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TheVermillionFox
08-07-2012, 04:16 PM
First Entry: August 7th, 2012

Manga style self-portrait, drawn using Chibi Paint.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/200/7/3/deviant_id_by_scanty_kneesocks-d57vom2.jpg

Demonfyre
08-07-2012, 05:12 PM
Looks good VF :) Be careful with the neck, it ends at different levels when it should end on a straight line as the figure is looking straight at us and lastly you have forgotten the whites of the eyes, keep up the good work :)

TheVermillionFox
08-07-2012, 05:15 PM
Actually, I was kind of going for a pose where her head is slightly tilted to the left in a quarter view, but her eyes are facing the viewer. And eye whites make my drawing look weired, but I'll think about it.

Thanks for the critique!

Demonfyre
08-07-2012, 05:19 PM
Well in that case I think you should look at some heads and try to make the fact her head is slightly turned a bit more obvious, it looks like she is standing straight towards us. Also remember to shorten the eye further away from the viewer, keep those points in mind and thats most of what there is to fix :) and your welcome :D hope this has helped somewhat :)

By the way what happened to your old account/thread? o:

TheVermillionFox
08-07-2012, 05:56 PM
I don't know...for some reason I couldn't log in to the forums. I don't know if that was fixed now, but too late for that now O3O.

It doesn't look like it at all, I know T_T. I know how to draw heads, I just don't know how to draw a completed picture.

TheVermillionFox
08-08-2012, 05:05 AM
Second Entry: August 8th, 2012

Unfinished contest entry for MOB Contest Room.

http://mangatutorials.com/mob/contest/pictures/OP_668.png

ScarletHue
08-08-2012, 07:19 AM
I love the idea. But there are two things that stick out to me. The arms are too long (they seem to finish at his knees or below), and the leg that goes off screen is longer and thicker than the other one.

-scarlet

TheVermillionFox
08-08-2012, 07:31 AM
Well, the picture is kind of at a quarter view, so the legs are kind of supposed to be at a perspective...? I'm bad with presenting perspective, so it looks stupid.

Thanks for the crits ^_^

JJJorgie
08-08-2012, 11:16 AM
I agree with Scarlet, even if it is at quarter view. Also, I think the far thigh should be a little bit longer.

TheVermillionFox
08-08-2012, 11:57 AM
Your right about that.

TheVermillionFox
08-08-2012, 06:46 PM
Third Entry: 8/8/12

Contest prize for n3k0k0n3k0 on MOB.

Yuzuki Yukari © 2011 AH Software, All Rights Reserved.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Artwork%202012/OP_12002.png

Demonfyre
08-08-2012, 06:57 PM
Okay the first obvious thing that stands out to me is that you have an arm that looks like a box, either you've made the upper section incredibly and abnormally large or you have forgotten to show the joint and beef the arm out correctly, I'll draw an example ASAP and edit this post and add it in for you.

The second thing is the eyes, I personally think they are too close to the edges of the face, but I could be wrong, wait to see if anybody else says the same thing is what I would suggest.

Lastly the pose looks as if it's being drawn 3/4, if this is the case the face looks off again, it looks like its looking straight at us but the features have been moved to the side. If this pose is in fact straight forward then I think your problem lies with the way you've drawn the chin... It's hard to explain why though :/

Edit: Never mind I think it's because the head is tilted slightly up if that makes sense

TheVermillionFox
08-08-2012, 07:17 PM
Well the jaw is angled correctly so I don't see what's wrong with it, really.

And I suck at drawing curves T_T so that's why the arms lack thereof.

Thanks ^_^

Demonfyre
08-08-2012, 07:53 PM
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q599/Demonfyre1/2035e559.jpg

Hope that helps :)

Other than what I mentioned it looks really good VF :) keep up the good work :D

TheVermillionFox
08-08-2012, 08:13 PM
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind (or my iPhone, either one.)

TheVermillionFox
08-08-2012, 09:25 PM
Fourth Entry: 8/8/12

Exodus character sketch, I'm still working on her design a bit.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Artwork%202012/a176c2ab.jpg

She's wearing a suit, so her legs are supposed to look like that.

EDIT: Fixed most of it.


...Either the upper body is a little too short, or the legs are a little too long (this depends if you want 6 heads high or 7). Also, because the upper body's shorter than the lower body, the arms look too short, too...

From what I've learned, the older the character is, the longer the legs. My character is in her mid twenties.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Pictures/b09e1490.jpg

JJJorgie
08-08-2012, 09:47 PM
I'm going to assume that you want this to have correct human anatomy, so that's what I'm going to use for critiques.

