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AlmanacnamedTime
06-04-2012, 03:12 PM
what is the order taht all the gundam manga, anime, and novels have been made? I'm looking at seeing/reading gundam from the first one made to the latest one made.

Gaff
06-04-2012, 03:52 PM
ANN has a chronological list here (http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=4189).

Best of luck to you man.

AlmanacnamedTime
06-04-2012, 04:11 PM
ありがとうございます!

jubeh
06-04-2012, 04:24 PM
You should know that most of them are awful so your exercise will be more like a torture marathon. For instance mobile suit gundam is nigh unwatchable and you should just get the gundam trilogy instead.

Black_Shaggie
06-04-2012, 04:34 PM
What he said.

GunZet
06-04-2012, 04:34 PM
Just watch Gundam Wing, 08 MS Team, and Gundam Seed/Destiny, and you'll be good to go.

jubeh
06-04-2012, 04:43 PM
Gundam wing is so bad have you actually watched it now that you're not like 10 years old

AlmanacnamedTime
06-04-2012, 05:30 PM
if its so bad why is it so popular?

jubeh
06-04-2012, 05:42 PM
It was most peoples' first gundam show and the characters were designed to appeal to female fans.

GunZet
06-04-2012, 05:43 PM
I didn't love Wing for the story, I barely gave a damn. I loved it cause it had the most action, and still love it for that reason.

AlmanacnamedTime
06-04-2012, 05:44 PM
It was most peoples' first gundam show and the characters were designed to appeal to female fans.

ok then.

jubeh
06-04-2012, 05:52 PM
I didn't love Wing for the story, I barely gave a damn. I loved it cause it had the most action, and still love it for that reason.

Most action for you I guess is invincible suits killing other suits for free because they literally can't be hurt

GunZet
06-04-2012, 05:57 PM
Exactly. Shit was so boss. I'm just a fan of cannon fodder scenes I guess, some of the time at least.

Gaff
06-04-2012, 06:17 PM
I have yet to see a Gundam series I actually like. To be fair though, I haven't seen 0083 or War in the Pocket, both of which sound fairly interesting.

jubeh
06-04-2012, 06:29 PM
8th ms team is pretty good if you ignore the love story and the fact that a person can fight with with their cockpit open and survive no problem

Gaff
06-04-2012, 06:35 PM
Did try watching that at one point, but it was the whole 'Romeo and Juliet' thing that put me off. I'll give it another go sometime.

jubeh
06-04-2012, 06:37 PM
Yeah the whole love story thing is utter shit but it has some of the best mech fighting in anime ever. Also none of the characters are aces excluding one antagonist so its pretty grounded.

GunZet
06-04-2012, 07:01 PM
8th MS Team is one of the best.

Regantor
06-04-2012, 07:26 PM
Gundam Wing ironically had some of the best cannon fodder mechs IMO. Tragos, Aries, the Tallgeese... wtf. It was also the very first anime I properly watched. But yeah, there is just no dramatic tension at all now that I look back at it.

08th MS team... I still think was pretty good up until about half way. Yeah, the cheesy love story really did a number on it, but the combat scenes are some of the best, like Jubeh said.

Seed was terrible. Just all kinds of tedious characters and awful plotting. The mecha look and act too much like toys, even, so the action is 'meh' at best. Sorry Gunz, but that's like the one series I can't even semi-defend. >_>

GunZet
06-04-2012, 07:30 PM
Pretty much every Gundam series has -something- wrong with it, lol. You can't really fully defend one, just like parts about it. I only really dug Seed cause of the mech designs, which I just adored... mainly Buster Gundam though. The combat was highly repetitive, and at some parts you could obviously tell they just mirrored frames and put em back in: Gundam flys from the left and shoots, blowing up a helpless MS. Gundam flys from the right and shoots, blowing up another helpless MS... the same one actually.
lol

jubeh
06-04-2012, 07:35 PM
There's nothing wrong with zeta and uc is only bad because the producers were a toy company that exerted their influence over the show regardless of what the story needed.

Everything about seed was intentional. I get you saying you like the suits. That's normal. I like a lot of suits from shows I hate but that doesn't make them worth watching at all.

Regantor
06-04-2012, 07:49 PM
I always thought the weirdest thing about Zeta was the way that they suddenly dropped all other forms of transport... I mean, the original series had all sorts of weird fighters, tanks and mobile armours, all of which stood reasonably fair chances of killing suits. But in every series after the original? Pow, gone... I'm not saying that every series is bad because of this or anything, I'm just saying it's weird because that was what made the original so edgy for the time. The mobile suits were just supposed to be vehicles too; That was the entire point.

But yeah. I guess that's executive meddling for you.

