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View Full Version : You Guys Should Totally Critique Adam's Work, Since You All Rock at Art



Sanc7us
10-18-2012, 04:24 AM
Hey.

I've been lurking for a bit, seen a few threads, and decided (not counting the introduction thread) to get involved.

First off, and this is more of another small semi-introduction than anything, what I want to get most out of this isn't insane-level good. I've checked out the 'Let's Exercise!' thread and more than once I felt like simultaneously crying and breaking my tablet when I compared myself to what those guys had done. I want, mainly, just to be able to look at my own work and say "Yes. I am happy with this." Considering my personal standards are quite low, this won't be exceedingly difficult.

I guess, on a more technical level, what I'm aiming to improve on (and this is a very narrow selection) is folds, shading, anatomy (as always) and a little bit of perspective. So pretty much the most difficult and hardest-to-master parts.

Now, onto the actual art. In chronological order up until now, we have...

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/Untitled-1.jpg
The first thing I ever drew with my new graphics tablet. Considering I had used a graphics tablet for a total of about three hours before this, it was...different.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/Untitled-3.jpg
Before I learnt how to turn off the pen pressure, this was my second thing.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/Untitled-4.jpg
I got hell bored at TAFE one day, so I knocked this out with a mouse.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/Untitled-6.jpg
Tablet again. Not...TOO unhappy with it, I guess. Could be worse.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/Untitled-7.jpg
I'm actually pretty happy with this one, which is weird considering it's still nothing next to most other ones I've seen on here. Still, it's the first one I bothered to put a lot of time and effort into, what with the background and all.

And that's all I've done to now. I hope you guys can pick apart my pictures - I actually really want to see what I can improve on. I know it's a long road, but I'm glad I found this site with people like all of you help me.

Until next time,

-- <3 Ad

BunnyVoid
10-18-2012, 06:03 AM
wow awesome title. I'm glad you joined us.

For a first time user of a pen tablet, I say you're pretty good.
Also you seem to already have the whole picture in your head, even complete with details and backgrounds.
I like all your attempts in coloring.

For you, I think the best way to start is get a good grip of your medium. Maybe practice a lot of quick sketches of faces, poses, etc (just anything really) to release the tension in your lines. Its still a bit fuzzy, which (imo) indicates restricted strokes. Do you make multiple strokes instead of a single solid one when making a line? If yes, you may also want to try incorporating a larger movement with your wrist and possibly the rest of your arm... i really can't explain it but i hope you get the picture.

that's all for now. I will critique your art in depth when i see some sketches.
Its nice having you around. You're quite an interesting fella.

Demonfyre
10-18-2012, 06:22 AM
I would say your biggest problem is the proportions. For example on the last picture and arm is much thicker and much longer than the other, when biological symmetry would mean they should be close to identical and even when foreshortening is present, you should still get this feel that they are the same. Also your legs in the picture were also a bit short. So I suggest using the following link;

http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/Loomis&#37;20Figure%20Draw.pdf

Reading up about anatomy and figure drawing should help you get all of that nailed down, and also here is a head height chart to help you with your proportions;

http://www.visualstorytelling.com/images/Chapter%206/figure6.22-loomis26.jpg
http://morezmore.com/galleries/XmasShopper/lg_100_3426.jpg

If you are going for a manga style I suggest the 6-7 head models, and also use references

Sanc7us
10-18-2012, 06:57 AM
wow awesome title. I'm glad you joined us.

For a first time user of a pen tablet, I say you're pretty good.
Also you seem to already have the whole picture in your head, even complete with details and backgrounds.
I like all your attempts in coloring.

For you, I think the best way to start is get a good grip of your medium. Maybe practice a lot of quick sketches of faces, poses, etc (just anything really) to release the tension in your lines. Its still a bit fuzzy, which (imo) indicates restricted strokes. Do you make multiple strokes instead of a single solid one when making a line? If yes, you may also want to try incorporating a larger movement with your wrist and possibly the rest of your arm... i really can't explain it but i hope you get the picture.

that's all for now. I will critique your art in depth when i see some sketches.
Its nice having you around. You're quite an interesting fella.

