Matt's Art (p34: Hey, I finished something!)

[CypressDahlia]

whoa it's tiny did you draw it at that size.

[Matt]

Yes. I had a 800x600 Photoshop canvas zoomed in to about 500% and was just in awe at how much better I was doing than usual.

Then I zoomed out.

But, hey, at least it's different than my usual stuff, so I figured it was worth a post.

[Matt]

Here, I did this one thing with value and stuff:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5610/4valuepainting.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/4valuepainting.png/)
I'm not sure what to think of it.

[Sylux]

p cool just needs detail I guess the lips and eyes look a bit flat

[Gedeon]

Pretty good but as Sly says it needs more defining. Everything is soft and mushy right now, but still pretty good.

[Matt]

...and here I am, posting pictures a month apart.
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4704/7naomi.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/7naomi.png/)
Was intended to be a character (Naomi, if that means anything to you), but meh. I need to start using reference again. If I go this direction, though, I'll sacrifice cutesy moe for serious semi-realism...

I'll take it. It fits the tone of what I'm writing these days a lot better, anyway.

[Renzokuken]

Dude that one on the left is so good, wow.

There's something odd about the one on the far left. How is their neck supposed to be? At an angle or straight because it looks somewhat long.

That top one's neck, to me, looks slightly too thin- where it dips in (though it could just be me being fussy; I'm really out of practice so...)

Otherwise they're sweet. That left one. I can't stop looking at it. I really like it.

[Sylux]

Oh hey you're back. The looking-up face is a bit wonky, but the other ones are super groovy. You been improvin', dawg. :3

[Gedeon]

The second one....the looking up.
The jaw line is not aligned to the eye-line.
Pretty nice job on the one on the left!

[Matt]

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6280/8heads.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/528/8heads.png/)
Looks worse than the last set. Practice, though. Maybe I should just put this kind of thing in the exercise thread.

[Sylux]

just the upward one is really awkward. idk how to draw them either though so I can't crit you. the others look fine

[doghateburger]

Well, youre here to get critiques right, so you got them in the right thread C:

The middle one is good. As for the one to the left, sometimes its easier to break things down into simply shapes, I know youre working from reference, but it helps to break them down to understand the core fundamentals of how shapes form the basic figure.

Red line
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/phantomking/8heads.png
Keep it up dawg C:

[Matt]

Thanks for the redline. And for reminding me to break things down.

Testing to see if linking to the gallery works:
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/05/Matt-oekaki-siren_500.png?t=4fc18fd55e7c8

I've been doing a lot of reference stuff and realism recently, so I figured I should relax and draw anime again. So there's Siren, drawn on the Oekaki doodle board.

[Matt]

First Saimoe entry.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/05/Matt-kasey-in-a-bikini-fixed.png?t=4fc396edcf16e
EDIT: Updated, removed terrible sand effects, added lines, fixed some little things.

[mimi_kiel]

Why isn't there any outline?

[Matt]

I locked the opacity on my line layer and colored the lines the darkest color of the area they covered. It looks a bit rough, but my lines were pretty bad to begin with.

[mimi_kiel]

Well covering the lines with another color isn't a very good Idea, At first I thought OC's Kyoshka (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3205/kyoshka.jpg) doesn't have a black outline but I was wrong when I examined it.

It just have a very thin line about 1 or 0.8 pixels and the opacity of the line is about 50% or lower, that made it look like it have a different coloring effect.

still, you did a good job with it, I like your choice of scene

[Matt]

I'll add an outline and update it again, then.

[Sylux]

uguu~♥

[mimi_kiel]

err.. you didn't have to.. it's pretty hard to outline that now.

I'm just saying you should try out how OC do it the next time, or next next time you color something.
it doesn't have to be now.

Just remember when coloring a pic it's better to make it thin lines so the color stands out more.


uguu~♥

I'm worried about you Sylux.

[Matt]

Uguu. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT2GRpwwS8M)

Updated, added lines.

[toast]

Not sure if it's because it's still a work in progress, but you should definately work a lot more on the background. Try and use to refs and try to mimic the textures you see, like for the trees and the clouds. Looking interesting so far though, keep working at it!

[Shnorkel]

Aw man now I'll never have a chance of winning!
Something about her face is really charming, mabye it's the eyes, it seems as if they're smiling as well!
The hair is also done really good, and the background looks simple but great. I'm digging this.

[Matt]

@Toast - I'm working on the background as I type. I'm not sure how detailed I want it, but you're right: it's way too rough as it stands.

@Shnorkel - First of all, I like your username. Secondly, I have no idea what individual elements make her face look the way it does. The eyes look happy because the bottom lashes are arched slightly upward. The charming aspect--I dunno how I did that. I'll figure it out eventually.

EDIT: Oekaki pic. Naomi:
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-oekaki-naomi.png

[Matt]

I guess I'll go ahead and double post.

Saimoe entry, complete with my excuse for an expression chart.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-saimoe-swimsuit-edition-kasey-s-bio.png?t=4fdba0d3b740c
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-saimoe-swimsuit-edition-kasey-s-expression-chart.jpg?t=4fdba116dbf71
I think it was Reg who gave me the idea of making the expression chart more than a bunch of expressions.

On GB, Raz pointed out that Kasey as a character isn't really moe. In the initial picture, sure, but with the bio and story, she's not really a moe character at all. I'll fix that next season. Till then, I'll just see if she gets any votes.

