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CypressDahlia
06-27-2012, 05:20 PM
I don't understand modern views on negative body image...

One thing I hear over and over is "every man/woman deserves to feel good about their body". And I agree. But why the hell does that involve having other people spoonfeed them compliments and lying to them? If a person is out of shape, I'm not obligated to tell them that they aren't. They don't "deserve" for me to lie to them just to save their ego. In fact, they are generally a detriment to their own health, so why shouldn't they feel bad about it?

If they want to feel good about their own body --regardless of how little care they take of it-- that's cool with me. Confidence is self-derived. But I don't understand why it's expected of other people to stroke their egos or to not tell them the obvious truth?

With that mentality, everyone "deserves" to feel good about everything. If I was shit at art, and never put any work into it, I still deserve to be treated to compliments and falsehoods about how amazing my work is. Likewise if a person is out of shape and has never bothered to do anything about it, clearly they deserve to be regarded the same as a person who has put time and effort into staying in shape.

I don't get it at all.

Celestial-Fox
06-27-2012, 05:34 PM
I think that being dissatisfied with your own body image is fine... Actually, it's rather normal. It's never unhealthy to not like your body if you're out of shape, etc, but it can go down a bad route depending on what you do with that. You can be either constructive or deconstructive with it.

But if people get you down about having an ugly facial structure or something that obviously is unchangeable (save for invasive surgery), then they're just being jerks. That's like if I were to rag on the lady down the street for not exercising as much as she should because she's been in a wheelchair for over a decade because of a medical condition. She swims when she can, but it's not like she can do much else about it.

Hayashida
06-27-2012, 05:37 PM
Because everyone is a special beautiful flower. No, but seriously, I agree with you Cypress. If someone genuinely looks good, and I don't mean whether or not they're in shape, more like how they dress and shit, I'll compliment them. Though someone's more likely to get a compliment from me if they're like a good person or whatever. I'm not gonna tell someone they're awesome if they're not.

CypressDahlia
06-27-2012, 05:39 PM
Yeah no doubt if you're ragging on someone for something they can't change, it's pretty much in the same spirit as racism. But being overweight is generally not something unchangeable.

I just hate this mentality that no matter how little effort you put into something, you "deserve" to feel good about yourself. Not all men have to be bodybuilders or metrosexuals, and not all women have to be a Hilton...but damn.

AlmanacnamedTime
06-27-2012, 05:53 PM
People just have different body types and need to get over the fake "supermodel" mentality. Until that happens... Well I've been doing about what you have (Cype, John) and I will continue to say "Dude, you should hit the gym. Your out of shape." when someone complains about lack of strength or endurance.

EDIT: to make it more clear, I'm not disparaging being fat and happy or trying to get fit, just people who talk a big game and then can't stop whining about how weak they are.

Hayashida
06-27-2012, 06:00 PM
If someone complains about being out of shape and doesn't do anything about it then I'll let them know what I think, but you know, if they actually do something about it I have nothing but respect for them and I'll encourage them

that being said, if someone's out of shape and doesn't complain about it and is totally fine with it or w/e, idgaf

CypressDahlia
06-27-2012, 06:10 PM
Yep. If a person is fat and happy, that's cool. I have plenty of friends who are happy with being overweight. I just don't like being snapped at for making plain-sight observations. "FAT" isn't a judgment, it's an adjective. And under no circumstance should I be expected to lie to someone about their fatness just to help them feel good about themselves.

And dude if you lack strength and endurance I would actually recommend either you swim or you learn how to breakdance lol.

indescribable
06-27-2012, 07:26 PM
"Fat" as an adjective is a judgement, in my opinion. I have heard several people be called fat who are not even close to being overweight. Generally, "overweight" is a term meaning "over a 'normal' healthy weight". "Fat" just seems to be whatever someone decides is not skinny enough. Not to mention that not everyone who appears fat is actually unhealthy.

While I don't believe in giving people false compliments, I also don't believe that you should go around making unwanted "observations". People don't need you to point out their insecurities for them.

CypressDahlia
06-27-2012, 07:53 PM
Fat is not a judgment, though. It is an observation based entirely on quantifiable factors. There are no assumptions being made, merely stating what one sees. That's like saying "red" is a judgment. And yeah, we can spend all day stating exceptions to the rule but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of out of shape people are unhealthy. And pinpointing small exceptions here and there doesn't do anything but provide false cover. In America it is a HUGE issue.

And TBH, people do need their insecurities pointed out to them. That's how people become better people. Most of us know our own character flaws, but probably won't do shit about them until someone points them out. It's human nature to avoid fixing what we don't perceive to be broken.

indescribable
06-27-2012, 08:04 PM
Calling someone fat is what you do after making a judgement about someone based on your perceptions, which could very well be mistaken or otherwise. If you truly wish to help someone become a better person, there are much better ways of going about it than calling someone fat. Constructive criticism, guys, come on.

Celestial-Fox
06-27-2012, 08:07 PM
Weight does not and never will definitely imply lifestyle—hence, a judgement.

jubeh
06-27-2012, 10:51 PM
It bothers me more when people try to avoid even saying the word fat around me its like why are you walking on egg-shells I'm a big boy now and I make big boy decisions.

Celestial-Fox
06-27-2012, 11:24 PM
Fat is a description, not an insult. I hate when people say "big boned" and other bizarre things to talk about fatness. Watching them avoid it is super awkward.

Outcast
06-27-2012, 11:30 PM
Huh never really held back on that.
Actually as a child I really pissed off one of my foster parents when I walked up to an obese lady and called her fat.

jubeh
06-27-2012, 11:32 PM
Probably because walking up to people and randomly pointing out their flaws completely unprovoked kind of means you were socially retarded.

Edit: I mean all kids are but you sound like you didn't think that was an odd thing at all

Outcast
06-27-2012, 11:41 PM
It was the first time I ever saw an obese person if that helps.



I'm horrible with people anyway.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 12:17 AM
Taylour, I'm thinking that we're just using the word "judgment" differently here. I'm talking about a judgment of character. If you are making logical judgments based on visual cues, I don't see anything wrong with that? If I said "this car is yellow" because it is in fact a car and it is in fact yellow, can I be vilified for that? It might be a little more orange, or a little more red. Who knows. I think it's yellow. By that logic everything is a judgment, but that completely strips "judgment" of its negative connotation. So if you wanna use it that way I don't see anything wrong with making "judgments".

But yeah obviously I'm not saying go around calling all the fat people you know "fat" to try to make them lose weight. I just don't understand why people are so afraid of the word, since it's such an obvious problem in America.

and Seefy, yes. That's true. Weight is not a definite indicator of lifestyle...but like I said we could go around pointing out all of the tiny exceptions all day. It doesn't change the fact that the general trend is that weight is the result of an unhealthy lifestyle (and we're talking "obesity", not just "overweight"). I mean, all demographic data is based on trends, not absolute facts. But it's data nonetheless, and does present us with a general understanding of what the issue is. In other words, it is still the logical deduction to make. I don't see the point in avoiding making a logical deduction for the sake of preserving someone's ego. For example: smoking is another unhealthy habit, which is generally an indicator of nicotine addiction.

But if doctors, family members and peers go around saying, "The logical deduction to make is that my friend is addicted to nicotine and needs help for his own sake, yet it's 'judgmental' to assume that, so I will remain silent under the assumption that maybe he's not really addicted, or that he smokes to relieve stress, or that he only smokes socially--" or a plethora of other common excuses. Then nicotine addicts would never get any help because people are afraid of making logical deductions! You know what I mean?

Besides, assuming someone has a glandular problem or something is just as much a judgment as assuming they're lazy. The latter is just less convenient for them.

Hayashida
06-28-2012, 12:23 AM
I don't understand why people have to use euphemisms for so many words nowadays. Fat shouldn't be an insulting thing, it's just a word that describes a person's appearance. If I have to describe someone that's fat, I'm not going to say "ooh, they're a bit on the heavy side". I'm just going to say they're fat. People give me weird looks as if this is some completely foreign thing to do, but I don't mean it in any kind of malicious way. I'm just describing a person. It's the same as saying someone's tall or short.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 01:18 AM
I think the massive taboo against calling people fat arose from the fact that people who are genuinely not that over weight, or are a normal healthy weight were getting called out for it, and being called fat because they still were not as thin as people portrayed in the media. This happened to a friend of mine and she is still struggling with an eating disorder 5 years down the track. The whole problem with body image seems to be that its about the image. Its about how you look, not whether or not you are healthy. When people say someone is fat, it is rarely just an observation of their physical appearance, or out of concern for their health. Instead its a remark that implies that that person is ugly, or inferior because of their weight.
Because of that its become this big deal to say it to or about someone, because to a lot of people being called fat feels the same as being called ugly and any number of other negative connotations the word has picked up. I wish it wasn't like that now though because obesity is such a big health issue, and I myself have found it hard to admit there is a problem with my weight, and harder still to do something about it because I don't want to admit being 'fat'. It seems like everyone is swinging from one extreme, 'everyone who is fat is horrible and should be ridiculed' to 'we aren't allowed to call anyone fat because they will feel bad' when really we should be looking at it from a supportive standpoint so that people who are unhappy with being over a healthy weight can actually talk about it and work on it openly without people either tell them they don't have a weight issue or making fun of them over it.

Hayashida
06-28-2012, 02:37 AM
If you're obese and upset about it you can do something about it though; if you're ugly you can't.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 03:01 AM
Like I said. Confidence is a self-derived thing. I have no issues with people being fat and happy. I just don't understand why they expect others to coddle them about it. Nobody is required to help you be confident in yourself. So the idea that it's expected for me to avoid using the word "fat", or avoid mentioning a person's weight for no reason other than to facilitate their ego bothers me, because it's neither an insult nor a judgment, merely an observation.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 03:03 AM
Hmm, yes thank you captain obvious. My point is that when people are making fun of someone for being fat they are implying more than that the person is just fat. They can be implying that the person is lazy, inferior, ugly etc just through that comment. Sometimes people who have weight problems can even start to think those things when no one is implying them. It's this rather than the actual weight problem that makes it difficult to deal with. Do you disagree?

