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jubeh
04-20-2011, 05:13 AM
Okay I know some of you here like to make games so I think we should have a thread for that sort of thing. You know for advice and maybe for people who want to get into developing but don't know how to start.

I mostly work with game maker and just make whatever comes to mind. I don't have plans for any complete games since I'm still in the trial and error phases of learning. I'm also learning python, and will be taking actual programming courses next semester. And I like to do pixel stuff though I'm still learning.

This is a wip idle animation for a dude named bash of the mountains. I'm still working on making it more fluid.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/bashidle.gif

So what are you guys working on.

Matt
04-20-2011, 11:02 AM
I think this is relevant:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits

Also, I'm a complete noob at pixel art, though I really want to learn. Game Maker is fun to play with, but I'm learning Python at the moment. Maya and 3DS and such are still beyond me.

GunZet
04-20-2011, 12:16 PM
This reminded me that I'm still making a game that I haven't touched since what...early Feb. Surrounded or some shart like that. Maybe I should get back on it at some point.
Also for peeps who use GameMaker, GM 8.1 is out now, and from what I'm hearing, the cons outweigh the pros.

Rio
04-20-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm part of a team to create a VN called Foxtaile. I've been busy with this site so it pretty much got the short end of the stick.... but this time for sure! I'll finish the artz~!

One of the art but I'm going to re-do it. (http://fav.me/djs2ye)

Slurpee
04-20-2011, 01:38 PM
Ren'ai games are like those dating games right?

GunZet
04-20-2011, 02:11 PM
OH yea. I'm working on this currently.
And that is all.
http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=767003

jubeh
04-20-2011, 02:53 PM
@Matt: Extra credits is a good show.

@Gunzet: That games looks...interesting.

Added some head motion to bash.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/bashidle-1.gif

Also this is what he is supposed to look like (minus the bamboo club)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/bash-1.png

Matt
04-20-2011, 02:59 PM
@Jubeh - Looks pretty accurate to me. My trouble right now is getting hair to look right at sizes like 50x50 and 64x64, especially with the length of the bangs I usually do. Also, animating is a pain. Do you have all the frames pixeled in black and white before you apply color?

>>>I'd recommend the Extra Credits videos to anyone who wants to make games. Good stuff.

jubeh
04-20-2011, 03:01 PM
No but I probably should. I usually just make silhouette with a different color representing each limb so that I can get the animation looking right. And then I draw over those. I took a different approach this time so I'm worried about how I'm going to make a walk cycle though.

Hayashida
04-20-2011, 03:02 PM
looks pretty jawsome James

Matt
04-20-2011, 03:06 PM
Jubeh, what program do you use for spriting?

jubeh
04-20-2011, 05:37 PM
I use game maker's sprite editor. It's actually really awful but I like to see a preview animation while I'm working on animating. I also use graphics gale but I really don't like it all that much.

CypressDahlia
04-20-2011, 07:13 PM
Graphics Gale is p. awesome.

jubeh
04-20-2011, 07:19 PM
I will like it more once I'm used to it I'm sure.

LVUER
04-20-2011, 07:25 PM
If you like to make VN, furthermore if you can use Phyton (but not a must), try RenPy.

CypressDahlia
04-20-2011, 07:36 PM
I've seen some really cool games made in RenPy, though the best ones tend not to be free... =_=

jubeh
04-20-2011, 09:15 PM
Made a 16x16 bash (magnified obviously). It was a lot harder than it looks.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/bash8bit.png

Still not sure what I'm going to do with him.

GunZet
04-21-2011, 11:10 AM
You're using GM8 right? Cause I'd just make the graphics in an external program and save them as .png's so it gets the transparency. Better quality. Saves time working with the lame GM sprite ed.

jubeh
04-21-2011, 12:14 PM
Im not using transparency because it really makes it hard to use grays and whites and you can't really have better quality pixel work since it's you know, pixels.

Matt
04-21-2011, 01:07 PM
Can't you make the background pink or something? The transparency detection makes stuff transparent based on the color of the pixel in the top left of the image--at least from my experience.

jubeh
04-21-2011, 01:19 PM
Um gm can already make things transparent and I don't really see the point of doing that do you see what I am saying. If I actually used them in a game they would be transparent.

GunZet
04-21-2011, 01:30 PM
I mean if your lines are anti-aliased or fuzzy.
Say you want to create something that has a glow, you don't have to use the 'glow' option inside GM, just import the pic.
That's what I was getting at.

jubeh
04-21-2011, 01:31 PM
I guess but that's not really how you work with pixel art. If you are doing it right there shouldn't ever be aa.

GunZet
04-21-2011, 02:03 PM
Oh, pixel art. Lol...I haven't done that in a while. Yea, you're right on that part.

Sylux
04-21-2011, 02:16 PM
GunZet what did you ever do with Psycho Place?

GunZet
04-21-2011, 02:36 PM
It got scrapped for the second time...the idea still lives, so I may revive it again at some point. But not any time soon. It was just way too much work, and the engine I built both versions around were just too all over the place and overall shitty (although it worked fine).

Sylux
04-21-2011, 02:40 PM
If you ever resuscitate it, be sure to tell me.

GunZet
04-21-2011, 02:46 PM
I shall.

The only reason it's died the last two times is because I wanted to add in so much.
Maybe the third time around I'll strip a lot of the stuff and keep it simple. No more over-detailing >_>

Sylux
04-21-2011, 02:49 PM
Or you could make it out of this world, and make it in C++, then sell it and hopefully be recognized well enough to publish it on Steam.

GunZet
04-21-2011, 05:15 PM
Meh. I'm really not a programmer. I'm fine with only knowing GML.

Rio
04-21-2011, 09:53 PM
Ren'ai games are like those dating games right?
Yup. Also included are visual novels.

@ Cypress
Wow, I didn't expect you to be into RenPy games. What games did you play?

Handy333
04-27-2011, 09:34 PM
Did someone play may game yet, does it suck that bad? One day after I posted my last reply to a question people has been ignoring me on everything on this site. Did I do something wrong (other than that one thing I did which was stupid on my part)?
Is it because I don't have a icon? I don't know how to do it.

Oh and the Unity Engine that uses java and other programming languages is a good engine. It's a 3D and 2D.5 engine!

Rio
04-28-2011, 11:53 AM
Personally, I have very little time to dedicate to video games so I only tend to play those that I bought. Maybe you should consider making a siggy pointing to the thread of your game. I actually forgot you made that and others may have as well.

As for being shunned - it's all in your head. Either that or there's really not much to reply to you about so there's no response. :shrugs: Anyways, you should be like Fenn. His threads used to end right after he creates them (http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?546-I-ve-got-the-maaa-gic-in-me...every-time-I-touch-a-thread) but he's kept at it and his Anime Boston thread (http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?286-I-might-be-going-to-AnimeBoston-help!) seems to have stayed alive despite his curse. :p

Sylux
04-28-2011, 02:15 PM
I want to get Jaidurn into ActionScript so I can make a Flash game for Newgrounds with him but he's obsessed with mastering Game Maker. Dunno what the hell's wrong with him, but does anyone know of any good books for getting acquainted with AS 3.0? I want to buy him one and send it to him as a present, and I don't know how useful the Dummies book on it will be, and if there's a more complete guide, I want him to have it.

Rio
04-28-2011, 06:57 PM
Ugh, I dislike Dummies books. They're all too much text on the useless stuff and not enough of the meat-and-bones unless you're like 150 pages in the book already. You should get this: ActionScript 3.0 for Adobe Flash CS4 Professional Classroom in a Book (http://www.amazon.com/ActionScript-Adobe-Flash-Professional-Classroom/dp/0321579216/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1304027693&sr=8-5). Books directly endorsed by Adobe are great. They know the ins-and-outs of the software and they tend to have nice examples and walkthroughs - stuff you can actually sink your teeth in.

GunZet
04-28-2011, 06:59 PM
I've used Actionscript before in school....tedious stuff.

Rio
04-28-2011, 07:06 PM
lol Any coding is pretty tedious. What makes it bearable is the end result. :3

GunZet
04-28-2011, 07:08 PM
Yea I know. But the framework is just so....ugh I don't know. I don't like it. I'd do C whatever before I touch AS again.

Sylux
04-28-2011, 09:46 PM
Ugh, I dislike Dummies books. They're all too much text on the useless stuff and not enough of the meat-and-bones unless you're like 150 pages in the book already. You should get this: ActionScript 3.0 for Adobe Flash CS4 Professional Classroom in a Book (http://www.amazon.com/ActionScript-Adobe-Flash-Professional-Classroom/dp/0321579216/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1304027693&sr=8-5). Books directly endorsed by Adobe are great. They know the ins-and-outs of the software and they tend to have nice examples and walkthroughs - stuff you can actually sink your teeth in.
O_O
FUCK YEAR THANKS

Handy333
04-28-2011, 09:50 PM
so far its only a demo
lets see signatures need a special type of coding right?