[eltoroguaco]

hi, that's nice! It's cute! It's almost the same pose as I planned for my 2nd entry xD Good thing I didn't make that then, aye?

I will wait on posting mine official until the deadline. Just in case :P

[ram]

Nicely expression chart.

[ScarletHue]

Ah pretty cool, I like the way you drew her hair in the big picture.

[Matt]

@Eltoroguaco - I don't think having the same pose as another competitor would lower either of our chances of winning unless it was blatant tracing.
@Ram and Scarlet - Thanks.

Here's a couple comics, since I haven't done this sort of thing in awhile. Pending title is Siren Song, and it's what I draw to procrastinate on my novel. The comic and the novel are in the same universe, so at least I can worldbuild while I procrastinate.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-001-jpg-8.jpg?t=4fdf4712e7d40
The text if you can't read it:
p1
Illyana: Hey, Siren... I was wondering...
Siren: About what?
Illyana: Why do angels' ears face downwards?
Siren: Oh...

p2
Siren: It lets us hear what's going on under us when we're flying, I'd assume.
Siren: Now, why do your ears face forwards?

p3
Siren: If every race is designed to be functional with no useless elements, how do forwards-facing ears contribute to a dryad's design?
Illyana: What if your ears face down to symbolize you angels never listen, and the rest of the fay are open to discussion?

p4
Illyana: If you have any objections, I'm all ears.
Siren: I wish you would point out my flaws before you get the chance to work them into a pun.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-002-jpg-8.jpg?t=4fdf4752cab67
The text if you can't read it:
p1
Illyana: Siren! I have a question!
Siren: Do you now?

p2
Illyana: You're technically fay with fiend fangs, right?
Siren: Yup.
Illyana: What do fay taste like?

p3
Illyana: Or are blood angels more fay than fiend?
Illyana: Or do you not even know?
Illyana: Or do you--

p4
Siren: Nom.
Illyana: --Fyaah!

p5
Illyana: Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Off. Off. Off. Off. Off.
Illyana: You are invading my personal bubble.

p6
Illyana: You're tearing a muscle!
Siren: Where?

p7
Illyana: What if you hit an artery? You could have killed me! What if my--

p8
Illyana: I do so have muscle!
Siren: Nope.

[eltoroguaco]

@Eltoroguaco - I don't think having the same pose as another competitor would lower either of our chances of winning unless it was blatant tracing.

Doesn't matter cause I never got time to make 2 entries anyway :P

[Bacon_Barbarian]

Everything's pretty sketchy, but for the most part it looks good. The one thing that I notice that is a bit of a problem is that you're starting to fall into the trap of snout-face when drawing people in profile. Try and define people's jaws a bit more.

[Matt]

Define jaws? Done.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-random-guy-3.png?t=4fdfbc422e0da
EDIT: Fixed eye position, shading, and some hair.

[Sutari]

I think the top/back of his head is a little long, like his skull is abnormally shaped underneath. And his ear is just a little big. But your painting style is reminding me of iccys, and i think its the stringy highlights in the hair (which isnt bad at all, that style is awesome)

[Matt]

I think I can fix that. The head, that is. I'm not sure I'm skilled enough to get the ear down to size without messing the rest up.
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/710/oguy.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/oguy.png/)

[eltoroguaco]

looks better! Though, there's still one thing I like to point out there. His chin and eyes don't match up. the chin and mouth is placed as they're pointing down while the eyes and the top of his head appear as they're pointing up (in this picture, straight forwards). It would work if the mouth was open. But since it isn't it looks rather weird. Though it may just be me XP

Really nice art though! Looks realistic in its way and it really well coloured and shaded.

[Gaff]

Eh, I dunno - the facial features look okay to me, but it's hard to tell with the eye when it's obscured by his hair. Personally, I think I'd move the tip of his nose a little further out from his face, but I don't think it's a big deal.

His neck seems very long though - to my mind, his shoulders ought to be higher and closer to his head. It's probably a bit stockier than what you're after, but have a look at this if it helps any:

http://www.posemaniacs.com/archives/1621

[Matt]

Thanks, both of you.

Derpy strip of Siren Song, mostly exposition via dialogue. I think the text is easy enough to read this time, so I won't type it all out again.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-003-1-2.jpg
It looked much cleaner on paper.

[Matt]

Cover concept. Dropped because it's horrible by design standards, not even taking the art level into consideration. Colored and stuff because I was half done anyway.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-siren-song-cover.jpg
Siren Song is brutal fantasy. The colors are too saturated for the genre and there's absolutely no point to their positioning or poses (or lack of). It's character-driven, but I feel like the characters are out of place. Illyana, the dark-skinned girl, is supposed to be thirteen. I think some realism studies of children's facial structure are in order. That aside, the other girl, Siren, needs to be a bigger part of the picture if she's going to be there at all.

That aside, Illyana's face and head are on two different planes.

[Bacon_Barbarian]

You sort of critiqued your own stuff there, Matt. I must say I like the hair. With a few less lines and a bit more shading it would look super-fantastic. I think.

[Gaff]

As a cover composition, I don't think it's too bad, but (unless you intended to put in a background) I would crop it much, much closer to the two figures - maybe even just into a portrait shot showing head & shoulders.

