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eltoroguaco
06-01-2012, 02:31 PM
Hei. I got suggested to make this thread for help on getting better at arts, so I give it a go.

I have been drawing since February 2010 but really few of those arts have been Manga.

Since I only got 1 art so far that is Manga art and that I'd like critique on, this thread will be short from the start. But I'll add more arts as I make them.

I also plan on starting my own manga using this style, but is still considering it cause of the amount of work behind it.

One note before you start criticizing my art(s). Be gentle. no "MAN YOU SUCK!" sentences cause they really sting and don't point out my obvious flaws, like some shaky shading or a twisted leg. You can give me bad critiques, of course. But be nice when giving them.


Here's my arts so far:
Carolyn
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/05/eltoroguaco-carolyn_1024.png (http://www.mangatutorials.com/index.php?do=/eltoroguaco/photo/the-four-of-diamonds/carolyn/)
I did this in 2 days and it is to now, the art I have spend most time sketching. Went over it 5 times before I was pleased.
PS. I plan to shade this after I've made the rest of my main characters.

Charlie
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/eltoroguaco-charlie-2_1024.png (http://www.mangatutorials.com/index.php?do=/eltoroguaco/photo/the-four-of-diamonds/charlie-2/)
Done in about 4 days. Same as on Carolyn, I might shade later when/if adding all my planned oc pictures together.


MT 100 Theme Challenge

#1 Chibi
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/eltoroguaco-1-chibi-carolyn_500.png (http://www.mangatutorials.com/index.php?do=/eltoroguaco/photo/mt-100-theme-challenge-103/1-chibi-carolyn/)

#21 Elf/Fairies
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/eltoroguaco-fairy-siblings_500.jpg (http://www.mangatutorials.com/index.php?do=/eltoroguaco/photo/mt-100-theme-challenge-103/fairy-siblings/)

#26 Angel
http://i.imgur.com/vsFA7l.jpg (http://eltoroguaco.deviantart.com/art/26-Angel-Curse-of-the-Mirror-of-Lies-323780565)


More to come.

Mr_Liebe
06-01-2012, 02:48 PM
Man, you suck! It sucks, but you will receive crits where the person just laughs at a mistake you've made, and is just a dick. Best you can do is try and look past the insults nad just look at the advice, if the guy gave you any.

Lol, nah, this is some very nice work you've done here. Nice work on the proportions, the face is nice, hair looks great, very nice body work and linework. Nice job on the foreshortening, good work, especially considering the whole 3/4's perspective. I can't wait to see more.

I think you're going to fit in very nicely, bro.

Rainbow_Dash
06-01-2012, 03:05 PM
Honestly. The entire body is fantastic with great proportions but the face, especially the eyes are lacking a very large tone of emotion. Unless this is what you were going for, I suggest you look up some references and see how they vary from yours. All in all fantastic though.

Regantor
06-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Hum. Well the proportions are definitely nice, and I like the detailing, but there are one or two problems here and there. It's borderline a stylistic choice, but I do feel like her face would look alot better if it was slightly lower down, larger, or both (Alternatively, maybe the right side of her chin could do with being slightly further up?...) Other than that, the only thing I can point out otherwise is that her hands are really a bit too small.

The leg you mentioned, on the other hand, I think looks fine... There is a good choice of colours going on there, too.

Hope that was helpful, hombre. >_>

eltoroguaco
06-01-2012, 03:51 PM
it was indeed. Though bigger heads won't happen :P I used to make big heads before and got a little personal hate for it XP But the rest of the critiques I've gotten so far are nice, thanks. I will definitely work this out :)

Shnorkel
06-01-2012, 04:05 PM
I really liked the way you designed her! The body is drawn great, but I think you drew her face misplaced in relation to her chin, either her eyes/nose/mouth needs to be lower and to the left or her chin more higher and to the right.
Actually I've seen this first on the Pimp My Art thread and really considered pimpin it cause I'm diggin her outfit and hair.

Keep on drawing! :)

JJJorgie
06-01-2012, 04:45 PM
Great job. By the way, I pretty sure Regantor meant bigger face, not bigger head. As in, the features should fill up the space of the face.

eltoroguaco
06-01-2012, 06:20 PM
JJorgie, yh I figured that out after I replied xD My apologies to Regantor.