Rio
04-28-2011, 09:55 PM
O_O
FUCK YEAR THANKS

YOU'RE SILLY GOOSE WELCOME! >: D

@ Handy333
Nope. It's like using the standard BBcode

LVUER
04-28-2011, 11:08 PM
Anyone knows a good game-making software? That's good and worth the price? So far my choice is Game Maker. Only $40 (new price) but if you buy now it's only $25.

RenPy is free, but it's oriented to VN only. To make complex game you need a good knowledge of Python... and doing that means you already enter the world of programming, why use RenPy then?

RPG Maker costs about $30 to $60 (depending on what version you buy). Again, for RPG games only, and it's very inflexible, due to it's newbie-friendliness. I know you could use Ruby to add more complexity, but it's same case with RenPy.

The Game Factory 2/Multimedia Fusion 2/Multimedia Fusion 2 Developer cost from $75 to a whopping $350. It's very simple to use but that means it's also very inflexible. And it's good to make a platform/adventure games only.

IG Maker costs $60 (from original $90), and it's pretty good too. But again, it's very inflexible and only good to make side-scrolling shooter game and platform game.

Unity is free, but it's a 3D game-making software hence it's very difficult to learn and perhaps the development cost could be a bit steep for an indie game developer (or if you make game just for hobby/free). Unity Pro costs about $1500.

There are several other free software, but I found it too difficult to learn or unstable or even unfinished (or could be combination of all).

So anyone knows other good software?

jubeh
04-29-2011, 12:59 AM
I use game maker but portability is really bad. You can make games for windows, and mac (but only if you own a mac? its really weird), and apparently for ios but I don't know how that's done yet.

IGmaker I couldn't get to run on my machine but 8Bits Fanatics uses it and he makes some really badass games so I guess that's an endorsement? You can also use it to make XBL Indie Games so that's a bonus.

Handy333
04-30-2011, 01:48 PM
Forget that, I'll upload a youtube commercial. Besides, I already started on it.

Fan made remakes of terrible games, plus or minus?

Rio
05-01-2011, 09:11 PM
Forget that, I'll upload a youtube commercial. Besides, I already started on it.

Fan made remakes of terrible games, plus or minus?
Minus. Why would people be interested in a fan game of a terrible game? <_<

jubeh
05-01-2011, 09:12 PM
Plus -- terrible games are the best games.

Handy333
05-02-2011, 01:35 AM
What if the game is very popular like mario hotel and was remade like really good and there was a youtube video of it.

Plus I love everything bad in video games, Dan Hibiki, Pichu, Mr. Game and watch, all outcasts!

jubeh
05-21-2011, 03:11 AM
Okay I was inspired by the winnitron and I want to make a really simple arcade game. Here are the basic guidelines.

-Should be incredibly easy to explain (ie yelling the rules at somebody in a noisy arcade)
-Should have some sort of "pressure" so that players cannot play forever, thus not letting other people play the game
-Should be quick, like something you'd play inbetween classes.
-Should be easy to grasp since a typical arcade machine wouldn't have a dude there to explain the game to you.

I know I want to make a wuxia game. I just don't know what kind yet. So far I have made two little dudes that can fly around and perform attacks. Flying is somewhat tricky because if you go up too sharply, you lose control of the wind and fall. This is intentional so that staying afloat is a practical skill to master in-game.

Other than that Iduno. Would a competitive game be more fun than a cooperative game? Should the game be about collecting stuff?

I'm open to ideas. I just need some inspiration.

Also just for fun I gave all the attacks ridiculous wuxia names.

Player 1

B -- DRAGON CATCHES COLD
UP+B -- HEAVEN PIERCING DRAGON SPINE
DOWN+B -- INEXPENSIVE MURDER FERRY

Player 2

B -- TIGER'S BLOW DRYER
UP+B -- TIGER STABS THE SUN
DOWN+B -- 6 THOUSAND FALLING APPLES

CypressDahlia
05-21-2011, 03:18 AM
You could just pull an Earthbound and have your dad ask you to kindly fuck off every time you call him to save. No, dad, i don't WANT to stop playing, k?

Evil_Cake
05-21-2011, 12:57 PM
u should have to collect golden cups

Fenn
05-21-2011, 03:02 PM
Can I post a link to YoYo Games (the Game Maker host site) and the GM game I created if people want to try it?

jubeh
05-21-2011, 03:06 PM
idc

Fenn
05-22-2011, 11:57 AM
If anyone wants to try it: http://www.yoyogames.com/games/91013-customgun-demo#

Keep in mind, this was created primarily to practice designing a game from scratch using GML. There's no sound (when I tried the files ruins GM and I had to redownload it) and the graphics were handmade by me in Paint. It's nothing special but does have a cool upgrade system.

You need to download the player to run it on the website.

doghateburger
05-24-2011, 05:51 AM
I'm surprise Kiiryu is not here O_o

I've tried Game making once, almost made a complete RTS engine using GM7, only the tanks can't moved if the destination is too far >_>

I've been debating whether I should start game making again, I have a few RTS ideas in mind atm.

jubeh
07-24-2011, 11:32 PM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/mockup-1.png

Okay so here's a little mock up I've created based on an idea I have.

It's hardly fleshed out but its something I've been meditating on for a while. So here goes.

The player controls The Ranger (lame I know but obviously pending) who travels to dungeons and dangerous woods to rid them of anything that could harm civilization. The ranger exists on the outskirts of society but can enter towns for supplies and stuff, and to talk to dudes.

The overworld map will simply let you choose where to go, like a fancy menu on a map. Think the map from link to the past, and how you could teleport to key locations, but with each location being its own instance.

From here you have access to every area, except maybe some endgame areas and whatnot.

One area will be the town, or central hub. Ranger goes here to get items that help him survive. Arrows, and whatnot. There's also a smith that can help him make weapons.

Other areas will be dangerous spots. The goal here is to fight along until reaching the boss. Pretty basic oldschool platformer stuff. You'll be able to go about it in any order, similar to megaman.

STUFF THAT HAS YET TO BE DECIDED

Okay I kind of wanted this to be, in its own weird way, a demake of monster hunter mixed with megaman. So enemies would drop mats that you could use to make upgrades. The problem with this is why couldn't enemies just drop coins that you can use? OTherwise it becomes a grind. Even coins are inherently grindy.

What I probably will do is just have bosses drop some sort of material you can take to the smith who will give you an upgrade of some sort.

This is good because of a few reasons. For one, you can do self imposed challenge runs by simply choosing not to take upgrades. For two, it gives you a megaman-ish way of going about the game. Taking an upgrade that is good against one boss to give yourself an easier time.

This is bad because I won't be able to make puzzles based around specific power ups because you can come across them in any order. They'd have to be secrets, like an oldschool platform game.

UNLESS every area was persistant like demon's souls where you HAD to return later with certain abilities to completely beat a stage. This kind of destroys the challenge runs, and would inflate levels most likely but seems kind of fun.

Cmon somebody talk to me about this I need to flesh this out

Fenn
07-25-2011, 10:57 AM
accidental triple post...oops

Fenn
07-25-2011, 11:07 AM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/mockup-1.png

Okay so here's a little mock up I've created based on an idea I have.

It's hardly fleshed out but its something I've been meditating on for a while. So here goes.

The player controls The Ranger (lame I know but obviously pending) who travels to dungeons and dangerous woods to rid them of anything that could harm civilization. The ranger exists on the outskirts of society but can enter towns for supplies and stuff, and to talk to dudes.

The overworld map will simply let you choose where to go, like a fancy menu on a map. Think the map from link to the past, and how you could teleport to key locations, but with each location being its own instance.

From here you have access to every area, except maybe some endgame areas and whatnot.

One area will be the town, or central hub. Ranger goes here to get items that help him survive. Arrows, and whatnot. There's also a smith that can help him make weapons.

Other areas will be dangerous spots. The goal here is to fight along until reaching the boss. Pretty basic oldschool platformer stuff. You'll be able to go about it in any order, similar to megaman.

STUFF THAT HAS YET TO BE DECIDED

Okay I kind of wanted this to be, in its own weird way, a demake of monster hunter mixed with megaman. So enemies would drop mats that you could use to make upgrades. The problem with this is why couldn't enemies just drop coins that you can use? OTherwise it becomes a grind. Even coins are inherently grindy.

What I probably will do is just have bosses drop some sort of material you can take to the smith who will give you an upgrade of some sort.

This is good because of a few reasons. For one, you can do self imposed challenge runs by simply choosing not to take upgrades. For two, it gives you a megaman-ish way of going about the game. Taking an upgrade that is good against one boss to give yourself an easier time.

This is bad because I won't be able to make puzzles based around specific power ups because you can come across them in any order. They'd have to be secrets, like an oldschool platform game.

UNLESS every area was persistant like demon's souls where you HAD to return later with certain abilities to completely beat a stage. This kind of destroys the challenge runs, and would inflate levels most likely but seems kind of fun.

