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BozeSG
05-13-2011, 02:03 AM
Many people say bleach manga is not worth shit because of it slow pace, lack of backgrounds and story... but i'd disagree with that, what do you think?

DrPumpkin
05-13-2011, 04:12 AM
Nope, it's pretty bad.

Story sort of worked in the early arcs. But then, it evolves into some sort of cobbled together storyline that you could swear was put together on the spot.

And it's pretty much established that there's a character that can pretty much heal wounds however serious they are so there's no excitement in the fights. At all. Which pretty much beats the purpose of its genre.

It's a shame since Tite's a okay artist. He just needs to team up with a writer who can actually write, because he really can't.

GunZet
05-13-2011, 11:22 AM
It started out awesome, then it became shit.

Matt
05-13-2011, 12:18 PM
I read it for 300 something chapters, then they updated it and I decided not to keep reading (plus, my downloader stopped working).

BozeSG
05-13-2011, 02:16 PM
Well, with bleach being the source of inspiration for me to keep on drawing, i might have become a bit fond of it unreasonably but i always think the charm of bleach's story is not it's plot, it's the narration. i mean every panel is big and they all have a huge ass sfx on them, that shows that tite's mind is not on the plot itself, it's on how badass can he make the fight...

@DrPumpkin: orihime can't heal reiatsu, that's established as well so everyone will go out of energy if they fight, atleast that's not changed.
@Gunzet: few words, but completely explanatory.:cat_thumbsup:
@Matt: so... do think it's awesome or shit?

Outcast
05-13-2011, 02:25 PM
It started out awesome, then it became shit.

Agreed

Matt
05-13-2011, 02:37 PM
I don't know. I'm neutral on Bleach. Like you, it inspires me to draw, but HSDK does it better because I can relate to the main character a lot more; plus, the pacing and the character growth is a lot more gradual. Ichigo is powerful even before he becomes a Shinigami (and becomes even more powerful when he is).

Before I go any further, I'll give my conclusion: after a paragraph of thinking, I'd say that Bleach is pretty awesome. Although it's predictable, I did like seeing Ichigo's dad as a Shinigami and a consolation with his far less powerful friends. The characters were fairly diverse and had some interesting quirks. Bleach's popularity is not for nothing. It's just not my absolute favorite.

Just a little more, though: when Tite is trying as hard as he can to make every fight as epic as possible, we sort of lose our sense of scale. This guy was strong because he could do a Cero. Now, this guy's stronger because he can do an even bigger Cero. This guy can do two at a time! This guy's bankai is impossible to dodge, but now the guy he's fighting can dodge it. I'm not against this level of epicness so long as it remains epic and doesn't become "normal."

I like to see a set level of epicness, have the hero at level 0, and then see him make his way to that set level. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I'm the kinda person who WANTS to see Ash become "the very best that no one ever was," or Kenichi become a master. Ichigo is already a Shinigami, and the only thing he has to aim for is the next level up whenever a bad guy pulls out a better move than his, or can move slightly faster than him, when he can already move faster than most other Shinigami.

Darn. I'm becoming one of those people who notices and points out all the flaws in his favorite game/manga/etc. (While I'm at it, I hate searching an entire room of graphical excellence just to find one tiny square of portal-friendly surface in Portal 2.)

Bacon_Barbarian
05-13-2011, 03:14 PM
I didn't even like the beginning, the art was absolutely shitty. Now I just read it because I have a subscription to JUMP and the fights are ... interesting (though you couldn't bother me to try and care about the plot).

EDIT: Oh, and Tite can write OK. He's the one who did Zombiepowder, right?

CypressDahlia
05-13-2011, 07:07 PM
Went down the path of Dragonball Z.

Kodos
05-13-2011, 07:17 PM
Naruto is a bad story told badly.
Bleach is a series of stupid events unfolding at a pace that can only be described using geological timescales.

I lurk both threads on SA and have friends who used to read both, and they echo the statement. Basically Kubo's the hack of hacks.

Also I saw an episode of the anime once. Natural breasts are not perfect spheres. Either someone can't draw tits, or Rangiku has breast implants.

