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apples13
04-21-2013, 08:44 PM
for a website about manga why does no one draw manga?
as a matter of fact most people don't even draw in the osamu anime style.

Hayashida
04-21-2013, 08:56 PM
huh have you even looked at the manga and anime works section? And yeah, usually you draw in your own style, don't you?

GunZet
04-21-2013, 09:47 PM
All the people that used to draw manga-styled either

A) Still draw manga-style
B) Left it for another style (myself included)
or
C) Just don't come to the site anymore (like Foust)

Plus MT started to be more of a generalist site years ago. The name doesn't necessarily reflect the prime focus anymore.

jubeh
04-21-2013, 10:04 PM
I'm actually a total osamu/araki ripoff I just dont post up art very much

apples13
04-22-2013, 01:53 AM
I'm actually a total osamu/araki ripoff I just dont post up art very much

you should post it


All the people that used to draw manga-styled either

A) Still draw manga-style
B) Left it for another style (myself included)
or
C) Just don't come to the site anymore (like Foust)

Plus MT started to be more of a generalist site years ago. The name doesn't necessarily reflect the prime focus anymore.

Thats really unfortunate :(


huh have you even looked at the manga and anime works section? And yeah, usually you draw in your own style, don't you?

I check it from time to time, more often then not it is more writing then actually discussion on how to draw it.

Aether
04-22-2013, 04:51 AM
you should post itWhat.


Thats really unfortunate :(How is it unfortunate that people have found their own styles.


I check it from time to time, more often then not it is more writing then actually discussion on how to draw it.Are you daft.

You do realise that the site itself has a lot of manga tutorials. Funnily enough, forums don't have to 100% reflect what the site is about. Think of the site as a sign to people; it says that there are like-minded people here.

JJJorgie
04-22-2013, 08:08 AM
Apple, have you seen all the new people that come here and post in the critique corner?

Regantor
04-22-2013, 09:17 AM
THOSE WHO POST NON-MANGA ARTWORK HAVE MARKED THEMSELVES FOR DEATH IN THE NEW WORLD ORDER *^*

Japes aside, I think "Have you seen all the new people that come here and just post in the critique corner?" would be pretty accurate about the situation here. Unlike the artwork section, people can generally just post their ideas and run away again with no penalty. Which is why the comics section is like it is.

But yeah.

There are plenty of people who come here and have either posted loads of webcomics (that have since been buried by other posts), or are working on something, but they want to actually have something to show for it in order to be taken seriously.

Demonfyre
04-22-2013, 12:30 PM
'Manga' as a style varies a fair bit from realistic to absurdly deformed. For that reason I prefer to think of 'manga' as a style of comic or a sequential story rather than a style of art as such. Just how I choose to see it. I also like to use it as a grouping of similar styles of art rather than any given strict 'style'.

Apart from that I agree with JJ, Aether and GunZ.


There are plenty of people who come here and have either posted loads of webcomics (that have since been buried by other posts), or are working on something, but they want to actually have something to show for it in order to be taken seriously.

^ This

Sylux
04-22-2013, 05:06 PM
A "manga" is just a fucking comic book that you read backwards end of story.

Matt
04-22-2013, 10:52 PM
We've gone over the semantics of "manga" before on MT. It's just the Japanese word for "comic" but often refers to the fairly distinctive, if broadly-defined, style of art--and even that isn't a solid definition (see: Avatar: The Last Airbender is/is not an anime debates).

The manga/anime section sees its share of content--just not as frequently as the general discussion topics. Ram had a full 50-page chapter up at one point, which I proofread, but he sort of disappeared afterward. Sutari wrote a couple chapters of Claymaker, Gunzet did Triple-Flip, Evil Cake did Louise, Reg did one that I can't remember the title of at the moment, Sho recently did a series of short comics, and way back, I remember a thing called Solana that I was pretty interested in. I also tried my hand at a manga a couple times, but got frustrated at my lack of artistic skill both times and stopped two or three pages in.