Cmon somebody talk to me about this I need to flesh this out

Okay post just got deleted, must retype:

To solve ur dilema, you can have "power-ups" that are found and made a la Monster Hunter and simply enhance ur combat, and "upgrades" which are found in a predetermined location and must also be used to solve puzzles and clear the game. This allows you to also have "secret upgrades" which must be crafted like power-ups but also unlock hidden areas of the level (but aren't required to beat the main game). Coins could be required to pay the smither when crafting with mats.

Also i suggest an end-game dungeon or tower with tons of floors. Cliche, yes, but practical because it lets you continue to hunt for power-ups and use them post-story.

Fenn
07-25-2011, 11:09 AM
OKAY new idea, this one is a puzzle game. The theme is an intergalactic mining and resource facility.

Objects come down a conveyor belt, each with it's own shape and weight. You must place these objects in boxes, represented by a grid (probably 5x5 or 6x6). Once a box is filled, you click done. That box is converted into a square of a size based on how much stuff you put in it and where you put it. Potential idea: The boxes must then be placed on a cart, another grid, and shipped away. You are scored on time and using the fewest boxes.

Later on certain objects will have special properties. Radioactive materials must be kept away from other materials. Fragile materials must be placed in last. And other types.

Some modes will have a preset order of materials being sent down. Other modes will have random sets. Some orders will have few objects, others will have many. If you go too slow, the delivery line gets backed up and can eventually cause game over.

While I begin programming and spriting, any ideas, suggestions?

jubeh
07-25-2011, 11:48 PM
Fenn, don't take this the wrong way but seeing you post that made me realize that I shouldn't do it. Keep the feedback coming, though, I don't mean that in a bad way. Eliminating options is as important as coming up with new ones.

Fenn
07-26-2011, 11:15 AM
Fenn, don't take this the wrong way but

Look, I said the triple post was an accident! I promise I won't...


seeing you post that made me realize that I shouldn't do it. Keep the feedback coming, though, I don't mean that in a bad way. Eliminating options is as important as coming up with new ones.

Oh...well then no problem. I LOVE Game Design Theory, I could write you a book of feedback if you want. I'd just need more info about the game.

Also, a challenge to keep in mind with levels that can be played in any order is that they all must be (roughly) the same difficulty. Either that or have a difficulty indicator on each level.

jubeh
07-26-2011, 02:38 PM
Okay now you're just insulting my intelligence.

Fenn
07-26-2011, 03:27 PM
Dude you have no idea how often simple concepts like that slip my mind until i get to that stage in development.

CypressDahlia
07-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Hmm. Sounds like we're getting awfully close to megaman formula.

jubeh
07-26-2011, 05:37 PM
Im thinking megaman meets demon's souls here.

Hayashida
07-26-2011, 11:03 PM
That'd be cool. Or at least it sounds cool.

Delphinus
07-27-2011, 01:00 PM
Okay how about this.

A platformer with no combat and a massive sandbox world. The aim is to find out about the world, and to extend the player's skills. The skills would be stuff like gymnastics, climbing etc. and would be upgraded by reaching different points to collect appropriate 'badges'. For example getting to the top of a high mountain could earn you double-jump. The player could equip certain badges to gain new abilities such as double jump, wall jump, infinite climbing, or extended underwater breathing and would use the badges in combination to reach new areas. The player would only be able to equip a limited number of badges at any given time. By exploring temples and things that are scattered around the game world, the player could find out about the backstory; the backstory basically works as the reward for the player's efforts.

So basically, a MetroidVania game without enemies.

Fenn
07-27-2011, 03:32 PM
Okay how about this.

A platformer with no combat and a massive sandbox world. The aim is to find out about the world, and to extend the player's skills. The skills would be stuff like gymnastics, climbing etc. and would be upgraded by reaching different points to collect appropriate 'badges'. For example getting to the top of a high mountain could earn you double-jump. The player could equip certain badges to gain new abilities such as double jump, wall jump, infinite climbing, or extended underwater breathing and would use the badges in combination to reach new areas. The player would only be able to equip a limited number of badges at any given time. By exploring temples and things that are scattered around the game world, the player could find out about the backstory; the backstory basically works as the reward for the player's efforts.

So basically, a MetroidVania game without enemies.

You have no idea how often I've dreamed about this kind of game! If I was designing this game, I'd also make breaking the fourth wall a theme and plot device, but that's just me.

Also, if it's a 3D platformer, I'd love to see an MMO like this. Different classes have different mobility abilities and teamwork-based skills, which promotes finding a well-balanced team to explore the world. If it's an MMO that also means the devs can program an ever-changing, persistent world where new areas are always appearing. You could do community challenges too.

I'd love this type of game.

Delphinus
07-27-2011, 08:05 PM
According to Fenn everything I think of is solid gold.

jubeh
07-27-2011, 08:09 PM
Sounds like it'd be fun for an hour or so.

Check out Small Worlds (http://jayisgames.com/cgdc6/?gameID=9).

CypressDahlia
07-27-2011, 08:20 PM
Or Endeavor, which is exactly like that except without a sandbox aspect.

Actually...where is the sandbox aspect to that idea? o_o

jubeh
07-27-2011, 08:24 PM
P sure he just meant open world.

Also the upcoming game Journey looks to be a badass (http://www.destructoid.com/preview-journey-202052.phtml)entry into exploration games.

Fenn
07-27-2011, 09:46 PM
According to Fenn everything I think of is solid gold.

Easy there ego-boy. It's usually because your ideas are strikingly close to one's I've already thought of. Great minds think alike.

Delphinus
07-27-2011, 10:07 PM
Check out Small Worlds (http://jayisgames.com/cgdc6/?gameID=9).

Oh god, that's one of those 'becomes increasingly horrifying as you play' games, isn't it? I hate those games.

CypressDahlia
07-27-2011, 11:22 PM
Small Worlds made me feel kinda violated at the end...

jubeh
07-27-2011, 11:24 PM
My next game will probably be an exploration/box-throwing simulator of some sort.

CypressDahlia
07-27-2011, 11:38 PM
Have you played Lyle in Cube Sector?

jubeh
07-27-2011, 11:51 PM
Ha yeah actually. That and chip and dales rescue rangers are my inspirations.

scanten71-402san
08-20-2011, 06:14 AM
I develop games, but they are mostly racing games, building games or similar stuff. I do them using a Game Maker 8.0 software. Any Game Maker users here?

Fenn
08-20-2011, 12:24 PM
I develop games, but they are mostly racing games, building games or similar stuff. I do them using a Game Maker 8.0 software. Any Game Maker users here?

I do, I do! I tried a racing game but I'm a complete noob at racing AI.

Any games uploaded to YoYo I can try? I'm working on a puzzle game if you wanna test that.

Rio
08-21-2011, 08:03 PM
I'd like to work on Game Maker and RPG Maker but no time. Too bad. Maybe one day I'll get back to game making - I'd love to try out making some sims and RPGs.

Matt
08-21-2011, 11:04 PM
I was gonna make a comment about what I was doing to get into the game industry, but then I played Small Worlds.

I know there's a line between "art" games and "entertainment" games, and that this one is definitely on the "art" side, but this is the first time I've played of its type, and now I want to make games like this. I like my CoDs, but games can be so much more. My most philosophical design documents and, indeed, Small Worlds, have probably only scratched the surface.

*Looks at half-read programming books*

Down to business!

*Looks at clock*

Tomorrow.

Sylux
08-22-2011, 12:17 AM
I HATE sculpting hard edge stuff. I mean, modeling it is easy, yeah, but sculpting gives it a special touch and depth you can't get from the easy way. So why is it so damn hard?! I'm seriously considering getting 3DS Max again to set up base meshes so I don't have such a hard damn time with zsketching. @_@

wolfman
08-22-2011, 08:31 AM
does anyone here use XNA to make games?

jubeh
08-22-2011, 01:56 PM
I tried but I could never sync it up to my xbox

wolfman
08-22-2011, 02:28 PM
i havnt tried setting it up to my xbox yet because you have to pay in order to put it on your xbox :/ its like $90 a year, i just check the controls work using a wired controller

jubeh
08-22-2011, 02:35 PM
Yeah that was the issue. So you aren't able to test it on the console at all?

Matt
08-22-2011, 03:18 PM
It's the same thing with Apple products. You can make games and apps for your iWhatever, but you need to pay a yearly fee to actually test it. Of course, that's assuming you don't jailbreak the thing.

Do they make you do that with the PS3 and Wii as well? It wouldn't be any problem for corporations, but indie developers, especially those of use with very little income, are pretty much screwed if we wanna make games for anything other than PC.

wolfman
08-22-2011, 04:00 PM
i dont think you can use it on your xbox unless you subscribe, but i wanted to use XNA for windows phones as well :/ and for that its free i think, at least testing is because you can get a phone emulator

Lucifer
08-22-2011, 05:02 PM
You'll probably need a subscription to the creators club (or whatever it is they call it now) in order to get your program on the marketplace and on to the actual devices. As for testing your XBOX program on the PC, be wary as performance on the PC is likely to be higher than on the XBOX (due to limited memory and the face that the architecture of the X360 was never meant to support CLR/C# program design)

And yeah, I did (and still do) work with XNA a bit. As a matter of fact, I just went through some unfinished code I wrote like half a year ago and I did not like what I found.