Can a ghost even get breast implants?

Outcast
05-14-2011, 06:20 AM
Maybe she got them before she became a ghost?

Never understood the oversized breast thing I find just flat out repulsive.

Renzokuken
05-14-2011, 10:01 AM
I like it. But it annoys the hell out of me sometimes with it's character's cryptic speech or the invincible bad guy (Aizen). But yeah, the huge boobs on Rangiku are unnecessarily large.

BozeSG
05-14-2011, 04:06 PM
:cat_see:Rangiku's boobs are definitely too large.... DON'T JUDGE AN ANIME BASED ON ONE CHARACTER'S BOOBS :cat_fly: (failed tsukkomi)

@Matt: Agreed on every single thing you said, and also i hope ash finally becomes a pokemon master when i'll be about die of old age... though i doubt it!
@Bacon_Barbarian: zombie powder FTW! really that could've been a masterpiece, i don't know why every shounen fails in a western themed plot...
@kodos: that was probably a filler ep only meant for fanservice since rangiku's breasts are not shown in the manga.
@Renzokuken: Aizen is and will be one of my favourite villains right after johan in monster, why? because no villain has ever manged to piss this many audiences off and still stay cool...

Evil_Cake
05-14-2011, 04:32 PM
i read this comic sometimes to know how bad it is

Matt
05-14-2011, 05:02 PM
@Bacon_Barbarian: zombie powder FTW! really that could've been a masterpiece, i don't know why every shounen fails in a western themed plot...
Chrno Crusade (yes, they spell it like that for whatever reason) was good. I'm guessing western-themed manga just don't appeal to the Japanese the way their culture does to us (in some cases; I'm not too big on the Japanese culture--just their art style).

I never got into the huge boob thing, but I'm okay with it to a certain extent. Rangiku surpasses that extent for me. Orihime is just barely within it.

Kodos
05-14-2011, 05:12 PM
T-too large?
http://anomit.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/1b957c3f7e8f1e8eaa905e683e84d89c.jpg

Bacon_Barbarian
05-14-2011, 06:30 PM
The reason Zombiepowder flopped is because Tite Kubo was mentally unsound at the time ... Shame really, it's the best work he's ever made.

jubeh
05-14-2011, 06:33 PM
I read zombiepowder and it was garbage on pulp paper.

Ozzaharwood
05-14-2011, 09:18 PM
Hey, don't judge a woman by her boobs.

Honestly though, you are right. It's meaningless fanservice, but it probably brings in a larger audience since the majority of the population of the world are brainless boob-mongers. But big boobs usually doesn't affect storyline, or the likability of an anime... And it doesn't change the fact that Bleach is a good anime. TBH, any anime/manga that goes passed 100 episodes or chapters starts to get worse and worse as it goes on. This is probably due to the fact that the creators run out of original ideas, and the main plot is either already solved or just piled with fillers. Bleach is a nice anime to watch to have fun, but if you are one to criticize for storyline and character development etc, it's understandable why you wouldn't like it. Bleach is also targeted towards the teen audience, like most mainstream anime/manga, and that's probably why it has extremely well endowed women and lots of action scenes and things adults might not like. I haven't watched Bleach for like 3 years now, so I can't say that I'm 100% right, but this is what I believe.

Bacon_Barbarian
05-14-2011, 10:13 PM
It was better then BLEACH. Anyway, I thought it was OK and it's all subjective anyway.

Kodos
05-15-2011, 12:05 AM
@kodos: that was probably a filler ep only meant for fanservice since rangiku's breasts are not shown in the manga.
Are you telling me they completely changed her character design for the anime and/or that she wears a burqa and chest bindings in the manga? Because I'm not talking about a nude scene. She was in a schoolgirl outfit. I'm saying that the anime, at the very least, from what i've seen of it, draws her tits as though the artist just traced quarters.

BozeSG
05-15-2011, 03:32 AM
Leave rangiku's tits alone man, they're just two tits anyway...

@Matt: but trigun and cowboy bebop became as popular as hell!!!
@Ozzaharwood: of course that's right, i'm saying that considering it's genre, bleach is one hell of a masterpiece just because of it's art and character design.
@Bacon_Barbarian: yeah, a shame, CT Smith & Gamma could've been really awesome if it continued.