From a graphic design point of view though, please don't put a bright red line around black text like that. I don't mind Trajan as a typeface, but that red stroke is horrible. If you want the text to stand out, I'd suggest using a lighter colour in the same range as the background.

[Rubisko]

^This. Put some cool patterns arranged in simple shapes in the background and change the outline color of the title, maybe the pink on the dress of the angel would do?

[Matt]

@Bacon - Maybe I should stop doing that. I like critiques.

@Gaff - To be honest, I know nothing--at all--about logo design or fonts or anything. I just know Comic Sans = bad and publishers like Times New Roman or Courier New. That said, I thought, after posting, that I hated the outline.

@Rubisko - I hate it when you refer to a post above you just to find out that you're on the top of the next page. Anyway, I'll keep that in mind. I'd like to keep a dark fantasy aesthetic while kinda not making it too dark. After all, my entire premise for Siren Song is "brutal fantasy for all ages." I'm not sure how to balance pink with a bunch of darker colors and keep that theme at the same time.

Playing with lineless coloring:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7486/sirencolordoodle.png

[Sunny]

That's really cool! The cheek seems a bit too puffed out/round but otherwise, I love the colors and the style.

[Matt]

Noted. I thought the problem was that her head was too tall, but I suppose it's proportional. Stylistically, I just don't like it, considering how old the character is supposed to be.

Oekaki stuff with Shipainter:

Derpy angle, derpy coloring.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-oekaki-naomi-2_500.jpg

Derpy head-body proportion.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-oekaki-illy_500.png

Derpy girl on the right.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-the-assassin-s-sister_500.png

[Cloudy]

those are great

[WhenRabbitsAttack]

y'know what i thought after reading your comments on those photos?

derp,derp,derp .

seriously though, they're good. i really like how you draw the hair :)

[Gedeon]

i like those two more realistic ones :3
Practice mOAR perspective and foreshortening. The girl on or right in the last pic looks all kinds of wonky. Body-more specifically the arms proportions are bad. the face....is...i dunno...too low...not matching where the head is looking... the first and second really good. really like the first

[Matt]

@Cloudy - Thanks.
@WRA - You have no idea how much I love long hair.
@Ged - Practice will commence. I think that last one would have been better off if I'd completely redrawn the girl on the right.

Well, guys, I think it's time I drew something new. Instead of fantasy girls for this post, I'll draw...
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-boriol.png
...a fantasy guy. Even my painting is sketchy. I'll formally finish something one of these days.

[Bacon_Barbarian]

That hair. It's really well done. There are two flaws that I've noticed though. The first is his shirt. As baggy as it is in the shoulders, it shouldn't be that tight on his abs. The second thing is that the position of his right (our left) arm is just ... Off. It's sort to stumpy. All in all it's a really nice picture.

[JJJorgie]

This looks great! Besides what BB said, I think the thumb of the sword wielding hand should be showing. Wonderful job!

[Gedeon]

^^ that and i think his neck is too wide for his head.

[Matt]

@Bacon - I started the muscle bunch too far up on the arm and the shirt... I don't even know why I did that. I'll fix it next time I draw a guy.
@JJJorgie - You're right. I should study proper long sword grips.
@Gedeon - I'm actually not too sure about that one. It's all under his hair, but his neck is about right in comparison to the original guidelines. I suppose I'd need to make the hair curve around the head to show that it's actually there.

-

Thirty minute color sketch in Sai. I think I could make this look pretty awesome if I finished it, but I'll take critiques and fix errors in the composition and coloring before I go any further.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-color-sketch.jpg
-I could expand the canvas and move the two foreground characters into focus, for one thing.
-I could move any distracting elements in the background away and focus on the characters.
-I could push time forward and draw a fight scene rather than a boring standoff.
-I could establish a light source. That's generally a good thing to do.
-I could study anatomy and grab some references so that I don't completely fail when I go back to finish this picture.

[WhenRabbitsAttack]

first thing i notice when i look at this picture: TOTALLY EPIC WINGS. sryusly
i think it would give the chracters more grounding if you fleshed out the background more. it's sorta blobby at the moment and the shapes are too abstract to determine what they are.

other than a slight paint smudge on the left guy's forearm, i think your good to go :)

[Rubisko]

If I could make a few suggestions:
The wings could be overlapped by trees/overlap trees to give a good sense of space.
I would move the guy in the foreground into the picture, and give him a more aggressive stance, because the single arm hanging to the left just seems a little bit too weak for the narrative you try to achieve.
The blue on the guy's shirt is almost the same blue as in the background of this forum, while the rest of the colors are very monochromatic red. Maybe you could find a blue color that is in better unity with the reds, or just work in some colors from in between in the picture.

I like the symmetry of the wings and how they lead you to the girl's face

[ScarletHue]

I wouldn't change much about the sketch you've drawn. I like how it focuses in on the character in the middle. It's a great idea.
The anatomy of the arm in the fore needs to be spot on. And I feel like the background will need a fair bit of detail to make this realise its potential.

[Matt]

I've got all three comments saved for when I decide to finish that picture. Until then, more fantasy:
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-come-on-get-up_500.png
Shipainter.

[Gedeon]

pretty good. Not sure whats going on with the left(our right) arm. I dont think she could hold her head like that.....if she is even holding her head. the anatomy is solid, the right( our left) leg looks wonky, actually both look too far from each other concerning the angle they are in. And the skirt should fit more with the perspective. THe way it is it looks like we are seeing the skirt directly in front of us in our eye level.

