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View Full Version : Lineart help ? (For SAI)



chappy888
07-29-2012, 05:17 AM
I have been drawing using SAI for a long time and i can't figure out on how to make it nicer.I feel like my lineart is not clean enough and i couldn't identify the shadow coming from the light source properly.Also after i've coloured them it looks perfect for a while until I started to feels like its 2d-ish because of the lineart.Lastly while I draw the lineart I find my lineart really stiff too and I couldn't find a way to Not make it stiff.

Soo how can I improve it or any other way for me to make it make the lineart better.



BTW:I've seen his/her works here :https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.133749516764099.24362.131715513634166&type=3 and I want to noe wht did he use to make tht lineart ? o.o

Shadowsfade
07-29-2012, 07:08 AM
To me, it looks like they may have used the normal pen tool for that, but im not an expert so im just guessing

as for your problem, could you maybe post a picture or two or your lineart so we can see what it's like? that'll help us be more specific on how to make your lineart 'better'. do you use a tablet or a mouse?

Demonfyre
07-29-2012, 07:31 AM
Post up a picture please :)

Also are you vectoring or are using a tablet and pen tool?

chappy888
07-29-2012, 07:40 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/boktai/aloisiaprojectlineart.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/boktai/Romylineart.jpg

You can find my end result in my deviantart page.
First of,I don't normally use vector (unless its for buildings and furniture stuff) and second I use pen tablet to draw out the lineart.

JJJorgie
07-29-2012, 02:11 PM
I think this is probably as clean as it's going to get! If you think the lineart's too flat, add various weights to the lines instead of just using one size. Do you have JTablet installed? JTablet helps variate the thickness by pressure when using a tablet pen.

Psiartist
07-29-2012, 03:46 PM
There are a few things you can do to help improve your lineart in Sai.

First, you can increase you stabilizer to make your lines less jittery and more smooth. The amount you want depends on your computer power and how fluid you need things to be. Too much and your computer runs slow (if it cant handle it) and too little and it looks jittery. I have mine set at 10.

The second thing you can do is add line weight. You can do this while drawing or afterwards. I would suggest you continue how you are now. Then make a new layer and add the weight you want. When you are done you can merge down. Doing it on a new layer allows you to delete it easy if you do not like it and keep what is below clean.

The other thing I do is to not use complete black for my lineart color. I use a darker gray but it stands out differently than black. Fortunately, you can just hit preserve opacity and color your lineart with different colors and see how that affects your outcome.

Lastly, when I finish coloring I set the opacity of the lineart down a little. It helps a little to let the colors show more than the lines.

After looking at the artist you posted in the first post, I think I know how that kind of lineart is created. I think he uses the pen tool in PS. Simple as that. The lines are black (so no gray or other colors), there is no line weight, and there is very little or no opacity take off of the lineart layer.

From the pictures you posted, it seems like you are doing exactly that which leads me to believe it is a problem with your coloring rather than the lineart itself.

chappy888
07-30-2012, 04:01 AM
There are a few things you can do to help improve your lineart in Sai.

First, you can increase you stabilizer to make your lines less jittery and more smooth. The amount you want depends on your computer power and how fluid you need things to be. Too much and your computer runs slow (if it cant handle it) and too little and it looks jittery. I have mine set at 10.

The second thing you can do is add line weight. You can do this while drawing or afterwards. I would suggest you continue how you are now. Then make a new layer and add the weight you want. When you are done you can merge down. Doing it on a new layer allows you to delete it easy if you do not like it and keep what is below clean.

The other thing I do is to not use complete black for my lineart color. I use a darker gray but it stands out differently than black. Fortunately, you can just hit preserve opacity and color your lineart with different colors and see how that affects your outcome.

Lastly, when I finish coloring I set the opacity of the lineart down a little. It helps a little to let the colors show more than the lines.

After looking at the artist you posted in the first post, I think I know how that kind of lineart is created. I think he uses the pen tool in PS. Simple as that. The lines are black (so no gray or other colors), there is no line weight, and there is very little or no opacity take off of the lineart layer.

From the pictures you posted, it seems like you are doing exactly that which leads me to believe it is a problem with your coloring rather than the lineart itself.

About the weight part.The only thing I do not really know is which part do I have to weight.When I tried to weight on something I find it too hard to spot the part where I have to darken it.
Also, I understand about changing the lineart colour but why not I use black lineart ? I see some artist also shows some black lineart (without opacity or not grey) in the end result.