D'awh! Thanks, you! I've been on-and-off drawing for a while (usually just in the back of books in school), but too be fair, I've never really followed up or made any true attempt! I'll do the sketching thing, as you suggested - I did a page in PS of sketches of hands, but they made me want to stab myself due to how horrible they were. Stupid hands.

As for the line thing...I don't know really. I think I swap between the two unconsciously. I'll take note next time and get back to you.

Thanks heaps. I shall do said sketches and return to submit myself for your judgement.


I would say your biggest problem is the proportions. --- ...here is a head height chart to help you with your proportions;
Yeah. I suck at proportions. I think I attempt to do foreshortening, and then just WAY overshoot what it's meant to look like. That left leg (right on our side), I think I redid about fifteen or so times because I could never get it just right. Yeah, I sometimes use a head scale thing (draw one head, copy it 7 or 8 times and line them up), but for the final picture it didn't even cross my mind. I sort of just winged it. But I'll do that reading that you suggested!

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU.

Demonfyre
10-18-2012, 07:08 AM
You're welcome, also I would like to put particular emphasis on the use of references and the use of gestures. Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think you have been using any references for the poses, I would highly suggest this too you as you cannot draw something if you haven't first looked on it and studied it so as to get it right, if that makes any sense. Here is some more links for you, so you can get references to practice from;

http://www.posemaniacs.com/ (For innocent eyes)
http://lovecastle.org/draw/ (NSFW, nude models, etc)

Also here is some stuff on gestures, which will make your poses and flow etc;

http://www.4shared.com/office/EN9BK48_/The_Vilppu_Drawing_Manual.html

Sanc7us
10-18-2012, 07:12 AM
You're welcome, also I would like to put particular emphasis on the use of references and the use of gestures. Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think you have been using any references for the poses, I would highly suggest this too you as you cannot draw something if you haven't first looked on it and studied it so as to get it right, if that makes any sense. Here is some more links for you, so you can get references to practice from;

http://www.posemaniacs.com/ (For innocent eyes)
http://lovecastle.org/draw/ (NSFW, nude models, etc)

Also here is some stuff on gestures, which will make your poses and flow etc;

http://www.4shared.com/office/EN9BK48_/The_Vilppu_Drawing_Manual.html

Thanks man! You're right - I wasn't really using references at all. I drew from what I thought 'looked right' and went from there. For the hands, I looked at my own, for the leg up in the last one, I brought my leg up and guessed, that sort of amateur thing. I'll take a looksee through those links though. Thanks again.

Demonfyre
10-18-2012, 07:21 AM
That wasn't amateur-ish, you can also use yourself as a reference, you are a viable human being after all aren't you? :P and yeah those two books are very useful, you will learn a lot from them ^_^ hope it helps

JJJorgie
10-18-2012, 07:41 AM
I commend you for your bravery in taking on that background. Along with what these guys are saying, you should really study perspective. None of your buildings really have the same perspective.

This is a perspective tutorial and guide that I love:
http://fox-orian.deviantart.com/gallery/9162487#/d1yamid

Also, practice long straight lines. I know they're hard with a tablet pen at first, but just keep at it :)

Sanc7us
10-18-2012, 07:49 AM
You guys are all brilliant, you know that?

Also, and this is aimed back at BunnyVoid, mostly, but how much detail should I be putting into my 'sketches'? Bare bones, just so you can check proportion and arrangement? Basic shapes around that (even though I know nothing of anatomy and/or the muscular and skeletal systems)? Just a clarification would be nice.

Demonfyre, I'll take a geez through, but really, my attention span is NOT at artist level, or even artist STUDENT level. I looked at the book and the first thing I thought was 'Christ. That's a lot of words'. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE reading, but...I dunno. I can't help but feel I'll get bored of them really fast. And probably because I'll try and draw what it says in the book, get it wrong, and rage-quit.

JJJorgie, you are a wonderful person and you should feel good about yourself. Thanks for the feedback, and yeah, the backdrop was actually drawn on a whim. I had never planned for a background at all, and just sort of made it up as I went along. And yes. Straight lines with a tablet are dicks.

