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Blue_Dragon
06-27-2011, 02:28 AM
"Defense of Marriage Act"

It's bullshit. It means even if a homosexual couple is married in a state that okays their marriage, if they move to a state that doesn't okay same-sex marriage, their marriage is not recognized in that state and any rights they had are not honored. I feel DOMA is unconstitutional and should be over turned in the courts or repealed.

Slurpee
06-28-2011, 10:40 PM
Exactly. Then what is the use of making the marriage legal in the first rate. Laws make no sense

Kodos
06-29-2011, 01:44 AM
Because in America we are still very big on states rights and some states - particularly those in the South - like the idea of the nation being less one nation divided into many partitions and rather many nations coming together in an alliance of sorts. A confederacy, if you will.

Also because they know it is easier to win over the hearts, minds, and money of people in one state than it is in the entire nation. Keep the game small and it's easier to cheat and lie your way to victory.

Sylux
06-29-2011, 02:51 PM
Why don't we just abolish marriage overall how does that sound.

Kodos
06-29-2011, 05:10 PM
I'd be for it except that there are certain property rights issues and child custody issues that would be legally difficult otherwise. It's also why I'm against legalizing polygamy because, while I have no moral objections to such unions, I see no way that the state could handle that shit considering how byzantine and difficult property rights get and child rights get when there's only two people involved.

toast
07-28-2011, 04:50 PM
I'm not sure if this has been posted, but look how sweet this is:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/portraits-of-gay-couples-just-married-in-new-york

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 05:20 PM
Exactly. Then what is the use of making the marriage legal in the first rate. Laws make no sense

What was the point of the North abolishing slavery.

Kodos
07-28-2011, 05:26 PM
What was the point of the North abolishing slavery.
In name, not in practice. If you think America abolished slavery, you're an idiot.

Slurpee
07-28-2011, 09:01 PM
I'm not sure if this has been posted, but look how sweet this is:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/portraits-of-gay-couples-just-married-in-new-york
this made my day... so many different kinds of people but they all are happy :D

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 09:14 PM
In name, not in practice. If you think America abolished slavery, you're an idiot.

Can I buy you? Sell you? Rape you without reprecussions? Call you the N-Word? No. If this was the 60s, I might agree with you.

Delphinus
07-28-2011, 09:16 PM
What was the point of the North abolishing slavery.

Financial reasons.
And to extend the support for the federal government.
Not moral reasons.

Why do I know my American history better than you?


Can I buy you? Sell you? Rape you without reprecussions? Call you the N-Word? No. If this was the 60s, I might agree with you.

Welcome to Wage Slavery: Chattel Slavery 2: Electric Boogaloo.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/reccet_391.png

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 09:19 PM
Shhhhh. Let me have some hope in my country. Even if it isn't factually based. ;-;

Anyway, the 60's certainly weren't done in support of the government. http://www.popdaily.net/forum/images/smilies/smiley_wink.png

Kodos
07-28-2011, 09:23 PM
There is outright chattel slavery in places like Florida. Also the prison-industrial complex is the face of modern day chattel slavery. Plus, as Del mentioned, there is the whole wage slavery thing.

So yes, if I was born a slave in Florida, or a criminal, you could probably do those things to me.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-28-2011, 09:32 PM
There is outright chattel slavery in places like Florida. Also the prison-industrial complex is the face of modern day chattel slavery. Plus, as Del mentioned, there is the whole wage slavery thing.

So yes, if I was born a slave in Florida, or a criminal, you could probably do those things to me.

How could you be born a criminal? :P

...

Please explain this alleged Floridian slavery. Je ne suis pas. (I understand what it is, but have never heard of it happening in Florida.) Anyway, my main point was that non-whites are as free to do what they want as a white person under the same circumstances.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
07-28-2011, 09:48 PM
Je ne suis pas.

I think you mean 'Je ne sais pas'.

Kodos
07-28-2011, 09:54 PM
How could you be born a criminal? :P

...

Please explain this alleged Floridian slavery. Je ne suis pas. (I understand what it is, but have never heard of it happening in Florida.) Anyway, my main point was that non-whites are as free to do what they want as a white person under the same circumstances.
Bullshit. The American legal system is designed to target minorities in general and African Americans in particular. Slavery in America is still racially based.

Regarding Floridian slavery: http://labornotes.org/2010/08/florida-slavery-still-haunts-fields

CypressDahlia
07-28-2011, 11:20 PM
I remember a 20 or so page argument against CypressDahlia on the old forums about whether I had the right to say what gender I was...

Whoa whoa whoa. I was skimming this thread out of interest and I saw my name pop up. Red flag.

Honestly, where the hell did this come from? The only extensive debate I've had about transgenders was the one regarding whether or not a little girl had the mental capacity to decide to get male hormones pumped into her. And, in relation, whether or not a "gut feeling" is enough warrant to make a life-altering decision.

When the hell did I ever question your right to state your gender? I have never once spoken out against you or your decision to change your gender. In fact, I left you a friendly post when you first announced it. I do mean to sound abrasive because I don't like being misquoted, esp. when it's demonizing. Admittedly, I've argued some stupid shit but never that. Please get your info straight, ma'am.

Outcast
07-29-2011, 01:24 AM
Something about "You're not old enough to decide you're the wrong gender" but she was like in her late teens or so.


Also somebody has a stick shoved far up their ass today.

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 03:05 AM
Sorry, but I'm not a fan of people spreading misinformation about me, especially when it makes me look like a raging anti-transgender Nazi. Excuse me of that makes me uptight.

And my bad, it was a little boy who wanted to become a little girl. He was 8, by the way.

Outcast
07-29-2011, 03:32 AM
As far as I know they kind of know from very young ages.

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 03:54 AM
Yeah, supposedly. But naturally you become a little concerned when letting 8-year-old kids make life-altering decisions. And it's not like he can have second thoughts about it after the procedure.

Either way, the whole "20 page" (4 page) debate was about the little boy and at no point did I make any personal remarks against Lucy. If you thought I did, Lucy, I apologize. But srsly, let's not blow stuff out of proportion. Jesus.

Slurpee
07-29-2011, 03:27 PM
As far as I know they kind of know from very young ages.
We do.

And its ok Cyprus. I dont think youre a nazi.

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 03:51 PM
That's a first. Apparently I'm like the biggest Nazi on MT, so much that I can make a slightly defensive post amidst 20 pages of flamewar and I'm the uptight one. That's how much of a Nazi I am.

Anyway. Out of curiosity, Slurp. How old are you?

Delphinus
07-29-2011, 04:38 PM
That's a first. Apparently I'm like the biggest Nazi on MT, so much that I can make a slightly defensive post amidst 20 pages of flamewar and I'm the uptight one. That's how much of a Nazi I am.

Maybe if you explained your ideas instead of just chucking out stuff that sounds fascist and hoping for the best you'd get less of that.

Bacon_Barbarian
07-29-2011, 04:43 PM
Bullshit. The American legal system is designed to target minorities in general and African Americans in particular. Slavery in America is still racially based.
Are you saying that if me and a black friend went and both shot 4 people a piece, and got the exact same lawyer and the exact same jury we wouldn't serve for the same amount of time? Racism on the part of a judge is not something that was designed to happend.


Regarding Floridian slavery: http://labornotes.org/2010/08/florida-slavery-still-haunts-fields
I meant legal slavery, but all right.

Kodos
07-29-2011, 05:04 PM
Prisons are legal slavery.

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 05:18 PM
Maybe if you explained your ideas instead of just chucking out stuff that sounds fascist and hoping for the best you'd get less of that.

Case in point.

Delphinus
07-29-2011, 05:18 PM
Are you saying that if me and a black friend went and both shot 4 people a piece, and got the exact same lawyer and the exact same jury we wouldn't serve for the same amount of time? Racism on the part of a judge is not something that was designed to happend.

Possibly you would. But what if it was an ambiguous case? Prejudice - even subconscious - on behalf of some members of the jury could easily lead to you getting off scot-free and your black friend getting thrown in the deepest recesses of some prison or another.


Case in point.

Eh. All I'm saying is you don't necessarily explain your beliefs very well. I don't think you're terribly wrong most of the time, but your conclusions can come across as typical right-wing rubbish.

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 05:33 PM
Ah, see, now you explain your point, whereas that first post came across as just a straight personal attack.

We're both guilty of the same crimes, aren't we?

Delphinus
07-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Eh, I'm not sure how you'd interpret that first post as a personal attack.

"chucking out stuff" implies haphazard treatment of your ideas, and 'stuff' is deliberately vague to further emphasise that chaotic mindset. Furthermore, "hoping for the best" implies that same haphazard treatment of ideas.
"that sounds fascist" isn't the same as "chucking out fascist stuff", and refers to evident truths (i.e. talking about presentation) rather than on actual truths (i.e. spouting fascist diatribes).

Christ, for once my English Literature skills actually came in handy. I mean, I might be being arrogant here, but I thought it was fairly obvious that I was referring to appearances rather than truths.

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 06:02 PM
Ah, see, now that you clearly explained that to me it all makes sense.

Delphinus
07-29-2011, 07:22 PM
Now you're just being a smartass.

jubeh
07-29-2011, 07:24 PM
Yes, yes, you're both asses. Take it to PMs.

Slurpee
07-29-2011, 07:36 PM
That's a first. Apparently I'm like the biggest Nazi on MT, so much that I can make a slightly defensive post amidst 20 pages of flamewar and I'm the uptight one. That's how much of a Nazi I am.

Anyway. Out of curiosity, Slurp. How old are you?

I am 16. You probably think that I am too young to decide about how I feel about myself and I can understand how. I myself realize that I am not good at making any sort of decision. The one thing I am sure of though is how I feel. ^_^

CypressDahlia
07-29-2011, 07:47 PM
16 sounds fine to me, actually. At 16, you've got a complete(?) understanding of human sexuality and have gotten a feel for your born gender (through puberty). In other words, you can actually make an informed decision. At age 8, not all of that information is known or available.

Gedeon
08-05-2011, 01:52 AM
Still i think that we should stick to the rule "until you're 18 no car for you!!!". I can't say i understand transgender people, but id they want to do it, then let them do it. But i think ,nevertheless that you know all that you need to know at 16 (give or take), that gender changing should be done at the minimum age of 18. When you are legally responsible for yourself.

Slurpee
08-05-2011, 12:53 PM
Wow. Cyprus thats the first time anyone online or offline has told me that think I'm not insane or looked at me like I am.
And Geodon, as strange as it sounds, I think the age should be 18. >_> I would want it to be 16 but some teenagers are still well... unintelligent to put it nicely to decide something that important.

Gedeon
08-05-2011, 03:59 PM
IF you wanna put ti nicly ........don't say unintelligent.......thats the oposite. Thats exactly as saying that they are dumb. =w= Better to say less informed.

Outcast
08-06-2011, 07:45 AM
Teens for the most part are complete dumbasses.

CypressDahlia
08-06-2011, 06:25 PM
It's just a matter of whether or not you have enough experience to make that decision. It's not something you can have doubts about, you know what I mean? As a rule of thumb, I wouldn't let someone who's not old enough to use the stove make such an imperative decision... It just doesn't make sense to me. I had to fend off like 3-4 people on old-old MT who thought that was a good idea.

Kodos
08-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Wow. Cyprus thats the first time anyone online or offline has told me that think I'm not insane or looked at me like I am.
And Geodon, as strange as it sounds, I think the age should be 18. >_> I would want it to be 16 but some teenagers are still well... unintelligent to put it nicely to decide something that important.
I agree it should be 18 or whatever the nation involved considers the age of adulthood. I can't imagine how horrible it must be for transpeople to have to spend additional years in a body that they are - at the very least - not happy with, but at the same time I think I would rather wish that suffering upon them than have someone make an irreversible (more or less) mistake. Utilitarianism, basically. An additional two years or so of suffering is preferable to a lifetime of suffering.

Basically I'm against letting non-adults make any sort of decision that is more or less irreversible.

Lucy
09-03-2011, 02:22 PM
On a related note, I hit adulthood and now the NHS are doing things for me. :D
I stopped with the self medicating business, and will likely be starting hormones with actual professional supervision in December.

Slice of life aside, for the above issue I think that it should be looked at on an individual basis, so in extreme cases someone might start a year or two early if it's going to stop them attempting suicide or something, but the rule of thumb being 18. Additionally I think that only physical treatment should be restricted to adults; the way things are now I had to wait two years between asking for help and even getting to talk a psychiatrist trained to deal with it, which led me to self medicate and thus arguably worked against its objective.

Forgive my strange message board based necromantic voodoo.

Kodos
09-03-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm glad to hear things are going better for you, Lucy.

And yes, I agree. Ideally every single case for just about everything would be done on a case-by-case basis. But that's just not practical or really even possible.

And the medical systems of most modern nations are so hilariously fucked up that honestly it's almost impossible to talk about how things should be done while limiting yourself to the way things are done - especially with mental health issues.