The far arm is too short compared to the front arm. Since the shoulders aren't dipped or shrugged, the arms should be the same length.

Either the upper body is a little too short, or the legs are a little too long (this depends if you want 6 heads high or 7). Also, because the upper body's shorter than the lower body, the arms look too short, too.

The hands are too small. The eyes are a little low and too far apart (eye are only one eye length apart). The breasts are oddly shaped (boxy instead of being rounder). The shoulder on the left shouldn't be that much smaller than the one on the right. the arm upper should go down to the waist; it's too short.

Hope this helps.

Prince of Angels
08-09-2012, 07:44 PM
PoA's Notes: Its really good, but I found basically one thing other than what JJJ put. An I will tell you in teh form of a question: Is she supposed to have 4 fingers? Or can I not see the fifth? :3 Hope this is of use.

Demonfyre
08-09-2012, 07:58 PM
Everything I noticed has already been mentioned by JJ and PoA, for a quick way to check the leg length they should be aproximately the same length as the length of the body from the top of the head to the crotch, hopefully that will make checking the leg height easier for you :) also that character design is awesome, kinda reminds me of Predator :D keep up your good work :)

TheVermillionFox
08-09-2012, 08:00 PM
Everything I noticed has already been mentioned by JJ and PoA, for a quick way to check the leg length they should be aproximately the same length as the length of the body from the top of the head to the crotch, hopefully that will make checking the leg height easier for you :) also that character design is awesome, kinda reminds me of Predator :D keep up your good work :)

Thanks, I'll come up with an improved digital version soon ^_^


PoA's Notes: Its really good, but I found basically one thing other than what JJJ put. An I will tell you in teh form of a question: Is she supposed to have 4 fingers? Or can I not see the fifth? :3 Hope this is of use.

Nah, I'm just lazy with hands.
__________________________________________________ ____

Fifth Entry: 9/8/12


Character for my upcoming webcomic, "The Fall".

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Artwork%202012/9e2acfae.jpg

Cover for CH 1

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Comics/The%20Fall/0ec8953a.jpg

Prince of Angels
08-10-2012, 03:57 PM
Oh an edit, never noticed this before just now. :3

PoA's Notes: Bad Things: Char #1: The eyes look a little too far apart, but that might be just because of the nose. It kind of looks like a dog nose. Which, is probably because of the lighting. The left (her right) hand's knuckles need to be shorter, . :3 Needs some shading on the back of her hair and her left (our right) looks a bit pointy, maybe because it falls OS. Char #2: Hands again. His left (our right) the palm needs to be thinner while the fingers needs thickening. If he's grabbing his hair, I think it might need some creases or something to indicate he's holding his hair.

Good Things: Char #1: The under shirt, turtleneck thing. It goes nice with her outfit over all. That's really it, I do like the whole outfit for her. Good things Char #2: Angel Wings... that means I am his prince. :D Bow down to me! :) Again, the outfit is really cool. The colouring is really good too. :D Good job! And I hope my Criting will do you some good.

TheVermillionFox
08-10-2012, 04:14 PM
The fact that my eraser didnt work very well helped with making my final nose attempt look like a dogs, oops.

And actually, that dude is a fallen angel XD, so you no longer rule him :3.

Thanks for the crits :D

Prince of Angels
08-10-2012, 05:02 PM
And actually, that dude is a fallen angel XD, so you no longer rule him :3.

Nuuuu! :cat_mad:

Demonfyre
08-10-2012, 06:08 PM
Picture 1:

By visual observation it appears that the legs are too long or the body is too short, I'm beginning to think it would be good practice for you to measure out the head heights and have chart beside you for reference, tha should help you with that problem. Also some shading would really give it some volume :)

Picture 2:

The hands , particularily the one covering his eye; the fingers randomly change size, try to keep them reasonably the same size unless they are being obstructed from view by objects or the fingers themselves. The upper right leg appears to be quite thin, especially on comparison with the upper left leg. I love the wings on this drawing :D

Hope that helps :)



Nuuuu! :cat_mad:

Lol :P

TheVermillionFox
08-19-2012, 07:09 AM
I've never thought about head heights before, I might try it, if I'm not too lazy -.-

Sixth Entry: 8/19/12

Enjoy some sassy teenage Aeden fanart:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Facebook/Wall%20Photos/523235_134010243409406_704661693_n.jpg

Demonfyre
08-19-2012, 07:50 AM
Avast! Here be a lucky chart for ye for using Head Heights;

http://www.idrawdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/prop2.jpg

That should help ye, for manga style I suggest using 6/7 heads tall (6 -Younger Teens or deformed teens, 7 - Older Teens and borderline Adults, 8 head heights is reserved either incredibly daunting characters or for proper human anatomy (which is good practice by the way and incredibly helpful!)