Ceta
05-15-2011, 03:44 AM
Personally, I don't mind Bleach. While I do understand what you guys are talking about, I find it a fun read so long as you're not thinking too deeply about what you're reading.

Evil_Cake
05-15-2011, 12:57 PM
and thats why it sucks :cat_see:

Sylux
05-16-2011, 02:01 PM
Naruto is a bad story told badly.
No, "Orochimaru is a bad guy and we must stop him" is a great story :(

Outcast
05-16-2011, 05:50 PM
:lol:

Kodos
05-17-2011, 05:28 AM
The plot of Naruto is "Naruto, a young gay wizard/assassin, is left with severe emotional trauma and stockholm syndrome after latching on to another emotionally troubled young boy in a nightmarish world where children are trained and used as soldiers and taught to kill by the time they are 8 years old."

Rio
05-17-2011, 11:50 AM
I don't follow Bleach anymore. Reading the fist several chapters were boring to me but I hung on and it did get interesting afterwords but sometime around the whole Karakura-town arc I got bored again and decided not to read anymore.

What I can say that goes for Bleach is the variety of characters, powers, and societies that makes it interesting and different from other manga's out there.

Sylux
05-17-2011, 08:33 PM
The plot of Naruto is "Naruto, a young gay wizard/assassin, is left with severe emotional trauma and stockholm syndrome after latching on to another emotionally troubled young boy in a nightmarish world where children are trained and used as soldiers and taught to kill by the time they are 8 years old."
It's enjoyable to me, a child, but probably not to you, an adult. I can relate with these children because they are children. You can't much, anymore, most likely. Just personal preference here, but Naruto is a-okay in my book.

Outcast
05-18-2011, 01:01 AM
Child? aren't you 15?

Kodos
05-18-2011, 03:21 AM
It's enjoyable to me, a child, but probably not to you, an adult. I can relate with these children because they are children. You can't much, anymore, most likely. Just personal preference here, but Naruto is a-okay in my book.
No. Naruto is objectively bad. There are workable ideas in there, and some of it is just juvenile, yes, but the central conflict is objectively bad. Sasuke was never not a selfish prick. That's the problem. The entire plot hinges around the audience accepting the idea that Sasuke is a good person who has lost his way and become seduced by evil. Thing is, again, Sasuke never was. He was always a selfish little shit. Having Naruto pine over him the way he does just makes Naruto look like a battered wife rationalizing that her husband smacking her around is his way of showing his love. And some of the evil shit they've had Sasuke do since 'becoming' evil are also past the event moral horizon.

Basically there is a simple but workable story concept underneath all the shit in Naruto, yes. And some of Kishimoto's ideas are actually not half bad. But Sasuke poisons everything he touches and the entire conflict Naruto has regarding him - which is more or less the primary conflict in the story - is objectively terrible.

Again: There are objective standards in storytelling. Some things are matters of opinion, yes, but some things are not. Naruto really is objectively bad. You're still allowed to like it, that's a valid opinion (if a bad taste one) but saying that Naruto is not bad is objectively wrong. The driving force of most of the manga is simply done wrong.

CypressDahlia
05-18-2011, 03:36 PM
TBH, Naruto isn't all bad. But the plot was too simple for it to be drawn out as long as it was, which is what led to it being bad. It's like trying to make a sweet tart last forever. Also, the characterization is not all that great (IMO, it sucks, but it's a common crime among shonen anime). And Sasuke doesn't need to be innocent at any point for his character to work. Lol. Even if you put a total asshole in his place, the plot still works. Just not for as long as it's been going...

Sylux
05-18-2011, 07:23 PM
Well I'm on episode 95 or something, if that accounts for any reason as to why I like it.

Evil_Cake
05-18-2011, 07:24 PM
yeah probably

Arashi500
05-21-2011, 06:20 PM
Even though the manga is the only medium I can stand it in(half the anime is filler, none of it good either). The whole trouble of Naruto is that it's various sub-plots are all more interesting than the driving plot. Not to mention the main characters are all mind-numbingly stupid/thick to care about. Orochimaru also dies in a total cop-out.