Pretty good mate.

[Matt]

Thanks, Ged.

Officially on a fantasy fix. I've never liked the "half-naked elf girl stops to pose in the middle of a bloody battle" pictures, but I kinda did one:
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-dryad-girl.png
My preferred genre is brutal fantasy, but I can stray from my preferences a bit.

[JJJorgie]

This looks superb!!! The coloring is awesome! I love it! The only thing I can say is that the eyes should be the same height (the far eye is shorter than the closer one).

[Gedeon]

Other then the fact that the face looks too wide, great!

[Demonfyre]

I think you could raise the eyebrow over the right eye slightly, other than that it looks great :D Such an awesome character design :)

[Matt]

@JJJorgie - I shoulda seen that. Thanks.
@Ged - Kay.
@Demonfyre - Oh, I can do better than that. Like this:
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7938/naomiandmiola.png

Oh, and some sketches of faces:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7392/37794186.jpg

Quick question: when I scan an image into Photoshop, my scanner will do its thing, but then Photoshop will sit there for about three minutes before finally displaying my picture. Anyone have any idea how to fix it? Already defragged and did a registry clean-up.

[Demonfyre]

Oh wow, that first image looks great! You have drawn the eyes wonderfully :D All I can really suggest is on the left character the shading around her breasts looks a bit odd imo, I think it's due to the way you blurred it but I'm no expert so I couldn't say for sure. Those head sketches also look great :D

For your question, I have no idea as I'm very new to photoshop unfortunately :/

[Matt]

When I went to scan this upcoming image, those heads from a month ago were still in my scanner. I think I'll be drawing a lot more in the coming days, though. I only stopped drawing for a long time because I compared myself to people who were far more experienced than me, and now that I don't do that anymore, I can draw again. It's awesome how that works.

Pretty much my brainstorming process:
http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=178&d=1347593744
Text on right side, since it got cut off:


Maybe remove magic altogether . . . how important is it to the story?
Should she lose this fight? Well, yeah. She's crippled. She'd have avoided the fight to begin with.
Magic can stay. It's vital for a few elements, after all.
Wait. She can't avoid the guard. That means she'd die. Ah . . . let's redo this scene.
-
If she's got PTSD, but no one's studied it or named it, Miola has to do therapy without knowing she's doing therapy.
No . . . it's better to let the tension grow between them. Then the plot can be more personal and less violent.

[Regantor]

I have no idea how to fix that photoshop problem, but then again, I always just scan right onto the HD and open it in photoshop later anyways...

Also, I dunno if it's your slightly looser style, but the flavor of that page seemed really engaging... Like it could have been a detective graphic novel or something. It's interesting to see how your train of thought goes, anyway.

[BunnyVoid]

wow matt, your brainstorming process is really detailed. Its inspiring :)
hope to see more of this. The dialogue reminds me of the manga Bakuman. They're like plotting how to continue the fantasy story. Its very engaging.

[Matt]

@Reg - I should do a detective thing sometime. I do have one started. I'll post it sometime.

@Bunnyvoid - They're doing a fantasy story in Bakuman? Nice. I should probably read past the first volume sometime. Anyway, my thoughts are a bit more scattered than it looks in that page. I'll bounce between things like how the heroines survive fights despite one being too crippled to run or swing a sword, the main continent's political structure and how tensions don't necessarily mean impending war, and how different cities handle voting, taxing, and punishment.

Good fantasy follows its own rules. Bad fantasy breaks them. I spend half my time making the rules and the other half figuring out how my characters can possibly survive with each new rule I add.

Also, here's Illyana. My style is changing and it's different, to say the least.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=246&d=1348667854
EDIT: Oh, wow. I've never uploaded a picture with this many JPEG artifacts in my entire life. This is madness. Never again shall I post my pictures in such a manner.

[BunnyVoid]

That sounds interesting. At least you get to jot everything down in paper. Sometimes complications like that enhance reading experience. I think it adds depth and texture to the story. Its good that what you have written is not as linear as the majority of popular literature today. Just a thought.

The style looks great. I think the hair, lips, eyes, nose, ears combination can become a trademark of yours. Its working pretty well. Color choice is very suitable to style (especially the eyes) but background may need less saturation and more "coolness" in terms of color temperature. I know this is a wip but i hope you still develop her clothes. Aside from that, I like how this style is working for you.

Even though its not related to your thread, I have to thank you for the comment you left about lineart and coloring in my thread. It helped me leap some hurdles in my art. Cheers for that.

Other than these, I have nothing else to say.

[Regantor]

She looks nice; I'm esspecially liking the hair and the overall use of colours. I'm also noticing a slight use of grey on her lower face, which is generally pretty brave for a female anime-style character, but here I think it pays off.

If I had to offer immediate critiques... Perhaps the ears look a little weird? I know that she's inhuman and all, but the positioning of the hole is telling my brain it should be slightly upwards and further back to stay freindly with her jawline. Adding a larger upper lobe, or simply moving the hole upwards, are both alternatives if you don't want to change it too much. The last thing is that her eyes could probally do with stronger eyelashes on their 'leading edge', or at least come to a point in that area.