As for your new peice, watch out for the arm thickness, the left arm looks much thicker than the right. Also the right collarbone should be pointing up towards the shoulder, yours appears to just go parallel with the shoulder. Hope this helped :)

JJJorgie
08-19-2012, 02:43 PM
Your coloring's improving. Right now, I'm just going to put some critiques about the anatomy.

The eyes are much too far apart. Remember, eyes are only ONE eye's length away from eachother. The tail doesn't connect to anything or else you'd be able to see it through the legs. Compared to the head, the body should be longer (this would take care of the problem with the tail). The arms are too long compared to the crotch. The mouth's too low. Are the horns supposed to be 3D, because they look pretty flat.

TheVermillionFox
08-22-2012, 08:29 AM
Your coloring's improving. Right now, I'm just going to put some critiques about the anatomy.

The eyes are much too far apart. Remember, eyes are only ONE eye's length away from eachother. The tail doesn't connect to anything or else you'd be able to see it through the legs. Compared to the head, the body should be longer (this would take care of the problem with the tail). The arms are too long compared to the crotch. The mouth's too low. Are the horns supposed to be 3D, because they look pretty flat.

Thanks :D


Avast! Here be a lucky chart for ye for using Head Heights;

That should help ye, for manga style I suggest using 6/7 heads tall (6 -Younger Teens or deformed teens, 7 - Older Teens and borderline Adults, 8 head heights is reserved either incredibly daunting characters or for proper human anatomy (which is good practice by the way and incredibly helpful!)


As for your new peice, watch out for the arm thickness, the left arm looks much thicker than the right. Also the right collarbone should be pointing up towards the shoulder, yours appears to just go parallel with the shoulder. Hope this helped :)

Thanks, I'll use that sometime.
______________________________________________

Seventh Entry: 8/22/12

New avatar, this one looks more like me. And I took what demonfyre said and made it look more like a 3/4 view. I still see something wrong with the jaw though, maybe it's just my squiggly lines.

http://www.groudonsflame.com/pictures/OP_8529.jpg

And this one is the official design for my superhero, and the entry for the new MOB Contest, awesome idea JJ. I know that there is something terribly wrong with one of the hands.

http://mangatutorials.com/mob/contest/pictures/OP_676.png

Demonfyre
08-22-2012, 11:25 AM
On exodus: The top half of the arms are longer than the lower half of the arm and are much too long, they should be equal lengths and the upper arm should end around the bottom of the rib cage. The thighs are different widths and finally I think that the right knee is really small in comparison with the other leg which is probably down to the fact the thigh is too thin. I love the design :D keep up the good work :)

TheVermillionFox
08-28-2012, 07:43 PM
On exodus: The top half of the arms are longer than the lower half of the arm and are much too long, they should be equal lengths and the upper arm should end around the bottom of the rib cage. The thighs are different widths and finally I think that the right knee is really small in comparison with the other leg which is probably down to the fact the thigh is too thin. I love the design :D keep up the good work :)

Okay, I'll look for that next time. But I'm pretty sure I screwed the arms up on this one:

Eighth Entry: 8/28/12

Birthday present for my best friend. I already see that the arm thickness is uneven and the hair shading is in the wrong direction at the bottom.

http://mangatutorials.com/mob/doodle/pictures/OP_12255.png

Slurpee
08-28-2012, 09:36 PM
The concept for the picture is pretty good. I can tell what youre aiming for.
The neck however is too large. Try downsizing it a bit.
The effect I think youre going for would work a lot better if you used a cooler shade of blue. in the background.
And you should try for line depth. If you had better line depth, it would really help for the emphasis on the horn.

Overall, I feel like youre a begginer artist whos honestly trying, and I like to see that ! :)

JJJorgie
08-28-2012, 09:42 PM
I think you really need to do some anatomy and facial structure studies. It will help a lot and you'll be extremely happy with the results.

The eyes need to be high way up on the face. Basically, the whole face is too low. The eyes are too far apart. What it really needs is a narrower and smaller head; the head and neck is just very large it seems when compared to the body. You've shaded the face as if it were balloon shaped. Also, your light source isn't consistent. The arms are different lengths. The collarbone is in the wrong place/angled oddly.

Demonfyre
08-28-2012, 10:14 PM
She is looking good :) however you are still making the lower arm abnormally small and the top half of the arm is still very linear plus everything else mentioned, other than that it's looking great :D keep up the good work :)

TheVermillionFox
09-02-2012, 07:41 AM
The concept for the picture is pretty good. I can tell what youre aiming for.
The neck however is too large. Try downsizing it a bit.
The effect I think youre going for would work a lot better if you used a cooler shade of blue. in the background.
And you should try for line depth. If you had better line depth, it would really help for the emphasis on the horn.