EDIT: This was directed at Haya, not you cyp

Hayashida
06-28-2012, 03:07 AM
So are you saying you can't call a fat person fat? Because yeah, some people are going to be malicious about it, but you can be malicious about like every adjective.

jubeh
06-28-2012, 03:08 AM
Like I said. Confidence is a self-derived thing. I have no issues with people being fat and happy. I just don't understand why they expect others to coddle them about it. Nobody is required to help you be confident in yourself. So the idea that it's expected for me to avoid using the word "fat", or avoid mentioning a person's weight for no reason other than to facilitate their ego bothers me, because it's neither an insult nor a judgment, merely an observation.

What's going on here. Who did you call fat that told you not to call them that.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 03:15 AM
I'm saying that the taboo surrounding it as arisen because people do use comments about weight maliciously and it does have a serious negative effect. In my opinion at least, its gotten to a point where even when the intentions are not malicious those who are uncomfortable with their bodies will find it upsetting: simply because its difficult to think of being overweight without also thinking of the negative connotations that come from people using it maliciously in the past. I'm not saying that you should tip toe around the issue, but I am saying there is a valid reason why people get upset about it.
But hey, when is it ever polite to make point blank observations about people? The only times it's really necessary to say anything about someone's appearance is when you want to compliment them or when you are concerned about them, or maybe if you were describing a person (but then you wouldn't be saying to the person you are describing anyway).

Hayashida
06-28-2012, 03:19 AM
People get offended by it because they don't have self confidence. And it's not polite to make observations about people you don't know, but it's fine with people you know imo. You wouldn't go up to someone random on the street and be like "hey what the hell are you wearing today, you look like crap." If one of your good friends was wearing something ridiculous though you could say that to them. I think that's part of being a good person, don't you think so? If someone looks bad, you shouldn't tell them they look okay because that's lying to them and shows you don't have a lot of integrity. There's being straight up rude to someone and there's being honest with someone.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 03:26 AM
Yeah I agree with you on that count, but even with friends it can be a sensitive issue. With something like an outfit they probably just put it on that day so you pointing it out is an example of being a good friend and helping them out. I would disagree that randomly pointing out a friend's weight problem is helpful though. They have to buy big sized clothes and look at their bodies and know how much they weigh so I'm sure they are already know they are fat. I'm not sure what purpose simply reminding them of that is going to serve beyond teasing them. If you are talking about being more constructive like maybe suggesting they eat something healthier because they are fat or offering to go jogging with them that's a different matter.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 03:53 AM
Jubeh: I didn't call anyone fat. This is something I picked up from one of those "everyone deserves to feel beautiful" facebook statuses.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 03:56 AM
Just to be clear, I agree they you shouldn't have to compliment people on their appearance when they do have a weight issue and I completely agree that people have to work on their appearance if they want others to say they look great. I just don't see any reason to do the opposite and point out obesity as an issue in most situations.

jubeh
06-28-2012, 03:57 AM
Yeah thats ridiculous unless that person was fat then that doesn't justify


I have no issues with people being fat and happy. I just don't understand why they expect others to coddle them about it. Nobody is required to help you be confident in yourself.

Its almost scary how you've painted all fat people as insecure whiny babies. Who are you even talking about here.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 03:59 AM
That generally seems to be the case with the defensive ones. Considering the general response is that they deserve to feel good about themselves (especially women), and somehow my observation is meant to facilitate that. And if it doesn't, I'm somehow being judgmental.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 04:04 AM
Why do you feel the need to point out something so obvious though? How would you expect people to react if you point out that they are overweight?

Hayashida
06-28-2012, 04:06 AM
nobody's feeling the need to point it out, I think everyone's point is just that if it's pointed out people shouldn't get super offended by it. And like James said, not every fat person is gonna cry about it.

jubeh
06-28-2012, 04:06 AM
That generally seems to be the case with the defensive ones. Considering the general response is that they deserve to feel good about themselves (especially women), and somehow my observation is meant to facilitate that. And if it doesn't, I'm somehow being judgmental.

This is just...what?

You always do this. Who are we talking about? Who is being defensive about you calling people fat?

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 04:07 AM
I don't feel the need to. I just don't know why I have to be so careful about it.

Jubeh: I dunno man I think I'm being pretty clear. People who respond defensively to statements about their weight typically refer to that statement. I'm saying that statement is B.S.

jubeh
06-28-2012, 04:08 AM
You don't have to. Who is stopping you?

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 04:10 AM
People who respond defensively to statements about their weight


^^^^^^

Hayashida
06-28-2012, 04:11 AM
They're physically stopping you?

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 04:12 AM
Yeah, because they're so fat they just sit on his face to stop him talking.

jubeh
06-28-2012, 04:14 AM
Yeah who gives a shit about them? You feel like you're being oppressed or something? This is such a non-issue that its crazy. If they weren't insecure about their weight it would be something else. Your problem is with insecure people not fatties. While a lot of fat people may be insecure they are not synonymous.

If anything this is like the most minor inconvenience ever. Awww man can't call people fat.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 04:14 AM
I don't think matters of social etiquette often boil down to whether or not someone is physically stopping you. It's rather whether or not you'll get lambasted by fat people and their skinny white knights just for making an obvious statement.

And yeah it is a non-issue, but not something that can't be discussed. Rarely are any issues discussed in the GD things we're actively pushing to change in our everyday lives, or even doing anything about. We just talk about the ideas behind it. Unwarranted social expectations are one of these things.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 04:19 AM
Its fairly rude to make any sort of comment about a permanent/semi permanent problem with someone's appearance. Sure weight can be managed but its not like the person can go straight home and halve their body weight as easily as they can fix a bad makeup job. Its rude because its not something that people can do anything about immediately, even if they are currently on some sort of plan to reduce their body weight the response is to get defensive because there is not a lot else available to do in response to that type of criticism, constructive or otherwise. Hence why I asked how you expect people to respond to such comments.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 04:24 AM
I expect people to say they're trying, at least. Or if not, just tell me they don't care. They're either trying to fix it or they're perfectly content with it. But what I get are people who are neither trying to fix it nor are they content with it. In other words: they're total hedgehogs. They have an obvious issue with their weight, but don't care to fix it, yet don't like other people pointing it out.

And I don't understand why it's automatically assumed that "fat" is criticism? It's an objective statement, for the most part. I'm overweight myself (but not out of shape), so I don't mind being called overweight or telling people I'm overweight. Why should I accompany a simple observation with a rationale? I can't just say something is what something is?

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 04:35 AM
Commenting on someone's weight isn't the same as just saying 'that rock is a rock'. Being overweight is considered bad because it is often a sign of being unhealthy and no one likes their flaws being pointed out. I too have an issue with my weight and my current response if someone pointed it out would be I'm working on it' but only as of a week ago. Prior to that I would be what you fondly refer to as a 'total hedgehog'. So I'm going to talk about my personal experience here, the reason why I wasn't doing anything/find it hard to do anything is pretty straight forward. I just feel horribly self conscious when ever I exercise. Maybe the reason so many of these 'hedgehogs' get so defensive is that, like me, they find that their problems with their self esteem make it difficult to do something about their weight. People are simply trying to find the self confidence to act on their desires and someone pointing out that they are fat does nothing to help motivate them. You don't have to compliment people, just don't bull doze their self esteem by pointing out flaws they are already aware of. If people are saying they deserve to feel good about themselves, but you also know they are unhappy with their weight then its safe to assume they just want to feel ok enough with their bodies to go jogging or to the gym so they can get in better shape.

jubeh
06-28-2012, 04:42 AM
Unwarranted social expectations are one of these things.

I find in most social situations that what is unwarranted or not depends a lot on context. There are obvious exceptions like racism and whatnot, but for the most part every situation is different.

Like you're not going to join a party find the fattest person in the room and ask them what their weight loss plan is. In that context not only do you seem crazy, (unless maybe you are like a personal trainer looking for work) but you're disrupting the mood of the room. This has nothing to do with talking to fat people either it could be applied to walking up to a guy you hate and being like hey I notice you mispronounce words a lot.

I don't fight or ever want to or even really find it all that glamorous so I tend to talk and one of the most important things in a situation where you are trying to dish out enough mental harassment to diffuse a situation is to simply have the crowd on your side. If its not cool with them then its not cool period. If they think calling somebody fat is uncool that sucks for you but hey this happens for a lot of stuff. I know people that get upset if I use the word hell or if I correct them on stuff. Social acceptance is not global.


I expect people to say they're trying, at least. Or if not, just tell me they don't care. They're either trying to fix it or they're perfectly content with it. But what I get are people who are neither trying to fix it nor are they content with it. In other words: they're total hedgehogs. They have an obvious issue with their weight, but don't care to fix it, yet don't like other people pointing it out.

Thats not even really your business though that seems like a weird thing to ever ask anybody.

toast
06-28-2012, 04:54 AM
It's not really hard to understand. I think people just dislike getting out of their comfort zone. Like, going from not doing any proper physical activity to a 30 minute workout 5 days a week is pretty much out of one's comfort zone, and it just takes a lot of motivation to adapt to. Some people don't find enough motivation.

Maybe people enable those unwilling to change so much, that in the end they don't have any motivation to even try, despite wanting to. Why walk to the gym to try and lose weight when you can sit here, eat, and watch TV in a more relaxing environment? Or, why deal with Nicotine withdrawals when you can just continue smoking and doing what you want to do? Stuff like that. Obviously some people can find motivation on their own terms, but I think friends and family plays the biggest role.

Also there's nothing wrong with keeping a self conscious person's self esteem up. No one wants their flaws being pointed out, it's not just fat people. If I was 300 pounds, I'd rather hear "you're pretty" than "you're fat as hell and you should go to the gym".

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 04:56 AM
toast, exactly what I was wanting to get at.