I actually find the clothes pretty okay, alrough they could perhaps do with a fold or two and some sewn joints, I guess...

Either way, keep it up, man.

[JJJorgie]

Very nice as always :) I like the greyish-blue shading on the lower face, but I think you should blended it together a little more. It's kind of splotchy. Also, the far eye is shorter compared to the closer eye; they should be the same height. Hope this helps! :)

[Demonfyre]

She looks beautiful, I can't think of any better way to put it. Great work man, your work is always so inspiring!

Do you have a DA account?

[Matt]

Why, yes, I do have a Deviantart. (http://boriol.deviantart.com/)

Drew this a few days ago to replace my avatar, but I don't like it. I want to find a prettier medium between anime and realism.
http://i.imgur.com/pnRJA.png

Drew this in art today.
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/299/b/6/sketch_of_jon_snow_by_boriol-d5j1fqs.jpg

[Bacon_Barbarian]

I am very surprised you watch that show/read those books, Matt.

[Matt]

I like realistic fantasy. Game of Thrones is realistic fantasy.

Here's Siren shouting or something.
http://i.imgur.com/mlNSE.png

[Demonfyre]

I loved that drawing of Snow :)

With this new one, I think her mouth is slightly out of place, like her eyes and nose are suggesting one thing, but her mouth kinda goes against it, if that makes sense

[Gedeon]

On the last pic everything looks fine...but the nose and the mouth look flat. the perspective of the face makes me think that its tilted a bit upward and to her right, but her nose looks like we're looking at it from a straight forward view, granted we see the side of it but its till in our eye level and not a bit upward. The teeth in the mouth also look like we're lookin straight at the mouth but they should go more 'ín' the mouth.....capishe? :D I need to find a better way to explain things to people.

[Matt]

@Demon - I did that pose in the mirror, and I see exactly what you mean.

@Ged - A mirror does wonders. I'll get it next time.

Also, muscles referenced out of Grey's Anatomy (the textbook, not the show). I was supposed to do a charcoal shading thing for art class, but I'd forgotten my charcoal at school. So I did this.
http://i.imgur.com/RCUDW.jpg

[JJJorgie]

I'm pretty sure the bicep is too narrow/skinny compared to the shoulder and forearm muscles. Maybe build it up some more. Other than that, good job! :)

[Matt]

It is. I messed up.

-

Backed off just a bit on the realism and drew Siren again:
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/321/e/d/siren_sketch_by_boriol-d5la5rx.png

Post-Saimoe version of Kasey.
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/321/3/b/kasey_sketch_by_boriol-d5la544.png

At this rate, all my characters will be too gritty to go in Saimoe. Oh well. I like seeing characters pushed to their mental limits.

[BunnyVoid]

wow these are all nice. i like the spirited style of sketching
may need to be careful with the neck face relationship in terms of anatomy

the touch of realism really boosted your draws. they're wonderful to look at...

[Demonfyre]

They look really good, I really like the movement of the fabric and the hair in the first one! However i'm not really sure what is going on with the held up hand in the bottom one :o and the thumb on the gun looks a little odd, so instead of trying to explain it badly here is a ref;

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q599/Demonfyre1/gunformatt.png

[Matt]

@Bunnyvoid - Thing is, my lack of realism before was detrimental, and this is the way my art should have been all along--and should improve from there.

@Demon - I knew something was off there. Thanks for pointing that out (and for the reference pic).

So I was derping on Groupboard and Liebe was drawing a succubus. At that time, I found a drawing prompt: "Draw something that would never happen in fantasy." So I drew a succubus--in place of the stereotypical evil overlord--holding the stereotypical pure heroine's decapitated head.

NSFW: R-15G

http://i.imgur.com/yChDR.png
http://i.imgur.com/sOZBN.png

She's dark-skinned for three reasons:
1. Contrast.
2. My cynical side reminded me that heroines are always, without fail, white.
3. My fantasy's canon has several dark-skinned races for various other reasons, and the heroine here happens to be among them.

[Celestial-Fox]

Well, you have to also consider that non-white protagonists do exist, and when they do, what is pictured above happens—they die. So, this is, although harshly put, predictable to me, because it's just a little reminder that whites usually do come out on top in the media, whether it be through the antagonist or protagonist. That sounds a little nitpicky, but think about it: In mixed-race plots, how often does the non-white win? And on top of that, how often are they the protagonist?

I am also just sensitive to this phenomenon, because people who look like me have few media heroes that look like us to look up to.

(And when the protagonist is supposed to be non-white, the role is often altered to accommodate a white actor. For instance, why on earth is Johnny Depp allowed to play a Native American man onscreen in The Lone Ranger, as if there aren't any Native actors?)

I like the way your coloring style is developing. It's really sharp, which is pretty opposite of the style I was guessing you'd go for when you were first starting out. I like the color scheme of it all, and the demon's outfit is nice. It's simple, but still interesting to look at.

Watch out for the feet, though. It looks like the sizes of the toes are configured backward on both of her feet in this image, like the big toes are on the outside edge of the feet.