Overall, I feel like youre a begginer artist whos honestly trying, and I like to see that ! :)

I am not a beginner...what's line depth?


I think you really need to do some anatomy and facial structure studies. It will help a lot and you'll be extremely happy with the results.

The eyes need to be high way up on the face. Basically, the whole face is too low. The eyes are too far apart. What it really needs is a narrower and smaller head; the head and neck is just very large it seems when compared to the body. You've shaded the face as if it were balloon shaped. Also, your light source isn't consistent. The arms are different lengths. The collarbone is in the wrong place/angled oddly.

Dang it, I just realized the shading on the clothing was completly screwed up, but I can't fix it now because the layers merged (stupid oekaki applet...).


She is looking good :) however you are still making the lower arm abnormally small and the top half of the arm is still very linear plus everything else mentioned, other than that it's looking great :D keep up the good work :)

Oops, I guess that's a pet peeve of mine -_-lll

Ninth Entry: 9/8/2012

http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=141&d=1346585546

I meant to add stars in the background, but I accidently didn't save it as a raw CP file that I could edit when I was done. The only thing that's in the file now is half the lineart *facepalm*. And I was thinking that if there was something wrong with it I could fix it, I'm so stupid. On the other hand, this is an art trade with SapphireShine on DA. I'll begin on Demonfyre's next.

One thing that pisses me off about Corel Painter is that it uses pen pressure, which I suck at using correctly. Now my line weights look all faggy...

http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=144&d=1346596493

Noiw this one I saved as a RIFF with everything done, so I can fix whatever I need to.

Rubisko
09-02-2012, 08:23 AM
One thing that pisses me off about Corel Painter is that it uses pen pressure, which I suck at using correctly. Now my line weights look all faggy...

If you haven't you need to setup your pen pressure and speed in the scratcher, you'll find it under edit>preferences if I'm not mistaken.

TheVermillionFox
09-02-2012, 08:31 AM
Thanks, that helped :D

Demonfyre
09-02-2012, 01:36 PM
Oh yay! You got the arm problem sorted! Well done :) only thing I want to suggest is to use a hand reference for that left hand and do some hand studies :) keep up the good work!

Shadowsfade
09-03-2012, 06:02 AM
The thighs in the first picture are really short - they're half the length of the head! compare with your own legs - not that way in real life! But I like the design of the suit, and the facial expression is portrayed well. Also, I think it'd be worth practicing the shape of heads more - on lots of your pictures, the outline of the face is quite wobbly, with random bumps etc that shouldnt be there. The shape is pretty much there, but it may be worth just practicing doing long continuous lines so that the outlines are smoother :)

JJJorgie
09-03-2012, 07:45 AM
I'm not sure if you're ignoring the critiques and advice people are giving you here or if you just don't understand. But, honestly, you're continuing to repeat the same mistakes even thoigh people kerp pointing them out.

The best advice I can give you is LOOK AT REFERENCES, STUDY ANATOMY, AND HOW TO COLOR HAIR, SKIN, AND CLOTHING WITH DIFFERENTLY ANGLED LIGHT SOURCES.

TheVermillionFox
09-03-2012, 08:57 AM
The thighs in the first picture are really short - they're half the length of the head! compare with your own legs - not that way in real life! But I like the design of the suit, and the facial expression is portrayed well. Also, I think it'd be worth practicing the shape of heads more - on lots of your pictures, the outline of the face is quite wobbly, with random bumps etc that shouldn't be there. The shape is pretty much there, but it may be worth just practicing doing long continuous lines so that the outlines are smoother :)

Oi, thanks. And I need to work on my lining.


I'm not sure if you're ignoring the critiques and advice people are giving you here or if you just don't understand. But, honestly, you're continuing to repeat the same mistakes even thoigh people kerp pointing them out.

The best advice I can give you is LOOK AT REFERENCES, STUDY ANATOMY, AND HOW TO COLOR HAIR, SKIN, AND CLOTHING WITH DIFFERENTLY ANGLED LIGHT SOURCES.

I'm not ignoring them, sometimes I don't always know what to look for and some of the changes depend on what's in the picture. And I'm trying to get to that so just chill :cat_tea:

Tenth Entry: 8/3/12

Any crits for chibis?

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/247/2/9/fa__minecraft_icon_thingy_by_scanty_kneesocks-d5diqpw.png

(Oh jeez, SF was right. My lines look awful...I need to start tapering.)