Demonfyre
07-30-2012, 08:21 AM
This may help you with your line weighting problems :) it did for me, albeit I use vectors rather than a pen tool.

http://tentopet.livejournal.com/12935.html

chappy888
08-03-2012, 01:24 PM
This may help you with your line weighting problems :) it did for me, albeit I use vectors rather than a pen tool.

http://tentopet.livejournal.com/12935.html

OAO ! Thank you.This might be helpful for doing manga.

Can you also give me tips about trying to hide the black lineart when doing colouring process ?
I wanted to do something like this
http://www.cosplayhouse.com/images/D/Little_Busters_Kudryavka_Noumi_wig_ver_01-1-03.jpg
But I am really more influence with this
http://www.zerochan.net/full/977966

Demonfyre
08-03-2012, 03:05 PM
With colouring I think it will just be a case of practicing over and over until you assume a style your happy with. What I like to do is I find pictures of colouring and shading etc and scrutinise it. For example in the style im trying to adapt the shading on the hair contrasts quite a lot from the base colour and is blurred only slightly with the base. Occasionally other tones are used as well, I believe this is cell shading but im probably wrong. Anyway my point is; study your influences and try to mimic them, with study and practice you should be able to adapt your own technique :) personally I like to have a picture on my phone open for quick referral if I get stuck but with each time I try it out the colouring comes out much better than previous :) you could also look about on deviantart for tutorials on cell shading, I believe that is the kinds colouring your looking for (if I'm wrong just disregard all I've said about cell shading)

As for your lineart question, do you mean to literally hide it, or do you want ways to make it stand out less so you can bring more attention to the colouring?

Hope this helped some more :)



Cell Shading Tutorial for SAI: http://ao-guu.deviantart.com/art/Cell-Shading-headshot-Tutorial-for-SAI-286852596, just found it quickly and haven't had a chance to look through it but there are plenty of others if this one isn't the one for you

chappy888
08-04-2012, 04:16 AM
With colouring I think it will just be a case of practicing over and over until you assume a style your happy with. What I like to do is I find pictures of colouring and shading etc and scrutinise it. For example in the style im trying to adapt the shading on the hair contrasts quite a lot from the base colour and is blurred only slightly with the base. Occasionally other tones are used as well, I believe this is cell shading but im probably wrong. Anyway my point is; study your influences and try to mimic them, with study and practice you should be able to adapt your own technique :) personally I like to have a picture on my phone open for quick referral if I get stuck but with each time I try it out the colouring comes out much better than previous :) you could also look about on deviantart for tutorials on cell shading, I believe that is the kinds colouring your looking for (if I'm wrong just disregard all I've said about cell shading)

As for your lineart question, do you mean to literally hide it, or do you want ways to make it stand out less so you can bring more attention to the colouring?

Hope this helped some more :)



Cell Shading Tutorial for SAI: http://ao-guu.deviantart.com/art/Cell-Shading-headshot-Tutorial-for-SAI-286852596, just found it quickly and haven't had a chance to look through it but there are plenty of others if this one isn't the one for you
Thx.I'll try to do that.
I mean like show some of the black lines at some parts (or outer parts)

Demonfyre
08-04-2012, 11:11 AM
Well again I think you should consider messing about with line weight and even erasing parts of the lines completely if you wanted too, also as previously suggested using a grey rather than a black may help, unfortunately I'm not so sure how to do what your wanting there, but that would be where I would start to try and reach the desired affect :)

Shadowsfade
08-05-2012, 08:03 AM
What lots of people tend to do who create the kind of work like your first link, is a bit of a mixture. They may erase some of the lines at certain bits where an outline isnt needed (eg the colour contrast is enough to create its own outline), they may have very thin lines so that you don't noticeably see it, so the colouring stands out more, but it's enough to create an "outline" (this also works similarly to making the lines a dark grey, as it makes the black less striking) and then they may change the colour of some of the lines to match the filling colour (ie for brown hair, changing the outlines to a slightly darker brown) so that it blends in more. Like demon said, study the pictures - in that first link you posted, you should be able to see most, if not all, of the different techniques I mentioned above.

It may also help, if you haven't done so already, to look up speedpaints / tutorials on youtube - sometimes you can see how people change their lineart. Lots of the time you'll be surprised that they've just done normal black lines, but with a small brush and big canvas so that you don't really notice the lines once it's coloured. Hope this helps!