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Harvester_Of_Sorrow
08-31-2012, 06:32 PM
This is a thread for discussing anything Supernatural or Alternative (as you may have gathered from the title) things like: homeopathy, palm reading, spiritualists, psychic mediums, chiropractic medicine, reflexology, alternative medicine and anything in that area.

My personal opinion on this matter could be fairly easily surmised by Australian musician and comedian, Tim Minchin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U&feature=related

Really, I want to hear from people who do believe in these sorts of things. Don't be shy.

Psy
08-31-2012, 11:49 PM
I am a palm reader and tarot card reader. Among other things.
Palm reading has been very reliable to me but I do concede to the idea and fact that people can just lie straight to my face and say what I tell them is spot on. I can tell what kind of person some one is by looking at their palm (knobby fingers are a nosy persons fingers, short fingers are short tempered people who will work quickly but messily, long fingers are patient people but most often are to laid back and unreliable). Again with tarot cards I can only tell you what I see and how I connect the cards meanings together and it's possible for some one to lie to me or read more into it than I am.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-01-2012, 11:06 AM
Oh, how interesting. I was expecting some people to say that they happen to believe in certain supernatural techniques, like palm reading, but to hear from someone who says that they are a palm reader, I can get straight to the source.

Firstly, did you learn to be a palm reader; did you learn from books, youtube videos, a mystic taught you in person etc, or is this an ability that you were born with, is it innate and you just see things in the lines of a persons palm that the average person can't see?

Secondly, it's very honest of you to admit that certain people will take what you tell them and just 'make it fit' (for want of a better term) into their own lives. For example, you could tell a person with short fingers as you say may be a short tempered and they may think 'Oh, yeah, I do lose my temper sometimes.' I would argue that we all lose our temper at times, and indeed we can all be nosy, patient, laid back and unreliable in relativity equal measure. But that's just my view. My question would be, have you ever been extremely specific about a reading you have made, purely from a person palm. Something like, 'You lost your job 3 weeks ago, because you threw your monitor at the line manager.' Are you able to make specific claims, or can you only tell general personality traits of the person you are giving the reading too?

Thirdly, I don't know a huge amount about the process of how a tarot card reading works, if you could explain it to me, in your own words, I would be grateful.

eltoroguaco
09-01-2012, 11:38 AM
First of all... Bro, you like Minchin! Way to go man!

Then, I agree with Everything on the video. It's annoying, unrealistic and a complete waste of time.
I only believe in what I can get proofs of. Yet, I don't mind others believe in stuff. My mom believe in 6th senses, healing crystals, voodoo and what not. I've had some arguments with her, but I've experience that the believers are really damn stubborn. So easier not to argue and just let people believe what they want to as long as it won't affect me.

Psy
09-01-2012, 04:28 PM
I learned from books because I had an interest and I can learn thru written instruction pretty well.

With palm reading it's land marks that you are looking for and location. So there are the heart head and life line but there is loads of other lesser lines that mean things.
We look at depth color shape length and location to know what they mean. The major lines are tied to an aspect of a person like the head line is intelligence. So if the head line is very faint that's a sign that the person is not using their intelligence to the fullest. If the line is short it's likely that the person is more of a physical person but not necessarily stupid. If it forks out at the end the person has trouble in verbal expression and uses an art form like drawing or writing to fully exspress themselves.
Wih the lesser lines we look for location and let of all. On the heart line if we see small lines shooting down off it that's a sign that this person is a flirt. Triangles on a major line is a time where you will be helped or protected in a tough situation. Hatch marks like # in any area mean a struggle and you can tell what kind if you know what that area represents.
Lots of times I have told people how many kids and the order they came in (that's how I got my job with my first boss). Told a lady who was prego that she would have twins and she started crying and told me she went to the drs that morning and the sonogram revealed twins and not even her husband knew yet. She was pretty small for a pregnant woman to.
I try to stick clear of predictions because I could totally misread anything and who knows what that could do for a person I read for.

With tarot cards each card means something. When you lay them out in a certain draw each position is a situation or a time. So knowing what a card means you can make a connection with the position it's in and how it relates to the other cards. Some readers don't believe in positive and negative positions (right side up and upside down) but I do so if it's positive it is the normal meaning but if it's negative it has the opposite meaning. When I read cards I don't ask anything other than what they want to know like "my love life, the next few months, my health." and then we do a draw and if they have a question I let them cut the cards and ask a specific question and will tell them what the card says questions are like "am I going to get fired, is bobby being faithful." and all that.

I allways tell the people I read for that I can only tell them what I see in their palms or the cards and it's possible that I read it wrong.

Edit: I should also mention that there are those that believe or rely on 100% intuition or the mystic forces or what ever. I don't. I believe that with palmreading at least that the physical marks of the palm are connected to the personality and records what's happened and only partially show what's to come. With cards I think it's possible to glimpse what is to come but I can see where someone would totally not believe. It's just that I do.