JJJorgie
09-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Yeah, I assumed you were confused about some critiques. If you need clarification, don't be afraid to ask people for it. And, the capitalization wasn't in anger, it was just showing how important those studies are. I can't stress how important anatomy is.

If you don't know what to look for, make a liist of any suggestions or critiques that people have given you, make a rough sketch, and go through checking the list. Also, for neater lines, try using the lines/vector tools. The chibi's really cute!

Demonfyre
09-03-2012, 02:16 PM
Right this is how you should go about getting your heads correct;

Here are some examples of head studies, your new best friend;

(1) Practice of head form and in different orientations and angles; (try to ignore the arms and the failed body)

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q599/Demonfyre1/sketch_dump__1_by_thedemonfyre-d5cazb7.jpg

(2) Taking my knowledge from the head form study and now practicing detail and placements of facial features;

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q599/Demonfyre1/5C40E7F0-2C09-4657-91AA-115A1EDD3A15-4301-0000058469B80787.jpg

(3) Rei/Sutari Head Sketches (Example of how detailed you can go into them and how awesome you will become with time);

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q599/Demonfyre1/photo-1.png


Right look what I did, first of all I concentrated only on the form, making sure to get them correct and only putting in brief indications where eyes and stuff go. Also note that there are many ways to draw heads so make sure to practice different head styles as well. I also make sure to try many different angles, unless you have particulr problems with one angle then make sure to do a variety of them or you will find you won'tbe able to draw heads at the large variety of angles that we as humans can put out heads into.

After doing that quite a number times and making sure I was happy with the head forms I then made a couple more and this time put in detail trying to make sure placement was all correct but at the same time paying attention to what I had learnt previously. Also practice accessories and different head styles again as this will all effect the final outcome. Then I post them up, get feedback and repeat.

You may have noticed that I have done this a couple of times in the past couple of weeks and the reason is because I've only just realised that the heads I drew had several problems. Now I continue at least every week to do a head study because even though in manga anime style the heads are simplistic compared to anatomically accepted heads, they still have their own respective complexities which do require working on. Now, i've only had about three major head studies using that procedure and the amount of detail and form of the heads have improved is astronomical compared to when I begun, still lots of room for improvement but they are getting somewhere. Try this and your problem will begin to iron itself out. They can also be fun exercises if you want them to be :) a good example is how Rei draws heads (provided in the spoiled section), they are amazing, why? because he practices them constantly xD and I think you would benefit from doing the same :)

Also practice drawing nice flowing straight lines out on paper or on whatever CG format you use. This will help make you more confident in your line work.


Other notes;

> Use references if you require them to be able to visualise how the neck joins to the head and just to help with angles etc.
> Really make sure to post them up, it's the way you can identify you're mistakes so you can concentrate and fix them.
> Don't use my heads as reference, they have many flaws, especially long necks... keep doing that >.>'


Hope this helps :)

Edit: Thanks Rubisko ^_^ changed it now

Rubisko
09-03-2012, 03:32 PM
^
Only not shape but form. Yes, form were the correct answer

The chibi looks like it was made with a minecraft angle to it, in which case I have to say that it looks very minecrafty indeed. However, to build upon the form thing, blocks have form as well. The chibi now only constitute of shapes, which make it flat. If you use forms to build with instead, and of course put them in perspective, your figures will seem more substantial and three-dimensional. Read "fun with a Pencil", it kicks

TheVermillionFox
09-03-2012, 06:49 PM
@Rubisco: You mean like sketching out the Chibi using shapes with depth or something? That could work.

Okay so here's my new method. I'm gonna draw some body parts in different views on a page, and your going to help me fix what I need and I'll wrote the concept down on paper. Kind of like taking notes, sound good? JJ Gave me the idea.

Eleventh Entry: 3/9/12

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Artwork%202012/7866389A-41C9-4CF3-AEC2-C2EABD9996C8-6014-0000097C4BB4A87A.jpg

First up; basic head poses.

Next up; advanced head poses.

Third up; misc head poses.

JJJorgie
09-03-2012, 07:11 PM
First head: not bad! The eyes are too far apart (remember: only one eye length apart). The ears are small (in thickness, not length)

For the next two, here's a really great guide:
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs45/f/2009/073/d/0/manga_style_head_template___F_by_kohakuhoshi.jpg

So, for the second: the ear and the jaw go too far back. Also, the forehead could be a little more pronounced.

Third head: For 3/4 view the chin needs to be over to the left a ton more. And, even in this view, the eyes are still only an eye's length away.