GunZet
06-28-2012, 05:15 AM
I gotta agree with the Toaster here. Plus sometimes it's best to just tell a little white lie to keep from totally crushing a person, especially the sensitive ones. Now it's completely fine to crush them if they keep babbling on about a certain way they are, but are willing to do nothing but complain.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 05:29 AM
jubeh: I don't really ask anyone those questions. She asked how I expected people to respond.

and toast, yeah, I get what you're saying. It's hard for them. It's pretty hard for a lot of people to stay in shape. Staying in shape entails work. I just don't see how that becomes a rationalization, though? "Aw, don't call him fat, he's just lazy an insecure." That isn't necessary better?

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 05:50 AM
see, now you are just saying that fat people are so because they are lazy, and that its ok to make already insecure people feel worse by pointing out flaws they are already aware of. Someone who is overweight isn't always going to be so because they are lazy and you have no reason to further beat down people who are already insecure. So yeah, it is a rationalization

Kodos
06-28-2012, 05:56 AM
As a flawless adonis I, too, often find myself disgusted and revolted by the hideous fatties and their disgusting lies. How dare they decide that there are some things which may be more important than meeting a standard for physical beauty and health which I have set for them. Their selfishness is nearly as offensive as their grotesque, mishapen, bodies.

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 06:08 AM
Fat is not a judgment, though. It is an observation based entirely on quantifiable factors. There are no assumptions being made, merely stating what one sees. That's like saying "red" is a judgment.

What makes a colour 'red' rather than 'rouge'? Are the colours 'red' and 'rouge' the same thing, or are they an approximation of one another? In other words, does the language the person labelling a particular portion of their sense-data 'red' speaks structure what they perceive as red? I often perceive colours as purple that others perceive as blue. Is one of us right and the other wrong? Or could it possibly be that even labels as seemingly obvious as 'red' are subjective?

Let me extrapolate this to the label 'fat'. Let's assume the label 'fat' refers to 'above the weight which I see as the maximum acceptable'. Now, in many arabic countries, heavier women are seen as more attractive: high weight signifies wealth and having enough to eat. 'Fat' in these countries is thus seen as a lot heavier than the western 'fat', at least for women. Indeed, the idea of a socially-acceptable weight is tied to power and wealth - until it became easy for us to feed ourselves sufficiently in the west, we also saw larger women as more attractive. Now that it's harder to be slim than fat in the west (healthy food is more expensive than mass-produced fatty foods), we see slimness as more attractive. How on earth can you claim fatness is objective if there's such a variation in cultural perception of it? And how on earth can you justify 'calling people out' on being fat if fatness is a product of your own mind?

"You don't live up to my standards, you fat bastard."

It shows your bigotry more than it shows any problem with the person you're criticising.

Kodos
06-28-2012, 07:46 AM
I'd also like to add that, being a perfect and flawless being, I am greatly saddened and angered by the inability to simply tell people what I think of them, manners be damned. Why is it I can no longer tell ugly people they are ugly? What is this bullshit. Just the other day people said I was rude for stopping a mentally handicapped man on the street and calling him stupid. What is the world come to?

Black_Shaggie
06-28-2012, 10:18 AM
ehh...I was going to say something prolithic but...ehh...never mind.

Linz
06-28-2012, 11:22 AM
Kodos, I will bear your children and you shall LIKE IT. <3

Celestial-Fox
06-28-2012, 12:20 PM
Jeez, what even is this thread.

Hey, people. Stop policing people's bodies if they didn't ask for your opinion. It really is that simple.

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 12:22 PM
Because people love to feel better about themselves by victimising others. Sadism itt

Celestial-Fox
06-28-2012, 12:24 PM
Basically. Like goodness, who made relatively skinnier people the authorities on health and fatness. How glorious to be bestowed such epistemological intuition!

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 12:28 PM
Yeah guys, fat people are evil. It's not like obesity is linked with depression and poverty or anything.

Celestial-Fox
06-28-2012, 12:32 PM
~* kyriarchy *~

Fatness isn't always the decision to eat bad, like you said. Once upon a time my family was so poor (in the most expensive state to afford food in) that they existed on the McDonald's dollar menu, ramen, and Kraft macaroni and cheese.

Criticize my parents for their choices, I dare you. Yeah, they were privileged enough to make it out and not be obese, but some people aren't as fortunate.

indescribable
06-28-2012, 12:35 PM
Let's just start calling thin people scrawny and gaunt and make them eat more.

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 12:39 PM
Won't happen; cheap food makes people fat, not thin. So you'd be saying the people who hold the most power (middle/upper classes) were in the wrong if you said that thin people were scrawny. Food that tastes good is also healthier than cheap food.

The powerful make the less powerful do what they want them to. What a revelation.

Celestial-Fox
06-28-2012, 12:42 PM
One time a 400 pound man tried to rag on me by noting that I was 175 pounds. But I lost weight due to what was probably depression. I ask people now to think back to the time where I weighed that much, and they hold that I was never fat. When I tell them how much I weighed, they didn't believe it because my body accommodates weight better—I've never been "fat."

No surprise, though, that his daughter now is struggling with body image; she's skinny but wants to lose even more weight to make her parents happy. She said that they told her she looks pregnant, which is not even close to true.

What do people think they even accomplish by calling others fat? What is the end goal? It truly is pointless; I'll tell you that.

indescribable
06-28-2012, 12:46 PM
Hey that reminds me -- did you guys know that models who are size six are plus-size models? Just goes to show how relative the idea of "fat" is.

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 12:47 PM
Like I said, sadism. It makes people who lack power feel better about themselves to see others victimised. This is probably why far-right political parties tend to be more influential in times of economic depression, and probably accounts for the popularity of 'those dayum immigrants'.

Celestial-Fox
06-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Hey that reminds me -- did you guys know that models who are size six are plus-size models? Just goes to show how relative the idea of "fat" is.

I actually knew that. For some places, it's size 8, though.

But whatever; I'm size 12 and am sometimes too big to fit into an XL. I don't look it, but it doesn't matter. Clothing companies blindly call me plus sized because of the lettered/numbered tags on my clothing. I don't think there should be such a thing as "plus sizes"—who decides that your size is "normalcy plus something extra"? All sizes should just be "sizes."

Linz
06-28-2012, 12:57 PM
PEOPLE. ANOREXIA. It's more socially acceptable!

Celestial-Fox
06-28-2012, 01:03 PM
I hate how people think that thinness implies healthiness. We glorify skinniness to the point where if you have an eating disorder and are skinny (but watch out; don't be TOO skinny, now!), we don't say much about it. If someone is naturally skinny and doesn't go to the gym, we sit around and say, "You're sooooo lucky," instead of saying "Yo, maybe you should hit the gym, dude..."

But they have the same lifestyles. Somehow someone is doing a fat person a favor when telling them to hit the gym and just being critical of skinny people when you tell them the same thing. Even though they have the same lifestyles, how come it's "looking out" for fat people and "being annoying" to skinny people (because, lol, if your skinny, you don't need the gym because you're already skinny and don't need it).

GunZet
06-28-2012, 01:04 PM
You can't do jack squat with a skeleton. Unless you like it like that. Closer to the raw materials I guess.

indescribable
06-28-2012, 02:00 PM
That actually makes me think of this, Seef.

Getting Beyond Thin

As Betty Kroeker learned, there is so much more to life than a dress size.

By Marianne Jones

Betty Kroeker loves to tell people what she does for a living. The size-24 Canadian gets a big kick out of watching their eyes widen when she reveals she's a top-level fitness instructor.
"My appearance doesn't fit most people's idea of what an aerobics instructor looks like," she says. "But the idea perpetuated by the media - that the perfect body must be thin - creates prisons in our minds that drive us either to develop eating disorders or to give up."
Kroeker, 48, has taught aerobics for more than nine years. In addition to leading eight fitness classes each week, she's a personal trainer and gives motivational talks to health and weight-management organisations.
She could be the poster girl for emerging research suggesting it's better to be fat and fit than thin and sedentary for overall health and longevity.
Indeed, a study published in 1999 in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that unfit lean men had a higher risk of dying prematurely than men who were fit and obese.
A similar study of women published in the Obesity Research journal in June 2002 had much the same results. The study's authors concluded that "low cardiorespiratory fitness is a stronger predictor than body mass index of mortality in women."

Kroeker is an inspiration for the countless people who are too ashamed of their weight to take that first step towards physical activity. She wants them to know what a transforming experience being fit can be.
Everything about Kroeker exudes enthusiasm and energy. It's hard to believe that 12 years ago, at nearly 130 kilos (285 lbs), she felt depressed and defeated by her size. She was unable to get out of bed or climb stairs without getting shooting pains up her legs or becoming red-faced and breathless. She stayed being when her husband and children went for walks.
With a family history of weight problems, Kroeker has never been svelte. But after her third child, her weight started spiralling out of control. She was miserable. Then, in June 1995, Kroeker ran into an old friend who had lost 18 kilos (40 lbs) through aerobics training. That summer Kroeker struggled to find the courage to join an exercise group.
In September the same friend told her about an aerobics class for larger women - there was one opening left. That was the push she needed. But there were still a few hurdles to overcome: One was exposing her less-than-firm body. "I learned they don't make work-out clothes for big women," she says. "All I found was a pea-green tracksuit that made me look like the Jolly Green Giant."
And actually getting to that first class was tough. Kroeker sat in the car park for ten minutes, telling herself that if the instructor looked like Barbie in a G-string, she was out of there. "I felt that I had no right to be there, that an alarm would go off as soon as I walked through the door."
Her fears that all the "athletic" people in the class would ridicule her were put to rest. "Everyone in the room looked like me," she says. Even the instructor, Lisa Moore, was a large woman who immediately made everyone feel at ease.
Not being used to that much physical activity, Kroeker found the first class difficult - "The first ten minutes, I thought I was going to die" - but she managed to get through it. And it marked a turning point for her. "By the time I got home that night, I felt I had accomplished something major - and not just the physical part," she says. The biggest battle had been the one in her head, to go for it despite her fears of failure or ridicule.
It wasn't long before Kroeker was hooked. She enjoyed moving to the music and grew more confident as she lost weight and gained strength and energy. After attending the classes for a year, she lost 18 kilos (40 lbs), her cardiovascular endurance improved, her resting heart rate dropped from the mid- to high-70s to a healthier 69, and she was sleeping better. "I got my life back," she says.
Moore suggested Kroeker become a fitness instructor herself. Kroeker laughed the idea off. But with the gentle prodding of her husband and Moore, she decided to pursue it.