Fenn
08-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Random idea: Advanced Wars TPS. 100 vs 100.

I'll let everyone criticize it then explain how I'd get it to work.

Lucifer
08-24-2011, 10:35 AM
Random idea: Advanced Wars TPS. 100 vs 100.

I'll let everyone criticize it then explain how I'd get it to work.

If you are referring to 100v100 Multiplayer, good luck with managing the bandwidth.

Fenn
08-24-2011, 05:39 PM
If you are referring to 100v100 Multiplayer, good luck with managing the bandwidth.

Well, It would probably work best on computer.

AND the controls and gameplay I have in mind are quite simplistic. It promotes coordination with teammates more than individual actions. U are just one cog in the machine.

CypressDahlia
08-24-2011, 07:23 PM
With 100 vs 100, the maps would have to be so huge in order to allow some objectives to be completed outside of a total free for all or deathmatch game mode. I honestly would not want to run across a map as huge as that.

jubeh
08-24-2011, 07:34 PM
Wait advance wars like turn based combat? Turns in that game already last way too long.

CypressDahlia
08-24-2011, 08:13 PM
naw he said TPS, so I'm guessing 3rd person shooter.

jubeh
08-24-2011, 08:20 PM
!?!?!?

Maybe he meant battalion wars then

Fenn
08-24-2011, 10:31 PM
Think Advanced Wars vehicles, and Battalion Wars gameplay except your allies are not commanded, but other players. If you're a tank, you have a cannon and machine gun. Artillery fires mortars and you have to stay still to shoot. Anti-Tanks are slow but can shoot like both an artillery or tank. I even had the idea of being able to use a Rig, and letting players resupply teammates as well as deploy and command a squad of infantry or mech troops.

I'm actually making a build on Gamemaker right now of a top-down mini-version. I'll post it soon, although at this stage all it will be is moving little stand-in sprites of a tank, recon, etc. and hitting targets.

And 50 v 50 might work better. That was the unit count max in Advanced Wars after all.

ClockHand
08-24-2011, 11:09 PM
mmorpg?

You will million of problems with that:
-Host.
-Map Size.
-Players Killing their own team.
-First time players.
-Communication.

And many others.

Lucifer
08-25-2011, 09:59 AM
mmorpg?

You will million of problems with that:
-Host.
-Map Size.
-Players Killing their own team.
-First time players.
-Communication.

And many others.

I have no idea where the mmorpg came from, but let's break that list down:

Host (Netcoding)
Is indeed going to be quite the challenge, the sheer amount of data that is being sent and received per player per update is bound to be huge, not to mention the fact that you'll want to include some server-side processes to prevent client-side cheating. It can be done (look at Novalogic's Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising).

Map Size
Need not be that big of an issue. Provided that proper techniques are used to take some of the load off of the memory units. Perhaps by seperating several parts of the map by portals that switch players between sub-arenas (this could have a good impact on netcode performance as well).

Player's killing their own team
No one can really stop griefers like that. What you can do is implement booting code and game rules to minimize the likelyhood of this happening.

First time players
I feel that this is more of a personal hatred issue against newbies than a real problem, but anyways:

It's the developers responsibility to introduce new players to the basics of their game, if they fail to do so, word-of-mouth communication will likely cause the success of this game to fall. It is NOT impossible to properly introduce players to the game and minimize 'damage' caused by newbies.

Communication
This might be a problem with player count going up to 100 (200 depending on which path you're choosing). Netcode will have to manage additional data being sent in either text or audio format (causing an increase in bandwidth requirements). You'll probably end up having some severe screen cluttering (using text messaging or soundclutter from audio messaging) unless you isolate messaging capabilities to smaller player squads within a team. This however, might end up breaking team play.

A way to solve the communication's issue is by using built in messaging menus.
For example: Player presses V -> Opens up a menu ->Player selects "Support"->Message notifier is sent to server and through server to all clients->Notifier causes built in message event to fire, causing an audio message to play and a nav pointer to be posted at the player's location.

And Many Others
Yes, there are many hurdles to overcome. But at the moment I can't be bothered to think of any. Making the game with the parameters you gave us is not impossible though.

Fenn
08-25-2011, 10:35 AM
I have no idea where the mmorpg came from, but let's break that list down:

Host (Netcoding)
Is indeed going to be quite the challenge, the sheer amount of data that is being sent and received per player per update is bound to be huge, not to mention the fact that you'll want to include some server-side processes to prevent client-side cheating. It can be done (look at Novalogic's Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising).

Map Size
Need not be that big of an issue. Provided that proper techniques are used to take some of the load off of the memory units. Perhaps by seperating several parts of the map by portals that switch players between sub-arenas (this could have a good impact on netcode performance as well).

Player's killing their own team
No one can really stop griefers like that. What you can do is implement booting code and game rules to minimize the likelyhood of this happening.

First time players
I feel that this is more of a personal hatred issue against newbies than a real problem, but anyways:

It's the developers responsibility to introduce new players to the basics of their game, if they fail to do so, word-of-mouth communication will likely cause the success of this game to fall. It is NOT impossible to properly introduce players to the game and minimize 'damage' caused by newbies.

Communication
This might be a problem with player count going up to 100 (200 depending on which path you're choosing). Netcode will have to manage additional data being sent in either text or audio format (causing an increase in bandwidth requirements). You'll probably end up having some severe screen cluttering (using text messaging or soundclutter from audio messaging) unless you isolate messaging capabilities to smaller player squads within a team. This however, might end up breaking team play.

A way to solve the communication's issue is by using built in messaging menus.
For example: Player presses V -> Opens up a menu ->Player selects "Support"->Message notifier is sent to server and through server to all clients->Notifier causes built in message event to fire, causing an audio message to play and a nav pointer to be posted at the player's location.

And Many Others
Yes, there are many hurdles to overcome. But at the moment I can't be bothered to think of any. Making the game with the parameters you gave us is not impossible though.

Yeah I don't know where the RPG half of that came in. This is good advice though, let's see how I could handle these issues...

Host: Minimize the amount of data being sent as much as possible is all I can think of. Like I said, the game is simplistic itself: each player has parameters for HP, Gas, and Ammo. Controls are no more than move, shoot, and a utility button that differs by vehicle. Graphics would be artfully simplistic.

Map Size: Will not be to scale. If you've played any Advanced Wars title you would know that the overview map, like in most strategy titles, is scaled down. In this way, the vehicles would also be proportionally large to buildings, forests, etc. The maps WOULD need to be rather big, but not as big as some of you might be envisioning. Keep in mind I would like to keep battles focused on 1 or 2 areas, not spread across the map.

Team Killing: You can't hurt your allies in Advanced Wars. So you couldn't on this game either.

First-Time Players: Tutorial? Instructions?

Communication: I actually didn't plan on using text chat. In my experience, unless players are friends or a clan, when playing online communication is inefficient for strategy building. Plus it's time consuming in the heat of battle.

What I wanted to try was a "wordless teamwork" concept. One button selects an enemy as a "priority." The more players select this enemy, the greater that enemy's priority becomes, and more players are likely to target that enemy. If you're playing as a rig, allied gas and ammo is displayed above their vehicle when running low, so you know who needs support. I also love the idea of squads, since a "unit" in Advance Wars is actually a squad of 5 in most cases. Being able to form up, like how you "join" units on the real game, and work together would be great. And if players are really into it they can use a third party chat client.

Thanks!

Lucifer
08-25-2011, 10:58 AM
It seems we agree on most things then.

Just so you know, you generally won't need to send any graphics data to the server except for the possible customisation scheme, which you would do at the beginning of the match.

So what were you going to build this on? GM?

Fenn
08-26-2011, 09:25 PM
It seems we agree on most things then.

Just so you know, you generally won't need to send any graphics data to the server except for the possible customisation scheme, which you would do at the beginning of the match.

So what were you going to build this on? GM?

Yes. In fact I've uploaded a tiny test room if you want to see how the controls would function: http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184689-advance-wars-shooter-concept

Before I go online with it, I'm also gonna program a single player mode with AI.

Nyarlathotep
08-26-2011, 11:35 PM
I would highly, highly, recommend writing the game to be multiplayer first and foremost, and write single player as a special case - one where the player either is the only thing connected to the server or where the player also runs the server at the same time.

Also, if you haven't looked into the Unity Engine, I'd seriously recommend it. It has some very nice high-level multiplayer stuff and graphically it looks better than Game Maker. The downside is that it's harder to use, but hey.