BunnyVoid
10-18-2012, 08:04 AM
hmm on sketches, try to form the shapes and volume of the person first. then add details until you're quite content. I usually put emphasis on face and the focus of the piece, maybe less for the background and props... I usually time myself to sketch 3 - 5 minutes. Beyond that I stop and look what I do. But i recommend that you time your sketches around 10 to 15 minutes since you're starting out. Then leave it for a while and come back to it after an hour of so of not looking. See if you can tweak a little more of this and that (anatomy, composition, pose, expression, clothing folds, details). While you leave the drawing, you can draw another piece of sketch for 10 to 15 minutes and leave it. Anyway that's how I usually do stuff. Its quick and fun because I have very short attention span like you. lol.

Oh and also, try to read through the things demonfyre and jjjorgie gave between intervals of drawing but don't look at the drawing too much cause familiarity distorts our way of "seeing" things. Come back to the drawing and apply what you have read. You learn your mistakes fast when you do that.

you're pretty good. i like the enthusiasm.
Being on and off drawing is also my problem. It ruins the style. Maybe try drawing everyday. Buy a sketchpad you bring around and draw every break time.

Rubisko
10-18-2012, 08:31 AM
I've checked out the 'Let's Exercise!' thread and more than once I felt like simultaneously crying and breaking my tablet when I compared myself to what those guys had done.

Don't worry, we all feel that way. The cool thing about being part of a community like this is that there are always fellow artists we can admire and envy, that way we find the motivation to push ourselves farther than we would have been able to do on our own.

Working digital in itself doesn't help you create better artwork, though if you learn it you'll eventually be able to create stuff faster than you would be able to if you stick to traditional. The general principles are the same though, and I encourage you to continue traditional drawing. I was actually talking to a friend about this just yesterday, and I encouraged him to draw more and to draw with a pen instead of a pencil. The pen has the great advantage of not being easy to erase, which will force you to draw with your mind instead of just with your hands.

If you want to learn digital you should check out the blog www.ctrlpaint.com

Sanc7us
10-18-2012, 08:53 AM
...draw more and to draw with a pen instead of a pencil. The pen has the great advantage of not being easy to erase, which will force you to draw with your mind instead of just with your hands.

If you want to learn digital you should check out the blog www.ctrlpaint.com

I'll do more regular drawing! I've actually been thinking about it during the last, ooh, hour or so, honestly. I have a sketchbook in my bag - the only thing stopping me is that it's 11pm where I am now, and the maximum amount of energy I can exert is being completely spent on switching between tabs in Waterfox.

However, went on Ctrl+Paint and checked out the intro video. Wow. I like this guy already. Thanks heaps for showing me this, man!

toast
10-18-2012, 05:40 PM
I think what you really need to do right now is go back to the basics. Try to understand form, shading, lines, basic art elements, use of color, etc.

One of the best books for beginners is Fun with a Pencil by Andrew Loomis. You may find the style a little outdated, but it's extremely helpful and really teaches you extremely valuable advice. When you read this book, you MUST draw alongside and jot notes and you must actually pay attention to what you're reading. That means flipping through the book/pdf file then trying to remember shit later will not help you.

http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/Andrew&#37;20Loomis%20-%20Fun%20WIth%20a%20Pencil.pdf

look through the links in this for more help with the basics:

https://sites.google.com/site/4chanic/training-tutorials


stop relying so much on fan art as well, come up with your own character concepts.

ClockHand
10-19-2012, 01:21 AM
[QUOTE=Sanc7us;114081]I've checked out the 'Let's Exercise!' thread and more than once I felt like simultaneously crying and breaking my tablet when I compared myself to what those guys had done./QUOTE]

Don't compare to others, compare only to yourself. You must remember that people have different skills, talents, views, styles and time practicing.

And follow most people indications, if I say anything here it would be repeating the same as most people have said.