In no time Kroeker was loving every minute of it. She passed the course and was soon leading ten-minute spots in Moore's introductory class. Participants were encouraged by her example and enjoyed her lively routines.
Before long, she was teaching five mornings a week - moderate floor and step aerobic as well as an introductory class. At first, not everyone took her seriously as a fitness leader. "One time I was filling in for another instructor. One man took a look at me and sneered, 'We're used to a high-intensity work-out in this class.'"
"I said, 'You got it!' and gave them my toughest routines. After that no-one questioned my ability to set the pace."
Kroeker didn't stop there. She added weight training to her repertoire and was in greater demand as an instructor. Larger women who used to be too intimidated by their weight to go to a gym were clamouring for her class.
But Kroeker wanted to reach more overweight and unfit people who were too embarrassed to join a gym - by bringing the exercise classes to them. She enrolled in a course to become a personal trainer.
She also enrolled in another programme to become a lifestyle and weight-management consultant, which would allow her to offer group and individual counselling sessions on fitness and nutrition issues.
Kroeker still strives to manage her weight and pay attention to her diet. But at the same time, she refuses to be obsessed about weight or to measure her value by dress size. "So many people spend their lives waiting," she says. "They tell themselves they'll start living when they lose all their excess weight. They imagine life will be perfect when they're thin.. You know what? It won't. Life will still have its problems - whether we're thin or fat."
Those who know Kroeker agree - she is one person who will never put life on hold again.

Do we put too much emphasis on size?

Kodos
06-28-2012, 02:55 PM
Because people love to feel better about themselves by victimising others. Sadism itt
I don't even think it's sadism. I honestly think it's just insane egotism. "I have set standards for what I expect other people to look like, and you have the audacity to defy them."

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 04:53 PM
see, now you are just saying that fat people are so because they are lazy...

No, Toast used that as an example and I questioned why that qualified being out of shape? "I'm too lazy" rarely qualifies anything, IRL. It's worse because nobody is telling these people to lose weight. If they're happy being that way, nobody is going to question it. But many overweight people aren't happy with themselves and want others to be ultra-sensitive about it, yet they try to rationalize not fixing it. So why should laziness qualify it? Like I said, that's just being a total hedgehog.

Like: "my car muffler is broken. Nobody seems to really mind...but I mind. It's loud and it annoys me. But I'm too lazy to fix it...but I swear if anyone says anything about my muffler I'll throw a fit."

Like do you want to fix it or not? If you don't, stop obligating other people to social platitudes. If you do...well, FIX IT.


"You don't live up to my standards, you fat bastard."

Yeah I totally said that. Also using horribly off-base judgments as a counter argument to being judgmental.


I have no issues with people being fat and happy. I just don't understand why they expect others to coddle them about it. Nobody is required to help you be confident in yourself. So the idea that it's expected for me to avoid using the word "fat", or avoid mentioning a person's weight for no reason other than to facilitate their ego bothers me, because it's neither an insult nor a judgment, merely an observation.

C'mon nowwwww~ And unlike "stupid" and "ugly", Kodos. Overweight, obese and "out of shape" have clinical definitions. Doctors will tell you these things. Health professionals will tell you these things. Personal trainers will tell you these things. So pretending like fitness is some standard made up on the fly by bigoted individuals is a horrible argument. Further worsened by the undeniable fact that America has an obesity problem--not an "overweight" problem, but an obesity problem. So let's just pretend like that isn't a problem and the doctors and health officials who tell these people that maybe they're endangering their own health are just total assholes with Adonis complexes.

This thread has become a great example of itself.

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 05:24 PM
Yeah I totally said that. Also using horribly off-base judgments as a counter argument to being judgmental.

I love how you don't engage with my actual argument but call me out on a throwaway line that bears little relevance to the substance of my post. Nice.


Overweight, obese and "out of shape" have clinical definitions.

Which you weren't using. You used the term 'fat' and chortled on about how much you love to show a total lack of tact to overweight people. Don't characterise those who oppose you as weak-willed liberals because they disagree with you.

Hey, you know some other things that have very clear definitions? 'Psychopath', 'hypocrisy', 'avoidance', and 'rationalisation'.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 05:46 PM
I love how you don't engage with my actual argument but call me out on a throwaway line that bears little relevance to the substance of my post. Nice.

Actually I quoted you something I said pages back that directly contradicted your assertion lol.


Which you weren't using.


I don't understand modern views on negative body image...

One thing I hear over and over is "every man/woman deserves to feel good about their body". And I agree. But why the hell does that involve having other people spoonfeed them compliments and lying to them? If a person is out of shape, I'm not obligated to tell them that they aren't.

Are you even being serious right now? That's the FIRST post in the whole thread.


You used the term 'fat' and chortled on about how much you love to show a total lack of tact to overweight people.

I don't ever recall saying I enjoyed calling people "fat". At this point I'm convinced that you're just being facetious.

Superdooperphailmachine
06-28-2012, 05:53 PM
If you don't look like this;
http://i.imgur.com/ALFTg.jpg
Then hit the Gym fatty.

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 06:05 PM
I don't ever recall saying I enjoyed calling people "fat". At this point I'm convinced that you're just being facetious.


I just don't understand why they expect others to coddle them about it. Nobody is required to help you be confident in yourself. So the idea that it's expected for me to avoid using the word "fat", or avoid mentioning a person's weight for no reason other than to facilitate their ego bothers me, because it's neither an insult nor a judgment, merely an observation.

Pay attention to the second part of your own post, which you quoted just now, for the love of God. In addition, the entire argument of the post I made was pointing out why you shouldn't call people fat, because it's imposing your judgement of their weight on them. Why do we even have to go through this? It's like Morals 101 - Why the school bully is a bad boy.

The reason that calling someone fat is inherently judgemental is because your perception of 'fat' is not objective. Your idea of average/ideal weight is subjective. So calling someone fat implies that you disapprove of them, because it implies their weight is higher than the weight you find acceptable. I don't particularly care if your definition of 'fat' means the same thing as 'clinically overweight'; to most people 'fat' implies a certain level of disapprobation. It's like if you started claiming racist phrases just referred to an OBJECTIVE skin colour. Okay, fine, it means that to you. But don't be surprised if someone decides to kick your ass.

In addition who the fuck expects you to 'spoonfeed them compliments'? Since when did mentioning people's weight even play a part in conversation? Is this some sort of bizaaro strawman? It would be a strange situation indeed where people were busy obsessing about their weight and expected you to lie to them and tell them they were skinny, which makes me suspect that the entire scene is contrived for you to defend your hatred of people who don't conform to what you think they should look like.

Every time you make a thread in GD it's characterised by the same things. Bad arguments, you claiming that your opinion is the one TRUE and HONEST opinion to hold, totally fantastic scenarios, strawmen, and lack of empathy.

indescribable
06-28-2012, 06:09 PM
If you don't look like this;
http://i.imgur.com/ALFTg.jpg
Then hit the Gym fatty.
I dunno, that guy still looks pretty fat to me.

Delphinus
06-28-2012, 06:11 PM
Yeah, you'd better look like this or go to hell fatty

http://www.cultureblues.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/the-machinist-skinny.jpg

ClockHand
06-28-2012, 06:17 PM
If you don't look like this;
http://i.imgur.com/ALFTg.jpg
Then hit the Gym fatty.

My dick is not that small, even if its cold. What do I do?

Evil_Cake
06-28-2012, 06:20 PM
scissors

Superdooperphailmachine
06-28-2012, 06:21 PM
Cut your gangly, hideous, flopping penis down to size.

ClockHand
06-28-2012, 06:24 PM
to lazy to be perfect.

Superdooperphailmachine
06-28-2012, 06:27 PM
This is you.
http://i.imgur.com/fkWL1.jpg

ClockHand
06-28-2012, 06:39 PM
Thanks.

Hayashida
06-28-2012, 07:39 PM
stay on topic

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 08:35 PM
No, Toast used that as an example and I questioned why that qualified being out of shape? "I'm too lazy" rarely qualifies anything, IRL.



No one actually said it was out of laziness except for you. Toast and I were trying to point out that getting in to a routine of exercise can be an extremely discomforting experience, especially if you have very low self esteem due to your awareness of a weight problem. This is not the same as being lazy, this involves fear and shame and embarrassment. You're trying to totally over simplify all of these negative feelings by calling people who experience them 'lazy'. This is completely ridiculous. Someone who is overweight may not even BE lazy. What if they spend all their time practicing drawing or work 12 hour shifts as a chief? Is that lazy? As you have already pointed out you don't even have to be thin to be physically fit. So I don't really understand why you keep trying to make out like anyone is saying obesity means people are lazy. No one said leave them alone because they are fat. They said be supportive of them because it is much less simple than 'get fit' or 'do not get fit.' Stop trying to over simplify a complex issue.

Afrobit
06-28-2012, 08:56 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnqdx5bmtA1qzado8o1_500.jpg

In all honestly, I personally think what is supposed to be the 'right' and 'healthy' size is so distorted and mixed up that we don't know anymore. : / (example being how what is skinny or fat is different on so many levels.)

I think you shouldn't be down on yourself, but you should try to strive for a healthier you. (Working out, eating balanced diet, etc.) Body image should not be about hating yourself, but being aware what you can do to help improve your overall life. (in my opinion anyways.)