Psy
09-03-2011, 02:50 PM
Oh Lucy <3! I was just thinking I should wake this thread from the dead too lol. What a great Christmas gift hormones will make?! I'm glad you are getting help from the dr's again and I hope all goes fabulously for you.

I just wanted to also post this here.
http://www.takepart.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2011/06/gay_marriage_cousin_marriage.jpg

I will probably have something better to post in a day or two unless some one else has an article they would like to bring up? If you do just post it here and I will change the thread title accordingly.

Gedeon
09-03-2011, 04:50 PM
Can i just ask whats up with lucy? Sorry for not being informed -w- Practiclly new here................

CypressDahlia
09-03-2011, 05:45 PM
Lucy is a girl. There's nothing "up" with her.

Delphinus
09-03-2011, 06:15 PM
^ That's not helpful, Cype. Lucy can answer for herself.

Slurpee
09-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Congratulations Lucy! On a side note my mom's been becoming a little bit nicer. She lets me buy boxers now. 2 points for the both us! :P

CypressDahlia
09-03-2011, 06:18 PM
I didn't realize I had to be Lucy to answer that question.

Also, your mom didn't let you buy boxers? Easily the best kind of underwear for either gender. I let my girlfriend have a few pairs of mine.

Delphinus
09-03-2011, 06:19 PM
Except you didn't give a particularly informative answer.

Slurpee
09-03-2011, 06:21 PM
My parents are extremely sexist. They won't let my brother grow is hair, they think it might make him gay. The only reason she's letting me wear boxers is because I lied about a health thing.

Delphinus
09-03-2011, 06:24 PM
What would the consequences for disobedience be? If they're just harsh comments, he should do it anyway. They'll learn to deal with it.

Slurpee
09-03-2011, 06:26 PM
Our parents always tell us that they will send us back to our home country if we don't behave . I think that's a pretty big consequence.

Delphinus
09-03-2011, 06:26 PM
Bloody hell. O__O

CypressDahlia
09-03-2011, 06:27 PM
"nothing" is just as informative as something. But I guess I'm held to an explicit standard of being very informative with all of my answers. Do you have other special rules for me to follow?

And man, your parents would hate me. I have long hair and my parents thought I was gay at one point because I insisted on letting it grow out. It was a very awkward conversation.

And, now, my mom insists I shave my legs... so it's all backwards and shit now. =_=

Kodos
09-03-2011, 08:06 PM
Can i just ask whats up with lucy? Sorry for not being informed -w- Practiclly new here................
Lucy is actually a robot sent back in time by Skynet to kill John Connor.

Delphinus
09-04-2011, 07:12 AM
"nothing" is just as informative as something. But I guess I'm held to an explicit standard of being very informative with all of my answers. Do you have other special rules for me to follow?

"Nothing" is less informative than a more detailed explanation to someone who doesn't already possess the information required for full understanding (such as Gedeon). You have this habit of assuming everyone can understand what you're saying, no matter how arcanely you arrange your words. Were I to be rude, I'd say this either made you a terrible writer, an insufferable narcissist, or a schizophrenic. As I try not to be rude most of the time, I won't say that.

Look ma, I can snark too!

CypressDahlia
09-04-2011, 08:41 AM
Just stop whining already. I'll sympathize with you and stop answering publicly addressed questions since I apparently have no right. And I'll stop speaking in single word answers since that's so arcane and difficult to understand. I'll buy you some icecream, too. You pick the flavor. Anyway, can we talk about gay people some more? This is insufferable.

Gedeon
09-04-2011, 09:40 AM
.......i just think Cype was trying to be funny............................

Slurpee
09-04-2011, 10:13 AM
Lol yes lets talk about gay people.
My neighbors dog is gay.
See, situation averted.

CypressDahlia
09-04-2011, 10:37 AM
Lol really? I mean, I've heard that some animals can be gay. Which makes you wonder if gay is a choice or an impulse, since animals base their mating preferences off of purely objective things like pheromones.

Superdooperphailmachine
09-04-2011, 11:07 AM
Guinea Pigs are almost always bisexual in my experience.

CypressDahlia
09-04-2011, 06:12 PM
Yeah, I'm kinda playing midfield when it comes to the issue of "why people are gay". I do believe it's not always a choice, just as it's not a choice for me to be attracted to females. I simply am. It's compulsive. Likewise I do not choose to be unattracted to males. I just am. But I don't believe it to be genetic or biological. Anyone wanna put this into perspective?

Fenn
09-04-2011, 08:05 PM
Okay, I have a controversial and potentially ignorant question, I promise I'm not trying to be offensive, but I don't know any LGBT person well enough to ask this.

Why do gay people take offense when the word is used to mean "stupid" or "dumb?"

If the word gay originated from some other Latin word or something meaning homosexual, then I'd get it, but I always thought gay originally meant "happy" before it meant homosexual. So isn't it's transition to meaning "stupid" just another definition added to the word? I've used the term to mean "stupid" before and never intended to use it in a homophobic or anti-homosexual way. It just seems like other swear words like F*** or Sh**: it rolls off the tongue well.

CypressDahlia
09-04-2011, 10:26 PM
I think it's just because it associates the word with a negative connotation.

Slurpee
09-05-2011, 12:04 PM
It's because we feel like you're saying gay people are unintelligent or stupid. That's what really gets to me. WHY THAT WORD OUT OF ALL THE OTHERS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!

Kodos
09-05-2011, 12:09 PM
Because most humans think homosexuals aren't really human beings and ergo "gay" is a word that describes things which are bad, so you use it to describe other things which are bad. Same with "shit." Shit is bad, so we use the word to describe other bad things.

"That movie was gay."
"That movie was shit."
"That movie was bad"

Fenn
09-05-2011, 12:35 PM
Because most humans think homosexuals aren't really human beings and ergo "gay" is a word that describes things which are bad, so you use it to describe other things which are bad. Same with "shit." Shit is bad, so we use the word to describe other bad things.

"That movie was gay."
"That movie was shit."
"That movie was bad"

Fair enough. But hasn't shit always been "poop?" or is it like gay in that it began as something else?

ClockHand
09-05-2011, 01:09 PM
Funny fact, there is a queer movie genre.

A friend is working on a plot for a script class and he is doing it about Queer, War, Comedy (a War movie with stereotypical gay's).

CypressDahlia
09-05-2011, 01:19 PM
To be honest, I have no qualms with using the word "gay" that way around my homo/bisexual friends. And they use it that way, too. Likewise we both make jokes about me being Asian. It's just really one of those things where you have to desensitize yourself to it and realize that nobody's really trying to offend you. An insult holds a different weight than just saying it, and my gay/bi friends have learned to acknowledge that. They know who their true enemies are and it's not any of their friends. Of course, this should always be purely colloquial.

Blue_Dragon
09-05-2011, 01:23 PM
Heck yeah! There's a whole movie industry and genre with homosexual themes (and not just pornos.) Some of my favorite movies under this genre are La Mala de Education and Mulholland Drive (though, this one is very abstracted...it's kinda hard to get through sometimes, but I enjoyed it.)

I did not like Pink Flamingos. I don't care it was the first film of its kind and was "shocking" and "brilliant" or whatever. I just didn't like it. Chasing Amy was okay (too much love story, but it makes some good points.)

*on a side note, I try not to use the terms myself, but when I do use it, it's to actually describe something that is "gay" like one of my favorite bars :) I think this conversation was done somewhere further back in this thread. I'll call my significant other "gay," but if anyone else calls him that, he rightfully gets ticked (he's bi, which is where this comes from.) Likewise, he can call me "bitch" or occasionally "gringa" (I'm not as fond of this, but I let it slide,) but if someone else calls me that, it's not cool.

Kodos
09-05-2011, 01:23 PM
Fair enough. But hasn't shit always been "poop?" or is it like gay in that it began as something else?
Meanings change. Things can be offensive now that were not originally. Also regarding gayness - it's an iffy thing. I was just reading about how homosexuality is actually a relatively new concept.

Without getting into too much detail basically the gist of the point was that while there has always been homosexual behavior, and most cultures have had words for it (buggery, sodomy, whatever) the idea of homosexuality being something you *are* rather than something you *do* is relatively new in the West. That identifying a person as a homosexual rather than as a person who does homosexual acts is sort of new.

ClockHand
09-05-2011, 01:27 PM
La Mala de Education

Isn't it La Mala Educaci&#243;n? By Pedro Almod&#243;var? Great director who have always made a big rol about sexuality and motherly relationships in his films.

Gedeon
09-05-2011, 03:51 PM
I call my friends gay sometimes to mess with them, not because being gay is bad. Its because for them being gay is not something they like. I haven't met any gay people yet, but i don't imagine that they are so much different. I imagine gay people like this. Everyone eats and loves chocolate, but there are some people that don't like it. its mostly normal for people to like chocolate, but simply there are some that just don't like it. So i imagine its the same with gay people. Most men love women and women bodies, but some don't. I can't agree that that's completely normal, simply cuz i don't think nature intended that two males love each other, but it ain't something bad. A different taste. Nothing more or less. Te human brain evolves, and as we started to like art as neandatarls(or some-such(maybe homo-erectus or something earlier) im not kodos, i don't know everything) at the time it was meaningless and didn't serve any purpose. But still some liked to paint pictures of the hunt, and so it evolved to art as we know it today. I don't think that homosexuality is gonna be as wide spread and accepted as art, but i do imagine that its going to evolve from just a an idea of a bad act as kodos told us, and that it could be simply embraced as a different taste in something that gives us pleasure.

Psy
09-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Some people can not have chocolate because they will die to. You can live a long happy life without chocolate. Telling some one that they are gay to make them feel uncomfortable or mad is keeping those negative views of lgbt people alive and no one wants to be something everyone hates and they will do anything to not be viewed that way. Also trust me that you are right in a way that lgbt people are just the same as you and everyone else but I assure you that you have met a gay person and that you just don't know it because they are just normal people that are not in your face with their sexuality. Not all gay people are going to announce that they are lgbt because that is not what defines them.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-05-2011, 08:33 PM
I think gay being an insult to a straight person is just something that has been ingrained in us as a convenional, generic insult for whatever reason. When I'm joking about, I call straight friends of mine gay, and gay friends of mine 'AIDS ridden', but ofcourse its all in the delivery and its all about knowing that that person won't take offence.

Incidentally, I have also found that straight woman get far more offended if you wrongly say they are lesbain than straight men do if you wrongly say they are gay. Maybe thats cause calling guys gay in jest for so long has desensitised them to the word. Or maybe all guys secretly wanna suck a dick. Who knows.

CypressDahlia
09-05-2011, 09:17 PM
Well, gay being an insult to a straight person is just a question of my sexuality, which is insulting in the sense that that's not actually what I'm into. There's nothing wrong with being gay, but I'm not. That would be like calling me a conservative when I'm not. You are questioning how well I know myself and furthermore how much resolve I have in my own ideas. Its kinda like saying I'm in denial about something.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-05-2011, 09:33 PM
C'mon, Cyp, we all know you like a good ass-fuck as much as the rest of us. Own up! ;)

I think you are right, but I think Kodos had it more spot on that many straight men don't only find it a wrong in the fact that its not what their into, but in the fact that it is something that seems to be universally seen as just abnormal. I used to be of the persuation that 'I don't mind gay people, as long as they don't try to come on to me.' but now I think differently. I find it fun to string along gay guys.

ClockHand
09-05-2011, 09:37 PM
And what about Bitch? I know "gay" is used as a insult, and most of the time is a more joke insult that few people take it seriously, but what about calling someone "bitch"?

CypressDahlia
09-05-2011, 09:45 PM
I don't mind being called bitch as long as it's in a friendly intonation. My girlfriend calls me that and vice versa lol. But "bitch" has submissive connotations to it because of how it's used modernly, so people might take it the wrong way. And yeah, HoS, I don't deny that. Kodos got the main reason why. People do find it abnormal, but it's really just part of the times. In 50 years, it might be extremely normal. I think the ancient Greek have proven to us that perceptions of sexuality can change drastically.

I don't like it when gay guys come onto me, but if they're friends of mine it's okay as it's with the understanding that there is no actual interest there. It's usually just play-flirting, which I do with both my male and female friends all the time so doing it with a gay or bi friend doesn't occur to me as different.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-05-2011, 10:13 PM
Yeah, I know what ya mean. I ain't making out that I'm cruel or anything, but when gay guys do try the moves I do tend to fuck with em. But I fuck with girls all the same being that I've got girlfreind of 4 and a half years. I just like to fuck with people, I guess.

Anyway, it must be weird to find out that you're gay. Thats a question I wanted to pose: When did everyone in this thread realise they were gay? I imagine it was a puberty, but did you realise before that? Just intereted.