Linz
04-23-2013, 05:28 AM
Most of the older members here joined with a starter style of manga/anime/desuderp. As time has gone on, we've all evolved and became interested in other styles, our influences and interests have mushed together to create our own style. Some of the manga influences can still be seen in some of our art, but at the end of the day most of us have stayed because it's a community. As for the newer members, as people have said before me, they do have the manga style. Probably because they've been looking at -gasp- the ~MANGA TUTORIALS~. The site is FULL TO THE BRIM of tutorials, just because a lot of us don't draw manga, doesn't mean we're not interested in it. Each and every one of us are entitled to draw what we like as long as it fits the forums rules. Even when I joined, which was back in '05, around 60-70&#37; of artists didn't draw in the cliche 'Manga' style. My advice to you, Apples? If ya don't like it then you don't need to look. <:

~but I also respect your right to discuss this 'issue'~

apples13
04-23-2013, 01:09 PM
no one ever said people on this site "only" need to draw in osamu influenced style with the big round eyes and the stereo typical anime look, but don't you find it funny that the vast majority draws in a way that would not be categorized as manga/anime style on a site called "manga tutorials"?

also for the argument that manga are "just" comics backwards is a load of crap. Anyone can tell that there are very distinctive features in a manga that comics( refering to western comics) don't have.

Regantor
04-23-2013, 01:22 PM
Whilst I agree that there are stylistic differences beyond it simply being in reverse, what about Japanese authors who do not follow the stylistic norms?

Nihei is a prime example.

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/95/3c83e08e3ec542f5a5cfa542c18af622/l.jpg

Does his work not count as "manga", because he ignores Osamu influences?

Not trying to shoot you down. Just saying it's a very vague word that doesn't really refer to one style, is all. Even in Japan itself.

You could probably discount people who totally utilize Marvel, Dc, Disney or even Warner Brothers (ala the batman cartoons) stylization as not being very "manga", but they are still a massive rarity here...

And personally, I would not want some person telling me what my style is and isn't supposed to look like anyway. The reason why alot of us got into manga in the first place is because it offers a wider range of experiences than just the western fanbase alone.

Thus, after taking in influences from the world as a whole, people with styles neither here nor there are bound to emerge.

As they should. That's inspiration, creativity and artistic freedom in a nutshell. :3

apples13
04-23-2013, 01:37 PM
the part about manga is beyond just a reversed comic is another argument unrelated to the first.
Of course styles that ignore osamu influences can still be counted as manga.

my first statement just refers to the fact that for being a manga tutorial website, it is unfortunate that the members don't have a more manga/anime influenced style. mind as well call it drawing tutorials or comic tutorials.

Aether
04-23-2013, 02:00 PM
You do realise that the typical manga style was completely derived from Disney cartoons right?

Also, like I said before; there are many tutorials on the site. The forums, however, don't have to 100&#37; reflect this.

Regantor
04-23-2013, 02:04 PM
the part about manga is beyond just a reversed comic is another argument unrelated to the first.
Of course styles that ignore osamu influences can still be counted as manga.

my first statement just refers to the fact that for being a manga tutorial website, it is unfortunate that the members don't have a more manga/anime influenced style. mind as well call it drawing tutorials or comic tutorials.

It's more sort of half way inbetween, is what I was trying to say to you...

The fanbase for western comics is it's own specific entity. You won't find many super-hero inspired comics here at all.

So the distinction is important, even if the exact word that people ended up using is technically wrong or overly ambiguous.

apples13
04-23-2013, 02:07 PM
You do realise that the typical manga style was completely derived from Disney cartoons right?

but we don't see much of that either

Regantor
04-23-2013, 02:12 PM
Disney-influenced drawings tend to end up on Disney-influenced forums.

Perhaps it's best that I just summarize my argument as "Manga-influenced tutorials isn't as catchy."

apples13
04-23-2013, 02:15 PM
Disney-influenced drawings tend to end up on Disney-influenced forums.

Perhaps it's best that I just summarize my argument as "Manga-influenced tutorials isn't as catchy."

THIS makes me sad

Aether
04-23-2013, 02:16 PM
but we don't see much of that either

You can't have this argument two ways. It's either plenty of art, but not enough manga; or just plain not enough art at all.

You've been arguing that there's plenty of art, but not enough manga.

I just don't see how you can't realise that websites don't have to be 100&#37; devoted to whatever they're advertising. It's not a porn site.
All of us have discovered this site through a common goal, wanting to draw a particular art style better. We have grown to like the community and decided to stay to post on the forums. Our art styles have evolved over the years to something that suits us better. That's it.

If there's not enough of what you're looking for, you don't have to be here. We're not here to cater to your needs specifically. We're here on our own agenda.

EDIT: I'm actually being as nice as I can be as well. Just thought I should let you all know.

apples13
04-23-2013, 02:43 PM
You can't have this argument two ways. It's either plenty of art, but not enough manga; or just plain not enough art at all.