Sanc7us
10-21-2012, 12:43 AM
Woo, pen-and-paper sketches. Kind of. The first two I did at TAFE back in first semester, because drawing somehow factors into computers, coding and web design. I took photos of these since a) I had good light and b) it looks better from the photo than it does when I scan it.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials&#37;20Art%20Album/WP_000491.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/WP_000492.jpg
I'm a lot happier with the second one. I think it's not too bad, I suppose.

As VoidBunny said, I did three random sketches timed at 15 minutes each (well, the third was 12 and a half). I did these at like 1am, in between talking to Seddy and Demonfyre on Groupboard.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/WP_000493.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/WP_000494.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/WP_000495.jpg

Next one is a quick thing from that linked book 'Alex Loomis - Fun with a Pencil'. Just the first thing it says to try out and go along with.
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/WP_000496.jpg

And two random things going from the DeviantArt Perspective Tutorial I was linked to earlier.
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/WP_000497.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials%20Art%20Album/WP_000498.jpg

That's all for now. Hmn.

BunnyVoid
10-21-2012, 05:49 AM
now this is good. At least we can now see how you work out your drawings.

- Good. You're exploring pose and gesture. You even tried shading. That's good. You're courageous enough to see what you can already do. It also helps us better analyze your way of making art and therefore can recommend certain knowledge.

- In this drawing it is evident you need to review proportions. It is best if you read on drawing human anatomy (search Loomis, imo he's easiest to understand when beginning to draw). I don't recommend copying from stylized tutorials. It is more appropriate to study the ideal human form.

- Another major issue would be your strokes. I think i have mentioned this before. Try making long lines with a single stroke. Use your wrists and even your arms to draw. It would be good practice. Do only this for 15 minutes. Then try making huge curves with a single stroke. Do only this for 15 minutes. Then try making circles with a single stroke. Don't make it perfect, the important thing is that you only use a single stroke.

- Next would be correcting pose. When you make a pose that has a bit of foreshortening (kneeling, running, kicking towards the camera. just something with a camera angle) Try to define the horizon (eye level) and the ground plane (where he is standing on) so you know the angle which the camera looks into. This can be better visualized with 3d CLICK BELOW :3

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/295/0/5/ground_plane_by_bunnyvoid-d5ikk1a.png(you don't have to mess with sketchup. I'm just trying to explain. LOL)
-In short, keep the principle of the relationship between the ground plane and horizon in mind when doing pose. This thing can be corrected easily since we can actually compute perspective drawings. As long as you remember the principle behind it, it can work.

- Next would be finding the balance in your poses. We all know that gravity is the one to blame why we stick to this ground plane i just talked about hehee... lol. In physics, especially in engineering, it is important to determine the center of gravity. I can go on and on about this topic but instead i will just show you a pic, since I'm lazy lol. CLICK BELOW :3
from http://www.elfwood.com/farp/figure/williamlibodyconstruction.html NOT MINE

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/295/8/5/not_mine_just_for_refs_by_bunnyvoid-d5ikl4t.png
- so keep this in mind as well. Its good that you posted quickies so that we truly know what to critique :3 I applaud you for that.

- Now unto details and composition. I'm also guilty of over detailing stuff here and there cause I enjoy it. Sometimes it becomes eclectic. Drawing loses focus and looks unbalanced. The first drawing you made have good focus. The quick sketches also have good focus. The second drawing not so much because of the swords.

- When illustrating this type of scene try to use depth of field and camera angles to boost creativity of composition. To illustrate this imma show you one of my favorite scenes in Final Fantasy Advent children because it has a similar scene of showing multiple weapons on the floor at the same time. CLICK BELOW
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/295/8/b/not_mine_just_for_refs_by_bunnyvoid-d5iklzx.png
- this pic has almost all the elements that i've discussed now. Its a good example (well except for the lighting) in terms of pose balance, horizon groundplane relationship, depth of field and composition.

- i don't recommend trying the 3 point perspective YET. Try to understand the principle behind the 1 point perspective first.

that's all for now :3 You're going to get good when you draw more of those sketches while applying some drawing knowledge. Good job! post some more! I'll see them.