Also, Igloo had tanks and stuff but I'm not really sure wither to even count that as a full, proper series or not. It's mostly hotblooded hunkajunk anyway, but kind of interesting in that I haven't seen another series past Votoms that does things in the same way.

Anyone actually seen Unicorn yet? I've been hearing good things.

Gaff
06-04-2012, 08:11 PM
I've seen a few eps of Unicorn. It's okay - standard sort of stuff you'd expect from a Gundam series, fairly well handled and nice to look at. Has a touch of the 'greatest hits album' about it, I think.

Tried watching Zeta as well, but I struggled to follow it. Presumably, my not having finished 0079 being the reason why. Great theme tune though and I did like the character art.

jubeh
06-04-2012, 08:15 PM
Yeah you won't understand zeta as well without 0079 especially char's character.

AlmanacnamedTime
06-05-2012, 09:56 AM
I liked 00.

GunZet
06-05-2012, 11:43 AM
What about ZZ.

AlmanacnamedTime
06-05-2012, 11:45 AM
didn't watch it. i saw 00, and then posted this, cuz i enjoyed it.

CypressDahlia
06-05-2012, 03:32 PM
IMO, nothing wrong with the Gundams in Wing being super indestructible. It's built into the story and the moral plight of the characters who are torn between fighting and peace constantly, which is the overarching theme of the entire series. So you have these 5 misfit young men who are each trying to resolve their role in life and their feelings about the ongoing war. Suddenly they're given these giant, nigh indestructible mechs and you watch each of them waver between righteousness and hubris. It's like a crazy sci-fi "three wishes" story.

08th MS Team is cool, though significantly slower. Seed is okay, though the characters have that new-age melodrama tacked on that a lot of new anime has.

jubeh
06-05-2012, 03:53 PM
Yeah I guess that would be true if the characters were slightly interesting in anyway and the nature of all the conflicts weren't so confusing.

It also doesn't explain why you would send grunt mechs after them especially when one of them has a gun that kills like 100 people at a time. Seems like a giant waste of resources when if one of the invincible gundams shows up you should just resign to your fate. Gundam wing is style over substance in almost every way imaginable.

Outcast
06-05-2012, 05:57 PM
Aside from the ephyon (which is borderline), wing zero custom (again borderline) and the talgeese III there is not a suit I've seen from wing that I like.

GunZet
06-05-2012, 06:30 PM
Me and Outcast talked about this like last week, but man, these are still my shit when it comes to killing things.
http://www.gundammodelkits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Master-Grade-1100-Gundam-Deathscythe-Hell-EW-Ver.-Updated-Images-04.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6230/6221991685_80ef522333_z.jpg

The Sandrock was cool too, but didn't really make my fave list.

Mr_Liebe
06-05-2012, 06:38 PM
I liked the look of the mobile dolls, the Vayeate, and the Mercurius. I liked a lot of the suits in GW, but what really drew me in was the sweet tunes.

GunZet
06-05-2012, 06:52 PM
Ugh, I couldn't STAND the 'bad guy' suits in Gundam Wing. They were just so uggglllyyyyy.

Regantor
06-05-2012, 08:58 PM
Ugly is good. Real war machines are ugly. :p

Seriously through, I still have models of the gundam heavy arms custom, the vayeate, and the mercurius and the wing zero from my childhood, so there is definitely nostalgia there. In a way, you could even say that all giant robot shows are sort of about giant toys doing battle.

But after watching stuff like Gits, Patlabor, Macross Plus, or, hell, Evangelion, I think there is just so much more appeal in robots that look and act realistic, blending in with the terrain instead of being just giant metal super heroes. If I wanted the latter, I'd just watch power rangers.

Flaws are the most crucial part of any fictitious character, country, or even super power, so why not giant robots also?

CypressDahlia
06-05-2012, 10:03 PM
Yeah I guess that would be true if the characters were slightly interesting in anyway and the nature of all the conflicts weren't so confusing.

The nature of political drama and war are confusing, though. That's the point. The characters supposed to be confused, and the situations are supposed to be confusing. I liked Wing because it bothered to take a non-fundamental approach to war whereas past Gundam series had obvious "bad guys" and "good guys", which became the trend again with SEED (the ZAFT characters were notably more despicable and hero-foil in nature). TBH even as a kid I got the general gist of what was going on. The Endless Waltz movie hit it home for me, as far as the defections and such. And the characters, IMO, are pretty interesting considering they aren't the typical natural ace, super-humanitarian bleeding heart heroes that most Gundam protagonists are. "I--I kill hundreds of people every day in a giant mech suit but 30 episodes later I'm still whining about how it hurts me to do so!"