[Matt]

Well, you have to also consider that non-white protagonists do exist, and when they do, what is pictured above happens—they die. So, this is, although harshly put, predictable to me, because it's just a little reminder that whites usually do come out on top in the media, whether it be through the antagonist or protagonist. That sounds a little nitpicky, but think about it: In mixed-race plots, how often does the non-white win? And on top of that, how often are they the protagonist?
I don't watch many movies (less than ten over the last five years). I do see your point, though, and I acknowledge that could have handled this picture better. I thought maybe I could be an exception since 75% of my fantasy protagonists are brown to begin with. They also all survive and win their respective struggles.


I am also just sensitive to this phenomenon, because people who look like me have few media heroes that look like us to look up to.
I know this doesn't mean much coming from a white guy, but I hate this as much as you do, and I'm trying to help. If Naomi's Story ever gets a movie, I'll do all I can to get an actress who actually looks like Naomi to begin with rather than get a white girl to play her.


(And when the protagonist is supposed to be non-white, the role is often altered to accommodate a white actor. For instance, why on earth is Johnny Depp allowed to play a Native American man onscreen in The Lone Ranger, as if there aren't any Native actors?)
I suppose this is both because of Johnny Depp's popularity and because the majority of America is still racist to some degree. But you already knew that, and that was a rhetorical question.


I'm not actually happy with my coloring style. It's exactly the opposite of what I want--essentially, your style. I'm really starting to like realism and semirealism, and the only reason I'm still coloring like this is because I'm lazy and don't want to take a long time on any one picture.

I'm seriously going to have to fill a sketchbook with feet and hands one of these days. I remember Synworld recommending that a long time ago and we all kinda brushed it off, but I'm seriously considering it now.

EDIT: Oh, and my second Secret Santa gift to Bunnyvoid:
http://i.imgur.com/KgJV5.png

[Matt]

I'll color this soon.
http://i.imgur.com/9PLlcvo.png

EDIT: Colored it.
http://i.imgur.com/DdbJ9Y4.jpg

Naomi progression:
Naomi is my deepest character, and as such, she's undergone the most changes.
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/164/6/2/naomi_by_boriol-d3itwmb.jpg
Naomi was no different from stereotypical fantasy elves in 2011. As my worldbuilding wasn't settled, she was a half-nymph, half-human, and I've since grown annoyed with 90% of half-races in fantasy.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/230/3/7/oekaki_doodle__loli_naomi_by_boriol-d4725wx.png
It was this picture of a young, tanned Naomi that prompted me to darken nymphs' skin and pull their ears down into a more anime-like style. It took awhile, though.

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4704/7naomi.png
In my last days of high school, I dipped further into realism with Naomi than any other character. These sketches fueled my new-found love for semi-realism. Naomi was a dark heroine to begin with, but at this point she was practically evil.

http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-oekaki-naomi.png
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-oekaki-naomi-2_500.jpg
These two doodles were the last I did of Naomi's initial design.

http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-come-on-get-up_500.png
To this day, this image is the best representation of Naomi's story and design I have despite its anatomical errors. Naomi's story my only true tragedy (traditional definition: story in which the character makes the wrong choice) and the consequences for Naomi's actions are more costly than in any of my stories.

CURRENTLY: Naomi is a dark heroine still, but I've learned stuff. I removed most of her uncertainty, therefore increasing likability. She's no longer objectively evil and her design is significantly more unique than it used to be. She's my only character whose physical strength actually plummets as the story moves forward as her injuries pile up in a world without magic healing.


Illy progression:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/108/9/5/illyana_concepts_by_boriol-d3e9vgh.jpg
Cute, but she's a two-dimensional character who, while not an archetype, has no progression or defining characteristics.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9279/illy1.png
In the last days of Angel Hunters, I planned several fight scenes, as well as that gash down her torso, around Illy's healing ability. None of them saw the light of day.

(Skipped four images and elaborated in Siren's progression thing.)

http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/Matt-dryad-girl.png
Since canceling Angel Hunters, I didn't have any female sword users and toyed with the idea of Illy being one, despite her ankle being thoroughly screwed up in the story at this point.

http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=246&d=1348667854
When nymphs' skin darkened in my universe, so did dryads'.

CURRENTLY: Illy is as she appears in the first picture in this post. I've adapted her wood-warping to be an integral part of the story, and her personality has improved significantly since just six months ago. She's now defined by it, rather than her race, appearance, ability, or circumstances.


Siren progression:
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8733/sirenwip.png
What even...? Character was a 2D sociopath with no development, and the drawings were bad too.

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/327/9/b/siren___saimoe_entry_by_boriol-d4h2xn9.jpg
Drawing Siren for Saimoe helped me balance her character a bit. Still not likable, but not objectively evil.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7601/68272684.png
First time drawing Illy and Siren together--they met in the story as well. I was getting better at this point.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1294/sirenandilly.png
Was playing with their personalities--Siren was the Campbell shapeshifter and the wise mentor rolled into one and Illy still didn't have much going for her.

http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/05/Matt-oekaki-siren_500.png?t=4fc18fd55e7c8
I admit, I just wanted to draw her in something sexier than usual, but this design partially inspired Siren's current iteration.

http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-001-jpg-8.jpg?t=4fdf4712e7d40
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/Matt-002-jpg-8.jpg?t=4fdf4752cab67
Lighter tone and an attempt at humor. Siren is a mini-philosopher at this point.

http://i.imgur.com/pnRJA.png
This awkward stage in my art reflected almost exactly in my writing as I was torn between the gorgeous brutality in Game of Thrones and the lighter "teenage fantasy" tone I'd been writing with since Angel Hunters.