Demonfyre
09-03-2012, 07:37 PM
I can't say i'm very happy with posting up a red line thing as I am no expert but it's the easiest way to get it across;

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q599/Demonfyre1/VFHeads.png

What i'm trying to show is that on the very slightly turned face is you have the axis going straight down like you would in straight forward pose which would make it a straight forward pose, to fix it what I've done done to the right of that is draw in the centre axis and move the face axis slightly to the left of the centre and then build the jaw around it so it actually is turned, hopefully that makes sense.

Obviously as JJ pointed out with that link, the more the face is turned the more left the face axis will go.

---

Edit:
See for the slightly turned one just start from scratch again and post it up, slightly adjusting the chin won't work as effectively as just making a quick redraw

TheVermillionFox
09-03-2012, 07:40 PM
How's this?

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Artwork%202012/E3F3AE26-D13D-4E4F-BAC5-A44173BC6563-6014-000009862F0AC558.jpghttp://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Artwork%202012/33B483C8-777E-4595-AD3F-3A260A81936E-6014-000009862BB117AF.jpg http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u400/TheVermillionFox/Artwork%202012/C8B95F87-C19D-467A-A204-ACEAAF9E08B2-6014-0000098628B93D1C.jpg

Slurpee
09-03-2012, 07:44 PM
Pretty good actually, especially the profile.

Oh yes, try not to use lined paper..

Demonfyre
09-03-2012, 07:45 PM
Redraw the slightly turned face from scratch again, but make sure to take in all the points we've made this time, it's the one you're having problems with so I suggest drawing several of them this time :)

JJJorgie
03-26-2013, 11:03 AM
Uh, sorry, but... didn't you say you were completely done with the MT forum and made fun of a lot of it's members on one of your DA journals?

TheVermillionFox
03-26-2013, 12:51 PM
I didn't make fun of them, I made a few comments, and I apologize for that. I've come back, there's nothing wrong with someone changing their mind.

jaidurn
03-26-2013, 03:48 PM
Okay here's the lowdown according to jaidurn.
http://i.imgur.com/g5YJk96.jpg
Alright.
1. Remember, people have skulls! The skull is the basic form you need to work from. Once you know the skull, you can then place the features where the skull wants them to be! The eyes go into the eye sockets, the nasal structure is based off the bridge of the nose, ect.

Currently, you draw the eyes too far apart. There should only be an eye width between them! Rule of thumb, the eyes should be pretty much the middle on most people. Toddlers and infants have a different facial structure, but we won't go into that right now.

Next, the top of the ears are about the middle of the eyes. The bottom of the ears is usually the end of the nose!

For the jawline, make sure you can fit a nice healthy jawbone in there! Your character needs to be able to chew his food properly!


2 & 3. I'm going to merge these two because they're similar in nature. The limbs are a bit long. The hands should end up falling about the crotch region. This way people can easily undo their pants when they need to use the restroom! The legs should be as long or a tad bit longer than the torso. Humans are pretty evened out.

4. Make sure you know your muscles! The pectorals don't show through clothing unless it's a really tight shirt and the person is really fit. Check out The Rock in most of his movies to see what I mean. Or like Hugh Jackman. Either of the two works really.

The trapezius muscle connects to the shoulder like this(Ignore the drawing to the left. I mostly needed the right image.):
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/720/critl.png

5. Remember, the human body has form! It's not a 2D shape! Perspective and form are key. The human body can be broken down into simple forms, such as the sphere. Really, if you can draw forms, you can easily draw the human body. Just remember perspective when you practice the forms.

I drew the pose on the right for more of a visual form thing. Don't take it as law! The only law is life drawing!

I'd recommend reading Andrew Loomis' book, "Fun with a Pencil."

You can get it for free here: http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/

I'm really looking forward to seeing how you improve, mate. Keep it up!

TheVermillionFox
03-26-2013, 03:52 PM
Thanks a lot :D you should teach.

jaidurn
03-26-2013, 04:07 PM
they do say that those who can't do, teach.

huehuehuehue.

Also, a great post to read is in this thread:
http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?2650-someguy-s-drawings

It's the one by toast. She's the true teacher here.

TheVermillionFox
03-26-2013, 04:28 PM
Ah, okay.

BunnyVoid
03-28-2013, 01:17 AM
Heyo scanty! :)

nice picture you got there. You improved quite well in such short time (or was I gone for that long?!) lol :) Anyway its nice that you are exploring more posses and more characters... Just like jaidurn said, careful with anatomy. Also careful with the balance of the character's position... May need study on poses.

Personally, I'd like to see face studies and quick gesture drawings to see more of your raw drawing style
Also careful with colors... May need to lessen emphasis on background by using more sublte colors and less details...