And you would send grunt mechs after them because you didn't have anything else, so you try to compensate with numbers. The gundams in the wing universe were developed by seven geniuses with ridiculous funds and access to rare raw materials. They were almost mythical in nature. And throughout the series you see the opposite faction try //multiple// times to create mobile suits that were of equal capability to the gundams (Vayaete, Mercurius, Epyon, all which were based off the Wing schematics). But yeah, I mean I'm sure they would if they //could//. Why does Ford make Fords and not Ferraris?

GunZet
06-05-2012, 10:45 PM
Ugly is good. Real war machines are ugly. :p

Seriously through, I still have models of the gundam heavy arms custom, the vayeate, and the mercurius and the wing zero from my childhood, so there is definitely nostalgia there. In a way, you could even say that all giant robot shows are sort of about giant toys doing battle.

But after watching stuff like Gits, Patlabor, Macross Plus, or, hell, Evangelion, I think there is just so much more appeal in robots that look and act realistic, blending in with the terrain instead of being just giant metal super heroes. If I wanted the latter, I'd just watch power rangers.

Flaws are the most crucial part of any fictitious character, country, or even super power, so why not giant robots also?

True, but I mean, when it comes to any Gundam series, specifically Gundam, I just expect their designs and mechs to look sexy. I could give a damn for function, there will never be super fast nuclear reactors sword dueling in space, lol.

jubeh
06-05-2012, 11:53 PM
The nature of political drama and war are confusing, though. That's the point. The characters supposed to be confused, and the situations are supposed to be confusing. I liked Wing because it bothered to take a non-fundamental approach to war whereas past Gundam series had obvious "bad guys" and "good guys", which became the trend again with SEED (the ZAFT characters were notably more despicable and hero-foil in nature). TBH even as a kid I got the general gist of what was going on. The Endless Waltz movie hit it home for me, as far as the defections and such. And the characters, IMO, are pretty interesting considering they aren't the typical natural ace, super-humanitarian bleeding heart heroes that most Gundam protagonists are. "I--I kill hundreds of people every day in a giant mech suit but 30 episodes later I'm still whining about how it hurts me to do so!"

I have a hard time believing the confusing nature of the series was intentional. I'm willing to watch it again but I remember the last time I did I was literally laughing at how silly it was.

Also there is a character that literally whines about killing all the time.


And you would send grunt mechs after them because you didn't have anything else, so you try to compensate with numbers. The gundams in the wing universe were developed by seven geniuses with ridiculous funds and access to rare raw materials. They were almost mythical in nature. And throughout the series you see the opposite faction try //multiple// times to create mobile suits that were of equal capability to the gundams (Vayaete, Mercurius, Epyon, all which were based off the Wing schematics). But yeah, I mean I'm sure they would if they //could//. Why does Ford make Fords and not Ferraris?

When trying to penetrate armor you either can or you can't. Having 100's of dudes fire on one guy isn't going to improve your chances when your weapons couldn't hurt them in the first place. Unless you are waiting for the off chance the guy hops out of his cockpit to take a wiz or something.

GunZet
06-06-2012, 12:19 AM
Also there is a character that literally whines about killing all the time.

Heero?

jubeh
06-06-2012, 12:22 AM
I was thinking of quatre since heero whines about killing because he doesn't want to whine about killing.

CypressDahlia
06-06-2012, 01:24 AM
Though I agree about Quatre, he is only one of five protagonists. And he is infinitely more interesting than previous gundam protagonists in his nature, mannerisms, etc. He's a bit of an eccentric (obv.). And I don't remember many episodes even focusing on Quatre. Heero doesn't whine about killing so much as he has flashbacks of his first massacre, and tries to interpret them throughout the series. He is a programmed assassin, so, despite the whole self-realization thing being an obvious trope, it makes sense.

The twists in the series are confusing to follow because you have a lot of love interests (five separate couplings for the main protagonists) and a cast of characters who are constantly defecting to both sides of the conflict, when not claiming to be independent. And then you have Zechs who is even harder to follow due to his identity and motives switching up all the time.

The gundams weren't invincible, just nigh invulnerable. They could be hurt with a lot of firepower, against a lot of skilled opposition and few lucky shots. I mean, they are being constantly repaired throughout the series.

jubeh
06-06-2012, 01:45 AM
Though I agree about Quatre, he is only one of five protagonists. And he is infinitely more interesting than previous gundam protagonists in his nature, mannerisms, etc. He's a bit of an eccentric (obv.). And I don't remember many episodes even focusing on Quatre. Heero doesn't whine about killing so much as he has flashbacks of his first massacre, and tries to interpret them throughout the series. He is a programmed assassin, so, despite the whole self-realization thing being an obvious trope, it makes sense.

Gunzet was the one that brought up heero who while I think is a dumb character is whining for a more interesting reason. He is whining that he feels remorse at all when he's supposed to be heartless.


The twists in the series are confusing to follow because you have a lot of love interests (five separate couplings for the main protagonists) and a cast of characters who are constantly defecting to both sides of the conflict, when not claiming to be independent. And then you have Zechs who is even harder to follow due to his identity and motives switching up all the time.