Sylux
08-27-2011, 11:39 AM
Higher quality always always always beats easier to make. :)

Fenn
08-30-2011, 02:54 PM
I would highly, highly, recommend writing the game to be multiplayer first and foremost, and write single player as a special case - one where the player either is the only thing connected to the server or where the player also runs the server at the same time.

Also, if you haven't looked into the Unity Engine, I'd seriously recommend it. It has some very nice high-level multiplayer stuff and graphically it looks better than Game Maker. The downside is that it's harder to use, but hey.

In a sense, that's what I'm gonna do; create it with multiplayer in mind but program bots to fill the void for offline, etc.

And I'm gonna stick with GM. But I'll look at Unity, maybe I'll change my mind...

Hellblaze123
08-31-2011, 12:18 PM
And I'm gonna stick with GM. But I'll look at Unity, maybe I'll change my mind...

Unity. Believe me i know GM is nice, but Unity is probably THE best Engine out atm. I used both GameMaker and Unity, and Unity is just unmatched.

Lucifer
08-31-2011, 07:46 PM
Believe me i know GM is nice, but CryEngine 3 is probably THE best Engine out atm.

FTFY ;)

Fenn
09-02-2011, 10:34 AM
Unity. Believe me i know GM is nice, but Unity is probably THE best Engine out atm. I used both GameMaker and Unity, and Unity is just unmatched.

So the basic version is free, eh? But will I be able to do as much as GM? No way in hell I'm shelling out $1500 to make an amateur arcade shooter.

Matt
09-02-2011, 01:49 PM
There's also the Unreal engine--completely free till your profits exceed $50,000 or something like that.

jubeh
09-02-2011, 02:54 PM
But will I be able to do as much as GM?

Hahaha what

Hellblaze123
09-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Unity's free version is absolutely amazing, and offers a LOT. And with being able to write your own scripts in either C#, Javascript and some shit called Boo you can really customize it. I think you'll be able to do a LOT with it. All depends on your own skills and your imagination lol

Fenn
09-02-2011, 11:51 PM
Unity's free version is absolutely amazing, and offers a LOT. And with being able to write your own scripts in either C#, Javascript and some shit called Boo you can really customize it. I think you'll be able to do a LOT with it. All depends on your own skills and your imagination lol

Shoot, I don't have any programming language. I know GM, which I taught myself, that's it.


Hahaha what

I didn't know if the free version was a miniscule sampling that enticed you to buy the full version.

Stop making fun of me, it hurts my feelings.

jubeh
09-03-2011, 12:12 AM
I wasn't making fun of you its just that comparing unity to gm is like comparing a les paul to a daisy rock.

Though apparently its hard to program 2d games with it. Can anyone confirm that.

BlueExorcist
09-03-2011, 01:20 AM
i like lolipops...

Fenn
09-03-2011, 12:08 PM
I wasn't making fun of you its just that comparing unity to gm is like comparing a les paul to a daisy rock.

Though apparently its hard to program 2d games with it. Can anyone confirm that.

Yeah I was being facetious.

If I ever get programming skill, I'll use unity. My original dream for the game was 3d. I'm doing 2d because i can make it without taking several classes first.

jubeh
11-06-2011, 03:26 AM
Im working on a first person rpg. I started with the system first because I didn't think I could do it..but I did. Now to work on mechanics.

Here's a classic sort of look kind of like dark spire's alternate graphics.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/dcrawlscreen2.png

This is more contemporary. Textures aren't mine, just a kitbash of snes sprites I stuck together. Since Idk what the theme is gonna be I can't really do graphics yet.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/dcrawlscreen-1.png

Inksprout
11-06-2011, 09:30 AM
Unity is really easy to learn and has an amazing community to help you out. There are loads of tutorials and the user manual is super easy to understand. I have literally only the most basic programming skills in Java script and I've been able to use unity. I've had to use it for my university course. Here's a sample of my last project which I think we had about 6 weeks to do, from concept and small design doc to this prototype level, if you're interested in seeing something amatuer made with unity (You just need to download the web player)

http://raws.adc.rmit.edu.au/~s3285133/Cavernology

If you actually want to do 2D a bunch of people in my course also did 2D games and they didn't have programming knowledge either. No one at university actually taught us how to use unity so it really is easy to learn from the internet.

GunZet
11-06-2011, 03:18 PM
Man. I would revive my game if I wasn't so lazy and out the loop.

Sylux
11-06-2011, 07:12 PM
Gunz whatever happened to your GM game

GunZet
11-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Same thing that happened to IIIF. Got bored of the process, procrastinated forever, and now it's sitting in a folder on my other laptop.
It also had a giant memory leak that I couldn't figure out the cause of. That halted the development big time.

Sylux
11-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Man that sucks :(

Fenn
11-06-2011, 09:57 PM
Same thing that happened to IIIF. Got bored of the process, procrastinated forever, and now it's sitting in a folder on my other laptop.
It also had a giant memory leak that I couldn't figure out the cause of. That halted the development big time.

I have literaly 4 games doing the same thing on my computer right now.

I also have a neat idea. I wanna make a point-n-click game centered around E3 2012, that includes mini-games from different genres. The idea ot to release it a month or two before E3 and gradually open up new content as it gets closer, so people have something to do while they wait.

Sylux
11-06-2011, 10:29 PM
I had an idea for a point-and-click... It evolved into a full 3D game...

jubeh
11-07-2011, 01:40 AM
I learned how to do a skydome today so I built a small city street for my game. I don't have a road texture yet but like I said before I dont have a theme so I have no idea what the graphics will really look like.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/cityscreen.png

Inksprout
11-07-2011, 01:56 AM
Jubeh you might have already heard of it but CG textures is a fairly useful resource for textures and skyboxes. Without membership you can't get the highest quality versions but some are still nice.
www.cgtextures.com

jubeh
11-07-2011, 01:59 AM
Cool but once I start graphics I'm gonna do everything by hand.

Fenn
11-07-2011, 11:03 AM
Very nice jubeh.

Inksprout
11-08-2011, 05:08 AM
Ah, cool jubeh that's dedication!

CypressDahlia
11-08-2011, 05:44 AM
Yeah he's just gonna use his hand he's not gonna use his eyes or anything.

Sylux
11-08-2011, 11:28 AM
Used to use Cgtextures but like Jubeh I've decided I need style instead of a database so I do 'em all by hand in Zbrush or Ps depending on what kind of texture I'm making for what style of model

Inksprout
11-08-2011, 09:34 PM
Yeah, I understand if its a matter of style. I really like using photo textures myself, but I'm also fairly bad at rendering textures by hand which probably explains it.

Sylux
11-11-2011, 10:19 PM
Is it just me or does 3ds Max not like putting normals on boxes?

GunZet
11-11-2011, 10:58 PM
It's just you.

Sylux
11-11-2011, 11:10 PM
Really?! Oh, yes the joy! I thoughit was just broken, but no, no! I'm just doinitrong!

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 12:22 AM
Wait jubeh are you still using GM?

jubeh
11-16-2011, 12:33 AM
Yeah

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 12:35 AM
I see, I see. I've messed around with it myself, tbh.

GunZet
11-16-2011, 12:38 AM
Wait a sec, you're doing 3D in GM? Goodluck, I haven't bothered with 3D stuff in GM since 6.1 lol. Seems it has gotten a lot better though, for you to even consider that option.

jubeh
11-16-2011, 12:51 AM
Its actually going to be easier than doing 2d in my case

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 01:02 AM
3D is pretty cool, but there are some nice 2D games. If I were to make a serious 3D game though, I'd code up my own base (Well, I'm working on one at the moment.)

Inksprout
11-16-2011, 07:22 AM
do you mean you'd make your own game engine? O_O

GunZet
11-16-2011, 07:36 AM
GM is only the base, the framework. You have to make your own engines for your own games, or use others that have already been made.

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 11:41 AM
Honestly, no-one ever really makes their own engine. I wouldn't spend ages on a physics library, graphics library, or any other library for that matter. There are enough free ones on the web for use.

Sylux
11-16-2011, 03:01 PM
Speaking of engines Jaidurn we have to make a demo of Astral before we start EA

GunZet
11-16-2011, 03:02 PM
Astral, eh? Is that like your project code-name or something.

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 03:12 PM
I'm not even sure what Astral is, tbh. I think I've heard him talk about it, but I'm such a butt I don't listen most the time.

Sylux
11-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Yeah you faggot I read you the entire plotline and showed you monster designs and level designs jeez asshole >:\

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 06:15 PM
Um Idk then man then I have bad memory.

GunZet
11-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Obvious uninterest is obvious.

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 07:59 PM
It's all because he wants me to do work for him. I'm very uninterested in work.

Sylux
11-16-2011, 08:03 PM
I'm about to get a job and spend all my wages on hiring a real programmer

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 08:10 PM
Man, I'm just yanking your chain after today I'll work on it. I deserve a break.

Sylux
11-16-2011, 08:11 PM
Bitch you been on break since 1995

jaidurn
11-16-2011, 08:12 PM
Yeah, I have, honestly. BACK TO GAME MAKING THOUGH.