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/321/e/d/siren_sketch_by_boriol-d5la5rx.png
Settling on both art and writing style. I let the story start in teenage fantasy and drop suddenly into more adult-oriented themes to raise the stakes. This was around six months ago, however, and I've improved even more in both story and art.

CURRENTLY: Siren is as she appears in the first picture in this post and is significantly less of a sociopath in the story. Her current occupation: guard.

[Joosh]

In my honest brutal-as-fuck opinion you spend so much of your time on these characters and not improving your actual drawing skills.
These characters don't matter in the long run if you're aiming to actually improve as an artist, because you've stagnated for a really long time now.

But I don't know, maybe this is just a hobby for you

[Linz]

Josh, I personally feel like this is not constructive critique but rather criticism. Personal characters DO matter in the long run, maybe not to you, but to a lot of people their OC's are their muse, their own creation that inspires them to draw. Your last statement is condescending and unnecessary. I don't know if you're trying the 'tough love' route, but whatever it is you're doing its not constructive nor helpful. If I received your 'critique' i'd be feeling pretty low about myself right now. I'm sure you would be too, have a little empathy. You can give constructive honest opinions and critiques without sounding like a know it all asshole.

ALSO.
I think you are TOTALLY wrong. In the time that Matt has been posting, not only has his art skills been improving, but his creativity and composition has improved. He's also moved to a more semi-realistic style which he's currently working on. Semi-realism is a hard thing to transfer to, especially if you've been focusing on manga. Matt has come a LONG LONG way. He deserves credit.

Now. For my critique.
I really like your idea and composition and the sense of perspective. The trees have been shaded beautifully. <: I will say that the tree-girl(?) has merged a bit too much into the tree, its somewhat incomprehensible what she is/what she's doing. I get the feeling that she's morphed with the tree, but it hasn't been executed as well as it could. I would recommend that you give her a more defined human silhouette, look at it as a black flat shape. Does it look human, or does it look like a lump?
Anywho, Matt, you HAVE come a long way and you still have so much potential to be an absolutely breathtaking artist. You're nearly there, you have the imagination, the drive. Just keep doing what you're doing, Work on your anatomy and colouring a bit more and there will be no limit to what you can do.

<3

[corastaur]

I pretty much second linz. You've definitely been improving, it's pretty evident from the character progressions (which are really cool both for the art and story progression). I may have said it when you first posted it, but I really really like the second to last picture of Siren - her face just looks fantastic! Some areas in general that I think could use more practice are hands and feet, but you may already know that. :) Also I'm pretty sure the way you draw hair is a stylistic choice, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. Obviously this is more opinion than critique, but it just feels a bit stringy. In my experience hair tends to clump together in sections rather than separating into individual strands. (Curly hair is a GREAT example of this b/c, when the hair is cared for, it really clumps together into individual coils or curls with varying levels of definition) BUT if this is just a stylistic choice than carry on.

Sorry that wasn't as organized or helpful a critique as I would have liked... :I Anyway, I'm really excited to keep watching your characters and art grow! n_n

[Joosh]

I apologize, Linz is right, that was out of line -


However you choose to spend your time drawing is up to you.

[Sylux]

You still sound like an asshole, but whatever.

[GunZet]

I already cleared this up with Josh elsewhere, as did Linz. Nothing more to see here.

[doghateburger]

Heres my Red line crit,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/phantomking/crit.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/phantomking/media/crit.jpg.html)

Just to expand on it, this is quite a tricky shot that you chose. It would be better to use perspective grid to help guide the overall image. The way I figure out the perspective in your image was using the 2 torso of the 2 character as I believe they should both be parallel to one and another.

As you can see once that is plotted out, you can see where most of the off perspective objects are, which are the back ground trees mostly.
I see the rules of third being implied which is a good thing but I find it to be a bit blank in the sense that I'm not really sure what to focus on when I look at the image. There really isnt much that really stand out at first glance.

A suggestion would be to increase and exaggerate the size of the tree girl. Also block off the bg abit as we are primarily focusing on the 2 girls.

I wont critique on your colouring as something like this, I dont know how to critique ^^; Maybe if you work on another colouring piece Ill critique it for you but for now, things are just really flat looking. A scene such as this require some knowledge of lighting to pull off the colours right of the top of your head. Trying using some ref in the future.

[toast]

Josh, I personally feel like this is not constructive critique but rather criticism. Personal characters DO matter in the long run, maybe not to you, but to a lot of people their OC's are their muse, their own creation that inspires them to draw. Your last statement is condescending and unnecessary. I don't know if you're trying the 'tough love' route, but whatever it is you're doing its not constructive nor helpful. If I received your 'critique' i'd be feeling pretty low about myself right now. I'm sure you would be too, have a little empathy. You can give constructive honest opinions and critiques without sounding like a know it all asshole.

He is giving his honest opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. He said it bluntly without sugar coating and what he said was true: characters are important later on, but if you aren't improving in your technical skills as much as you should be then it doesn't matter at all. Personally I think Matt has improved, but if he focuses more on testing out different coloring styles, focuses more on anatomy and perspective and what have you like he's trying to learn, he could be learning so much faster. He even said he's not really happy with his coloring style, why doesn't he focus on that instead of his characters?