CypressDahlia
09-06-2011, 12:25 PM
I need someone to explain to me the exact sentiments of a transsexual person. After a lot of soul-searching and a long conversation with my girlfriend, who asked me if I would approve of plastic surgery, I did some reconsidering. I'm on the fence now as I realized that I've always supported sex-changes but never supported cosmetic surgery outside of those who need it (cripples, burn/accident victims, the deformed). At the very core, they're similar issues, but I need someone who actually has experienced body dysmorphic disorder to put stuff into perspective because, as an outsider, I can't understand what compels you to change your sex. I've been told it's just a horrible feeling, but I honestly //can't relate// to feelings unless I've felt them myself. I need something more concrete.

you probably don't //expect// me to understand, and that's fine. Only you know how you feel for sure, I can only guess. But I would like to understand so hopefully I can cement my position as a supporter. Saying "I don't understand" is no less effective than pretending I understand, you know what I mean?

Slurpee
09-06-2011, 03:25 PM
I shall try and answer your question Cype.
I found out I was different when I was 8 yrs old. It never really bothered me but as I got older I realized that people wanted me to act differently but it felt disgusting.
I hate dresses, I feel itchy in them. Make up I feel is ridiculous and only clowns should wear them. My breasts make me feel like a disfigured cow. Every time I sit I try to slouch so they aren't that obvious or big. I can't socialize with boys or else they think I'm trying to get into their pants, instead of yknow... friendship ._.

Sometimes I accidentally walk into the Men's restroom, and people sometimes think I am a pervert. Imagine if you accidentally refer to yourself as she/he all the time. People will think you are insane. Adults think you are a dirty pervert, try to ignore you, and in most cases blatantly talk down to you. I rarely go shopping because I know people will look at me funny or my parents will get angry if I buy male clothing. Even if you do tell someone that you are trans or gay most of the time they will think it is just a way to get attention.


TL;DR Being trans is hard because it gets in the way of psychologically developing properly as you should as a person. It's really hard and most of the time I just feel depressed.

CypressDahlia
09-06-2011, 07:28 PM
Hmm. I think maybe society needs to be more aware of transgenders because a lot of the issues you mentioned are of people just not understanding you or holding too fast to gender roles. Do you think, if people were more open to your conflicting gender and more accepting of it, you would've been satisfied with merely being transgender and not becoming transsexual?

Slurpee
09-06-2011, 08:29 PM
Maybe. If people were more understanding as just treated me as a male maybe it would be so. But I will never know seeing as people aren't like that.

Psy
09-07-2011, 04:27 PM
I saw cypress question and it reminded me of a documentary or special or what ever you would call it on a man who was born male but thru a botched circumcision he lost his penis and then was raised as a girl. Here is the wiki
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
He was forced to do allot of horrible things and told he was a girl and should only do things girls did but they felt unnatural to him. The documentary on him had more than the wiki does and I remember him saying that everyone wanted him to play with barbies but he wanted to play with g.I. Joes or something.

I think this is a good case for trans peoples about knowing what you are and not identifying as what you physically are or what people think and say you are as well as the negative effects of being forced to conform to a gender you don't mentally fit.

Psy
09-11-2011, 12:30 AM
. . . . OK! Well while I was looking somthing up i stumbled across this website ExodusInternational.com (http://exodusinternational.org/about-us/what-does-exodus-believe/). I have only just started to peruse the site but I am really just baffled by these people. They believe that Homosexuality can be cured thru god counseling and prayer. I think its bull shit but i decided i would post it so you all can see what the otherside of the coin thinks.

Right off the bat I notice that they deem LGBT people as power crazed people who want more rights than those who are straight (and this is from a suposed former homosexual apperently). They believe Mathew shepards case was tragic but because it was a loss of life and not because it was a loss of a gay youth as everyone makes it out to be. Obviously they are ignoring the fact or they are just not up on what happened because Mathew sheppard was brutally beaten and left for dead BECAUSE HE WAS GAY! The site allso mentions that more homosexuals come from disfunctional families than any other. So I guess if you got a screwed up family you better get on your knees and pray or find a boyfriend (but still stay on your knees).

Check out the site and tell me what you can agree with or see where they are coming from or what ever.

(Allso i dont think this counts as a double post since i posted last time like 2 days ago and this is somthing new .. . . . if not SORRY MODS!)

Gedeon
09-11-2011, 06:26 AM
Meh i just think that its a new way for the church to get some new believers... not that its right though(one of many things)

Slurpee
09-11-2011, 07:01 PM
More nutjobs. Every nation needs to take its nutjobs and just leave them all on an island so they can be crazy together.

Kodos
09-11-2011, 08:06 PM
There's already one America on Earth; for fuck's sake we don't need another.

CypressDahlia
09-11-2011, 08:11 PM
It's dumb to think that it's something you can heal, nevertheless something you can heal through faith. I mean, even among our actual diseases, you can't heal any of them just by converting.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-11-2011, 08:47 PM
Nah man, God heals amputees all the time.

It would be right to laugh at people who think you can 'cure' homosexuality through prayer or faith healing or biscuits or whatever, but this does do real harm to young gay people by making them think that are somehow abnormal and in need of saving. But isn't that Christianity in a nutshell? I personally think all you gay guys should go to their houses and rape them till they bleed bile.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-11-2011, 09:33 PM
The site allso mentions that more homosexuals come from disfunctional families than any other.
I would be surprised if that wasn't ture. Though, that's probably true because the child is gay and the parents are homophobes ... :/

Kodos
09-11-2011, 10:26 PM
You know, that reminds me. I'm too lazy to look myself, and maybe someone in the thread has the stats? If not, I'll check later.

Is there a higher incidence of homosexual or bisexual (or otherwise non-heteronormative sexuality) among homosexual or otherwise non-hetero parents? I imagine there would be, and I'm curious if there is.

I'm not saying the kids catch TEH GAY. I'm saying that I think these parents would be more accepting on average, for obvious reasons, and that thus the children of theirs who were already homosexual might be more able and willing to both acknowledge this about themselves, and to come out of the closet. So that the statistics would be skewed due to visibility rather an actual prevalence.

Sort of like how the increase in cases of autism over the years isn't due to autism being more common, but rather due to improved abilities to diagnose and recognize it. It's a question of visibility and not occurrence.

ClockHand
09-11-2011, 11:33 PM
What is a not-disfunctional family?

Kodos
09-12-2011, 03:39 AM
One made up of a white heterosexual Christian man and a white heterosexual Christian woman who both speak English, duh.

Slurpee
09-12-2011, 05:04 PM
... that still exists in this country? lol

Bacon_Barbarian
09-12-2011, 05:08 PM
Sort of like how the increase in cases of autism over the years isn't due to autism being more common, but rather due to improved abilities to diagnose and recognize it. It's a question of visibility and not occurrence.

The thing about Autism, and ADD/HD as well, is that it's also easy to diagnose when it isn't there. Kids are hyper, you know? (I feel like I'm completely missing the point.)

Statistically speaking, it's still the majority. Or so I'd bet. Though, census data says that there are less caucasians now.

Lucy
09-12-2011, 06:15 PM
Lucy is actually a robot sent back in time by Skynet to kill John Connor.

DAMMIT KODOS. You are why my disguises never work! *hurls trucks all over the place and utilizes an unnecessary number of explosion special effects*

Anyway since I'm pretty sure nobody has given a straight answer yet and I don't know if Gedeon is still wondering, so: I'm trans. Used to be a dude, but I fail so hilariously at functioning as a male that I can't live this way, so I'm slowly becoming female. I find it sweet some of the things you guys say while I'm away ♥

Has anyone noticed something going on recently, like a sudden surge of trans out-ness? I don't know if it's just because I'm growing up and everybody around me is more mature and open with themselves, but my trans peer pool has grown from me and a bunch of people on the internet to twelve or more people I know personally, completely on its own, in the space of a few months. Peer support feels good man, but this is sudden.

Anyway, for the topic at hand, I'd like to just throw it in that psychology is still pretty much a pseudoscience at this point. It's come a long, long way since its inception, but due to its nature there's always going to be a bat-shit insane proportion of false diagnoses unless someone discovers some kind of purely scientific way to determine with 100&#37; certainty that someone has a genuine problem. As our magnificent chum Bacon pointed out, people show symptoms of disorders which they don't have a lot of the time, but because they don't have anything else to go on, if you match up with the DSM, IDC, or what have you, that's a diagnosis, even though you could be just a bit weird.

Personal example, Mother is convinced I'm autistic because she did some random test when I was little, and lo and behold, I'm a bit odd so I ticked some of the boxes. After this she sent me to a LOT of psychotherapists (her answer to all of life's problems, it seems) and most of them thought I was fine, but one or two were prepared to diagnose. It's an imperfect art, unfortunately, so, ummm, make of that what you will.


I personally think all you gay guys should go to their houses and rape them till they bleed bile.
I'll join in on this while I still have the tool. Recently got handed a flyer for some faith healing thing while I was at a gay pride march? Wtf? Yeah I kicked him and missed his junk a little but I think I got a pressure point on his leg so it's good.



Hmm. I think maybe society needs to be more aware of transgenders because a lot of the issues you mentioned are of people just not understanding you or holding too fast to gender roles. Do you think, if people were more open to your conflicting gender and more accepting of it, you would've been satisfied with merely being transgender and not becoming transsexual?
I personally reckon I'd be okay if I could get treated as a lady without being one, I'd certainly wouldn't need treatment as drastic as what I am going through now. A lot of people find the body unnatural though.



This whole post is probably missing a lot of the point all over the goddamn place. Sorry. ♥

Bacon_Barbarian
09-12-2011, 06:30 PM
I'll join in on this while I still have the tool. Recently got handed a flyer for some faith healing thing while I was at a gay pride march? Wtf? Yeah I kicked him and missed his junk a little but I think I got a pressure point on his leg so it's good.


Right. That was productive. Now he'll surely come around to seeing things your way.

Outcast
09-12-2011, 07:21 PM
Yeah religious assholes will totally change their views on things.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-12-2011, 07:24 PM
Mmmmm. Maybe not the extremists, but you're only making yourself look worse. There are religious people who don't, hate gays.

Kodos
09-12-2011, 07:30 PM
Not that I condone violence, but in fairness the odds of a person so divorced from reality that they believe no only that homosexual people are sick and need healing but also that you can send psychic messages to an invisible sky overlord from bronze age mythology as a way to cure disease are pretty slim.

And I'd argue psychology is a bit more like a protoscience at this point. There's a lot of it that is very sound and works - even if it's poorly applied by most practitioners - and there's a lot of it that's complete bunk. But my point stands, for the most part. And there are other non-psychological diseases you can substitute for autism which work just as well. Point is that as science marches on and we are better able to recognize and provide care for sick people, we are going to notice more and more cases of these sicknesses - not because these sicknesses are genuinely becoming more endemic (although some may be) but simply because we as a civilization have gotten better at recognizing them.

As for increasing trans openness, I imagine it may have to do with the fact the Western world is kind of going apeshit and basically the sane liberal elements are going all out while the insane conservative elements do the same.

And Lucy - you *are* a lady already. Gender is about your identity, not other people's assessment thereof. If you say you are a lady, then okay, you're a lady as far as I'm concerned.
Well, a murder robot lady from the future, but still a lady.

OTOH I'm pretty sure to be a man you must be as swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, have all the strength of a raging fire and be as mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

Fenn
09-12-2011, 07:55 PM
And Lucy - you *are* a lady already. Gender is about your identity, not other people's assessment thereof. If you say you are a lady, then okay, you're a lady as far as I'm concerned.

Um, I'm not experienced in this field/area of life, but isn't the issue more about society pushing gender roles than self-definition of gender? I mean, I think you should be able to act in any way you want, but scientifically if you have male-defining organs shouldn't you be defined a male? It seems like the problem is more that society has pushed men and women into specific roles despite the fact that some men wish to act like "women" (in quotes because it refers to how we describe women socially rather than physically) and some women wish to act like "men."

Bacon_Barbarian
09-12-2011, 07:58 PM
This is why I say gender doesn't exist! You have an assigned sex, yes, but no gender. :D

Kodos
09-12-2011, 08:02 PM
Gender clearly exists. It may be a social construct, sure, but it clearly exists in the hearts and minds of people. The fact that pretty much every single person on Earth has some form of gender identity, the fact that every single culture to my knowledge has had a concept of gender, and the fact that people are sometimes born with feelings of gender-sex dissonance all suggest very strongly that there is something innate in humans that makes us adopt gender identities.

Gender roles are more fluid and socially based, obviously but the idea of "this is a man, this is a woman." seems to be much more primal. And it makes sense, on some level. We are a sexually reproducing species. It is obviously vital that we be able to identify potential mates and potential rivals.


Um, I'm not experienced in this field/area of life, but isn't the issue more about society pushing gender roles than self-definition of gender? I mean, I think you should be able to act in any way you want, but scientifically if you have male-defining organs shouldn't you be defined a male? It seems like the problem is more that society has pushed men and women into specific roles despite the fact that some men wish to act like "women" (in quotes because it refers to how we describe women socially rather than physically) and some women wish to act like "men."
That is sex, not gender. I can't speak for others, but for myself I generally use male/female when I am talking about sex and other gendered terms when talking about gender - unless the context makes it clear that I am talking about sex and not gender.

Also sex itself is also somewhat fluid. The overwhelming majority of humans can be lumped in with one end or the other of the spectrum, but you always have abnormalities (I use the term in the scientific and statistical sense - not the moral sense, obviously) like intersex people and the odd-off XXY chromosomed person and crap like that.