So guys the havoc physics engine. Everyone should use it.

Fenn
11-17-2011, 08:45 PM
Can someone invent a machine that lets you just think of a game and the machine makes it? With all my ideas, I'd be the richest man in the world if this worked (well, second richest to whoever made the machine).

Sylux
11-17-2011, 08:49 PM
No because think of how many other people with even better ideas there are that could use it

GunZet
11-17-2011, 09:24 PM
Microsoft owns all ideas.

jubeh
11-17-2011, 09:35 PM
Can someone invent a machine that lets you just think of a game and the machine makes it? With all my ideas, I'd be the richest man in the world if this worked (well, second richest to whoever made the machine).

http://twitter.com/#!/petermolydeux

Fenn
11-18-2011, 11:09 AM
No because think of how many other people with even better ideas there are that could use it

I'm at about 0 right now.


http://twitter.com/#!/petermolydeux

Looks like a bunch of video game corrupt-a-wish posts. I can do better.

Delphinus
11-18-2011, 05:37 PM
your ideas are worthless, shithead

"angsty romance between two childhood friends" ~ Wuthering Heights
"guy reminisces about lover and bird flies in" ~ The Raven
"wall street banker kills people" ~ American Psycho
"lots of people die over a woman" ~ The Iliad
"man drops drugs, takes part in motorbike race" ~ Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
"crazy woman goes to stay with sister and sister's husband" ~ A Streetcar Named Desire

it's all about execution

Fenn
11-18-2011, 09:40 PM
your ideas are worthless, shithead

"angsty romance between two childhood friends" ~ Wuthering Heights
"guy reminisces about lover and bird flies in" ~ The Raven
"wall street banker kills people" ~ American Psycho
"lots of people die over a woman" ~ The Iliad
"man drops drugs, takes part in motorbike race" ~ Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
"crazy woman goes to stay with sister and sister's husband" ~ A Streetcar Named Desire

it's all about execution

You haven't been in my head. My ideas will freaking blow your mind.

Sylux
11-18-2011, 10:39 PM
Probably not, Fenn

Fenn
11-19-2011, 12:30 AM
Probably not, Fenn

Okay, I'll admit my ideas aren't exactly mind-blowing. It's more like they are practical. Most of the directly confront common "problems" or challenges to contemporary game design.

Sylux
11-19-2011, 01:00 AM
I want to surprise Jaidurn by legally procuring a totally free physics library similar or identical to that of Frictional's Amnesia. Any idea how to go aboot this?

Fenn
11-19-2011, 12:14 PM
^How do libraries work? I've heard of them but I've no clue.

Sylux
11-19-2011, 01:39 PM
Um well they're the instances like packed up in folders like the resources libraries in games it's like that the physics are just loaded on the spot as needed from what I understand

jaidurn
11-19-2011, 02:56 PM
Sylux do more research. You need to initialize the libraries in the code and then you need to actually tell it when and where you want the physics to act. Get it right man.

Sylux
11-19-2011, 03:01 PM
Well it was a good base explanation and btw I've never done any research on that kinda stuff ever so stfu

jaidurn
11-19-2011, 03:05 PM
Maybe you should do your research before you open your mouth. It's bad practice to just let things fly.

Sylux
11-19-2011, 03:12 PM
Stfu

GunZet
11-19-2011, 03:52 PM
Both of you shutup and make me a blockbuster top selling FPS.

Sylux
11-19-2011, 04:17 PM
No but we will make you a cool horror game demo

ClockHand
11-20-2011, 05:46 PM
After December 13, I'm going to start a exploration of this media. I haven bee watching, reading chatting, almost 90&#37; about games (mechanics, design, story, etc), and now I feel motivated to go deeper in this research of information and start looking softwares and others.

I do have ideas of what I would do (another reason about my excitement), but first I really need to play with the softwares and get use to them.

Also all this Jubeh's fault.

jubeh
11-20-2011, 06:26 PM
Owned

Matt
11-20-2011, 09:41 PM
@Fenn - Head over to the Escapist. Just once. About 99&#37; of the users there have "practical" ideas that go against the grain of mainstream FPS titles and token RPG element space marines and everything they know comes from Yahtzee Croshaw.

Also, I'm not sure "practical" is the right word for your ideas:

1. Concerned with actual use or practice
2. Guided by practical experience and observation rather than theory
3. Being actually such in almost every respect
4. Having or put to a practical purpose or use

If they're going against what already works and sells. I'd say avant-garde or risk-taking. You've got ideas and theories that you've never put into practice whereas large devs have years upon years of experience selling CoD clones. You could argue that they stick to those formulas because they couldn't take a cut in sales if a new, fresh idea didn't sell as well as the old stuff, and you'd probably be right. Nonetheless, until something changes in the industry, "practical" will mean CoD and Halo and their clones.

I'm not saying any of that in a derogatory sense. I couldn't, or I'd be insulting myself, as I want to see the same things in games as you do. Heck, my five favorite games of all time are ones that broke away from the formula or at least added something awesome to it (Bastion, Bioshock, Minecraft, Overgrowth, Recettear).

jubeh
11-20-2011, 10:15 PM
All my favorite games involve child abuse. Earthbound, no more heroes, street fighter, etc.

Matt
11-20-2011, 10:30 PM
In Postal 2, you could abuse multiple Gary Colemans, the only mortal child I've ever seen in an open-world game.

Fenn
11-20-2011, 11:01 PM
@Fenn - Head over to the Escapist. Just once. About 99&#37; of the users there have "practical" ideas that go against the grain of mainstream FPS titles and token RPG element space marines and everything they know comes from Yahtzee Croshaw.

Also, I'm not sure "practical" is the right word for your ideas:

1. Concerned with actual use or practice
2. Guided by practical experience and observation rather than theory
3. Being actually such in almost every respect
4. Having or put to a practical purpose or use

If they're going against what already works and sells. I'd say avant-garde or risk-taking. You've got ideas and theories that you've never put into practice whereas large devs have years upon years of experience selling CoD clones. You could argue that they stick to those formulas because they couldn't take a cut in sales if a new, fresh idea didn't sell as well as the old stuff, and you'd probably be right. Nonetheless, until something changes in the industry, "practical" will mean CoD and Halo and their clones.

I'm not saying any of that in a derogatory sense. I couldn't, or I'd be insulting myself, as I want to see the same things in games as you do. Heck, my five favorite games of all time are ones that broke away from the formula or at least added something awesome to it (Bastion, Bioshock, Minecraft, Overgrowth, Recettear).

Well, I'll admit I have 0 experience in the game production field. But I do have the valuable perspective of a consumer, and more than that a consumer who actively observes the opinions and desires of other gamers/consumers. My ideas usually stem from a common issue gamers have with a certain genre.

Am I overselling myself? Hell yeah, it's the internet after all.

jubeh
11-20-2011, 11:08 PM
Listening to what consumers wanted created twilight princess.

Giving fuck all what people had to say is what created skyward sword which is like the best game of all time yeah I said it.

Fenn
11-20-2011, 11:12 PM
Listening to what consumers wanted created twilight princess.

Giving fuck all what people had to say is what created skyward sword which is like the best game of all time yeah I said it.

Depends on the genre, but of course just building based on fan demand is domed to fail. It's a balance between (A) creating what you believe is best for the game, (B) considering what gamers say they want, and (B) knowing what gamers will actually appreciate. You also can't adhere to a single section of the fanbase.

ClockHand
11-20-2011, 11:29 PM
Depends on the genre, but of course just building based on fan demand is domed to fail. It's a balance between (A) creating what you believe is best for the game, (B) considering what gamers say they want, and (B) knowing what gamers will actually appreciate. You also can't adhere to a single section of the fanbase.

I don't think that could work. And I don't believe in the "I will do this game from a consumer perspective", its like saying "I'm going to do this child book from a child perspective", you need to look the games from a developer, designer, producer, director, writer and so on perspective. It's about "a game I want to make", but its hard to do that if you are just a consumer, because consumer likes many things and are not focused (and neither know very deep the many elements that made the product a good product).

Fenn
11-20-2011, 11:32 PM
Clock shut up just because I have no idea what I'm talking about and am basing everything I post on this site on uneducated speculation and theory doesn't mean you can just call me out like that.

ClockHand
11-20-2011, 11:48 PM
Like what?

Fenn
11-20-2011, 11:53 PM
Like what?

I'm a sensitive soul, you can't just tell me my ideas won't work. Let me down easy dude.

ClockHand
11-21-2011, 12:13 AM
I haven't told you that, I told you I don't believe its a good idea and told you because I believe that.

Are you in your period?

CypressDahlia
11-21-2011, 02:04 AM
Hahaha. Yeah, Fenn. ARE you IN your period?

ClockHand
11-21-2011, 02:06 AM
He is swimming in it.