If you're not able to take a bit of criticism without compliments and a ton of sugar coating, then that's ridiculous. You should be worrying about what you can do to better your art. Like there's nothing wrong with being nice when giving criticism, that's still really good and motivational. But sometimes people prefer to be blunt and you just have to deal with that and learn from whatever they're trying to tell you. It's obvious they care about your improvement enough to give you said criticism.


You still sound like an asshole, but whatever.

It's funny because you haven't said anything worthwhile or helpful at all.

[jubeh]

It's funny because you're a cunt.

Infracted. Watch your language twat.

[Matt]

In my honest brutal-as-fuck opinion you spend so much of your time on these characters and not improving your actual drawing skills.
These characters don't matter in the long run if you're aiming to actually improve as an artist, because you've stagnated for a really long time now.

But I don't know, maybe this is just a hobby for you
I'm a writer. I draw as a hobby now.


If I received your 'critique' i'd be feeling pretty low about myself right now.
A little, admittedly, but I've said all I needed to on that.


I would recommend that you give her a more defined human silhouette, look at it as a black flat shape.
Will do. Thanks. She really does look like a lump.


I'm pretty sure the way you draw hair is a stylistic choice, but [...] it just feels a bit stringy. In my experience hair tends to clump together in sections rather than separating into individual strands. (Curly hair is a GREAT example of this b/c, when the hair is cared for, it really clumps together into individual coils or curls with varying levels of definition)
You're absolutely right, and I'm glad you brought that up. Quick question, though: for greasy, poorly kept hair, is it all right to keep it stringy, or should I still make it clumpier? (About style--I'm not settled on anything, so I'm open to anything that would make my art look better.)



[Picture omitted for space.]

Just to expand on it, this is quite a tricky shot that you chose. It would be better to use perspective grid to help guide the overall image. The way I figure out the perspective in your image was using the 2 torso of the 2 character as I believe they should both be parallel to one and another.
I actually didn't use a perspective grid at all, but I'll definitely use one in the future. Eyeballing it will only get me so far.

Thanks. Your critiques are always really helpful.


[...] if he focuses more on testing out different coloring styles, focuses more on anatomy and perspective and what have you like he's trying to learn, he could be learning so much faster. He even said he's not really happy with his coloring style, why doesn't he focus on that instead of his characters?
To be fair to you and Josh, I shouldn't have posted my writing progression in my art thread.

I haven't improved my art like I used to for a few reasons:
1. I'm an English major and I'll teach writing classes when I graduate.
2. I like writing more than drawing and have a book 75&#37; ready for publication.
3. I'm honestly just lazy; after getting high-speed Internet, my productivity took a dive and I found myself unable to muster the motivation to draw when an 18-year backlog of online games, Youtube, Skype, torrents, Adventure Time, and Wikipedia all sat at my fingertips.

That last one is inexcusable and I'd love to go back to the way I used to be, where even if I liked writing more, my art still improved at a respectable pace.


If you're not able to take a bit of criticism without compliments and a ton of sugar coating, then that's ridiculous.
It's more helpful to tell people what they're doing right and wrong, but I agree that sugarcoating is unnecessary.

-

I'll draw much more this summer. I'm at a point where, despite my future plans and my laziness, I just want to draw better.

[GunZet]

I'll post what I did to Josh over Skype in response to his post without arguing back and forth like butts.


[5/9/2013 1:18:54 PM] GunZet: I've seen, and I can agree on some points, but others I think are highly skewed.

Such as views and opinions being sugarcoated, views can also be covered in spiders and coffee, which may be yours.

a lot of times the most brutal opinion isn't the truth, it's not the best, sometimes they don't even make sense, and often come from either the highest tier of artists, or the lowest, the ones coming from the higher tier considered more valid due to their skill level, when infact those artists may just want to keep you where you're at rather than build you up.
[5/9/2013 1:19:48 PM] GunZet: The best brutal opinion is constructive criticism, something all artists can agree on. It not only tells you what you need to correct and work on, but it doesn't completely crush an artist at the same time, and it is often the truth. I think you're biased due to the community you hang around with, the same way MT may be biased on 'sugarcoating' things.

[5/9/2013 1:22:26 PM] Josh:
How should I word that he should be focusing more on studies then drawing oc's, then

[5/9/2013 1:25:20 PM] GunZet: Technically you shouldn't, because it all depends on what the artist wants to do. What if Matt suddenly decided to master cubism? Would you tell him he needs to work on his anatomy more, in comparison to what Pablo Picasso was doing? I wouldn't think so.

Just let him keep doing what he's doing if he seems content with where he's at.

BUT as everyone is entiteld to speak their opinion, you could just tell him simply what you think are the strengths and weaknesses in his figures, currently, rather than how long he's been utilizing a certain style or such. He has plenty of time to improve at his own pace, but it's his decision truly.

So to prevent further cluttering of Matt's thread with useless arguments, I'm going to point out that he is exactly correct when he says "It's more helpful to tell people what they're doing right and wrong, but I agree that sugarcoating is unnecessary."

You don't give a critique in an art class by telling them only what's wrong in the most soul-crushing way possible. No, you tell them what you like, and how the piece could be stronger. Don't get a good critique confused with sugarcoating, people.

[Joosh]

I'll post what I did to Josh over Skype in response to his post without arguing back and forth like butts.


http://i.imgur.com/G1CddLS.png