Basically when you consider all the things that can go wrong (again I use the term wrong here from the standpoint of biology and not morality) during fetal development and childbirth, it's kind of shocking that most humans are still born with a binary gender and more or less sound mind and healthy body.

CypressDahlia
09-12-2011, 08:13 PM
In psychology, they refer to your expressed sex as "gender" and your biological sex as "sex".

Bacon_Barbarian
09-12-2011, 08:15 PM
Maybe, I've been under the influence of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance lately ... I don't really see anything wrong with the lable of man and woman, as long as they are both allowed to do the same things/must do the same things (as biologically possible).


In psychology, they refer to your expressed sex as "gender" and your biological sex as "sex".

Why do we need an expressed sex? Hmmmm?

CypressDahlia
09-12-2011, 08:17 PM
Yes, as long as we have women born in mens' bodies and vice versa.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-12-2011, 08:26 PM
But if we didn't have expressed sex, we wouldn't have that problem.

Fenn
09-12-2011, 08:30 PM
But isn't the maintaining of such labels a perpetuation of the social stereotypes of men and women?

Definitions such as homosexual, bisexual, etc make sense because they are referring to sexual orientation. The "expressive sex" of man and woman, rather, would not exist if we didn't stereotype men and women based on their actions.

Look at examples such as tomboys. They perform in most ways like a heterosexual female: they have female organs and are attracted to males. Yet they act in some manners in ways that usually are considered the domain of men. Where does the line between tomboy and transsexual even lie?

CypressDahlia
09-12-2011, 08:33 PM
No, we would. What you're talking about is getting rid of gender roles, which would only solve half the problem as transgender people are also at odds with their own bodies, not just their gender roles. So that's why there is a separate term for that: to identify that conflict between mind and body. The purpose is purely semantic.

Kodos
09-12-2011, 09:07 PM
But isn't the maintaining of such labels a perpetuation of the social stereotypes of men and women?

Definitions such as homosexual, bisexual, etc make sense because they are referring to sexual orientation. The "expressive sex" of man and woman, rather, would not exist if we didn't stereotype men and women based on their actions.

Look at examples such as tomboys. They perform in most ways like a heterosexual female: they have female organs and are attracted to males. Yet they act in some manners in ways that usually are considered the domain of men. Where does the line between tomboy and transsexual even lie?
No because the simple fact is that, as I said, every single society seems to have a concept of gender, and then the simple fact of the existence of non-cis people suggests strongly too that the idea of gender is something innate to the human mind. For whatever reason humans seem to innately form gender identities, and every once in a while it seems that this identity doesn't quite match up with their actual sex.

Gender roles can be done away with without causing harm, but I don't think it is possible or desirable to remove the concept of gender.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-12-2011, 09:10 PM
Not to be an ass, but how so?

Fenn
09-12-2011, 10:24 PM
No because the simple fact is that, as I said, every single society seems to have a concept of gender, and then the simple fact of the existence of non-cis people suggests strongly too that the idea of gender is something innate to the human mind. For whatever reason humans seem to innately form gender identities, and every once in a while it seems that this identity doesn't quite match up with their actual sex.

Gender roles can be done away with without causing harm, but I don't think it is possible or desirable to remove the concept of gender.

Alright then. It just gets me nervous that I'm gonna offend someone because they appear to me to be of one gender even though they identify with another.

Lucy
09-13-2011, 01:38 PM
Alright then. It just gets me nervous that I'm gonna offend someone because they appear to me to be of one gender even though they identify with another.Don't be too nervous about that. While it's upsetting for a trans person to be called by pronouns and stuff that they don't identify with, it's their job to inform you that you're using the wrong ones, or present as the gender/sex they want you to know them as. If the person you are talking to is reasonable, then you should only really offend them if you knowingly try to force it on them or something. People who expect you to read their mind are simply unreasonable.


Also, I mainly kicked the religious nut because of the cheek of what he was doing at a gay pride parade. I find it quite offensive that he'd go up to a bunch of people who are happy living the way they are living and basically say "Your lifestyle is some kind of sinful affliction! Bow down to me and my superstitions!" It was immature, but bite me, someone was going to and I'm pretty sure he'd rather it was a lanky, scrawny translady that one of the bear gays that would pound the shit out of him instead. Additionally, tell me you haven't ever done anything silly because someone was being an asshole and I'll tell you you're lying. Human condition, and all that.

Kodos
09-13-2011, 02:19 PM
Lucy, the problem Conservatives and religious people have with you and non heternormative sexual orientations and gender identities is not your lifestyle, or your actions. It's the mere fact you exist.

To quote something I wrote on my facebook a whiles back:
We like to think in binaries - simple ones at that. Day is not-night, a girl is a not-boy, and so on. And transgender and genderqueer individuals threaten that cozy binary. Suddenly we have girls who cannot be defined as simply as 'not-boy'. It's terrifying for a lot of people, I think, not only because of the innate human hatred of that which is different, but because it challenges our own preconceived views of what and who we are. No longer can a man identify himself simply as a not-girl. It forces people to be introspective and forge for themselves their own identities, rather than those society handed them, and for most of us that is a terrifying prospect and it is much easier to simply hate and denigrate the non-binary other than it is to - pardon the rather sexist terminology, but I am sleepy and cannot think of another turn of phrase that works quite as well - man the fuck up and define yourself on your own terms.

I imagine the same argument can be laid at issues regarding homosexuals and bisexuals and other non-heteronormative sexualities. They challenge our binary definitions. The religious nonsense and other filth just provide a cozy post-facto rationalization for these hatreds/fears and create a diseased cultural environment in which this sort of perverse thinking can not only survive, but thrive.

Lucy
09-13-2011, 02:35 PM
^Captain Kodos sails the HMS Truth into another informative adventure, fun for all the family. I should be more careful how I word things. If you weren't here clearing shit up I'd probably have most of the populace thinking that I defined myself as bigendered or something rather than a woman.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-13-2011, 05:22 PM
Also, I mainly kicked the religious nut because of the cheek of what he was doing at a gay pride parade.
I totally missed that bit.

Slurpee
09-13-2011, 06:35 PM
I just find it absolutely strange how I haven't met anyone homophobic in my school. o_o I tell everyone I'm a boy and they're like "okay cool".
Where I used to live people thought I worshiped Satan.

Lucy
09-13-2011, 06:43 PM
Ohmygoshyay Slurps =D Happy for you. Supportive environment makes for happytime. People are awesome sometimes. School's one of the best places to come out, methinks.

I've met one homophobe at college, that I can recall, so far.
I was wearing a frilly dress and playing an electric guitar at the time.
'twas awesome.

Delphinus
09-13-2011, 06:46 PM
The only real homophobe I know has gone to study at a bible school. In Switzerland.

The Lord truly giveth.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-13-2011, 07:20 PM
I just find it absolutely strange how I haven't met anyone homophobic in my school. o_o I tell everyone I'm a boy and they're like "okay cool".
Where I used to live people thought I worshiped Satan.

Well, if they don't know you were ever actually a girl.

Kodos
09-13-2011, 09:37 PM
Semi unrelated, but I still find it one of the most ironic things in the world that Iran murders homosexuals but helps out transgender people. What the fuck is that shit? It would be downright hilarious if it wasn't for the whole fact that it's actually happening to real innocent people. I mean talk about cognitive dissonance, Jesus Christ.

Outcast
09-13-2011, 10:13 PM
They're a man in a woman's body who wants to have relations with women, they are straight.


Best explanation I could come up with.

Kodos
09-13-2011, 10:41 PM
From the viewpoint of a religious lunatic, though, transgender people seem like the ultimate blasphemy. It's implying that God fucked up so bad that he put a woman in a man's body and that humanity has to step in and fix his mistake.

Fenn
09-13-2011, 10:55 PM
I wish I've met and gotten to know more LGBT people. It's like I'm all ready to prove to myself I'm accepting but all I find are strait people like myself...not that strait people are bad or anything!

Bacon_Barbarian
09-13-2011, 10:58 PM
^ Wut.

KODOS: BIOLOGY MAKES NO MISTAKES!!/SCIENCEFAG (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL)

Blue_Dragon
09-14-2011, 01:11 AM
I wish I've met and gotten to know more LGBT people. It's like I'm all ready to prove to myself I'm accepting but all I find are strait people like myself...not that strait people are bad or anything!

Thing is, you probably do know more people who are LGBT. There are plenty of "masculine" homosexuals that don't speak or act any different than a straight male, except in that he goes to bed with a man. And I have girlfriends who are not masculine, but are homosexual (they actually dress like I do...hippie style.) Or you might know some people who are in the closet, so you could put your good will to use by staying positive about your views on LGBT--it'll help them if they are in the closet so they know you have nothing against them and could offer support should they decide to come out (this is all a hypothetical, of course, but possible. I had a friend in high school I never knew was gay, but he finally came out to me once I was in college. He new I didn't care about that, so it probably helped a bit.)

I get pissed off at the chats that my boyfriend goes to, because so many of the men are prejudice against each other. If you ever go to Gay Black Chat or Adam for Adam, you'll find that people are so mean to each other. No fems, no old heads, no versatiles, no trans, no bis, no bears, and if you have HIV, a lot of times people will post horrible attacks on your profile. I don't understand: if you're put in a situation where you get discriminated against just for being homosexual, why would you subject others to the same ignorance you have to deal with, just cause you're not attracted to that specific type of person? I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut, I think I'd be arguing with everyone. I have over his shoulder before, but he says its no use bothering with it.

So...I brought that up just to show people really are all the same, regardless of sexuality or gender or whatever.

Lucy
09-14-2011, 12:58 PM
^ Wut.

KODOS: BIOLOGY MAKES NO MISTAKES!!/SCIENCEFAG (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL)

I don't know if you're just like really deadpan or what because Kodos is arguing the opposite of that.
Biology makes mistakes, that's how we get people born with certain conditions and the mutations over time that lead to evolution. If everything were to be made by an omnipotent being, then the mistakes would not make sense.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-14-2011, 03:27 PM
I'm just really incredibly deadpan.

Lucy
09-14-2011, 06:37 PM
Fab. It's weird how that actually counts as deadpan on the internet, even though it was typed in caps with multiple exclamation marks and a great big LOLOLOL stuck on the end.

Gedeon
09-14-2011, 07:06 PM
im lost! Whats a deadpan? (first thought was a dead frying pan)

Blue_Dragon
09-14-2011, 08:14 PM
Deliberately impassive or expressionless: "a deadpan tone"

I stole this definition, by the way.

Bacon_Barbarian
09-14-2011, 08:16 PM
Fab. It's weird how that actually counts as deadpan on the internet, even though it was typed in caps with multiple exclamation marks and a great big LOLOLOL stuck on the end.

Yeah ... The internet is sort of problematic that way.

Psy
09-16-2011, 03:09 AM
I'm just really incredibly deadpan.

You realise that by saying this that your biology post is just spam right?

I am late on this one (im bad).


Charles Robbins is the executive director and CEO of The Trevor Project, the leading national organization focused on crisis and suicide prevention efforts among LGBTQ youth.

When two 11-year-old boys died by suicide in April of this year after enduring relentless anti-gay bullying at their separate schools, shocked citizens across the country were forced to come to terms with an uncomfortable but blatant epidemic. The hallways of schools, homes, churches and other places where all young people should be able to safely learn and grow are plagued with its tragic prevalence. Youth who identify as or are perceived to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or questioning (LGBTQ) struggle with depression and thoughts of suicide at a disproportionately high rate as a result of the increased risk factors sexual minorities face.

A new study released in August by the UCLA School of Public Health found that lesbian, gay and bisexual people are twice as likely as heterosexual men and women to seek help from mental health professionals. This recently-revealed conclusion perfectly illustrates the already often-noted statistic determined by a Massachusetts Youth Risk Behavior Survey published in 2007: LGBTQ youth are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers – a fact we’re all too familiar with at The Trevor Project. Perhaps more off-putting than this distressing statistic is that only 14 states even bother to collect sexual orientation data in their Youth Risk Behavior Surveys. The remaining 72% of states ignore the opportunity to obtain vital information about a subculture of young people who are already all too often left without the support networks and resources they desperately need. As disheartening stories such as Carl Walker-Hoover’s and Jaheem Herrera’s (the two 11-year-old boys) surface more frequently, the harsh realities force us to address the preventable nature of these tragedies.

This week, we recognize National Suicide Prevention Week, and are reminded that when young people have a safe place or person to turn to in times of crisis, suicide is preventable. In fact, a 2006 survey released in "Psychology in the Schools" found that sexual minority adolescents who believed they had one school staff member with whom they could discuss problems were only one-third as likely to report making multiple suicide attempts than those without that support. Lower victimization rates and suicidality among sexual minority youth have also been linked with supportive resources such as the availability of non-academic counseling, anti-bullying policies and peer support groups. Therefore, we know that when we foster safe and accepting environments to begin with, and effectively intervene when warning signs arise, we can absolutely empower young people to live.

