered "great" that it would have to match up with all metrics, just at least 1 or more. This is what I meant when I said that the measurements were meant to be inclusive not exclusive.

I'm sure FLCL, if it is considered to be one of the best anime in history (I don't know because I'm not familiar with the acronym), has a large fan base and was influential among other artists. It probably sold a lot of DVDs or was viewed a lot. Just because it didn't have a long series count doesn't exclude it, since those examples I listed were merely ideas for things that could grant inclusion. I'm not sure that I can be much clearer with what I'm trying to say.

You just have to choose the correct numbers to support what you're saying. Yes, a single measurement may not be relevant half the time, but among all the various measurements there should be at least one that is relevant.

There are obviously some works and artists that are controversial as far as being called great. They have a couple metrics working for them and several against. That's where fun debate comes into play and subjectivity has its place.

CypressDahlia
07-28-2011, 11:39 PM
Yes, and the point was that every one of those criteria is flawed in one way or another. So it's irrelevant how many criteria a work meets when they all risk being flawed, beit 1 or 40. There is still no sure-fire way to determine the quality of work by figures.

Besides, since when did we start writing all of these rules for this thread? I welcome your arguments against my opinion, but don't start assuming the intent of the thread. If the OP clearly stated that those criteria were necessary for induction, I would've never nominated Cake. But that wasn't the case.

nisaren
07-29-2011, 12:03 AM
I'm just challenging people to actually support things they say rather than just tossing things around. I never made rules, I just suggested a way to determine whether someone or something warranted greatness that was more than just personal opinion. Up to you guys whether you want to use it. I'll stop derailing this thread now.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-29-2011, 04:35 PM
And I pointed out why I believe those metrics will give you false cases. Trying to come up with a list for greatest anything is going to be inherently subjective. It's supposed to breed discussion.
And this isn't a discussion?


I'd rather hear something like cype's response than hearing that something doesn't count because it didn't push enough volumes.
I'm maintaing that numbers work. As you said, it's subjective. Editors and publishers are certainly going to look at numbers to measure greatness.


I'm making sure we're on the same page here. I typed in naruto and got 1667403 hits. Typed in Superman and got 100428. I don't think it's an accurate test since Superman literally inspired an entire genre that is a staple of american culture and naruto is just incredibly popular.
I guess so. Maybe just Google hits then? Though that could easily be skewed in the same way ...


This was brought up because you felt that heaven didn't have enough chapters to be considered.
Yes. I realized that wasn't the correct way to be thinking and amended my previous statement. The longer you've been working in the actual industry, (and I mean working, payed and whatnot) generally, the better you are. If you're crappy you aren't going to be around long.


I don't see what this has to do with anything. I was saying that the length of a comic doesn't make it better. You conceded in the above paragraph so no point in going on about it.
Aye.


Surely you wouldn't say this about fake psychics, and those pads people use to suck toxins out of their feets. You should know, as an american, that people buy the stupidest shit.
No kidding. But as much as I detest Twlight, I don't think Stephenie Meyer is trying to rip people off.


I can't think of an example you'd be familiar with, but as long as you get what I'm saying.
ok

Ceefy: FCLC and TTGL are both completed Anime. That's the difference.

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 04:39 PM
Yes, that is a difference. But how does that help your argument? Bleach is not completed, Naruto is not completed, Air Gear is not completed.

And, like I said, we are nominating the Greatest Mangakas in our opinion. At what point did the OP state that we had to look at it from an editor's perspective? Or a publisher's perspective? You can't just make up rules for the thread.

Besides, an editor or publisher would look at sales and go by that because they get commissioned based on how many issues sell. So that, in itself, is faulty.

jubeh
07-29-2011, 04:48 PM
And this isn't a discussion?

Um this is meant to be a discussion about manga artists yet we're discussing all the wrong things. Also stop attacking the wrong points I hate having to explain this stuff and I know you're doing it on purpose.


I'm maintaing that numbers work. As you said, it's subjective. Editors and publishers are certainly going to look at numbers to measure greatness.

And obviously I don't think they do.


I guess so. Maybe just Google hits then? Though that could easily be skewed in the same way ...

I think you should just stop trying to find a way to measure something as abstract as influence period, imho.


Yes. I realized that wasn't the correct way to be thinking and amended my previous statement. The longer you've been working in the actual industry, (and I mean working, payed and whatnot) generally, the better you are. If you're crappy you aren't going to be around long.

Check out an artist called Yusaku Hanakuma.