Sylux
05-26-2011, 08:36 PM
Dude tag your motherfucking spoilers you asshole, jeez.

Arashi500
05-28-2011, 04:39 AM
If you couldn't predict the main villains death in a very shounen manga something must be wrong with you.

LVUER
05-28-2011, 07:24 AM
Still, it never hurts to use spoiler tag when you're about to spoil something, especially considering that this is Bleach thread, not Naruto (people doesn't expect to be spoiled of Naruto's plot).

Bacon_Barbarian
05-28-2011, 01:29 PM
Yeah, I agree with LVUER. If we were in an actual Naruto Thread it would be OK but ...

Outcast
05-28-2011, 03:50 PM
It's not much of a spoiler really, he's the villain of course he's going to die.

Renzokuken
05-28-2011, 04:19 PM
Wow, anything to aggravate, huh?

Anyway, back on Bleach. I'm one of those people that starts something and has to finish it, no matter the quality. I'm 400 odd chapters in and I gotta say, Bleach shoulda ended about a hundred chapters ago.

The only known series I know that has gotten better after a longer period is One Piece. 'Cause Oda's the man.

Byakuran
05-29-2011, 09:26 PM
Did you guys know there was a bleach rock musical?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Im1UB-Uwc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Rio
05-29-2011, 09:30 PM
Oh yeah - I read about that. xD

Byakuran
05-29-2011, 09:33 PM
I was like whaaaaat O___o... i feel kinda ashamed im actually watching it now...

I only watched bleach till rukia arc. ended since i quit watching it because of all the hate xD... well i think bleach has some good things in it... but its sometimes a little 2 much... the plot overthinking maybe a wee bit 2 much fillers but... it is still popular it still has some good points.. (also i stopped watching but my bro and sis always tell me how the story continues and stuff =___=)

Bleach may be not so good atm(imo it isn't good atm xD but i havent been following much so meh), but its still popular

Rio
05-29-2011, 10:03 PM
I believe they also have it for Naruto and usually all the popular manga's have one. I think even One Piece has one. xD

Byakuran
05-30-2011, 04:55 PM
SRSLY!? Gintama totally should've had one..-offtopic-

But the musical wasn't as good i'd expect it, but the voice of rukia was awesome.. inuou is annyoing. and i wanted the bg to be more... xD i guess that isnt something in these kind of musicales?

Sylux
05-31-2011, 03:35 PM
The musical sounds pretty alright from that vid there. At least, the first minute does.

neogenstru
06-14-2011, 12:47 AM
So if Ichigo and Gutts got into a fight..

apples13
06-14-2011, 05:56 PM
bleach was pretty cool before but now it is poo

butternut
06-15-2011, 12:27 PM
Bleach is on a sine curve. Or more like a cosine curve, haha. It was interesting in the beginning, and then got boring, and then interesting, and again boring, and than kinda okay, and now i haven't watched it in like months and i'm still at 170-something. i wonder when i'm gonna get through.

Rio
06-15-2011, 12:53 PM
Never. It's like a bad relationship. Don't get sucked into the lies again saphira! It's just gonna disappoint you again.

butternut
06-16-2011, 12:03 AM
hehe, thanks for the advice Rio. Guess i'll 'break up' with it ;) and leave it in my laptop for back up.

Byakuran
06-16-2011, 11:37 AM
The musical sounds pretty alright from that vid there. At least, the first minute does.

Yeah but they shouldve used some original OST's, cuz some of the bleach osts are really awesome...

And rukia's voice IS rukias voice when you listen to it it's p. cool... she's a good singer...
And the kurosaki is oke, chads really not puerto ricon at all.. :(... also i think the stage shouldve been better but ohwell..


Also cast got renewed (http://www.jpopasia.com/news/rock-musical-bleach-gets-new-cast::7087.html)i think.

Kache
06-19-2011, 04:11 AM
Poo.

Seriously, there were so many fillers I just stopped watching at episode "I forgot, because I got sick of the fillers"