Fenn
11-21-2011, 10:21 AM
Just fooling with you, bro. I was in a rare mood yesterday. Biologically, if I was having a period I'd have gone to see a doctor FAST.

Inksprout
11-21-2011, 09:09 PM
This part of the conversation made me lol, also you both have good points. A agree with clock, you have to look at the game from the perspective of the creative field you work in, but Fenn is right too you also have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. Hence play testing and market research.

ClockHand
11-21-2011, 09:58 PM
This part of the conversation made me lol, also you both have good points. A agree with clock, you have to look at the game from the perspective of the creative field you work in, but Fenn is right too you also have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. Hence play testing and market research.

I don't disagree with that, specially in the last part. But specially as I agree in the last part, the consumer point is not about "I" is about "they". You do a market test and you do it with a lot of people to have a average idea of what the consumer wants, because the developers is not the consumer anymore.

I agree with that, but I disagree with how fenn is using it.

Inksprout
11-21-2011, 10:36 PM
Yeah you need to understand the target market and what they will enjoy, but consumers are relying on you to think of things they will enjoy that they haven't experienced yet. You can't just say the consumers liked the last game so we'll just make something the same. Its the game designers job to think of something new that consumers will like. Its also really hard to think like a consumer once you start learning about how to design and make games anyway. You can't help think about whats behind the gameplay.

Fenn
11-21-2011, 11:40 PM
I can see that. I'll reconsider and revise my philosophy on the matter a bit.

Tips on programming enemy AI? I need them to be able to move around a relatively simple map in 2D, avoid obstacles, identify and seek targets, and attack while trying to avoid being attacked.

GunZet
11-21-2011, 11:44 PM
If you're using GM, I could help with that. Otherwise I have no idea.

Fenn
11-21-2011, 11:59 PM
If you're using GM, I could help with that. Otherwise I have no idea.

Yep, GML Pro/Normal, or whatever the best version is.

GunZet
11-22-2011, 12:13 AM
Alright, well basically what you want to do when it comes to GML, is either put the code directly in the enemies themselves, or make scripts. And use lots of variables...I haven't coded GML for a while now so I'll just take a bit of AI code from my frozen project.

Create Event

life=5
if instance_exists(obj_turret_parent)
turret=instance_nearest(x,y,obj_turret_parent)
alarm[0]=choose(20,40,60)
do_=choose(1,2,3)
canshoot=true
canshoot2=false
alph=0
on_fire=0

Step Event

direction=image_angle
if life<1 instance_destroy()
//do:1=target the base only do:2=target turrets do:3=go away
if instance_exists(obj_turret_parent)
{
turret=instance_nearest(x,y,obj_turret_parent)
point=instance_nearest(x,y,object19)
if do_=3
{
scr_grad_turn(point,2)
}

if do_=2
{
scr_grad_turn(turret,5)
if canshoot=true and distance_to_object(turret)<350
{
canshoot=false
canshoot2=true
alarm[2]=15
bul=instance_create(x+lengthdir_x(20,image_angle), y+lengthdir_y(20,image_angle),obj_enemy_bullet)
bul.move1=turret.x
bul.move2=turret.y
bul.direction=random(10)+image_angle-5
if canshoot2=true and distance_to_object(turret)<350
{
canshoot2=false
alarm[1]=15
bul=instance_create(x+lengthdir_x(20,image_angle), y+lengthdir_y(20,image_angle),obj_enemy_bullet2)
bul.move1=turret.x
bul.move2=turret.y
bul.direction=random(10)+image_angle-5}}}

if do_=1
{
scr_grad_turn(object8,5)
if canshoot=true and distance_to_object(object8)<350
{
canshoot=false
canshoot2=true
alarm[2]=15
bul=instance_create(x+lengthdir_x(20,image_angle), y+lengthdir_y(20,image_angle),obj_enemy_bullet)
bul.move1=turret.x
bul.move2=turret.y
bul.direction=random(10)+image_angle-5
if canshoot2=true and distance_to_object(turret)<350
{
canshoot2=false
alarm[1]=15
bul=instance_create(x+lengthdir_x(20,image_angle), y+lengthdir_y(20,image_angle),obj_enemy_bullet2)
bul.move1=turret.x
bul.move2=turret.y
bul.direction=random(10)+image_angle-5}}}
}

Same Step Event

if do_=1 and speed>1
speed-=.2
if do_=1 and speed<1
speed+=.2

if instance_exists(obj_turret_parent)
{
if do_=2 and speed>2 and distance_to_object(turret)>120
speed-=.2
if do_=2 and speed<2 and distance_to_object(turret)>120
speed+=.2
//this code causes the enemy to fly away when too close
if do_=2 and distance_to_object(turret)<90
do_=3
}

if do_=3 and speed>8
speed-=.2
if do_=3 and speed<8
speed+=.2

if alph>0
alph-=.2
if alph<0 alph=0

if on_fire=1
{
if life<=0 instance_destroy()
scr_particle_fire3()
life-=.5
}

Alarm0 Event

do_=choose(1,2,3)
alarm[0]=choose(40,60,80)

Basically, it gives the illusion of AI. Ugh, you know what. I'll just try my hand at coding a simple example for you, lol. And Pro is always what you should work with.

Fenn
11-22-2011, 10:38 AM
This was helpful, that was a very clear code. The only difficulty that remains is giving it some illusion or semblance of smarticles. You covered some of that in your code.

It's really just object avoidance I'm stuck on. Like: you have a square between you and your target. Do you turn right or left to get around it faster? When/Where do you start turning? How close do you get to the object before turning? What if another object gets in the way?

I'm not expecting to find a simple solution to this. At the moment I'm just gonna aim for reliable avoidance, even if it isn't efficient.

GunZet
11-22-2011, 03:43 PM
Basically what you wanna do, is give your enemies a set of actions it can take based on the conditions.
For example:
Too close to shoot an explosive weapon without damage? Try to run to nearest cover to shoot, or let's say it knows the killing range, so it only backs up a little bit, then shoots.
Or maybe it's almost dead anyway, so it goes into a suicidal mode and shoots anyways, killing itself and probably you with it. Etc. etc. It's much easier for when you're making a TDS, but thinking of AI like this usually works better than using a grid method and data stacks. It's easier for you to control.

Only thing that takes a while is coding each of those actions separately.

Fenn
11-22-2011, 05:32 PM
Basically what you wanna do, is give your enemies a set of actions it can take based on the conditions.
For example:
Too close to shoot an explosive weapon without damage? Try to run to nearest cover to shoot, or let's say it knows the killing range, so it only backs up a little bit, then shoots.
Or maybe it's almost dead anyway, so it goes into a suicidal mode and shoots anyways, killing itself and probably you with it. Etc. etc. It's much easier for when you're making a TDS, but thinking of AI like this usually works better than using a grid method and data stacks. It's easier for you to control.

Only thing that takes a while is coding each of those actions separately.

I am making a TDS, what luck! So I set variables, and check them, and depending on the result change the actions of the AI?

foxhound
11-22-2011, 05:56 PM
Does anyone now how to work with the Program Blender?

jubeh
11-22-2011, 05:59 PM
Yeah bro just put all those programs in there and put the lid on so they dont splash on you

Sylux
11-22-2011, 06:58 PM
Does anyone now how to work with the Program Blender?

Do you want me to make you a newbie's tutorial? I can make like 10 hour videos for YouTube.

jaidurn
11-24-2011, 12:43 AM
So guys, I have a huuuuuuge problem, well besides Syrux.


Error I'm getting:
13 H:\Dev-Cpp\Projects\DirecX 11 Projects\main.cpp cannot convert `const wchar_t*' to `const CHAR*' for argument `2' to `int MessageBoxA(HWND__*, const CHAR*, const CHAR*, UINT)'

Code:
#include <windows.h> // include the basic windows header file

// the entry point for any Windows program
int WINAPI WinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance,
HINSTANCE hPrevInstance,
LPSTR lpCmdLine,
int nShowCmd)
{
// create a "Hello World" message box using MessageBox()
MessageBox(NULL,
L"Hello World!",
L"Just another Hello World program!",
MB_OK);

// return 0 to Windows
return 0;
}


I'm coding in C++ by the way.

Nyarlathotep
11-24-2011, 02:49 AM
Try taking out the 'L' that you have before those two strings - it's converting them into const wchar_t * arguments, but you just want them to be const char *.

wchar_t, by the way ,is short for 'wide char'.

jaidurn
11-24-2011, 03:21 AM
I did end up removing the L, but then I thought about how mundane that script actually was and scrapped it and continued with some other stuff. Thanks, man!

jubeh
03-04-2012, 07:13 PM
Working on a baseball game. I doubt it will ever be finished since it is honestly been a huge challenge so far and I don't understand physics for shit. The batting is based on pawapuro or yakyuu spirits where you move the bat cursor and that decides how you make contact with the ball.

Pitch
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/basescreen2.png

And a hit
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/basescreen1.png

jubeh
03-21-2012, 04:40 AM
How do you guys feel about this as an easy alternative to random battles.