No kidding. But as much as I detest Twlight, I don't think Stephenie Meyer is trying to rip people off.

Not on purpose anyway.

ram
07-29-2011, 06:39 PM
i didn't go to this thread for more less than a week and i see a lot of comments and texts.:cat_whirly:

the word "GREAT" can be define in everyone's opinion.
some define is as great because of majority and some define great cause of their own opinion.

anyone here can disagree when i say that "i am great" but no one can stop my idea for it.
though i still vote for evil_cake cause of it's uniqueness.

MiguelAndrew
07-31-2011, 11:26 AM
Bacon wanted or trying to say that Fairy Tail is like OP ,in a sense that OP is release first. I stop reading Fairy Tail for having this similarities to OP. But I don't degrading Fairy Tail, both manga are great in their own sense and creativity.

ClockHand
07-31-2011, 11:40 AM
You can measure who is the greatest by the quantity, only the quality, and to this you need to take away the followers, publishers, etc. And see his work by what it is and what the artist have delivered in his years of carrier.

There are reasons why Cake's comic can be considered as a great work, and also there are reasons to not be considered, but those reasons doesn't come from a quantity measure, it come from a quality interpretation from the readers to his work.

I will take a example: Amy Whinehouse had a average popularity (where I live she had none), she was a great singer but no one really listened to her or care about her. She die, and now everyone listen to her. Should be we say she was a great singer because of her popularity after dead or because her singing skills in the use of contralto mixing blues, jazz, and other genres?

That's why popularity is stupid way to measure someone's work. See Naruto as other example, everyone reads it, but it has many lacks of sense's.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-31-2011, 07:56 PM
It depends why she became popular. If it's because her death brought attention to her where she had never made it into the market, then yes. Otherwise, I would personally say no.

ram
07-31-2011, 09:23 PM
bacon since you disagree with cake being a great mangaka you should change your signiture lol:cat_wahaha:

BozeSG
08-09-2011, 05:23 PM
Okay, sorry for abandoning this thread for a while, never thought there would be troubles with it... i'm sorry if the purpose of this thread was a bit vague...:cat_remorse:

the thing we're doing here, is to nominate mangakas who can be described as successful, now being successful here means that they were able to develop a manga or two that can be widely recognized as a great success in their own field (eg. all the people in the current list.) and discuss the reasons they were able to do this, like what they did, how did they go about doing it, what got them started, etc. in other words, people who were able to achieve their aim completely, something that (supposedly) all of us want to do. and before you ask, no, achieving an aim of doing a two page manga with blank panels is not called success... (i think it's better if i add this to the first post... :cat_sad:)

and i just added evil-cake for the hell of it, can't you guys stop being so damn serious?

Sylux
08-11-2011, 05:27 AM
Um, Cake is great. His stuff is enjoyable on all plains, that's what counts.

ram
09-01-2011, 08:56 AM
btw, i must agree with whoever suggested amatsu ken. he fails probably in love hina but if you read negima, you won't see anything like his action packed drawings!

naruto, bleach and onepiece are no match when it comes to battle packed stuffs!
http://www.mangareader.net/mahou-sensei-negima/319
although the first chapters in negima are kinda shit, but in chapter 80+
everything becomes thrilling

Renzokuken
09-01-2011, 11:14 AM
Takeshi Obata- Death Note

Yusuke Murata- Eyeshield 21

Kentaro Yabuki- Black Cat (he's drawn others though I haven't read them)

Nobuhiro Watsuki- Rurouni Kenshin, Buso Renkin, Embalming

Funnily enough, the last three were mentored by Obata.

Regantor
09-01-2011, 03:01 PM
- Masamune Shirow (Ghost in the Shell, Apple Seed)

This guy is such an odd bird.

He totally went from writing stark, deep and extermely realistic cyberpunk stuff in the late 80s/early 90s to basically being a megaweebo hentai producer now. I own all of the Appleseed books; Their art and design style should, by all rights, have become the new macross.

Perhaps he just became disillusioned?... >_>

Kodos
09-01-2011, 03:30 PM
Or he just lost his mind. Lots of great SF writers eventually went crazy and went on to writing creepy fetish porn crap. Asimov and Herbert come to mind, and I'd say Heinlein, too, but he started off a crazy deviant so it wasn't a sudden change like with others.

ram
09-04-2011, 12:04 AM
i'm a fan of Takahashi, Rumiko, i don't really think inuyasha is great and i don't think it's bad as well..
but i'm a so much a fan of ranma 1/2!!