You've been arguing that there's plenty of art, but not enough manga.

I just don't see how you can't realise that websites don't have to be 100% devoted to whatever they're advertising. It's not a porn site.
All of us have discovered this site through a common goal, wanting to draw a particular art style better. We have grown to like the community and decided to stay to post on the forums. Our art styles have evolved over the years to something that suits us better. That's it.

If there's not enough of what you're looking for, you don't have to be here. We're not here to cater to your needs specifically. We're here on our own agenda.

EDIT: I'm actually being as nice as I can be as well. Just thought I should let you all know.

I understand well and clear, I just didn't want to reply to you.
All I did was bring up my opinion on this topic so calm down.
It's is almost like if I have an opinion that is contradictory to yours , you immediately lash out.

Sylux
04-23-2013, 04:36 PM
We should change the site name to Manga/Manhwa Tutorials.

Aether
04-23-2013, 09:05 PM
I understand well and clear, I just didn't want to reply to you.
All I did was bring up my opinion on this topic so calm down.
It's is almost like if I have an opinion that is contradictory to yours , you immediately lash out.
I'm quite calm and I'm not lashing out. I'm just trying to explain to you the situation. >_>

Sylux
04-23-2013, 09:38 PM
Apples, I think you just need to take a time out for a day or two. Your arguments aren't holding up very well.

Linz
04-24-2013, 05:16 AM
Agreed.
Also wtf guys a lot of my drawings have Disney influences. D:

Sylux
04-24-2013, 09:50 AM
I think my art style shows some serious Kamaro/Obata influence, mixed with Skyward Sword/Wind Waker touches.

Aether
04-24-2013, 10:13 AM
My art style is kind of like someone with cerebral palsy trying to draw a picture with a pen in their mouth.

TheVermillionFox
04-24-2013, 05:26 PM
My art style is manga-ish ._. I think. Don't I count? D:

ScarletHue
04-24-2013, 06:59 PM
I don't know how it's been for others on this forum but when I first got here about 6 years ago, I drew manga. I really wanted to learn to draw manga and after searching how to draw manga or something on google, I found this site. It's been a long time since then though, and my art style has changed dramatically. But I like the community here. I know a few people here and there, there are discussions on topics I have things to say on and want to hear others say on, and I can get feedback on my work.

A lot of people come here at first drawing manga, but everyones style changed. Then those people stick around. Or they show up after being gone for an entire year and have the nerve to comment on the nature of the forums..like me xD

Regantor
04-24-2013, 09:19 PM
Hold on. Doesn't this mean that Astro Boy is not manga? Since most of it was made before the official manga style even existed?

This entire argument makes no sense. Not picking a bone with Apples still, I mean in a more general sense. This argument really has come up way too many times.

Art is constantly evolving. The modern 'moe' style of manga and anime looks almost nothing like alot of work from the eighties.

My point is, Manga is a really, really vague word.

So if your art is vaguely Manga inspired, then...

Well, you're good. :/

Art is supposed to evolve. You are supposed to use your own style, not just unthinkingly ape somebody else's.

So having somebody tell you what is and isn't allowed doesn't really serve a purpose at all.

Rio
04-25-2013, 11:12 AM
You know, this reminds me of an artist interview I read awhile back in a magazine. Her style, to me, clearly looked like manga-style but you know what she classed her art as? "Low-brow street art". No mention of manga or anime at all.* I think it all depends on how the artist see themselves, their art, and how they would like to define it. At the end of the day, whatever the artist wants to define their art - fine. I'm down with that. I'll still think of their work as either falling in one style or another though with my own set of criteria.

Btw, here's some of her work. Camilla D'Errico:


http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/167/a/f/Birdnest_by_camilladerrico.jpg

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/166/7/0/The_Heart_by_camilladerrico.jpg

* Though her DA says she grew up with cartoons, comics, and manga.

---

Anyways, I think I feel your frustration apples though for my part, I'm more personally interested in just getting people to sign up and contribute rather than having people post mainly manga-style art work. My thought is that if you can get an increase of members, then generally, postings of art specifically what this site is aiming for will follow. New members interested in this art style => more postings and questions about manga => more manga art.

With that said, I am not opposed to people posting other styles of art. Manga does range in style from realistic to super deformed and cartoony after all. If folks who've come here still maintain at least some of their manga-style roots, I'd be happy to at least been a factor during that artist's "period" of art.