ClockHand
06-28-2012, 09:37 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qe2ppLPoi5k/T5HWBX7yyYI/AAAAAAAAGVo/t9Xghff2L5Y/s1600/botero1.jpg

toast
06-28-2012, 09:53 PM
I like how all of you totally misconstrued cyp's argument, and boiled everything down to "OMG HE SAID FAT PEOPLE ARE LAZY!!!!!"

I'm pretty sure all he was saying is that he doesn't agree with sugarcoating words.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 10:02 PM
He's saying he doesn't agree with sugarcoating words because he seems to think that anyone who is overweight and unhappy about shouldn't get offended when he calls them fat. Is there anyone who doesn't get offended when people blatantly point out their physical forms for no reason? I don't understand how you can expect someone to not get defensive if you call them out on an issue they already feel terrible about.
Whats more the reason Cyp says he should be allowed to call fat people fat is that they haven't done anything to not be fat. Simply the fact that they are fat and not trying not to be makes cyp think he has the right to call them out on it and then not have them get defensive.

CypressDahlia
06-28-2012, 10:16 PM
No one actually said it was out of laziness except for you.

Actually...


Why walk to the gym to try and lose weight when you can sit here, eat, and watch TV in a more relaxing environment?

Actually, that's exactly what she was saying. People are stuck in their comfort zones, or in other words, unwilling to put in effort. The rest of the stuff you're saying, I don't even know what you're getting at, really. And no, I never said being thin means being physically fit. Quote me, please. Quote me when I said that. I said being fat is generally observed with being out of shape (medically and diagnostically, not just based on split second judgments). You are just filling in the blanks by yourself and putting words in my mouth. In fact, I even said that I, myself, am overweight, but not out of shape... so why would you even think I said that when my personal situation directly contradicts it?


So calling someone fat implies that you disapprove of them, because it implies their weight is higher than the weight you find acceptable.

Since when did this become about accepting/not accepting people? Lol. At what point did I even say I don't accept fat people? haha. In fact, I repeated multiple times that I don't mind fat people as long as they aren't trying to censor those around them by being overly defensive. Being happy and fat, to me, is completely fine. In fact, I JUST QUOTED THIS TO YOU. I even said I have many friends who are that way. Wow, dude, you're just like way off somewhere right now I don't even know~


It would be a strange situation indeed where people were busy obsessing about their weight and expected you to lie to them and tell them they were skinny...

That's essentially the case with having to use euphemisms for "fat" or avoiding the topic of weight altogether, though? You have to pretend like you aren't observing something because it would violate their insecurities... That's actually what this whole thread is about. The shitstorm just took over.


...defend your hatred of people who don't conform to what you think they should look like.

Yeah, I totally hate fat people. That's totally what this thread is about.


...lack of empathy.

This is really funny.

indescribable
06-28-2012, 10:43 PM
In fact, I even said that I, myself, am overweight, but not out of shape... so why would you even think I said that when my personal situation directly contradicts it?
Quick question: Is your excess weight due to muscle mass or actual fat?

Kodos
06-28-2012, 10:50 PM
I agree, Cype, why should I have to use euphemisms for the word fat when describing fat people? It's not like words can carry certain negative or offensive meanings. I mean, God, just the other day a gay man was offended when I called him a faggot. Why can't he just grow a pair?

Beep boop I am a robot who cannot understand how words can possibly hurt people and is either incapable or unwilling to make the most insignificant of adjustments to my lifestyle to try and make other people less miserable beep boop.

Inksprout
06-28-2012, 10:57 PM
First of all you misread what I wrote. This is what I wrote 'As you have already pointed out you don't even have to be thin to be physically fit', so I was pretty much quoting what you had already said about yourself and others and agreeing with you. Perhaps I misinterpreted Toast's post and she is simply saying fat people are lazy. In which case I still disagree. I think that not loosing weight has very little to do with laziness, and a lot more to do with feelings of self consciousness.

Like for example if you have to go to see a doctor about a very embarrassing medical condition, perhaps you feel ashamed because its something like an injury that was the result of you acting irresponsibly in the first place. You would probably go to the doctor and it would be over fairly quickly and you would get some kind of treatment. If you have a weight problem going to the gym or going out jogging is going to feel a lot like that, embarrassing, and you might even feel ashamed because you ended up getting overweight in the first place. Unlike going to the doctor and getting a treatment, weight loss takes a long time and you have to keep going back to the gym and facing that embarrassment and shame every time for months to get results. For this reason I think its hard for people to do anything about their weight even when they are unhappy about it. I don't think that is laziness or has anything to do with laziness. Your saying that getting out of your comfort zone just requires more effort seems like a massive over simplification to me.

The reason why I am going in to all this is just to try and point out exactly why people get defensive when you talk about weight tactlessly. People say they deserve to feel good about themselves because hell, they do. They should feel comfortable enough with their bodies that they can go and work out at a gym without feeling ashamed of themselves. When you go around blurting out things about people's weights they get offended, not because of any judgement you are making but because they themselves feel bad about their weight issues already, and it hurts to have it bluntly pointed out. If you think that's not a good reason to talk about the topic tactfully then please, by all means, go out and discuss your friend's weight issues.

Kodos
06-29-2012, 04:22 AM
Guys. Cype's problem, again, is not fat people. It's that he can't call them fat. He's arguing that he should be allowed to use whatever terms he wants to describe people, as long as they are objectively true, and that if these words carry a pejorative with them today, due to shifting social trends and mores, then that is a problem for other people and not him.

Frankly, for once, I find myself agreeing with Cype. I mean, it's absurd! Would anyone fault me for calling the mentally handicapped idiots or morons to their face? Why should we have to beat around the bush and call fat people anything other than fat? Next thing you know we won't even be able to call Asians Orientals!

It's political correctness run wild! How dare people think they have the right to take offense at what words we use to describe them!

Delphinus
06-29-2012, 04:27 AM
So guys the other day I was walking down the street when I saw my friend. She's kinda flat-chested, and the first thing I notice or care about when I look at someone is their tits. I'm a guy, lol. Anyway I called out to her: "Hey tiny tits" I said, "how's your midget boyfriend?"

So she comes over and she's all like "what the fuck is wrong with you" and I'm like "bitch, I don't see why I should censor my language for you." So she calls me an asshole, which is just stupid because I was giving my TRUE and HONEST opinion. But hey, she's my friend, she laughs it off and forgives me for whatever imaginary offence I just committed. Kinda a frosty start though, so I ask about her mother, since I heard she was ill: "Hey how's that quivering sweat-encrusted mountain of flab doing, I mean your mother?"

So she slaps me and walks off. Women are crazy like that you know, they take offence at stupid shit. Then this black guy comes over...

WhenRabbitsAttack
06-29-2012, 05:18 AM
i'd lol'd but that is in bad taste, man.

freedom of speech is a fundamental human right so you shouldn't feel that you have to censor stuff for others.
however, showing sensitivity to others is also important
if you know a person is insecure about their weight, that blatantly pointing it out will probably be met witha torrent of abuse and defensiveness/denial.
not really good for you or them
use any term you want to describe a person, but understand their views on the subject/term before you go dicking around with it.
could salvage some relationships that were going up in smoke before
euphamisms don't help anything either.
they are confusing and alot of meanings can be inffered from a single word. best to stick with things that are clear,concise and sometimes blunt. atleast everyone will know what you mean

and i personally think fat, happy people are awesome. they are the best kind of people. the ones who sincerly don't give a shit about your opinion on how the look. it don't affect them.
awesome :D

CypressDahlia
06-29-2012, 01:02 PM
Kodos you still haven't been able to make the distinction between the terms "idiot" and "fat". That is a judgment of character versus a plain-sight observation. As you would say, "you are being deliberately obtuse". And I like how you went from accusing me of being a dick with an Adonis complex a page ago and now you're saying something else.

And Inksprout, yeah, sorry, I did misread your post. My bad. And understand that I'm not actually like going around calling random people fat, like many of you seem to think. It's stupid that any of you would actually even think that. Nobody even does that, realistically. Seriously. That's why I'm getting a little annoyed with people filling in the blanks on their own. I just mean that if you were talking about weight with an overweight person, you shouldn't have to tip-toe around the fact. "Dude, you're getting fat" is something I say to, and hear from, my friends all the time. To which the typical response is "yeah, I know...I'm trying to get back in shape."


And I would argue that overcoming your insecurities involves effort as well. So the distinction between shame and laziness might be psychological in nature, but lack of effort can be attributed to not overcoming either. For example, a person who is deathly afraid of public speaking would have to take therapy and/or speech courses. Or even just practice using their own resources. It requires invested time and effort on their part. This is actually a big issue with artists as well: "comfort zones". And it requires drilling different styles and subjects all day to get comfortable with something out of your norm. As I said: you either don't want to fix it or you do. If you want something badly enough, you'll do it. And if you don't, you shouldn't hold a knife to others necks over it.

Because nobody is actually telling you to do it. Fat and happy is fine. But you, yourself, are the one that finds issue with it. So why hold others accountable.

Kodos
06-29-2012, 01:40 PM
Idiocy is, or at least was, an objective term. It was used to refer to individuals with an IQ of 30 or less. It has fallen out of favor because it has become seen as a pejorative, so it is no longer used clinically. If I am not mistaken the modern clinical term is profound mental retardation.

I may have implied you were a dick with an adonis complex, and I certainly think at least half of that is true, because that is how I interpreted your argument. Then you refined it to a complaint about censorship, and I refined my argument to match.
Personally, I don't think you have a coherent ideological reason for this and it's just you wanting to make excuses for your distaste for fat people. I do believe that, but obviously it is not something anyone can possibly prove. So as you have since provided a more clear and solid case, I have responded in kind.

"I repeated multiple times that I don't mind fat people as long as they aren't trying to censor those around them by being overly defensive."
If a fat person does not wish to be called fat why is it you are so unable to comply with that request? Fat is a word which has an objective meaning, like idiot, but has taken on a pejorative context, like idiot. Would you respect the wishes of a mentally handicapped person to not be called an idiot or a moron? How about the wishes of a disabled person to not be called a cripple?