When a battle is triggered you just get this text prompt saying, "You spot a coyote." With a choice to engage it or flee. Whether you actually can tell what you are spotting could be based on your knowledge of the enemies or a stat. So if you had never encountered an enemy before it'd say, "You see an angry dog like thing." Since the game would be based on hunting animals for materials as opposed to grinding for experience, it would be like a less frustrating version of pokemon tall grass.

GunZet
03-21-2012, 05:02 AM
Sorta sounds like Metro mixed with Pokemon mixed with Earthbound mixed with survival mixed with text adventure mixed with-

Sounds cool I guess. It all really comes down to the way you decide to execute it.

jubeh
03-21-2012, 11:11 AM
It all really comes down to the way you decide to execute it.

http://i.imgur.com/rzyyg.gif

Has anyone noticed the lack of cowboy rpgs. Whats the deal with that. I feel like I personally need to rectify this.

Hell_Baron
03-21-2012, 02:18 PM
that would be delightfull.
AND DRAGONS, DON'T FORGET THE DRAGONS!!

Sylux
03-21-2012, 02:34 PM
Did Red Dead not count for you

jubeh
03-22-2012, 01:01 AM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/screen1-1.png

LeonVictor2012
03-22-2012, 02:01 AM
Hello, i am leon Victor. what is your best video games?

jubeh
03-22-2012, 03:11 AM
Are you for real.

Another wip screen

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/Jubeh/screen2-1.png

ClockHand
03-22-2012, 03:13 AM
lend me some money.

LeonVictor2012
04-07-2012, 08:47 AM
I think this is relevant:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits

Also, I'm a complete noob at pixel art, though I really want to learn. Game Maker is fun to play with, but I'm learning Python at the moment. Maya and 3DS and such are still beyond me.

It’s fun to create a game with help of Game Developer and get the best and creative game to play.

Matt
04-23-2012, 10:33 PM
I finally did it. I started up a blog on Wordpress to get feedback on my game as I develop it:

http://consoleout.wordpress.com/

I've got the story down for the most part, but my programming skills are amateur at best. So I'll be working on that quite a bit in the next week or so. Jubeh, you work in Game Maker, right? If so, would you recommend it or is there something better (for a 2D game)?

jubeh
04-24-2012, 12:21 AM
Its the easiest. Every time I try writing something in python I start thinking about how much easier it would be to do in game maker and then switch over. It has almost no portability so just get used to the idea that people can only play your games on windows.

GunZet
04-24-2012, 12:35 AM
There's a Game Maker 8.0 for Mac. Though I don't know what's missing, or how good/stable it is. 8.0 is the last version I've used.

jubeh
04-24-2012, 12:39 AM
Does it still require you buy that version also like it did before

Matt
04-24-2012, 03:12 PM
Don't all of the Game Makers have a lite and a paid version? I bought 6.1 back when that was the newest thing and lost my code, so now I have to buy it again unless I can get my game working with the lite version.

jubeh
04-24-2012, 03:37 PM
Even if you could make the game without pro features distributing it would be awful because the logo pops up and everything

Matt
04-24-2012, 05:29 PM
Dog ban it. Well, as long as I upgrade before I distribute, I should be all right. Maybe I'll have enough blog followers by then to open up some kind of donations.

Have you ever finished/distributed a game?

jubeh
04-24-2012, 05:32 PM
No and you should buy pro as soon as possible. If you want to use surfaces, the ability to modify sources at run-time, or any extensions you will need it.

Edit: Wait holy shit you can't even do data structures in game maker lite.

GunZet
04-24-2012, 06:35 PM
I freaking hate surfaces. They just never do what I want them to, ever.

marieweaver132
04-27-2012, 07:01 AM
You Guys have described very deeply In few point about game Development. Such a great post….

Sylux
04-28-2012, 12:10 AM
Noooooot even.

Delphinus
05-01-2012, 01:46 PM
I'm actually working on a game at the moment. Sort of a real-time roguelike. I've got limited random generation (atm it only generates forests), but the programming has been fairly hardcore. On the plus side, the world is now completely persistent after it's generated, and it generates itself as you explore it. With no lag!

I won't be able to work on it much during the week, since I have exams for the next month and a half, but I'm hoping I can still have enough progress to show you guys some screenshots that don't look like butt, sometime soon.

jaidurn
05-01-2012, 02:02 PM
What language are you using?

Delphinus
05-01-2012, 02:06 PM
Oh, I'm using Game Maker. I used to hate it, but handling OpenGL functions (in C++ or VB) is a massive pain in the ass. GML lets me focus on making the game itself work rather than having to program the graphics engine and the sound engine and the game logic. It's just a pity that GML is such a primitive language syntactically.

jaidurn
05-01-2012, 02:18 PM
Woah, that's rad. So is it just a small 2D game then?

GunZet
05-01-2012, 02:21 PM
Game Maker is the equivalent of something like Google Sketchup. It lets you concentrate on creativity, concept, and function, rather than the technical details. Though it's built up enough to let you dig properly into technical aspects. I've seen some crazy shit done with GM.

Sylux
05-01-2012, 04:59 PM
Jaibutt and I are workin on a Legend of Zelda-Vindictus crossover. Honestly the Vindictus gameplay is fun but so stagnant, and with so very few interesting enemies. We're gonna rip the control scheme with the exception of LoZ type items, along with Fiona's attack scheme and use more cartoonish graphics and give it, y'know, an actual plot.

jaidurn
05-01-2012, 05:00 PM
Wait what since when

Sylux
05-01-2012, 05:10 PM
You are not necessary... Yet. It's just me doing ALL THE FUCKING MODELS.

jaidurn
05-01-2012, 05:14 PM
Oh okay, I thought we just hadn't communicated very well. Okay yeh, so sybutt and I are making a game.

Sylux
05-01-2012, 05:50 PM
Btw get $10 so I can text u cool vg stuffs

jaidurn
05-01-2012, 05:51 PM
Uh how about you text me it right now.

Matt
05-01-2012, 09:01 PM
Game Maker wasn't designed with animation in mind (no layers or onion skinning). Flash is still the best for anything more elaborate than a few pixels, I guess.

Working on a side-scrolling assassin RPG and toying with the idea of leveling down as the game progresses due to injuries and mental stress. Also making a symbolic game about a girl and a hurricane and divorce and such, but the assassin RPG's mechanics are more fun. Dodging stuff versus stealth, throat-slitting, and real-time combat. Tough choice.

GunZet
05-01-2012, 09:47 PM
You can create some badass animations using Game Maker. You just have to create a workflow for yourself. It's not all too hard. Kiiryu would show you how it's done if he was still around, lol.

Matt
05-02-2012, 10:05 AM
I'd love to see a way to do it, as I started using Game Maker because it had everything there. Without onion skinning or layers, though, it's just trial-and-error and is the very reason I despise doing pixel art for games.

EDIT: I might have found a way. I can copy the character from one frame and fill in her silhouette in the next, then treat the silhouette like any other onion skin.

Delphinus
05-02-2012, 02:02 PM
EDIT: I might have found a way. I can copy the character from one frame and fill in her silhouette in the next, then treat the silhouette like any other onion skin.

Download Graphicsgale Free (http://download.cnet.com/GraphicsGale/3000-2192_4-21473.html). It's a favourite in the pixel art community, and the free version has most of the features of the full version. It includes onion skinning and other tools to help with sprite animation. Then simply import the sprites into Game Maker. I use it to produce horrifying programmer art.

Yeah, I might look for an artist or something in the near future.

Delphinus
05-05-2012, 05:03 PM
I hate to double post (no I don't) but I keep getting distracted while making my game. I added knockback effects to attacks and now I'm having hilarious fun bouncing my test enemies around like beach balls.

jaidurn
05-05-2012, 05:23 PM
So is your game 3D or 2D?

Delphinus
05-06-2012, 07:45 AM
2d. Going for a similar feel to the old zelda games, both graphically and combat-wise, but with roguelike elements. Ideally the end product might look something like this:

http://gematsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Zelda-Link-to-Past.jpg

Sylux
05-06-2012, 07:40 PM
Hey that's p funny that you posted that. A few days ago I got a SNES emulator and started doing a Let's Play on Link's Awakening.

Sylux
05-12-2012, 10:20 AM
Hate to double post, but how would I go about actually writing up a video game? Should I go prose narrative, or script?

GunZet
05-12-2012, 04:51 PM
Pretty much everything. You don't just hop in and write a game like a book.

jaidurn
05-12-2012, 04:56 PM
Well shoot. I better change my tactics.

Delphinus
05-21-2012, 11:22 AM
So GameMaker is a piece of shit and I'd rather build an engine from scratch. Gonna make a simple roguelike in Allegro to learn that framework and the basics of roguelikes, then start on the full project.

KakashiTheSharingan
05-21-2012, 03:36 PM
Have anyone tried Unity3d? That's I'm using and Blender. I'm working on a video game as well.