All is good scanty :) you improved so much :)
Take care always, would want to see more from you :)

TheVermillionFox
03-28-2013, 06:52 AM
Bunneh ;A;

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 09:47 AM
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/152/3/3/new_coloring_style_by_scanty_kneesocks-d67egu1.png

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/153/0/2/juniper_the_amphibian_hybrid_by_scanty_kneesocks-d67f381.png

Haha well I haven't posted here in a while.
This is a new coloring style I'm trying out, I think I will stick with it.
Any improvements or suggestions?

trilokcool3
06-02-2013, 11:28 AM
Hi vermillionfox ...
I went through all the post here.
I came to a same conclusion that jjjorgie came once but you said that you are confused.
I didn't see any variations. You are doin the same mistakes.
1. Your line arts r still same . Lacking smooth outlines .
2. Anatomy faults.
one thing is good that coloring is nice.
DO LOTS Of FANARTS .

Demonfyre
06-02-2013, 02:21 PM
The issues you experience are not of style or preference, they are being carried over and over and over into every peice because they are of a more fundamental reason than one shot. My suggestions;

Work on gestures for your full body drawings, they are getting stiff and linear.
When drawing think in 3D, a lot of your colour/lighting doesn't describe the form it is hitting. I would say it helps to breakdown the anatomy into simple shapes like two cylinders for the upper and forearm, cubes for ribcage and pelvis, cylinder for the upper leg, tapered cuboids for the feet etc.
Lastly, there is a universal absence of folds in the clothing.

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 05:22 PM
Well I do draw out the sketches using shapes so are you saying I should make the shapes look more three dimensional?
The sad thing is I forget to add folds.

JJJorgie
06-02-2013, 07:10 PM
Yes, third dimensional. You drawings look extremely flat. A way to improve that, also, is to draw with correct anatomy. None of your pictures have great anatomy and one of the biggest problems with all of them is the almost complete lack of symmetry. They all seem to have different size and length limbs and features. The rigid lines make the drawing look slopp and even more unbalanced, as well.

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 07:24 PM
I'll stop doing that then.

I'm still confused about how to not make a drawing look flat though???

Demonfyre
06-02-2013, 07:29 PM
JJ puts it bluntly and it is the truth, but those are your flaws. You also admitted to a reluctance to study such areas, however that's the quick way to tackle the problems.

Yeah, if you can try to just sketch cubes and cylinders and such using proper perspective, it will help you freehand sketch them in the construction phase of your drawings. Also I would strip it back to the basics, you are being very ambitious, but if you want to work on it then I think you need to work on these core areas first and the rest will fall into place.

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 07:37 PM
Well I know that. The 'make it look less flat' thing is still confusing me though. An example would help maybe?

JJJorgie
06-02-2013, 07:43 PM
Flat means it doesn't jump of the page at you. It's obviously two dimensional. Basically, it means it's kinda uninteresting and doesn't grab a viewers eye nor their attention it just kind sits still. Not to say your art isn't interesting, it just looks very amatuerish.

Demonfyre
06-02-2013, 07:44 PM
Flat;

http://www.elliepoopaper.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/10_x_a4_wildflower_seeded_paper.jpg
http://www.elliepoopaper.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/10_x_a4_wildflower_seeded_paper.jpg

The light and shadows are almost equal in value, and that is throughout each piece of paper. The small gradation in value gives the illusion of being flat.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_BePdvh1e-uY/TBqpwLEZWGI/AAAAAAAAARs/oXRDXpIk2Do/s1600/idealsolid.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_BePdvh1e-uY/TBqpwLEZWGI/AAAAAAAAARs/oXRDXpIk2Do/s1600/idealsolid.jpg

Rapid and drastic range of values to emphasize the shadows and the curvature of the objects.


That is what I mean by flat vs 3d shading.

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 07:47 PM
I'll just get a friend to help me because this still isn't answering my question.

Demonfyre
06-02-2013, 07:49 PM
Can you specify what area isn't making sense?

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 07:52 PM
Well I'm doing the shading as best as I can, with the exception of the hair which I am changing, but what other factor besides the anatomy makes it look flat?

JJJorgie
06-02-2013, 08:09 PM
The anatomy, the rigid lines, and the unrealistic shading.