Why is it that you take issue with something so minor that makes others happy? That is my point. Why is it your are threatened by something as simple as "some people find the term 'fat' offensive and would prefer to not be called it."

And, finally, if you do not think fat people are randomly called fat or otherwise harassed, you are either extremely sheltered or very unobservant.

EDIT: I'm very sleepy, so maybe I am misunderstanding something, and that is within possibility for certain, but is your last line seriously asking why people hold other people accountable for the words that come out of their mouths?

CypressDahlia
06-29-2012, 01:49 PM
Idiocy is, or at least was, an objective term.

was.


Then you refined it to a complaint about censorship, and I refined my argument to match.

Actually, if you read the first post, key words were: "compliments", "lying", "falsehoods". This whole thing has been about censorship.


If a fat person does not wish to be called fat why is it you are so unable to comply with that request?

Because they are? Like I said. A person like me has nothing against a fat individual. So me calling them fat is not in any way an insult to them. They take it as an insult because they, themselves, are personally bothered by their weight, whereas I am not. So why should I curb my speech for something that they are making offensive on their own?


And, finally, if you do not think fat people are randomly called fat or otherwise harassed, you are either extremely sheltered or very unobservant.

I'm sure that has happened maybe 5 small instances out of the 21 years I've been alive. That is a pretty small incidence.


I'm very sleepy, so maybe I am misunderstanding something, and that is within possibility for certain, but is your last line seriously asking why people hold other people accountable for the words that come out of their mouths?

No. The expectation is made before any words come out of anyone's mouths. The expectation is created as soon as an overweight person walks into a room. The expectation is broken when the word 'fat' is said. The person is not held accountable for saying what they said, they are held accountable for the meaning that someone else attributes it to. Which is stupid.

Kodos
06-29-2012, 01:55 PM
"No. The expectation is made before any words come out of anyone's mouths. The expectation is created as soon as a black person walks into a room. The expectation is broken when the word 'nigger' is said. The person is not held accountable for saying what they said, they are held accountable for the meaning that someone else attributes it to. Which is stupid. "

CypressDahlia
06-29-2012, 02:09 PM
Except "nigger" is widely considered a racial slur? Has no medical or diagnostic value? Has a history of being used harmfully against a group of people for something that 1.) they cannot change 2.) poses no detriment to anyone and 3.) has no significance in identifying personal or characteristic deficiencies? Associated with some of the worst inhumane and violent crimes of the past few centuries? There are key differences between "fat" and "nigger" Kodos that you are deliberately ignoring.

Kodos
06-29-2012, 02:13 PM
1. Why should fat people have to change?
1.5. Being healthy and/or thin is expensive. Skinniness and healthiness - which are not the same thing - are both luxuries that many Americans cannot afford.
2. What detriment does being fat pose? What detriment does being black pose?
3. What personal deficiency does being fat illustrate? Tell me, please, I'm dying to know why fatties are untermensch worthy only of our scorn.

CypressDahlia
06-29-2012, 02:25 PM
1. Why should fat people have to change?

They don't. I said I'm perfectly fine with fat people being fat. It's the fat people who are bothered by their own weight and force others to walk on eggshells around them that bother me.


1.5. Being healthy and/or thin is expensive. Skinniness and healthiness - which are not the same thing - are both luxuries that many Americans cannot afford.

I don't argue that. But see, what you're saying is people cannot afford to be healthy. In other words, people are forced--by lack of accessibility to healthy options--to be fat. You are creating a dichotomy between "healthy" and "fat".


2. What detriment does being fat pose? What detriment does being black pose?

Are you seriously suggesting that obesity isn't a health problem? Cuz you know, 30&#37;+ of American adults are obese and it threatens to shorten their lifespans. Far more are overweight and even more are out of shape. I'm not saying "being fat poses a detriment 100&#37; of the time", but it is a possible indicator of conditions that may. And avoiding the topic doesn't help identify them. And being black poses no detriment at all. That was my point.


3. What personal deficiency does being fat illustrate?

I dunno, the ones that toast, Inksprout and I have been discussing for the past 4 pages? An inability to cope with one's insecurities. An inability to leave one's comfort zones? Potential laziness? Of course, this is not 100&#37; true. But like I said, avoiding the subject altogether doesn't help identify the cases where it is true, which do exist.


Tell me, please, I'm dying to know why fatties are untermensch worthy only of our scorn.

Right. That's what I've been saying.

Kodos
06-29-2012, 02:38 PM
They don't. I said I'm perfectly fine with fat people being fat. It's the fat people who are bothered by their own weight and force others to walk on eggshells around them that bother me.
It is so difficult for you not to use the word 'fat' that it is equivalent to walking on eggshells? Your vocabulary is that limited and/or you are that impulsive?
And, again, how is this an issue? To my knowledge people are not saying "never use the word fat, ever" they are simply saying "I find the word fat pejorative, please don't use it in my presence. Thank you."


I don't argue that. But see, what you're saying is people cannot afford to be healthy. In other words, people are forced--by lack of accessibility to healthy options--to be fat. You are creating a dichotomy between "healthy" and "fat".
Did you read what I wrote, at all? I said they cannot afford to be healthy and/or skinny. The affordable food options for most Americans are both unhealthy and fattening. Not all fat people are unhealthy, not all skinny people are healthy. But the affordable food options for most Americans are both fat heavy and unhealthy.


Are you seriously suggesting that obesity isn't a health problem? Cuz you know, 30&#37;+ of American adults are obese and it threatens to shorten their lifespans. Far more are overweight and even more are out of shape. I'm not saying "being fat poses a detriment 100&#37; of the time", but it is a possible indicator of conditions that may. And avoiding the topic doesn't help identify them. And being black poses no detriment at all. That was my point.
Some people may choose that the pleasure they gain from eating fatty foods is worth the shorter lifespan. Fat related health complications are not contagious. It is not your place to judge whether or not this is an acceptable trade-off. Many people find the pleasure of a rough sport like football or boxing to be worth the associated health risks.
So, no, try again.


I dunno, the ones that toast, Inksprout and I have been discussing for the past 4 pages? An inability to cope with one's insecurities. An inability to leave one's comfort zones? Potential laziness? Of course, this is not 100&#37; true. But like I said, avoiding the subject altogether doesn't help identify the cases where it is true, which do exist.
Please demonstrate to me the connection between being fat and all these things. Because, see, where I am standing, the only thing being fat illustrates is "this person eats a lot of fatty foods and doesn't exercise enough to off-set that fat."
Also, let's entertain your madness. Okay. In fact, let's go a step further. Every single fat person is insecure, unable to leave their comfort zone, and lazy. So what?



Right. That's what I've been saying.
You are saying that being fat is an objectively bad thing and that you have the right to call fat people fat whether or not they want you to. You have not demonstrated that fatness is objectively bad, and you have not demonstrated why you calling fat people fat when they would rather you didn't is not you being a massive prick.

Delphinus
06-29-2012, 02:41 PM
Cypress, your dispute with Kodos and I arises from our differing semiotic perspectives.

You argue that the meaning of language (here 'fat') is created entirely by the listener, without any reference to the intention of the speaker or to social context. Within this perspective your argument is perfectly acceptable; 'fat' is insulting because the listener deems it insulting, the speaker bears no responsibility for the listener's interpretation, and so on. This would be a perfectly acceptable perspective a century or so ago, before philosophy of language really got started. However, there are a number of simple arguments that can easily show how useless this theory is. Here's one Kodos made on AIM:


- The man is literally like a brother to me. I'm as close with him as any two people can be in a non-romantic relationship. We've been friends for ages. Anyway.
- "Sup shitbitch."
- "Assmonger."
- By Cype's logic
- We are insulting eachother.
- Because words have only one meaning
- And context and social setting can't matter

Kodos and I are arguing that the intention of the speaker and the social context are important in interpreting the meaning of language, hence calling someone 'fat' is an insult in a context where it is deemed to be insulting. Moreover Kodos' example shows how important the intention of the speaker is to fully understanding the social context. Your calling someone fat, unless they're a close friend who doesn't care, is rude because the social context says it is. Claiming that it's the offended person's fault for being offended totally ignores the way language is normally used.

CypressDahlia
06-29-2012, 03:04 PM
It is so difficult for you not to use the word 'fat' that it is equivalent to walking on eggshells? Your vocabulary is that limited and/or you are that impulsive?

Nope. It's one of many words I could use, but why should I censor myself in that single instance anyway?


I said they cannot afford to be healthy and/or skinny.

So they can only afford to be fat, right.


It is not your place to judge whether or not this is an acceptable trade-off.

So you agree that it does generally pose a detriment, then. I agree that it's not my place to judge. But I'm not judging. Lol. I was just pointing out why your replacing the word 'fat' with 'nigger' in the context of my post doesn't make any sense.


Many people find the pleasure of a rough sport like football or boxing to be worth the associated health risks.

Except football players and boxers are generally healthier than most average people?


Please demonstrate to me the connection between being fat and all these things.

It's clear you didn't go back and read these posts because Inksprout herself is having issues feeling relaxed in a gym environment and we are discussing how that is negatively affecting her desire to lose weight... C'mon now.


So what?

So nothing. Like I said, I made these points to show that using the word 'nigger' in place of 'fat' in my post doesn't make any sense.


You are saying that being fat is an objectively bad thing.

Obesity is an objectively bad thing, yes. If you were to disagree, I'd have to say you're insane. Being overweight is not necessarily bad, but being out of shape does have lasting health repercussions. Either way, no, I'm not saying that being fat is an objectively bad thing. I, myself, have stated that there are exceptions. I'm saying it's a general indicator of bad things.



And yes, Delphinus, I agree. We're just looking at the word differently. But at the same time, even though I have extensively explained that I do not mean it as an insult, for some reason the last 6 or so pages of this thread insisted that it was. There are some words that, despite social context and etiquette, are so needlessly reactive that it doesn't make sense. Fat is //clearly// one of them.

