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Regantor
02-05-2013, 05:18 PM
Seems kinda like a gimboid subject, and I don't mean to come across as ultra fired up or anything, but ever since I seen this perticular video from Stephen Silver (the character designer for kim possible and such things), I've been thinking alot about how crappy it really is being asked to work for free, as an artist...

I mean, all I've really done for commisions are some snarky websites and band posters and stuff, but could you imagine asking a musician to do that for you? "Hey dude I don't know, you like playing the guitar, right? Well play me this song to go in my video! You'll get some nice *exposure*!"

The video I was talking about;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oWXYoD7wfOs

Have any of you guys ever been talked to like this before? Has anyone had any positive stories of gaining some glorious exposure? 'Cause I'm really starting to think this is kind of a nasty way to treat a buisness that is stereotypically starving and generally quite humble in character...

jubeh
02-05-2013, 05:25 PM
When I was in school for audio only the guys that sucked worked for free. Exposure is not currency and, in my opinion, a poor investment most of the time.

GunZet
02-05-2013, 05:51 PM
I've done 'royalty' work and a little free work just cause I wanted to.

I seek out good royalty work, which is the promise of pay if the project ever sees the light of day.
Most of the time they're pretty legit teams, and they can't use your work for any sort of personal gain without your consent which is fine to me.
So when I put in work with these teams, it's not because they ask me, but because I choose to join, and feel I'm getting at least a bit of experience in the field I'm looking forward to going into, and to say it's gone to waste in the past few years would be a lie.

In short, this is how I see things.
Working for free where someone gets to keep your work and has rights to it just for a little exposure is usually bs.
Working for the 'promise' (for lack of better word) of pay, keeping the rights to your work, and gaining useful experience out of it all is good.
Working with a group of other people who also are doing the work for free just because they love what they do can also turn out well sometimes.

ClockHand
02-05-2013, 07:25 PM
Never work for free. You are just de-valuating your self and your product.

Regantor
02-05-2013, 07:58 PM
I guess it's pretty unanimous, then. But still a pretty good message to spread to the unexperienced.

Reg also feels like a complete dicknerd for ever feeling pressurized in the first place, but hey, that's how you learn. >_>

Celestial-Fox
02-05-2013, 09:05 PM
I almost never work for free. I have a real job that will pay me real money that gives me graphic design and illustration options if I want them. I don't need some punk "friend" trying to guilt-trip me into something that's nothing short of exploitation.

Matt
02-06-2013, 09:09 AM
I'll pay you for that Naomi drawing, Seefy.

I have little experience in paid jobs, but I have enough to share tips. First, if you're doing a big job for decently high pay, always background-check your employer. If you can't find any background information and the dude's username is xXmoneylessXx or something of the like and you can't even find his name or anything, proceed with caution. If you're working for an organization, like a college, you're probably safe (look for the .edu).

Second, give yourself more time than you think you'll need, because you will frequently run into problems, e.g. crashes, rage-quitting and having to restart, the entire piece being more complex than you think, etc.

Third, if you're having trouble getting started, grab your references and turn off your Internet. Remember when I was posting art frequently and improving all the time? That was back when I could only get online from school.

Rio
02-06-2013, 12:31 PM
I don't know what's going on in your life but for me it all boils down to this: Don't work for free unless you have the time to do it.* If you don't have the time to do it, then make sure you get paid. If you're getting paid, lay out the base price and the revision price for each modification thereafter.

* Yeah, I agree with the guilt-trip thing. Don't get bullied into feeling bad because in the end, if you can't keep your end of the bargain, the other party will tear you down regardless and make you feel even worse. It's a no-win situation so don't play ball unless you have time and as Gunz said, you're personally interested in doing it. :|

Black_Shaggie
02-07-2013, 05:09 PM
That's the truth if I ever heard it. Also...this is a given...don't sign contracts where you only get paid after you produce something. If a client wants you to do work for them, then they should be able to give you something for your time. Made that mistake...& I eventually after falling into the guilt trip/ revision trap, I had to flat out demand compensation. If your client keeps asking for revisions & there's no base price set for doing them then they'll keep asking for revisions. That's worth YOUR time & money.

Alternatively, work on free projects to expand your skills. BUt only do them with folks who contribute to the project. At least, that's what I think.

Celestial-Fox
02-08-2013, 11:57 AM
Step-by-step payment plans are nice, because if something falls through, at least you were paid proportionally to the work accomplished so far.

Matt: No, no, don't worry about that. I come back to it every now and again and start over. I think it's now a personal fixation of mine because I just want to make it really nice for you, and you're not demanding or anything. I like doing things for friends, but when they get funky about it I don't want to do it anymore. you're definitely not funky. XD

Sylux
02-11-2013, 08:45 AM
I work for myself so I work for free.

Aether
04-26-2013, 10:59 AM
I think the main problem with it is because artists are just trying so desperately to get a job in what they're passionate about they sort of blur the lines between work and leisure. To get asked by a big company to do a picture is a big thing for some people, especially when those people are just like "hey this could be my lucky break, I love doing it anyway". Companies prey on this sort of thought process and just take advantage. But to be quite fair, don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of.

Personally, I never do anything for anyone unless I'm getting paid for it. Of course, if a friend asks a favour I will do whatever they need; but outside of friends and family, fucking good luck getting me to do anything.

GunZet
04-26-2013, 11:53 AM
I've learned by my professors over the years that friends and family are the worst culprits for taking advantage of you, and I've found this to be true in almost all cases besides my mom and nana.

Aether
05-01-2013, 12:40 AM
I've learned by my professors over the years that friends and family are the worst culprits for taking advantage of you, and I've found this to be true in almost all cases besides my mom and nana.None of my friends or family take advantage of me.

GunZet
05-01-2013, 01:05 AM
Lucky man.

Sylux
05-01-2013, 11:01 AM
No, they just know who's boss.

theAnimeRebel
05-02-2013, 12:05 PM
^^^ That's right.

I work for free because I suck and want experience/practice.

There is the naked truth. I'm not at the level yet where anyone would actually PAY me to do anything, unfortunatly. Of course, then I see blokes who are worse than I am get paid for stuff... maybe I should stop doing that. (Point is, I don't think I deserve to be paid for half the stuff I do. It just isn't my best.)

jubeh
05-02-2013, 01:25 PM
I work for free because I suck and want experience/practice.

There is the naked truth. I'm not at the level yet where anyone would actually PAY me to do anything, unfortunatly. Of course, then I see blokes who are worse than I am get paid for stuff... maybe I should stop doing that. (Point is, I don't think I deserve to be paid for half the stuff I do. It just isn't my best.)

I couldn't think of a really polite way to say this but it might be time to stop just thinking about yourself and consider how it effects every other artist when you choose to work for free. You might think that one person changing may not make a difference but it has to start somewhere. If you really want experience there are ways to earn it without being taken advantage of.

Sylux
05-02-2013, 05:20 PM
People work for me. Not the other way around.

Rio
05-03-2013, 02:33 PM
@ AnimeRebel

What you think isn't good may be great in someone else's eyes. If they think it's worth paying for, then don't fight them! I think your problem is just accepting the fact that your art is good enough for these people. Stop being so harsh on yourself.

theAnimeRebel
05-04-2013, 06:39 PM
I would just feel bad if someone were to pay me for crap.

I didn't think about how that might affect other artists though. Sobering point Jubeh