The logistical process of ensuring that all young people, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity, remain safe and have access to the mental health resources they need, can seem intimidating to parents, teachers and concerned friends. Yet, reaching out to youth and alerting them that resources exist is the simplest and most important step.

Call volume on The Trevor Project’s helpline reached an all-time high this summer. In the month of July alone, nearly 2,700 calls were fielded from despondent youth across the country. Nine of those callers required emergency "rescue" services to be deployed for help. But we know that despite this recent influx in calls, the tremendous need has always existed. The difference is that more young people know about our helpline now. For a parent, teacher, friend or peer to reach out and tell someone who is struggling about our services is so simple, but it is a gesture often overlooked.

The broader steps to preventing suicide among all youth require people and communities to advocate for the safer, more inclusive environments they need. We must push for local and federal policies and mandates that provide young people with access to appropriate resources and educate them about suicide prevention and the potentially life-threatening impacts of language and behavior.

One such policy, California’s Minor Mental Health Consent Bill, can (if passed) potentially demolish the roadblocks that prevent youth from accessing the mental health treatment they

need. In April, more than 200 young Californians gathered at the State Capitol during Queer Youth Advocacy Day to educate lawmakers about why this bill is important, and why they count on their own communities and elected officials to support such legislation. On a national level, the Safe Schools Improvement Act, which The Trevor Project and a stream of other national organizations support, could potentially give schools the final push they need to implement anti-bullying policies and prevention programs that protect all students.

National Suicide Prevention Week will come and go this year. Unfortunately, for many LGBTQ young people, thoughts of depression, feelings of isolation and helplessness or hopelessness will not. As they yearn to simply be accepted and supported, we must advocate for places, programs and policies that prioritize their safety and well-being.

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TheTrevorProject.org (http://www.thetrevorproject.org/)

Slurpee
09-16-2011, 05:05 PM
Ohmygoshyay Slurps =D Happy for you. Supportive environment makes for happytime. People are awesome sometimes. School's one of the best places to come out, methinks.

I've met one homophobe at college, that I can recall, so far.
I was wearing a frilly dress and playing an electric guitar at the time.
'twas awesome.

I know it's so funny. One person said
"well damn, that explains A LOT"
One guy even offered to help me buy a binder ;_ ;

@Psy
Does the Trevor network have any tips on helping a friend who feels suicidal?

Psy
09-16-2011, 05:55 PM
yes they do http://www.thetrevorproject.org/ycare

Fenn
09-19-2011, 09:11 AM
Just watched "Todo Sobre Me Madre," (All About My Mother). Any one else seen it (am I silly for asking that?) It was very influential for me.

And yes I used subtitles. I'm not THAT bilingual.

Psy
09-19-2011, 05:09 PM
I have no idea what that is and yes I could google it (and since it was posted here I would assume it has some lgbt element to it) but knowing nothing about it will likely stop me from doing so.
When you ask a question in a thread you have to give some info on it like what it's about (without giving spoilers). Otherwise it's like asking "hey guys did you see that thing?" and expecting everyone to just know what you mean.
So please if you will just put a little summary in there to catch the interest of some people but not so much to spoil the movie itself (I'm assuming it's a movie) thank you.

Fenn
09-19-2011, 05:39 PM
I have no idea what that is and yes I could google it (and since it was posted here I would assume it has some lgbt element to it) but knowing nothing about it will likely stop me from doing so.
When you ask a question in a thread you have to give some info on it like what it's about (without giving spoilers). Otherwise it's like asking "hey guys did you see that thing?" and expecting everyone to just know what you mean.
So please if you will just put a little summary in there to catch the interest of some people but not so much to spoil the movie itself (I'm assuming it's a movie) thank you.

A movie by Pedro Almodovar that deals with themes of prejudice and tolerance regarding transvestites (who I'm assuming are part of the LGBTQ community but I could be ignorant) as well as homosexuality and AIDS.

Thank you for not raging at me.

Blue_Dragon
09-19-2011, 11:13 PM
Hey clock, you get a chance to see Law of Desire (La Ley de Deseo)?

It's about a homosexual film writer who falls in with an obsessed fan (Antonio Banderas) and his family (a brother who is now his sister and the relationship he and his father had, as well as a daughter he had before his gender-change--I think. I forget whose daughter she is...it's been a while.) Anyway, its this weird tangled web with his family and religion and this fan who won't leave him be. It's a really good film, though definitely pretty dark as well. I figured since you like Almodovar films, you may have seen it, too.

Lots of butt shots, too, of Antonio Banderas (though his character is a creep.)

IMDb Website (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093412/)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-V2WFRUa5T8/S5ZqkNpDS9I/AAAAAAAAAMQ/82gOhCmpY54/s400/ley_almodovar2.jpg

Slurpee
09-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Ah!! I love Antonio Banderas. Also, today is the day Don't Ask Don't Tell comes into effect.
Great day today! :)

Fenn
09-20-2011, 03:51 PM
Ah!! I love Antonio Banderas. Also, today is the day Don't Ask Don't Tell comes into effect.
Great day today! :)

Wait I'm confused didn't the LGBT community want that gone?

Slurpee
09-20-2011, 06:47 PM
No i meant the repealling of it. My mistake. Sorry. VERY SORRY!!!!!

Fenn
09-20-2011, 07:10 PM
No i meant the repealling of it. My mistake. Sorry. VERY SORRY!!!!!

Okay, for a second I thought everything I knew about life was wrong. That usually only happens in Delph and Kodos threads...

ClockHand
09-20-2011, 11:15 PM
BlueDragon@
No I haven't see it, and I know its kinda old but I just haven't watched.

My favorite is Hedwig and The Angry Inch, its just awesome and inspire me a lot for painting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIRaDU9duQA&feature=related



A few days ago I went (alone duuh) to a exposition that showed the sketches of Francis Bacon, and it was quiet interesting if you knew he was gay, but beyond that, his representation of the sexuality in his sketches where you can see a problem choosing the sex of his paints (example, a dick over a vagina) and also in his interpretation of faces (the faces on the sketches are a mess). Which made me question myself, was he gay or his sexual identification goes beyond that? Because in his sketches you can see a problem choosing the sex of the characters, he deform the face of those and even more he always do them with glasses and mustache (you can barely see those features on the draws because are a mess) which obviously have a big deal with his father relationship (but some people claim that in some moment it was more related to one of his lovers... still I don't know), and finally in his finished job he obviously destroy the human face making it anti-aesthetic and asexual in certain point.

Well the text was just to gave a moment and though to a great painter who was also gay.

http://pekinhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/francis_bacon_gallery_4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_juM_L9fr5yM/TKJGI70jFbI/AAAAAAAAC4c/mrHnEGe3I84/s1600/francis-bacon.jpg

Blue_Dragon
09-20-2011, 11:28 PM
^That one's craaaazy :3 I think we should start a LGBT movie thread. There are so many good ones! Besides Broke Back Mountain, which is all a lot of people can think of for this genre. There are plenty of good ones that deal with the subject in a positive light.

ClockHand
09-20-2011, 11:31 PM
It will die, trust me. Any movie thread I have tried to make has die -.-

Psy
09-22-2011, 03:51 AM
Thank you for explaining fenn that was a very nice summary.

I think I've only seen one real gay movie (I honestly don't know it to Wong Fu counts) an it's "get real". About a highschool kid that gets into a relationship with a popular guy from school and is trying to play it all straight because in his town gays are seen as perverse sickos. It was really good when I saw it but I haven't watched it in forever. To YouTube!

ClockHand
09-27-2011, 12:06 PM
A week ago a campaign against domestic abuse (specially focus to the abuse against womans) started and the slogan is the following -Fag, is the one who hit a woman-. When I first saw the image I start thinking "Is it right to use the word Fag as pejorative to call mans who hit their wifes? at the end you are using the word with the same denotation as it has always had, the only difference is that you named the ones who hit their wifes". But also the representative of this campaign is gay (does the LGBTQ of here approved the slogan of the campaign?).

So I didn't give any more though to this and the LGBTQ said no word about it either, so I guess everything was ok. But today a lot of letters start coming from homophobic groups about how the denotation of Fag is tried to be changed and blaming tv channels to trying to change the denotation of the word.

So is this people showing us how the denotation of the word is changing? or the denotation will keep being the same, and will only change the insulted? At the moment the only ones who are angry are homophobics because they don't want the denotation of word to change.

CypressDahlia
09-27-2011, 01:18 PM
The word "gay" is hardly literal anymore. It's definitely steering away from actual homosexuality. It's better that way.

Kodos
09-28-2011, 12:45 PM
That's like saying there's nothing uncomfortable or disquieting if we suddenly decided to use the word "nigger" to describe people who are loud and poorly behaved, regardless of race.

The word 'fag' and other anti-gay pejoratives are inextricably linked with a history of anti-gay sentiment and hatred. And still heavily used in that context.

Also while I know the heart is in the right place, I'm reminded of a series of TV ads which went along the lines of "you taught him to throw a ball, you taught him to ride a bike, but what else will you teach him?" while a kid watched as his father abused his mother, and then the end stinger of "violence against women is always wrong."

Really we ought to be instilling the idea that violence against anyone outside of rarefied contexts is wrong. Men who hit women aren't 'fags' men who hit anyone for any reason outside of self defense and a handful of others are 'fags'.

EDIT: Also using "men who hit women are fags" is still heavily homophobic, come to think of it. It's clearly tying in masculinity and machismo and contrasting it to homosexuality. The man is a fag because hitting women is weak and feminine - it's gay and not a thing macho men do. It's still drawing a strong connection between femininity and male homosexuality and portraying both things as bad.

Gedeon
09-28-2011, 02:54 PM
Simply put, people always thought of gey's as a bad thing so as with other *bad things* they'll use it to portray something bad.

Psy
09-28-2011, 03:04 PM
Agreed.
I can see why they would use fag in such a way because we as lgbt people do not identify ourselves as "fags". Other people think we are fags and associate the word with us in a negative way so using it as an insult against anyone is insulting to us. Using it in this campaign is saying " a man who hits a woman is a man who is so morally irreprehensible that he is gay.".

There is this stereotype that I keep hearing now that I haven't heard in forever and it's irritating "gay guys hate women. Even lesbians.". That makes no sense. I am more comfortable around women than men. I am jealous of women because it would just be so much easier (on me) had I been born a girl.

Kodos
09-28-2011, 04:10 PM
Actually I don't think it's that men who hit women are as bad as gays. I think it's got more to do with machismo. It's both homophobic and misogynistic. It's saying that women are weak and helpless little snowflakes so any man who would hit them is clearly not very manly because he is so weak he can only fight women. Real men hit men, but faggy men hit women because they are weak.

Psy
09-28-2011, 04:43 PM
I see your point and that does make sense.

Socrates
09-28-2011, 08:50 PM
One time I watched HGTV and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Should I be concerned?

ClockHand
09-28-2011, 09:12 PM
I believe the point of the campaign is what Kodo says, like trying to say "a macho man doesn't hit womans", but also I believe it can be read as Psy says "you are so bad as a gay person". And the whole slogan is made for misunderstood it (bad = gay, macho don't hit womans, gays do hit womans, etc).

So that is why I never liked the slogan and always found it very odd. But also it is made to generate noise in the public, like a troll campaign, and obviously the hate letters are the prove that the slogan works. But again, it's not the best idea to keep reaffirming this pejorative word.

Slurpee
09-29-2011, 03:17 PM
One time I watched HGTV and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Should I be concerned?

you should be concerned cuz that channel's boring as hell

jubeh
10-04-2011, 12:19 AM
Idk if you guys keep up with games but this closed world game is apparently about the hardships of being lgbtq or wat not.


A Closed World was created to be a digital game with LGBTQ-friendly content, something that's very uncommon in games right now.

Its actually p nuts, and you can play it through a browser.

http://gambit.mit.edu/loadgame/aclosedworld.php

ClockHand
10-04-2011, 12:33 AM
jubeh@ so the game is like Donkey Kong?

Slurpee
10-04-2011, 06:57 PM
how is donkey kong....
I don't get it.
@jubeh ima check it out...

Kodos
10-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Gay people, like Donkey Kong, are known for their love of throwing barrels at Italian plumbers. Duh.

Anyway, game looks interesting. I am loving the art style, although for some reason the player character looks really out of place on the world map. Can't quite place why.

ClockHand
10-04-2011, 07:40 PM
I can't grab the axe. Help.

jubeh
10-04-2011, 10:57 PM
Clock you dont need the axe dude just find the demons

ClockHand
10-04-2011, 10:59 PM
What kind of game doesn't let me to pick the axe?

Psy
10-05-2011, 05:44 AM
Gay people, like Donkey Kong, are known for their love of throwing barrels at Italian plumbers. Duh.

Anyway, game looks interesting. I am loving the art style, although for some reason the player character looks really out of place on the world map. Can't quite place why.

Hey hey hey >:(! How do you expect us to react when those damn plumbers come in with those damn mustaches and say "oh ah no we donta giva da mustache rides!"!