Its not the twists that are confusing but the actual conflict in general. You start out with something really basic albeit involving the worst plan of all time: give children invincible robots and not tell them about each other even though they are expected to cooperate. Then you have these pacifist dudes that are all about peace but are constantly getting bailed out in obviously non-pacifistic ways. Then white fang shows up and dudes can't decide what their names are.

And in all this the messages get confused. Gundam wing to me at its very core is safety through violence or pacifism but every time they try to hammer in the point its so bad. Oh you saw two guys in space fighting and now you want to put your differences aside? How about when your husbands and sons were put in mobile suits to be slaughtered by those same dudes?

The shows not without good stuff but it almost seems like it was written by 50 dudes who never talked to each other.


The gundams weren't invincible, just nigh invulnerable. They could be hurt with a lot of firepower, against a lot of skilled opposition and few lucky shots. I mean, they are being constantly repaired throughout the series.

This seems to me like a misunderstanding by the writers on what impenetrable armor would be like. Almost like it has hit points or something. Regardless it doesn't really matter, for all intents and purposes the fights lack dramatic tension because not only do you not have to worry about the protagonists dying -- at any given the time the stakes could be something you only just learned about.

Regantor
06-06-2012, 12:38 PM
I seem to remember the only time a gundam was ever even beaten by a regular MS during the series was by Zechs in the tallgeese, and I'm pretty sure Heero was already wounded before the battle. The aforementioned vayeate and mercurius barely even count for giving the gundams a hard time because they A) Were made from gundanium, by an ex-project meteor scientist, B) They both had AIs based directly on gundam pilot main characters, and C) They end up getting blown up within an episode or two anyway. Include the non-project meteor Epyon into this list, and... Well, yeah. You can't really disprove that the main character's gundams weren't just character shielding it up until Endless Waltz.

EW itself... might have counted as a gundam loss if they didn't do the whole "Try to win without killing anyone!" thing. The MS serpents were supposed to be Oz's fanciest gundam-killing units from the end of the war in the first place. Did they actually knock out a single MS with a character inside? Even Noin's outdated Tarus? Nope. The Wing Zero more or less blew it's own arms off, so I have no idea if that one counts or not.

It's not the worst anime space opera series by a long shot at any rate, but, I'm sorry, the technology and tactics were sillyville.

Legend of the Galactic Heroes is from the same-ish time period and has melodrama by the buckets, but still stands head and shoulders over GW because of the numerous unwinnable scenarios provided by it's attention to detail. That's the difference in my eyes, at least.

CypressDahlia
06-07-2012, 05:03 AM
Actually the Serpents were extremely capable mobile suits. The pilots just sucked. When WuFei and Trowa defect to the Mariemaia faction, Trowa pilots a serpent and demonstrates how capable it is in skilled hands. Heero and Duo both put up considerable resistance against Altron gundam while piloting Leos. The mobile dolls were always capable, the Oz pilots were just nothing in comparison to the main cast. If anything, I'd say the extent to which the main cast are skilled is more plot armor than the actual gundams.

And the reason the Vayeate and Mercurius got wrecked is not because they were weak. One self-destructs and the other gets wrecked by Wing's colony-killer beam rifle (understandable, as that thing even blew Wing's own arms off). The episode where they get destroyed a second time is the first episode to feature Deathscythe Hell, who stands above its predecessor in the sense that it has a full cloaking device. At the end of the episode it basically just //appears// behind the two suits and takes em out with the scythe. Not an "easy" fight, just an unfair one. In fact, I remember Quatre having considerable difficulty fighting the Mercurius, despite piloting Wing Zero at the time.

Regantor
06-07-2012, 12:37 PM
Well, okay, fair enough. Even I mentioned that the Serpents were supposed to be pretty capable, but yeah. I'll let go the fact that Trowa literally just stands there shooting, and is still only combating Heero and Duo in Leos at the time; We can put that down to effective bottlenecking or something perhaps.

Does that really excuse the amount of character shielding that the characters get, through? Come to think of it, there was also an episode early on where the sandrock goes down fighting bog-standard suits, but the (never before or since mentioned unless you count the zero system) AI outright asks Quatre to get out and run away before that happens... Which is just bizarre, seeing as one of his entourage totally could have just told him instead.

The technology and plotting are just kinda wacky, and I think that more attention to detail could have made it a hundred times better, that's the only point I'm trying to make. Even Turn-A's main character flying in drag seems to make more sense than half of the stuff in there.

Delphinus
06-07-2012, 04:03 PM
Every time I see this thread I see "I has a goddamn question".

AlmanacnamedTime
06-07-2012, 04:11 PM
I wondered who'd get that first....