Gedeon
09-02-2012, 09:18 AM
The only way i believe someone can read a palm and know bits and pieces of someones character is if someone has an uncanny ability to know peoples palms...based on what they do... If you are Sherlock and you notice that my hand is full of sore-spots he can conclude that i do a job where my hands are under a lot of pressure. I dont believe that i can judge the length/joy/love of my life based on small folds of my skin that are there because each time i clench my fists my skin folds in the way its the least resistant.

eltoroguaco
09-02-2012, 10:45 AM
I agree with Geoden on this part. The lines on your palm changes on your age and not on your personality. Your personality can not change your body except for your physic, skin colour or if you chose to do a face lift or dye your hair.

The way sherlock holmes do it however, is possible. It's not supernatural or a born ability. It's something you can learn by knowing people and how things they do can affect what they wear and how they look.

Reading eyes however, can be possible in a small way. Cause you can see it in peoples eyes if they've been through lot of pain, used drugs in the past or at the moment or often been in light or dark places. For example, when you are angry or sad, you give a lot of pressure to your eyes. By doing so often, your eyes will be sore. So if you've been through a lot of pain, people could see that your eyes have been crying alot.

Gedeon
09-02-2012, 05:59 PM
Yeah but that still fits into the "Sherlock thesis" If you have experience and needed knowledge you can inspect the eyes and come to a conclusion.

AlmanacnamedTime
09-05-2012, 09:04 PM
Hey I just want to know how homeopathy is supernatural. It's a technique used and explained scientifically.

Kodos
09-07-2012, 11:17 AM
Homeopathy isn't supernatural, it's just fallacious. You can be wrong or full of shit without resorting to the supernatural.

EDIT: To clarify, homeopathy/alternative medicine isn't supernatural by default. It still often is.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Kodos is right, homeopathy is not supernatural to the same extent as mediums and such, of course, but I would certainly say it falls into the supernatural arena. Homeopathy originally relied on the doctrine of 'vitalism' that is that living things are only animated by a 'vital force' and it's disruptions in this force that cause diseases, and only by correcting these disruptions can these diseases be cured. Think of the force that Luke had to master to become a Jedi, but instead of being able to move shit with your mind or manipulate people, you cure diseases that are totally not caused by germs.

Homeopathy was invented by a German man named Samuel Hahnemann, who came up with the somewhat strange concept of 'like cures like' which is really the backbone of what homeopathy is all about. Basically, the idea was that if a person has an illness you should administer to them a substance that induces symptoms similar to those of the illness that the patient already has. This process would allow their 'vital force' to attack and cure the illness. An example of this is Hahnemann using cinchona, the bark of a tree native to Peru, as a treatment against malaria. He noted that when he applied this cinchona into his system that it produced malaria-like symptoms and concluded (with out much testing) that this would do the same on anyone else. This lead Hahnemann to conclude, and I quote: "that which can produce a set of symptoms in a healthy individual, can treat a sick individual who is manifesting a similar set of symptoms'' And as we all know this ground breaking treatment has completely wiped malaria off the map...Oh, wait.

Ofcourse, if one were to give a substance to a sick person that would make them even sicker, that would seem moronic even to the simplest of morons. Therefore, his solution was serial dilution of said treatment. What happens is you take your substance that you will use to cure a disease (even though it causes the same symptoms of that disease) and you dilute it in distilled water down to a ratio of 1 part in 100. Then you take that dillution and dilute it again down to a ratio of 1 part in 100 and you repeat this process not once more, not twice more, but 28 times more. Then you will end up with a 30C solution, meaning the original substance has been diluted by a ratio of 1 part in 100, 30 fucking times. And that is just what Hahenmann thought was correct, there are some homeopathic flu remedies today that are 200C solutions. So...it's water.

He also came up with the law of susceptibility, which I won't go into now, but it basically boils down to this statement: 'If you are ill, it is due to your own negative thinking.'

So, yes, the supernatural elements are certainly there. And Almanacnamedtime, homeopathy is not used in any established medical field, hence why it is described as an alternative medicine. But what do you mean by it is 'explained scientifically'?

Delphinus
09-07-2012, 08:58 PM
He also came up with the law of susceptibility, which I won't go into now, but it basically boils down to this statement: 'If you are ill, it is due to your own negative thinking.'

Fun fact: depressed people get ill more often than happy campers. Though this is more likely to be something to do with the placebo effect than anything else. Anecdote: I recover from colds in about 3 days if my attitude is "fuck you cold I do what I like" and in a week if I sit around feeling sorry for myself. He might have been onto something there - psychology...

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-07-2012, 10:21 PM
He thought it also applied to cancer and malaria too. We all know the placebo effect works, in certain circumstances, but nobody knows why. This guy certainly didn't.

Hayashida
09-07-2012, 11:27 PM
the interesting thing about placebos is not only the fact that they work so well, but they also work when the person using the placebo knows its a placebo

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
09-07-2012, 11:51 PM
I know, it's weird, isn't it? There is also the Nocebo effect, which is essentially the opposite of the Placebo effect and, again, nobody knows why that works either. I agree that the power of the mind is certainly a huge factor both for and against dealing with illness, in some cases at least, but that doesn't mean you can sell somebody water and tell them it will help their diabetes. That's just lying.