Byakuran
10-05-2011, 03:17 PM
Idk if you guys keep up with games but this closed world game is apparently about the hardships of being lgbtq or wat not.

Its actually p nuts, and you can play it through a browser.



http://gambit.mit.edu/loadgame/aclosedworld.php

I played it. The voices when you start fighting the demon always creeped me out >__< but its not an hard game or a very difficult story line...It's emotional though. i liked the last scene :'D

Blue_Dragon
10-05-2011, 04:39 PM
I hope, since this is a promo, they make a longer game, that's more indepth. I enjoyed playing it, and it has a positive message for LGBT for once. :) They could do a lot with it...and make the character level up, maybe make game play a wee bit more complex (I agree with Bya that the voices are creepy. Some of the demon designs are creepy, too!) Great concept :)

Slurpee
10-05-2011, 06:24 PM
Gay people, like Donkey Kong, are known for their love of throwing barrels at Italian plumbers. Duh.
.... Are you saying what I think you're saying?

It was very fun! They must continue this project. It's an emotional thing anyone can relate too. :)

Kodos
10-05-2011, 08:29 PM
There was no hidden or subtle meaning behind that statement. If you're reading that as some sort of double entendre then it was unintentional on my part. The joke was the surface meaning of the sentence - gay people are apparently Donkey Kong.

CypressDahlia
10-05-2011, 10:27 PM
I like the monster designs. Though I feel this is a good attempt at imbuing a game with a positive LGBTQ message, I also think the way the character handles the "battles" really isn't compelling. I know you can only do so much while preserving the essence of the game itself, but most of the little 'attack blurbs' seemed kind of aggressive and childish and don't really give credit to the better arguments of pro-LGBTQ platforms.

It kinda plays the main character off as a rebellious, melodramatic teenager that is hard to take seriously. I think he/she should reflect a little more composure, to show that LGBTQ people have full confidence and pride in their beliefs.

jubeh
10-05-2011, 11:57 PM
I know you can only do so much while preserving the essence of the game itself, but most of the little 'attack blurbs' seemed kind of aggressive and childish and don't really give credit to the better arguments of pro-LGBTQ platforms.

It kinda plays the main character off as a rebellious, melodramatic teenager that is hard to take seriously. I think he/she should reflect a little more composure, to show that LGBTQ people have full confidence and pride in their beliefs.

Okay I didn't get that out of it at all.

CypressDahlia
10-06-2011, 09:34 AM
"WHY DO YOU HATE ME?!" "WHY CAN'T YOU JUST LET ME BE WHO I AM?!" "HOW CAN YOU JUDGE ME WHEN YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIFE IS SO ROCKY?!" And the last one is supposed to be Logic, but it seems more like a personal attack to me. They seem like things a teenage daughter on a sitcom would say when her parents tell her she can't get a lip piercing. Less melodrama, more composure and confidence from the main character would make the "arguments" more effective.

jubeh
10-06-2011, 02:00 PM
That sounds exactly how teenagers talk to me

CypressDahlia
10-06-2011, 04:02 PM
Yeah, and that's the problem. If I wanted someone to represent me, it wouldn't be a whiny teenager.

Outcast
10-06-2011, 09:28 PM
You know, the majority of your posts seem to be you complaining about something.

ClockHand
10-06-2011, 09:53 PM
You know, the majority of your posts seem to be you complaining about something.

You don't understand me! you'r not my dad!!!

I agree with cyp, the dialogues are BAD. I know that a teenager talk like that, but this make the game more appealing to teenager kids than for every age.

CypressDahlia
10-06-2011, 10:12 PM
You think whenever I have an opinion that it's complaining, Outcast. Stop complaining to me about it. Also, what the hell have you contributed to this discussion except whining about what I'm saying?

Outcast
10-06-2011, 10:37 PM
Can't play the game, not much to say.

CypressDahlia
10-06-2011, 10:56 PM
Then STFU. You're whining about me discussing the topic, yet you have nothing to add other than that. I mean, can you be any more hypocritical right now?

jubeh
10-06-2011, 11:13 PM
If I look at it from the point of view that the character is me then I get what you guys are saying. Though despite it asking me if I was male or female I felt like I was controlling a random teenager so for me it was fine.

CypressDahlia
10-06-2011, 11:27 PM
Well, yeah. I agree with you there. I understand the character is a teenager. And I understand s/he speaks as a teenager does. I'm just debating whether or not that's the best VOICE to represent yourself with when it comes to a controversial issue. Like if I'm going to debate abortion, I'm not going to voice my opinion like a teenager. You know what I mean? It demands very little respect. Especially since there are good arguments to be said for supporting LGBTQ people that aren't being said or being said in a way that detracts from their merits.

jubeh
10-07-2011, 12:11 AM
I didn't feel the game was an argument about anything. Like the developers said they just made it so it would exist, since people seem to be afraid of not "doing it right" when it really just needs to be done in the first place.

CypressDahlia
10-07-2011, 12:24 AM
Well I mean it's a game about a "different" person defeating demons which represent the people who have oppressed him/her. I interpreted that as pretty pro-LGBTQ, so I figured they might use more compelling material if that's the route they're taking.

ClockHand
10-07-2011, 01:08 AM
If demons are the representations of who have oppressed others, then 90&#37; of video games are pro-LGBTQ. For my the game is to blunt and direct about it, they tell you "play this game where you use a gay teenager kid fight the demon who oppressed him, using the typical arguments a stereotypical gay teenager would use".

jubeh
10-07-2011, 01:15 AM
Well I mean it's a game about a "different" person defeating demons which represent the people who have oppressed him/her. I interpreted that as pretty pro-LGBTQ, so I figured they might use more compelling material if that's the route they're taking.

That really doesn't go along with what they were trying to do at all though if you read that blurb

Kodos
10-07-2011, 01:33 AM
No, John, you are the demons.

Gedeon
10-07-2011, 03:46 AM
But we already knew that Kodos.

Lucy
10-07-2011, 05:02 AM
And then Gedeon was already fully aware he was a zombie.

Gedeon
10-07-2011, 05:22 AM
Well he HAD chunks of meat in his mouth and i saw somebody's corps in his clost in some of the pic's he posted on the "What do you look like"thread.

CypressDahlia
10-07-2011, 06:43 AM
If demons are the representations of who have oppressed others...

First of all, why would a character use gay logic to defeat demons? The battles are formatted so that you're either defeating your oppressors by winning them over or defeating them by pummeling them with your arguments. So to "win" the game you have to be a proponent in allowing the gay character to be gay. To lose the game, you have to succumb to the forces that don't want him/her to be gay. I don't see how that isn't pro-LGBTQ. I wouldn't think so if I just got to hit them with the axe. I mean the fact that you don't even get to use the axe is pretty suggestive. Why wouldn't an adventurer use an axe to kill a demon? Why debating?

Also, the demons aren't just arbitrary evil things. They represent people whose attacks consist of clear anti-gay sentiments. And you're fighting against them. I mean that alone is like a blatant metaphor. See, that's the difference between having a game about a gay guy and having a game with pro-LGBTQ undertones. If it was just a game about a gay guy...why wouldn't s/he be fighting Orcs and Goblins like the straight adventurers in every other RPG? Why is s/he fighting //enemies// -- and the player is made to interpret these things as enemies -- which represent anti-gay sentiments? If you take Donkey Kong Country and just say "well Donkey Kong is actually gay", it's just a game about a gay monkey. If you take Donkey Kong and say "well, Donkey Kong is a gay monkey and King K'Rool is an evil crocodile that exists only to oppress his sexuality and must be defeated", it's a pro-LGBTQ game.


And yeah, jubeh, it might not go along with what they were doing...but it is what the game implies.

NWAP
10-08-2011, 12:33 AM
If you take Donkey Kong Country and just say "well Donkey Kong is actually gay", it's just a game about a gay monkey.


I KNEW IT! ...all those bananas...and he only wears a Tie.

Psy
10-11-2011, 03:29 PM
Today is national coming out day (if you hadnt been informed allready or you were wondering about the plethera of gay content on tv today) so lets talk and celebrate!


National Coming Out Day was founded by Robert Eichberg and Jean O'Leary on October 11, 1988 in celebration of the second gay march in Washington D.C. a year earlier. The purpose of the march and of National Coming Out Day is to promote government and public awareness of gay, bisexual, lesbian and transgender rights and to celebrate homosexuality.

National Coming Out Day is a time to publicly display gay pride. Many choose this day to come out to their parents, friends, co-workers and themselves.
About.com:NationalComingOutDay (http://gaylife.about.com/od/comingout/a/nationalcoming.htm)


If i may i suggest that you watch "Our america with lisa ling: Pray the gay away?". She is fallowing the lives of a few people that are going thru the process (or have gone thru) to become straight and or trying to balance being gay and religious (which I personally think is a bit of a contradiction but thats just me). if i can find a youtube video of it i will post it.

Bacon_Barbarian
10-11-2011, 09:04 PM
How is being gay and religious an oxymoron? That's like saying being black and religious is an oxymoron.

Kodos
10-11-2011, 09:33 PM
Because without exception every single major religion in the Western world preaches that homosexuality is a sin? Because the Bible, a book that is the foundation of most Western religion, claims that homosexuality is a criminal offense and an abomination before God and that the correct punishment for it is death? Because religious groups are at the forefront of the anti-gay movements of the world and outside of religion it is pretty much literally impossible to try and offer a reasonable (in the sense of having reasons) reason to oppose gay marriage and other aspects of gay rights?

Fenn
10-11-2011, 09:41 PM
Because without exception every single major religion in the Western world preaches that homosexuality is a sin? Because the Bible, a book that is the foundation of most Western religion, claims that homosexuality is a criminal offense and an abomination before God and that the correct punishment for it is death? Because religious groups are at the forefront of the anti-gay movements of the world and outside of religion it is pretty much literally impossible to try and offer a reasonable (in the sense of having reasons) reason to oppose gay marriage and other aspects of gay rights?

I heard an argument that the only anti-gay sentiment in the Bible is the story of Sodom and Ghomorra, and even that is not competely clear-cut. True or fallacy?

Kodos
10-11-2011, 09:52 PM
That is complete and utter bullshit.


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
And for the NT

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

EDIT: That homosexuality is absolutely awful is one of the few things upon which the Bible is consistent. Amusingly, the other thing the Bible was pretty consistent on is that Jesus was a communist. But that's neither here nor there.

Bacon_Barbarian
10-11-2011, 11:10 PM
Because without exception every single major religion in the Western world preaches that homosexuality is a sin? Because the Bible, a book that is the foundation of most Western religion, claims that homosexuality is a criminal offense and an abomination before God and that the correct punishment for it is death? Because religious groups are at the forefront of the anti-gay movements of the world and outside of religion it is pretty much literally impossible to try and offer a reasonable (in the sense of having reasons) reason to oppose gay marriage and other aspects of gay rights?

Because most people are Christian ... Oh wait.

Kodos
10-12-2011, 07:11 AM
Christianity is the dominant religion on Earth, although Islam - which is no less friendly to homosexual behavior - is a close second. And I said the Western World. Christianity is overwhelmingly the dominant religion in the West.

Sylux
10-12-2011, 06:55 PM
I've often wondered about Krogans and homosexuality. Perhaps their aggressive culture has no room for submissive roles except played by females? But, then explain Patriarch. He was submissive, until Shepard rustled some sense into him and made him take a stand and die. Will this question go forever unanswered - or worse: unpondered?

Kodos
10-12-2011, 06:59 PM
Well to answer a question like that I think we need to first know what exactly the Krogan view of sexuality is? Do the Krogan even have a conception of sexuality as being something around which an identity is based, or is their society more like older Human cultures in that homosexuality is seen less as a identity and more as a behavior?

Also we have to bear in mind the havoc the genophage has wrought on their society, and what the scarcity of females might have done to their views on sexuality and sexually permissible behaviors.

Really the question here I think you ought to be asking is when the fuck will Garrus be finished with those damn calibrations.

Sylux
10-12-2011, 07:03 PM
I even wondered if they ever had any sexual urges, other than to reproduce? I've never seen a Krogan enjoying himself at a good Asari titty bar, just standing around with a shotgun ready to blow Shep's and everybody else's brains out. That, or prying around, trying to get Presidium fish.

Outcast
10-12-2011, 11:21 PM
Really the question here I think you ought to be asking is when the fuck will Garrus be finished with those damn calibrations.

Made me laugh way harder than it should have.

Byakuran
10-19-2011, 03:20 PM
Uhm, im not really sure this is the thread to tell this in but,

i just watched a Pakistani movie called Bol... and it shows the problems there one of them for the gay and trans :(.
It really shows how it is in those countries... also other things. But the the main side character is a boy who is born with a male body but is female inside. I think you can download the movie with english subs so... if you'd like you can watch it. It's one of the first movies that really stood out for pakistan in this ' problem ' issue imo.