Rubisko
10-21-2012, 06:05 AM
Good too see that you have actually spent some time with Fun with a Pencil, I have the feeling that most people disregard it entirely after just looking at the cover. Learning to draw is not easy, and drawing the human body require much study of anatomy, and that is hard even if you already know how to draw. Fun with a pencil simplifies stuff so that it's possible to learn to draw in a fun way, making cartoon characters are pretty entertaining after all. So all I can say is stick to it, when you manage to draw funny little dudes that look 3d from imagination you can move on to study something else, like anatomy. That's pretty much what I did, but I didn't know of "Fun with a pencil" so I spent years doing small drawings in the margin of my school notes instead

The problem with your perspective drawings is that you place the vanishing points to close to each other. This is a bit hard to explain, but if you want to have every pair of lines that intersects between the vanishing points to form 90 degree angles then you must space the vanishing points so that two lines drawn from the stationary point to the vanishing points form a 90 degree angle to each other at the stationary point.
So yeah, I think this would be very hard to explain any other way than face to face. However, a crude rule of thumbs based on this could be that all angles in the picture plane that represent 90 degree angles must be greater than 90 degrees. But you know, I have a very mathematical approach to perspective, many people manage to pull this off with just the basic knowledge of the mechanics and a good deal of gut feeling. If it looks right then people will assume that it is right, even if you are a few degrees off here or there.

BunnyVoid
10-21-2012, 06:14 AM
i think i can help with explaining perspective.
This is how we can manually compute and draw almost accurate perspective... you don't have to do this but it can help you understand rubiskos' point.
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/295/9/5/not_mine_just_for_refs_by_bunnyvoid-d5iknur.png
rightclick, then open image in new window to see full view.

in architecture everything is scaled and etc. We try to project those scaled measurements on a angled ground plane to achieve a perspective. notice that the points are far off because it wants to stretch the horizon as far as possible to copy the way the horizon in real life. the horizon in real life stretches across our line of sight. our line of sight is 180 degrees.

sorry can't explain it but hope you get the point.

Sanc7us
10-23-2012, 05:06 AM
Replies and updates.

Thanks guys. Reading through the crits (and taking a squiz at BunnyVoid's pictures) helped a little, and I kinda understand a little of what you guys are talking about. I don't think I'll ever reach the levels you guys are at, but that's mostly due to me getting distracted by other things.

Anyway. Update. Kind of. After downloading some cool brushes for Photoshop, I found the Brush Preset button, as well as the '2B Pencil' preset. So I messed around with that for a little. This is the result.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Sanc7us/MangaTutorials&#37;20Art%20Album/PencilSketch.jpg

This is also with no sort of underlying sketches - no proportions, no skeletons, not mannequins, nothing. There are two layers, the white background and the pencil sketch. Dunno why I did that - I think it was because I was just messing about and it kind of slowly took form. Anyway, as always, crits and experience is welcome.

-- <3 Ad

BunnyVoid
10-24-2012, 01:28 PM
hi there! nice progress you got here. i see your lines are improving.
For now all i can say is that you should just keep on the sketches.
Digital artwork and brushes are nice but it is in traditional art that we can learn the most.

Hopefully see some more arts soon. Don't lose your enthusiasm.
I also have slight ADHD so I always lose focus. To counter it i always time my drawing time so it thrills me. If you can, try drawing everyday, at least about 20 minutes. It helps a lot.

whenrabbitsattack2.0
10-25-2012, 02:16 AM
hi there
looking over the thread i agree with wht everyone else has said mostly :) your'e progressing really well, and i like the badass-ness your drawings often seem to portray :) something else i wanted to suggest was getting a feel for the way the human body flows. whenever you can, just doodle little stick figures that follow the flow of the human body. once you get that flow, everything else gets a little easier
http://conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=206738&d=1190510500
you don't have to make them as complex as this, but see how the bones curve? that's what people are really like. you can simplfy the shoulders and hips with a line, but following the curve of the spine and the other limbs will really improve the human-ness of you drawings. the body tends to follow a line, caled the line of action
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc3p6bY6eu1qi6iivo1_500.jpg
the pink line represents the line of action and learning this rule helps to make the body seem more organic and alive.
hope this helps :)