With your VERY cartoony style, I think cell shading would suit you better

Demonfyre
06-02-2013, 08:12 PM
The small value range is what makes it flat, you also tend to use a light and pastel look which would be around 2-ish I guess. (see image below)

To make the image pop and seem 3D you want to be using a large range of values (for example from 1 through to 5 in a realistic or portrait piece), from really dark (shadows) to really light (light saturation) and then halftones (Value 3 and there about) to shade the areas where light and absence of light mix. I would say you use 2-3 which is only a change of 2, however you are looking for a change of 3/4 maybe even 5 if you were going for realism.

http://www.brianjacobsart.com/blogImages/05110511five_value_study.jpg
http://www.brianjacobsart.com/blogImages/05110511five_value_study.jpg

1 >>--> 5 (changes from artist and range used, for example 1 >>--> 10 etc)
Dark to Light

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 08:16 PM
I get what JJ is saying but hhhh this is all so confusing to me.
Let me just get this drawing finished and see if it looks any better.

I really like the style of shading I'm using now. Cell shading to me is really difficult and I don't like flats at all.

Demonfyre
06-02-2013, 08:25 PM
Hmm... I'm sorry if the way I'm writing it is hard to understand :/

However, I found this video will help you and goes over a bit of what I said;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh46wMztO1s

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 08:49 PM
Ah okay, I will have to save that for later because I don't have speakers.
Here's that picture I was talking about:

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/153/6/e/avatar_2013_by_lingbyrd-d67lmje.png

JJJorgie
06-02-2013, 08:53 PM
Okay, I don't know if you've noticed, but you're "shading" is just basically a lots of gradients in different colors for each different body part. This isn't a perfect example in any way, but I tried to recreate your style, but using better anatomy, smoother lines, and shading that matches the shape of the face, hair, clothes, and body. I used a limited range of colors like you usually do as well. This is just to show how a few changes in different CORE areas of art can change your art:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8940/93522968.png

TheVermillionFox
06-02-2013, 09:14 PM
Just saying here, that looks really great UvU and thanks for the little sample. I'll try and do something similar to that soon.

trilokcool3
06-03-2013, 01:32 AM
i will suggest you a far better way, less time consuming.
Set a time to spent a bit with jjjorgie in GROUPBOARD . I am damn sure 90percent of your confusions will be cleared.

TheVermillionFox
06-03-2013, 06:21 AM
The group board won't work for me on my computer.

JJJorgie
06-03-2013, 10:39 AM
I could livestream I video if you ever wanted. Do you have a Skype that we could chat while the video's going?

TheVermillionFox
06-03-2013, 03:31 PM
Yeah I do.

RedCaliburn
06-26-2013, 01:45 AM
I used to have this issue with stiff line art and why some of the things I paint or color with look flat. It's the issue of understanding 3D forms on a flat surface; it tricks the mind thinking it's actually real, or even possible to touch it.

Line art is something that will come out naturally as you draw more confidently and you understand the piece you draw behind it and one of the issue's I solved when drawing nice line art, is using my whole arm rather then my wrist to draw circles, lines and curves.
Secondly I recommend doing more figure drawing's to free your mind from certain restrictions. I wanted my characters to have life in them, so I use very quick 1-2 min sketches from posemaniacs.com/http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/ or even regular people in photographs just walking along the street. Drawing from life is your best bet and trust me, it will be a little messy the first time, but once I understood why it had to be done this way, then I moved on to other topics like: Why do people draw 3D stuff? Is there a point in drawing 3D? What am I learning from it?

For example, I take the human figure that's made out of cylinders and cubes. Not just flat squares and circles; why? It's because in reality, we're all made out of three dimensional things, I touch my arm, it's round. I feel my face, it's made out of different forms like skeletal and muscles and not just a square or a triangle. This is to help not second guess where you are placing any object or limb in your drawing's- because being unsure where everything goes will definitely show up in your drawing's!

I also noticed your shading is going all over the place with no true source of light hitting on your character. The shadows are too consistent and the value's are not flowing correctly in their perspective direction. I understand you really like to work with gradients and so do I too, but you really have to work with flat colors and value's first, because your drawing's will look very muddy and not as nice as you want them to be. I believe that shadows and light should be taken great care of once the form and drawing is complete. With great subtlety and understanding, it will definitely push your drawing's look greater then what you have now. I totally suggest reading james gurney "Color and light" for the realist painter, I'm reading it now as well. It has great information about the principle of light and shadow, and why colors are the way you see them.

Lastly, my final suggestion is to do a study of more reference material. Because you're starting off with fantasy and anime right away, you have to understand that it's just a style- it's based off the real world. For example, the purple (dragon?) doesn't really strike to me as real to me, since the tail and the shoes needed a bit more care to them to really show their design. If you need help with animals, use their reference's and apply them to your drawing's- but don't copy the exact pose of it.

I really hope this helped and that I'm not trying to be mean or downgrade your art; you just need a little more bit of effort, persistence and study and it will show up in your next art piece. You have the skills for it, but make sure you are pushing yourself little by little, even if it takes longer then it should. It will look amazing at the end of the day! :)