Lucy
11-14-2011, 04:57 PM
LGBT thread on page 2?
STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM. YOU'VE VIOLATED THE LAW. PAY THE COURT A FINE OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE. YOUR STOLEN GOODS ARE NOW FORFEIT.
>resist arrest.
And then the thread escaped to page one.


As of today, I am dating another transgirl! Is this awesome? (Y/Y)
It sort of got me thinking though, how hard must it be for straight people to have partners who come out as trans and such? Feel a little sad aside from the HOLY SHIT MY LIFE IS AWESOME

Inksprout
11-14-2011, 06:59 PM
I recently heard a story about a friend of a friend who was dating this girl, then the girl told him she was trans and was originally a boy. He didn't mind, but then she decided she wanted to be a boy again (something like her mother insisted that she become a girl when she was younger) So now the guy has no idea what to do because shes like, I don't want to go out with you, I want to be a boy. But he really liked her :O

ClockHand
11-14-2011, 07:11 PM
Screwed JAJAJA.

If he really likes her (I think in this case I should use "love" as a word), he could stay, of course if he is not attracted to her as a boy then the relationship is screwed, but friendship could remain and it can be hilarious to talk about all this in the future, like "hey do you remember when we bang in the pool?" or "kids, did you know that I and your dad use to date?". Of course he can't be bounded to any compromise, in that relationship, because even if you say "I love you no matter what", the deal is that changing sex changes everything in the relationship (from physical attraction and behavior).

Inksprout
11-15-2011, 01:25 AM
Yeah, I kind of wish I knew more about it, just because I'm curious about how it will pan out for them but like I said, it's a friend of a friend that I've never met before. I think it would be sweet if they could stay friends though.

Sylux
11-15-2011, 07:28 PM
I would cut her dong off as soon as she got one just sayin :O

Bacon_Barbarian
11-15-2011, 07:36 PM
As of today, I am dating another transgirl!
Good for you Lucy. :)



It sort of got me thinking though, how hard must it be for straight people to have partners who come out as trans and such? Feel a little sad aside from the HOLY SHIT MY LIFE IS AWESOME
It is almost definition of absolutely, fucking horrible, and the number one reason I am homophobic! ... On that note, I think I'm a self-hating Bisexual. Aint life fun?

ClockHand
11-15-2011, 07:39 PM
It is almost definition of absolutely, fucking horrible, and the number one reason I am homophobic! ... On that note, I think I'm a self-hating Bisexual. Aint life fun?

I don't know if fucking horrible, its depend a lot of the person. I have friends that would feel completely horrified if they knew they fuck with a girl who use to be a guy, and other who would just say "every vagina is the same" and don't give to much of a weight.

The complex part is the identification of yourself in the equation.

Bacon_Barbarian
11-15-2011, 07:52 PM
Well, I know I fucking hated it.

Sylux
11-15-2011, 07:55 PM
Yeeeeah, plus it doesn't feel too nice to have a chick bail on you to go lick another chick's twat

ClockHand
11-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Well, I know I fucking hated it.

Hate can become love ;)

Sylux
11-15-2011, 07:57 PM
Or it can become stronger hate

EDIT: Or even a hat

Bacon_Barbarian
11-15-2011, 08:00 PM
Hate can become love ;)

Hahahaha, man, you're funny.

Inksprout
11-15-2011, 08:23 PM
I dunno, they've made a choice to be the gender thay wanted, and then to be with you. I feel like maybe its a little shallow to react with total horror and hatred? Fair enough if it puts you off the person but I think its important to try to be understanding even if you can't stay with that person.

Bacon_Barbarian
11-15-2011, 08:30 PM
It's also wrong to lie. Maybe, maybe it would have been alright had I known before hand, but probably not. I never would have gone out with her in the first place had I known.

ClockHand
11-15-2011, 08:31 PM
Isn't naive to change your sex and hope for your partner to understand your decision and keep being a couple? I think horror or mostly shock is the most normal feeling, hate by the other hand is in a tiny edge to insanity.

There is a big deal with "they've made a choice to be the gender they wanted", because if you threat them like monster or the sex they use to be they are attached forever to never achieve the sex they wanted. There is a point of appearance, for psychology and a point for social acceptation, you can change the body and they can accept them self (mostly because they are already psychologically accepted as that sex, the most important acceptation in the sex change is the identity ratification, that the person is happy in how she/he look), but the social acceptation is the complex one.

Bacon_Barbarian
11-15-2011, 08:37 PM
Possibly, though, I never claimed to be sane. I'm a pretty passive-aggressive person.

Inksprout
11-16-2011, 03:04 AM
I can understand being mad because they didn't tell you up front. I don't know how anyone would think that its ok unless they are incredibly naive about how other people would feel/react to finding out something like that. I'm more talking about in general, where if you meet someone, and start getting to know them and they tell you while you are friends or when you have just started to be a couple. I think it must be a really difficult decision to make to have a sex change, and something that you would have to be really serious about to go ahead with. So despite what your emotional reaction is you should try to let a rational response be the one you show.
I'd be mad as hell if I felt someone hadn't told me something like that in good time too though.

Psy
11-17-2011, 10:43 PM
Victoria Jackson has never been one to mince words, having stirred controversy for sounding off on both Occupy Wall Street and the portrayal of gay characters on "Glee" this year.

Now the former "Saturday Night Live" actress and outspoken Tea Party columnist is taking things up a notch, joining forces with pro-life activist Jannique Stewart, The Patriot Update's Ann-Marie Murrell and editor and activist Jennie Jones to launch "PolitiChicks," a new web-based weekly talk show in which the women discuss their ultra-conservative viewpoints in a format similar to "The View." The first episode is a critical take on both marriage equality and Muslims.

"Islam says kill gay people that's why I don't get why liberals are pro-Muslim, and pro-gay," Jackson asserts on the show, adding, "We're lucky that most Muslims are lukewarm or we'd all be dead."

As the show's site proclaims, "Conservatives have few outlets in the media. Other than Fox News and a few talk radio shows, Conservatives are greatly outnumbered. TV talk shows and news programs are inundated with liberal robots spewing their hatred toward all-things-Conservative; so the folks at Patriot Update have created an alternative.".

Watch the first installment below:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EcCvvJWyx4c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So i decided to put this here because it is partly LGBTQ related but its more political and horrifying. I came across this and i was like "well lets see how this goes" and i kind of regret it. Part of it is just them talking smack about liberals or making up statistics (one case of "I heard" is not a fact to me and neither are the supposed "Hundreds of cases" that were skipped over). Then it goes to "We out number them" (saying conservatives out number liberals) which i have no idea why that matters? A call to arms? I dont know but fishy still. Any whoozle im not very political but id like to hear what everyone has to say.

Blue_Dragon
11-18-2011, 12:16 AM
I would like to say to say they're all so narrow in their scope. There are some churches out there who are willing to marry lgbt couples. That aside, they're saying the churches are going to be forced to "bend" their beliefs, which impedes on their rights. What about all the few churches who believe it's okay to preside over lgbt marriages? Their right to marry lgbt couples is being impeded upon--not mention that gay marriage should be legal anyhow. Not everyone marries at a church.

Further, they're all dumb, but the woman bringing up "photography," is giving using a very shallow and meaningless example. Her statement: "I do not want to photograph someone's homosexual wedding." Hmm...how would she feel if someone said "I do not want to photograph someone's <insert race/religion/whatever here>" What if I didn't want to photograph a Christian wedding? Or "I'm a big racist bigot, and I don't want to photograph a wedding with someone of a different race?" Oh, that's "different." Because these stupid people probably don't even believe a person is born lgbt--they think it's a choice. Throw reason out the window.

Side note, I bet not one of these "chicks" has even picked up the Qur'an. And I can name terrorists who weren't Muslim: Timmothy McVei. Or how about the Columbine shooters? Nope, they're Muslim, these chicks say so. And the Bible is not peaceful everywhere. There's plenty of "kill 'em" here and there, but I better not say that because I'd be discriminating against them (even though, it's in writing! Or type.) I'm just a "loud mouth liberal."

***Oh, and I was too slow to post this, but on the previous subject of transexuals in relationships with straight guys, I watch this movie and it was decent. The main character (Wintchell) was a little irritating how slow he was (but, I guess that was the point) and I really disliked his roommate (Fisher) even if he had something wrong with him. I think my favorite characters were Calpernia and Diaz. I mean, it's a little different than the previous topic, but I wanted to post it cause it was a good film. ***


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sRGi4UFqj8

Bacon_Barbarian
12-01-2011, 08:15 PM
So, fun video. Figure most people here would have seen it by now, but he's a damn good orator.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q

Fenn
12-01-2011, 09:00 PM
Wow. Damn good speech, and not at all confrontational, which really helps considering how many guards some people throwup as soon as the topic arises.

Psy
12-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Yup its that time of year agian! Time to say no to the salvation army. *late*



Our friend Bil Browning over at the Bilerico Project has doubled-down on an important message this holiday season. He’s getting a lot of attention this year for a blog post titled “Why You Shouldn’t Donate to the Salvation Army Bell Ringers.”

The now annual post receives thousands of hits on his popular blog and for good reason. He’s asking people to avoid the bell-ringing Santas outside every supermarket and mall across the country.

And with money as tight as it is this year, we can’t help but agree with him. The Salvation Army has long been a Christian missionary association. It would be one thing if they, like some Christians, practiced tolerance and equality towards the LGBT community, but as Bil points out, since 1986, The Salvation Army has been involved in at least 5 major assaults on LGBT equality:

When New Zealand considered passage of the Homosexual Law Reform Act in 1986, the Salvation Army collected signatures in an attempt to get the legislation killed. The act decriminalized consensual sex between gay men. The measure passed over the charity’s objections.

In the United Kingdom, the Salvation Army actively pushed passage of an amendment to the Local Government Act. The amendment stated that local authorities “shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality” or “promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship.” The law has since been repealed, but it led many schools and colleges to close LGBT student organizations out of fear they’d lose their government funding.

In 2001, the organization tried to extract a resolution from the White House that they could ignore local non-discrimination laws that protected LGBT people. While the commitment would have applied to all employees, the group claimed that it needed the resolution so it “did not have to ordain sexually active gay ministers and did not have to provide medical benefits to the same-sex partners of employees.” After lawmakers and civil rights activists revealed the Salvation Army’s active resistance to non-discrimination laws, the White House admitted the charity was seeking the exemptions.

Also in 2001, the evangelical charity actively lobbied to change how the Bush administration would distribute over $24 billion in grants and tax deductions by urging the White House deny funding to any cities or states that included LGBT non-discrimination laws. Ari Fleischer, White House press secretary, issued a statement saying the administration was denying a “regulation sought by the church to protect the right of taxpayer-funded religious organizations to discriminate against homosexuals.”

In 2004, the Salvation Army threatened to close all their soup kitchens in New York City to protest the city’s decision to require all vendors and charities doing business with the city to adhere to all civil rights laws. The organization balked at having to treat gay employees equal to straight employees.

While no one wants the services the Salvation Army provides to end for those they help, we must be cognizant of where are pennies are going when we drop them in the shiny red kettle. In addition to these anti-gay fights which the Salvation Army has participated in, they have also fought in court in defense of their virulently anti-gay hiring and employment practices. So please understand that the pennies you drop in those buckets may be going to lawyers which are defending bigotry in court and coming nowhere close to buying clothes for the homeless this winter.

Instead of putting your pocket change in the kettle outside the mall, why don’t you give one of these inclusive organizations a try:

Goodwill – doing much of the same work the Salvation Army does, but also focusing on the disabled and unemployed.
The Ali Forney Center - providing shelter for homeless LGBT youth in New York City
True Colors Residence – Cyndi Lauper’s new shelter for homeless LGBT Youth
Doctors Without Borders – providing medical and emergency relief all over the world
Urban Peaks – assistance for homeless LGBT youth in Colorado
article and link to site LGBTQNATION.com (http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/12/the-salvation-army-ringing-anti-gay-bells-this-holiday-season/)



Here is another list of companys that are anti LGBT
BOYCOTT THESE ANTI-GAY COMPANIES! Do NOT give them your money! Let’s make it clear that no business has the right to profit if it discriminates against love! REBLOG, spread the word, and commit to change!