I also like how nobody says shit about the liberal use of the word "nigger" and "faggot" on the internet but, by God, if you call someone "fat", you are damned for eternity.


Quick question: Is your excess weight due to muscle mass or actual fat?

I'm about 30 pounds overweight. I'd say it's like 20 pounds worth of muscle and lots of bone density and 10 pounds of fat.

Sunny
06-30-2012, 03:45 PM
I think there's a fine line between just being an asshat, and actually doing something that's useful. IMHO, you shouldn't always waste your breath. Yes, people get butthurt over everything; have a cookie. But sometimes, opinions need to gtfo. I mean, you're not part of that person's life, so you can't really know what they are really all going through. You can, from a subjective point of view, but that's really it. I do think you're responsible for what you say and that, yea, there are times when you need to say something, and other times when you need to nut up and shut up. Karma is a bitch, but it really depends on the kind of person you're talking to and how well you know them. Some people need to have things said in a softer tone, and others need a swift kick in the ass.

Regardless, so what if people stick in their comfort zones? If you really just don't care, then why does it matter if people feel if they're beautiful or not? Why do you feel the need to tell people they're this, that, or the other? And why SHOULDN'T people be offended? Shouldn't they have a right to be just as opinionated as you are?

An opinion is like a fart. It's fine to have an opinion, but like a fart, there are just times where you shouldn't rip one. Knowing when to say something, and when not to, I think, is a sign of maturity, and not just a recognized effort to understand social graces. Personally, I think it shows that you have the wisdom and understanding to let people be themselves, whether or not you agree or disagree, like or dislike with what they're doing with their lives.

So, no, I don't think you should go around calling people fat and not take responsibility for it. It's a social taboo everybody knows; it's not hard to understand. But if someone is lying about paperwork at work and blaming it on you, you should get out the whips and slap some bitches. Good day!

CypressDahlia
07-01-2012, 03:24 AM
So, no, I don't think you should go around calling people fat and not take responsibility for it. It's a social taboo everybody knows; it's not hard to understand.

So wait, you're telling me that we have a 70 page thread dedicated solely to making insulting generalizations about the largest religious constituency on the planet--that's 2.1 billion people--and that hasn't bothered anyone but calling a person fat based on relatively objective and quantifiable factors is such a social taboo?

I think MT ethics, for the most part, are pretty Lol-worthy but this kinda takes the cake. "Fat" is super inflammatory but vilifying a third of the planet for mere beliefs is not. I give a slow clap for how ass backwards this whole discussion is.

Delphinus
07-01-2012, 07:00 AM
And yes, Delphinus, I agree. We're just looking at the word differently. But at the same time, even though I have extensively explained that I do not mean it as an insult, for some reason the last 6 or so pages of this thread insisted that it was. There are some words that, despite social context and etiquette, are so needlessly reactive that it doesn't make sense. Fat is //clearly// one of them.

Don't you see that social context is what makes it reactive?
I didn't say "it's all opinions", I said we take differing semiotic viewpoints, and that your argument for 'fat' only being offensive because the perceiver deems it so is based on a semiotic view that can easily be proven to be false. Ergo your argument is false, because it rests on shaky foundations.


So wait, you're telling me that we have a 70 page thread dedicated solely to making insulting generalizations about the largest religious constituency on the planet--that's 2.1 billion people--and that hasn't bothered anyone but calling a person fat based on relatively objective and quantifiable factors is such a social taboo?

Firstly, this is irrelevant to the actual argument and is a form of ad hominem attack, even if it were true: your opponents argue for a viewpoint that you find loathsome, therefore their arguments are unsound. That's politician logic, and worse: conservative politician logic. Secondly, I think if you were to look in the Psalm thread rather than make 'insulting generalisations' about the views there, you'd find that most of the regular posters don't believe that individual believers are in the wrong or bad people. We argue against the belief system, rather than villainising individual believers. We may use the loathsome actions of some individual believers as examples of 'bad religion' but we don't think all religious people are like that: Jack and Joe Christian are probably nice people.

Speaking solely for myself, I think there are positive moral and spiritual messages to be taken from many of the world's religions, but that the organised nature and dogmatism of these religions undermines their positive message. I also believe that religious texts ought to be treated as any work of literature: you can feel free to agree or disagree with particular parts of it. I think religion does reveal truths, but these truths are not spiritual or metaphysical, they're psychological. For example, I agree with the Catholic idea of God (the Father) as an impersonal and distant presence, which bears some resemblance to eastern religious ideas, but with the Protestant idea of the individual, rather than collective, search for religious truth. I fail to see the problem with this.

Kodos
07-01-2012, 11:11 AM
So wait, you're telling me that we have a 70 page thread dedicated solely to making insulting generalizations about the largest religious constituency on the planet--that's 2.1 billion people--and that hasn't bothered anyone but calling a person fat based on relatively objective and quantifiable factors is such a social taboo?

I think MT ethics, for the most part, are pretty Lol-worthy but this kinda takes the cake. "Fat" is super inflammatory but vilifying a third of the planet for mere beliefs is not. I give a slow clap for how ass backwards this whole discussion is.
First, what Del said. Second, religious beliefs do tell you something about a person's moral beliefs and values, weight does not.
But, hey, you've never shirked from making childish petty arguments that would be at home more on a playground than in any sort of intellectual debate, so why start now?

I'm done with this thread though. It's followed the pattern nearly all discussions with you do. You make some absurd, outrageous, position, and then when you get called out on it you spend the next few dozen pages claiming everyone misunderstood you while strawmanning or otherwise deliberately misunderstanding every other poster's argument.

At the end of the day the simple fact of this thread is this: Cypress Dahlia does not believe he should have to make a sacrifice as tiny as "do not call people fat when they ask not to be called fat" in order to make other people happy.

I really think that speaks for itself.

Linz
07-01-2012, 12:19 PM
I think its time to put the toys away, boys. It's dinner time.

CypressDahlia
07-01-2012, 12:49 PM
Firstly, this is irrelevant to the actual argument and is a form of ad hominem attack...

You have to be trolling me. 90&#37; of everything you've said in this thread has been an ad hominem attack. Are you being serious right now? And no, it's perfectly relevant to the argument since that thread itself is literally an ad hominem attack, just stretched out over 70 pages. Even if there are no counter-arguments, it keeps going and going in one giant circle jerk of "hey, guess what those idiots are doing now". And hardly is there a post there that doesn't make an offensive judgment or speaks derisively about the subject.

The point being: so it's socially acceptable to do that in your eyes (openly talking shit about a religion and its constituents under the guise of a 'debate' even if no counter-arguments are made), but it's not socially acceptable call someone "fat" if that is, in fact, what they can be deemed medically and metrically to be?

Does that not prove my point that maybe "fat" is blown out of proportion, considering the former can be deemed far more judgmental and insulting, yet nobody responds to it nearly as negatively?


Don't you see that social context is what makes it reactive?

Actually, no. This thread is proof of the fact that that's false. This thread is a sterile environment with no real social aspect. It exists for the sole purpose of discussing something on a dialectical level. Nobody here is actually being directly called "fat" or insulted in any way. In other words: the social context that you speak of is entirely absent. There is no sensitive fat person here being bullied by me. I'm not creating a thread entitled "[x] member is fat". And even then it wouldn't have the same gravity as walking up to someone in person who is actually fat and going "hey, you're fat".

And YET this thread STILL managed to explode into a torrent of defensiveness.


Second, religious beliefs do tell you something about a person's moral beliefs and values, weight does not.

Which is a moot point since I've repeated over and over again that I am not making any judgments about a person's morals or values when using the term "fat". But you have proven my point. You think it's perfectly acceptable to judge a person's morals and values based on their religion (ie. no objective or quantifiable value), but you do not think it's okay to call someone "fat" even if they are, in fact, overweight?

So you think it makes more sense to make shaky assumptions about a person's character than state a clear observation?

Furthermore, didn't I have to hound you about bullying members on this site, to which you responded: "its the internet, stop white knighting? nobody cares". So to see you sit there and say things like "he can't make sacrifices to make others happy" is really hilarious to me because you CLEARLY care about peoples' feelings.

Besides, I don't have to make the point that I've been misunderstood. You yourself have changed your approach to this argument about 3 times from: "Cypress has an Adonis complex", to "Cypress doesn't want to censor himself because he's dick", to "Cypress hates fat people" despite myself clearly having said this on the first page:


Yep. If a person is fat and happy, that's cool.

So either you can't read, or you are really grasping at straws to make this into a personal attack in any way you can.

Delphinus
07-01-2012, 02:08 PM
Okay, whatever Cypress. You win. Go ahead and call people fat as much as you like. Truly you are a master of debate. All reasonable people will agree with you that calling people fat to their face is not offensive. Incidentally, do you enjoy long-distance running?

I wrote a proper response but decided I couldn't be bothered to deal with you any more.

WhenRabbitsAttack
07-01-2012, 08:12 PM
cype, i'm gonna put my opinions down in a few sentences, whether you agree with them or not is your problem. i'm just stating my thoughts, and you can react anyway you choose.


people have opinions too. your opinion (as far as i can tell) is that you don't think people who are insecure about their weight should expect you to use metaphors and other words to describe their situation, just because the word "fat" makes them feel bad.

but most others opinions will show that they find the woord "fat" insulting. it doesn't matter what it means to you, as they won't know that. they only know what it means to them. even if you meant no offence, they will still take offence, because they don't know what you meant unless you explain.

context plays acruicial part in how words are recieved by the speaker and listener.

evn though you ahve freedom of speech and the right to express your own opinions anyway you choose, so do they.

CypressDahlia
07-02-2012, 01:19 AM
All reasonable people will agree with you that calling people fat to their face is not offensive.