A-1 Self Storage Company: Terry Caster is the owner. It is a family (third generation) run company. They have over 40 locations in California. The Californians Against Hate blog reports: “Mr. Caster and his family have contributed $693,000 to the Protect Marriage campaign. That makes the Casters the 2nd largest individual donors to Yes on Prop 8.” [GuyDads]

AutoZone Inc: Does not offer domestic partner benefits to their employees. The company can discriminate against and exclude same-sex couples in ways they can’t do to opposite-sex (married) couples. A Fortune 500 company. [HRC buyers guide]

CBRL Group Inc. (Cracker Barrel restaurants) Operates 579 full-service Cracker Barrel restaurants and gift shops in 41 states. The business has a long history of discriminating against gays and blacks, both as employees and dinners. It had an HR policy from 1991 until 2002 that said “It is inconsistent with our concept and values, and is perceived to be inconsistent with those of our customer base, to continue to employ individuals in our operating units whose sexual preferences fail to demonstrate normal heterosexual values.” Seventeen workers were fired because they admitted or were assumed to be gay after the first few months that the policy was created. [Wikipedia] A spokesperson in 2008 said Cracker Barrel “welcomes all guests, and our equal opportunity employment statement clearly states that we will not tolerate discrimination based on sexual orientation.” However, it does not offer diversity training, domestic partner benefits or any support for their GLBT employees. It has a Corporate Equality Index score of 15/100. [HRC]

Cinemark: Alan Stock, Cinemark’s CEO, gave $9,999 to the “Yes on 8” (Protectmarriage.com) campaign. Cinemark has 2700 movie screens in North and South America. In northern California they mainly operate under Century, Cin&#233;Arts and Cinedome name. [GuyDads]

Dish Network: Company shareholders recently (6/08) shot down a proposal that would bar the company from discriminating against employees based on their sexual orientation. Dish Network also chooses not to carry LGBT cable networks Logo and Here! [Queers United]

Domino’s Pizza: While Domino’s does not directly contribute to anti-gay activity, founder Tom Monaghan has contributed heavily to initiatives and organizations that oppose the rights of GLBTs. He is a co-founder of the Thomas More Law Center, which is advocating in court to restrict access to domestic partner benefits, and in 2001 financed a ballot proposal in Ypsilanti, MI to remove sexual orientation from that city’s non-discrimination ordinance. David Brandon, the current CEO, also opposes gay marriage.

ExxonMobil: Eliminated domestic-partner benefits for same-sex partners when the two companies merged in 1999. It is the largest Fortune 500 company that does not offer domestic-partner benefits. It also refuses to ban discrimination based on orientation and gender identity. [HRC buyers guide]

Golfland Entertainment Centers: The Kenneys, the family that owns and runs this business, were big donors to the “Yes on H8”. Together they contributed over $35,000 to take rights away from gays, lesbians and their families. They run a chain of family fun centers in California and Arizona. [GuyDads]

Insure.com (online insurance quote-comparison portal): The Company is a major sponsor of Bill O’Reilly’s radio talk show and Bill gives voice to their commercial. In addition to selling insurance, they provide information about the insurance industry. In an article on the business website entitled “Top five ways to kill yourself and get away with it”, They lists the number one way to kill yourself: “1. Being gay.”
[boxturtlebullentin.com]

Manchester Grand Resorts: Doug Manchester, owner of San Diego’s Manchester Grand Hyatt Hotel and Grand del Mar Resort gave $125,000 to Yes on Prop 8 campaign. [boycottmanchesterhotels.com]
Update: 10 month boycott has so far cost the resort about $7 million dollars in lost business. Manchester has offered a $25,000 cash gift to a national organization that supports only civil unions and to make $100,000 in hotel credits to GLBT organizations. Gay groups turned down the blood money.

Meijer Inc. (Retail supercenter) Owns 180 huge grocery and general merchandise stores in the Midwest. It is a family owned business. The only good thing to be said about Meijer is “they don’t engage, that we know of, in any activity that would undermine the goals of equal rights for GLBT people,” said Jay Smith Brown, a previous HRC director for communication strategies. It has a very low Corporate Equality Index score of 15/100. It does not offer diversity training, domestic partner benefits or any support for their GLBT employees. [HRC]

OutsidePride.com: Sounds like gay banner website but, in fact, is an on-line seed and lawn care retailer. Troy Hake, the president of Outside Pride, sent a homophobic manifesto to the participants of his company’s email list, trying to rally them in a full-on campaign against “the whole CBS homosexual cartel”. He says he is not a bigot but is tired of homosexuals rewriting history. [The Consumerist]

Salvation Army: This “non-profit” religious organization is anti-gay and actively lobbies against pro-gay legislation in the US and abroad. The money you put in that red kettle is going to anti-gay evangelical Christian lobbyists. They believe that since they’re a “church” they have the right to not hire gay people because they are sinners. Salvation Army reserves the right to discriminate in hiring, promoting, and firing gay people, and in the benefits they provide their employees. And they come right out and admit that “practicing homosexuals” are not welcome in the “church.” [americablog.com]

Urban Outfitters: Richard Hayne, the Chairman of the hipsterish Urban Outfitters, is a notably right-wing Republican who generously supports GOP candidates and causes that vote for legislation against gay marriage. His company also operates stores under Free People and Anthropologie name.
NOTE: Glen Senk, the CEO of the parent company, Urban Outfitters, Inc., is an openly gay man who has been in a committed relationship for over 30 years. However, Richard Hayne is still the founder and current chairman and does indeed have a record for supporting right-wing Republicans who are against abortion and gay rights. [NYMag]

Wal-Mart Stores Inc.: Does not offer domestic partner benefits except in locations required by law. Wal-Mart is the largest retail seller of books but refuses to carry any LGBT titles in their stores. [HRC buyers guide] Wal-Mart CEO Mike Duke and his wife signed petitions to ban adoption for same-sex couples in Arkansas. [KnowThyNeighbor.org]

CypressDahlia
12-11-2011, 03:45 PM
TBH, I donate to the salvation army and I support LGBTQ rights (though my personal beliefs are mixed). I mean, when it comes down to it, we only have the luxury of debating about stuff like lifestyle choices because we have everything else we could possibly need. I wouldn't put starving kids in third-world countries on the backburner for that, no offense. Of course, I could very well do without Dominoes Pizza, Walmart or Urban Outfitters. Couldn't care less about those. Though the biggest SA efforts are in Africa, which is ironic considering, like the Japanese Bushido, a handful of older African tribal cultures had concepts of "manly love". Except, unlike the bushido, they would have anal sex with each other.

Psy
12-11-2011, 04:12 PM
I can see your point and agree with you. I dont want people to stop donating to them entirely. I am fine with donating clothes blankets and what not but money is where im iffy. If I can be assured that the money that people are putting in the bucket is not going to lobby for anti lgbt things then I would not even care for the most part. I cant say for sure that they are deffinatley using that money for anti gay purposes but considering they are a non profit orginization then there money comes from cheritable donations and government funding ment to either maintain the facilities they operate or help them help others. They shouldnt have the money to lobby for such things. To fire people to for being LGBT is going to far. They are saying you cant be gay and help people that need it.

Help shouldnt come with a stipulation and im sure that it doesnt in all of the SA but it doesnt make up for those few that do right? The other companys I myself dont use (im alergic to wheat so no dominos, I dont/cant drive so no exxonmobile/kragens now o'reileys i believe, and im too poor for the rest. Walmart is an unfortunate case that im going to struggle with>) and it was a way to inform people about the other possible ways you support the side you may not want to.

ClockHand
12-11-2011, 04:13 PM
SA is the king of help with stipulation.

CypressDahlia
12-11-2011, 04:17 PM
Yeah I will continue to donate, just not money. It's just that, and you have to admit, the SA is the biggest, most reputable and able international help organization. So donating to them lends the confidence that your stuff is ending up in the hands of people who need it. I've donated to smaller charities in the area and I noticed that fledgeling charities tend to internalize the revenue for expansion rather than giving it to the people you want to give it to. That's the appeal of donating to something long-established like the SA. They don't really care to expand.

Sylux
12-11-2011, 06:03 PM
Just because a group is anti-something doesn't mean they don't help people.

Inksprout
12-11-2011, 06:47 PM
Yeah but it's pretty hard to support an organisation that directly discriminates against something about you which is core to your identity.

Sylux
12-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Yeah but to boycott them or whatever is just useless propaganda. It's like okay either you're going to take the side of the gays or the guys who help impoverished people all over the world.

Inksprout
12-11-2011, 08:41 PM
I don't think its exactly like that, as Psy posted there are other charities you can give to that don't disciminate. I see your point and I don't believe we should all boycott it either but I can see why someone in Psy's position would feel the need to.

Celestial-Fox
12-11-2011, 08:53 PM
I see where Psy is coming from--however, in locations like Alaska, many people can't afford to shop in places other than Walmart. That, and there aren't many choices (for instance, all our K-Marts shut down about a decade ago, etc.). But obviously, splurges like Dominoes can go out the window, as Cype said.

ClockHand
12-11-2011, 08:58 PM
I see where Psy is coming from--however, in locations like Alaska, many people can't afford to shop in places other than Walmart. That, and there aren't many choices (for instance, all our K-Marts shut down about a decade ago, etc.). But obviously, splurges like Dominoes can go out the window, as Cype said.

I bet they shut down cuz of Walmart.

Celestial-Fox
12-11-2011, 09:03 PM
Most likely. Local businesses are being burned alive by Walmart, too.

ClockHand
12-11-2011, 09:06 PM
It's the power of Walmart, you can't compete against him; he destroy and burn everything that tries it.

Edit: related to the thread:

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/976000_460s.jpg

D=

Kodos
12-12-2011, 02:54 AM
Yeah, don't boycott the Salvation Army. It's not like there are other organizations which do good work and help the poor and needy, and have the benefit of not being bigoted organizations that dehumanize entire groups of people for insane religious reasons. If only the world had other charitable organizations!

But it does not.

Sylux
12-12-2011, 08:58 AM
Yeah, don't boycott the Salvation Army. It's not like there are other organizations which do good work and help the poor and needy, and have the benefit of not being bigoted organizations that dehumanize entire groups of people for insane religious reasons. If only the world had other charitable organizations!

But it does not.
:\

Psy
01-18-2012, 10:03 PM
A new report highlights the shocking level of poverty endured by LGBT people — and their children.
By Neal Broverman

The economy may slowly be getting its groove back, but many LGBT people will miss that rising tide. A recent report from the Half in Ten program — a campaign by the Center for American Progress and like-minded groups that aims to reduce poverty by half in 10 years — indicates that LGBT people, especially lesbians and transgender people, endure vast income inequality compared to their heterosexual peers.

"Lesbian couples tend to have much higher poverty rates than either heterosexual or male couples," according to the report, titled "Restoring Shared Prosperity: Strategies to Cut Poverty and Expand Economic Growth." "[Older] lesbian couples...are twice as likely as straight married couples to live in poverty."

The numbers, culled from the Williams Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles, indicated that up to 64&#37; of transgender people make less than $25,000 a year. Also disturbing was the finding that children of gay couples are twice as likely to be poor as offspring of straight, married couples.

One of the solutions to this disparity is marriage equality, says Melissa Boteach, manager of Half in Ten.
"A married heterosexual couple with $45,000 in income filing their taxes jointly would get a $50 refund from the federal government," Boteach says. "A same-sex couple has to file separately and they would owe $2,165 in taxes."

Lesbian couples are especially hard-hit as women continue to make less than men — 78 cents to every dollar, according to Boteach. That difference is felt keenly in families where two women are raising children.

Half in Ten is calling for the passage of President Obama's American Jobs Act, which includes paid sick days for working parents.

"There are ways in which LGBT families have different needs, but there are certainly ways that they have the same needs as all Americans — good jobs and good wages," Boteach says.


More reasons to go for gay marriage LESS STRUGGLE!

Slurpee
01-19-2012, 05:08 PM
Seeing that 64&#37; of transgendered people live in poverty really scared me. Now I really am afraid I will be able to get a job at all.

Psy
01-19-2012, 05:28 PM
People will take this info and turn it into "it doesn't pay to be gay" when really life's being made harder for lgbtq people. It isint asking for special treatment when other committed couples are automatically given things like tax breaks its asking for equal rights. I feel I had to say that because there are still people who don't understand that.

Imagine how many people would be better off financially and be in better health if gays and lesbians were allowed to marry their same sex partners?

Slurpee
01-20-2012, 03:49 PM
I saw on the news that gay men in states with gay marriage were actually healthier

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 11:50 AM
Give LGBTQ equal opportunity, and women equal wages and this wouldn't even be a problem.

Though, according to my girlfriend's experience working in designer clothes/make-up retail, those types of stores are very partial to gay men when hiring. ._.

Psy
01-22-2012, 03:37 PM
There is imo a high density of gay men in fashion and make up. I would try to say perhaps its something genetic inherited by all gay men to want to go into such industrys but I hate that it's a continued stereotype that all gay men are fashionable or some kind of fashion idiot savants because we aren't. Yes you see allot of gay men in that type of store but I think its to get women shoppers to buy more because dispite just knowing they like men any woman loves to hear a man tell her she looks great in those shoes or that is her color etc. Other ones are if he's an artist or theater actor he's gay. Not true!

Delphinus
01-22-2012, 05:30 PM
Though the Performing Arts section of my college (where I love to hang out) seems to be where all the gay guys are. Seriously, in the last 3 months I've hung out there I've seen more gay guys in college than the 2 years before.

EDIT: Mind you the majority of male PA students at my college tend to be (a) "god's gift to women" or (b) gay

EDIT2: What I'm saying is there's probably some truth to the actor thing

ClockHand
01-22-2012, 06:08 PM
I think its because the fashion world, or better said, all the "artistic" world have been more comprehensive with homosexuality than other "work environment". And the deal with the stereotype in fashion, is just because fashion is shown more into the public eye than any other "artistic media".