This has largely to do with everyone here creating some absurd hypothetical where I'm running rabidly around the streets yelling "hey, fatty" at every overweight person I see. Yeah, that's a dick move. But that's not what at all what I'm doing, or intend to do. I don't even know why anyone even assumed that. It's an entirely unrealistic scenario for the most part and doesn't really even happen.

Though I generally agree with the idea that social context plays a large part in the meaning of words, I believe "fat" is a huge exception and this thread is proof of it. Why? Well let me lay it out like this. According to you, the meaning of a word is the sum of three major factors:

social context, intent of the speaker, and interpretation of the receiver

This thread itself has pretty much no social context. The intent of the speaker (myself), has been thoroughly explained to be non-offensive. But here's the kicker. None of that matters. Because you guys have decided to interpret "fat" as offensive anyway, completely ignoring the other two factors. Even if I explain a hundred times what I mean by it, every single rebuttal post has //insisted// that it is an insult, and that I'm using it in an offensive way, completely ignoring the intent of my words. Hell, you even went as far as to suggest that I //hate// fat people. Because that makes sense. And what with the lack of a true societal context (ie. no real setting and no real conversation, just debate), it kind of throws the idea that social context determines the meaning of a word out the window.

In the end, the word "fat" as pertaining to this thread is being entirely determined by the interpretation of the receiver. You guys don't care how objective I am, you still choose to take offense to it. You guys don't care that I'm not actually calling anyone "fat", it's still somehow offensive. So two out of three major factors are completely nullified by the over-defensiveness of the receiver. The context and intent of the speaker are ignored by how defensive the receiver is.

Do you see why I said "fat" is needlessly inflammatory?

And yeah, Rabbits. But what you've also just told me is that I'm also right. See, the general flaw with the 'everyone has an opinion' approach is that it is inherently not dialectical. It denies "truth" as being the ultimate goal of any discussion. When you say everything is subjective, you also essentially make debate useless in nature and, in a sense, relegate opinions to all being neutral and ineffective. If everyone is right, everyone might aswell be wrong. Do you see what I'm saying?

Mr_Liebe
07-02-2012, 01:38 AM
As a liscensed fat person, I believe it is socially unacceptable to blurt out so cruelly 'GOD DAMN, YOO FATT'. However, at the same time, if you are offering an honest, sincere opinion on a course of action that a husky person could take to shed pounds, and become healthier, I believe is acceptable. By all means, if you're on the subject of weight with any obese/overweight individuals, advise them on how they could improve the quality of their health, just show a modicum of tact.

Inksprout
07-02-2012, 02:41 AM
you guys have decided to interpret "fat" as offensive anyway, completely ignoring the other two factors. Even if I explain a hundred times what I mean by it, every single rebuttal post has //insisted// that it is an insult, and that I'm using it in an offensive way, completely ignoring the intent of my words.

I, at least, began talking about the word 'fat' in terms of it being insulting because I thought you were asking for an explanation as to why people got upset about discussing weight problems openly. Obviously the answer is because they find it insulting?
As far as I am concerned you set out to discuss why the word fat is inflammatory and why people get defensive about it. What I was trying to point out (and maybe others were too) was that although you are not trying to use it in an offensive way people generally find it inherently hurtful or insulting to have their weight issues talked about openly, regardless of your intentions.
When you make a thread asking why people find something offensive there is a good chance everyone posting in that thread will be trying to explain why that thing is offensive, rather than just agreeing with you so I'm not really sure what kind of discussion you were expecting to have take place here.

CypressDahlia
07-02-2012, 03:31 AM
When you make a thread asking why people find something offensive there is a good chance everyone posting in that thread will be trying to explain why that thing is offensive...

No, see, that's fine. I'm talking about all the posts accusing me of having an Adonis complex, hating fat people, having no empathy, policing peoples' bodies. That stuff. Pretty much the entire middle segment of this thread. There is a difference between explaining why something is offensive and assuming that it was intended to be.

Inksprout
07-02-2012, 04:06 AM
I think everyone is just struggling to understand why you have such a problem with this particular taboo, there have been plenty of reasons discussed already but you seem to be maintaining that as long as the person is actually fat it should be ok to discuss it. Most people seem to just disagree and have explained why in numerous ways. Your views on weight loss are very black and white and this is probably contributing to the whole 'lack of empathy' thing. While you are not trying to insult overweight people you have certainly been implying that anyone who is unhappy with their bodies but struggling to begin to lose weight is lazy. Maybe that is were all the more unpleasant arguments are arising from?

CypressDahlia
07-02-2012, 05:32 AM
While you are not trying to insult overweight people you have certainly been implying that anyone who is unhappy with their bodies but struggling to begin to lose weight is lazy.

I think we should revisit this point because there is still something here you are missing. When I said "laziness does not qualify" I was referring only to toast's example. It wasn't meant to be an all-inclusive statement.

But I did say that overcoming one's insecurities and leaving one's comfort zone does involve effort. It's a different kind of effort but effort nonetheless. I still find "I'm trying" to be a respectable response, even if the person isn't seeing much success. Again, my point was: you're either trying, or you don't care enough to try. I can respect those who try and, as you've agreed, there is no reason to pander to those who aren't. If a person does not care enough to help themselves be satisfied with their self perception, why expect others to embellish it for them? Why force others to see in you what you do not see in yourself? That's what I'm getting at.

There have been plenty of judgmental statements made in this thread. Strangely enough, none of them were about fat people.

Delphinus
07-02-2012, 07:28 AM
Hey Cypress repeating what you've already said doesn't make it any more true or valid. Geez say something new you're boring

Superdooperphailmachine
07-02-2012, 08:21 AM
Worst Thread.

Abandon Thread.

Demonfyre
07-02-2012, 08:46 AM
In conjunction with SDPM:-

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002646051/215934417_GOP_Sinking_Ship_xlarge.jpeg

CypressDahlia
07-02-2012, 09:08 AM
I...don't know if you're trolling me, Delphinus, I really don't. Everything you say is like super ironic I don't even know.

Delphinus
07-02-2012, 10:30 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0KOOLAtg3qQ/Tg9aBmgZ78I/AAAAAAAADDM/xVaF4zYuIHA/s1600/Amazingly-Enough-I-Dont-Give-A-Shit-1.jpg

Superdooperphailmachine
07-02-2012, 10:59 AM
Let it die Quietly man.

Delphinus
07-02-2012, 11:09 AM
Fuck that, this thread is going to valhalla

Superdooperphailmachine
07-02-2012, 11:14 AM
No It's drifting into obscurity.
Valhalla is for good threads.

CypressDahlia
07-02-2012, 11:15 AM
Delphinus does it ever bother you to know that you have the ideological consistency of day old pudding.

Delphinus
07-02-2012, 11:18 AM
http://www.undisclosedstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/whatever-dude-whatever.jpg

Linz
07-02-2012, 11:20 AM
LMFAO

CypressDahlia
07-02-2012, 11:22 AM
Aight. As long as you know. I mean, everyone knows. I was just wondering if you knew.

Cuz it would suck if everyone but you knew. But you know, so it's okay.

Delphinus
07-02-2012, 11:48 AM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/12215635.jpg

Demonfyre
07-02-2012, 01:56 PM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/97d/cc3/108/resized/dave-grohl-meme-generator-oh-god-no-ae6c5e.jpg

jubeh
07-02-2012, 02:04 PM
Stay on topic and be nice

WhenRabbitsAttack
07-03-2012, 02:31 AM
OMFG

this has become an insult's chucking thread. LMFAO


@cype: who's right and who's wrong depends on social context and subjective opinion. if there is someone who thinks you're right, there is bound to be someone who thinks you're wrong. if you look through everyone's eyes then everybody is right and wrong at the same time.
it depends on who you're talking too.
so you are right (to some people) and you are wrong (to some people) at the same time.
and as to why the word fat is offensive, IDK.

Shnorkel
07-03-2012, 02:34 AM
^ opinions 101

WhenRabbitsAttack
07-03-2012, 02:41 AM
and you better believe it.
:P

but lol, this is just what i think/ my opinion (see what i did there?)

Celestial-Fox
07-03-2012, 03:44 AM
@cype: who's right and who's wrong depends on social context and subjective opinion. if there is someone who thinks you're right, there is bound to be someone who thinks you're wrong. if you look through everyone's eyes then everybody is right and wrong at the same time.
it depends on who you're talking too.
so you are right (to some people) and you are wrong (to some people) at the same time.
and as to why the word fat is offensive, IDK.
philosophical can of worms (see also: truth value, epistemology)

WhenRabbitsAttack
07-03-2012, 06:06 PM
mm-hmm.

it's sort of true though, isn't it?

ClockHand
07-03-2012, 06:17 PM
True is equal to the amount of upvotes. jk.

WhenRabbitsAttack
07-03-2012, 06:55 PM
lol, whut? what are upvotes?

Demonfyre
07-03-2012, 06:56 PM
lol, whut? what are upvotes?

O_o'

WhenRabbitsAttack
07-03-2012, 06:56 PM
huh?

Demonfyre
07-03-2012, 06:58 PM
This (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/upvote)

and This (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=upvotes)

WhenRabbitsAttack
07-03-2012, 07:16 PM
ooh..... you see how ignorant i am?

GunZet
07-03-2012, 07:45 PM
So... is this thread done now, or what? Cause it just seems kinda stagnant now, discussion-wise. Might as well be closed with the heat gone.

Hayashida
07-03-2012, 07:47 PM
There's generally no need to close a thread in the GD if the discussion dies down. Either the thread will die on its own or people will start discussing it again.

GunZet
07-03-2012, 08:01 PM
I only brought that up cause it just started out as kind of a giant flamewar, lol. Alas, guess it'll pick back up at some point, yea.

CypressDahlia
07-03-2012, 09:45 PM
The thread is kind of a proof of concept of itself. In the sense that the flamewar was ignited by a sudden influx of hyper-defensive posts around page 6. Is "fat" needlessly inflammatory? I think so. Kinda let the thread speak for itself, tho.