Actually I've seen this first on the Pimp My Art thread and really considered pimpin it cause I'm diggin her outfit and hair.
You go ahead ;) Just remember to cred/tag me as the owner of the character :P

Demonfyre
06-01-2012, 07:40 PM
That is one awesome character :D and that was only your first go? I'm looking forward to seeing more from you xD also on the line of critique all I noticed has already been mentioned :/

eltoroguaco
06-01-2012, 07:53 PM
first in a year yes... I have been drawing oekaki before, but it was so poor you could hardly see what it was.

Rubisko
06-02-2012, 02:54 AM
So I guess you know this since you drew it, but the relation between the length of the upper and lower body is 3:4. I remember that when I first looked into manga I saw some tutorials that encouraged those proportions, but I have still never actually seen someone use this in a reasonable way. One of the problems that emerge when the upper body is too short is that the arms either needs to be adjusted to fit the short upper body (so that the elbows line up with the lower part of the ribcage), or they are kept at the correct length in relation to the legs. In the first case the arms will seem too short, and in the second case the arms will seem too long. If you want too avoid making this decision I suggest you keep the ration approximately between 7:8 and 8:7.

Yeah but good job, and I just want to point out that even though this is Manga Tutorials a lot of the artists around here are very good at art in general, and if you want feedback on a piece that isn't really manga no one will rage on you for posting it here.

Matt
06-02-2012, 07:46 AM
^ I'll second Rubisko's last paragraph. Manga is nice, but we draw pretty much everything here. I was waiting to post a critique about the chin's alignment with the rest of the face, but that was taken, so I'll wait till your next picture.

eltoroguaco
06-02-2012, 08:14 AM
So I guess you know this since you drew it, but the relation between the length of the upper and lower body is 3:4. I remember that when I first looked into manga I saw some tutorials that encouraged those proportions, but I have still never actually seen someone use this in a reasonable way. One of the problems that emerge when the upper body is too short is that the arms either needs to be adjusted to fit the short upper body (so that the elbows line up with the lower part of the ribcage), or they are kept at the correct length in relation to the legs. In the first case the arms will seem too short, and in the second case the arms will seem too long. If you want too avoid making this decision I suggest you keep the ration approximately between 7:8 and 8:7.

Sry for being a noob but... I do not understand the measure 3:4, 7:8 and 8:7... could you describe more what it means?


Yeah but good job, and I just want to point out that even though this is Manga Tutorials a lot of the artists around here are very good at art in general, and if you want feedback on a piece that isn't really manga no one will rage on you for posting it here.

Done and done. Updated the first page with some of my fave pictures from my Deviantart Gallery. Feel free to critic those if you wish. Just keep in mind that they are not manga so they will not have the same art rules. They are sorted from oldest to newest (top to bottom) so the oldest ones are half a year old already.

MiguelAndrew
06-02-2012, 08:16 AM
The face perspective and its shape in side view. Sideviews usually make the eyes differ in shape and the direction where its looking at.
Some tutorials in face proportion will help.
The body proportion and your rendering skills is great but can be improved.
hehehe.:cat_thumbsup:

Rubisko
06-02-2012, 12:33 PM
If I got two sticks, one of length x units, and one of length y units, then the relation between their lengths can be expressed as x:y. When I said that the length of the upper body and the length of the lower body is 3:4 it simply means that the upper body is three fourths of the length of the lower body. So it doesn't have anything to do with art at all, but it's just a convenient notation, just take a look at a map :)


Just keep in mind that they are not manga so they will not have the same art rules.

oh yes, they will. Other than the obvious stylistic difference nothing separates manga from what you've drawn previously, just as there's no difference between drawing a dragon and a human, or a human and a flowerpot. The fundamentals is 1:1 ;)

I hope to see more and new stuff from you. Keep it up!

eltoroguaco
06-02-2012, 12:52 PM
haha that wasn't about the length :P that was cause at some styles, the head is supposed to be big or the legs are supposed to be small... etc. just as the eyes are usually big in manga. :P

But thanks for the clarification ;)

Gaff
06-02-2012, 05:47 PM
If you've still to shade it, you might have thought of this already, but I think the outline of her right hand and her pistol are a bit lost against her black clothing. If you add a few highlights to pick out their edges, it shouldn't be a problem though.

Her right thigh looks short as well, but again, it's not a big deal. If you can bring her knee and the rest of her leg down a little further, it should be fine.

eltoroguaco
06-02-2012, 07:11 PM
I won't change the picture. But yes I will shade her. Have been thinking of the gun end, it's easy to make more visible with shadings

eltoroguaco
06-04-2012, 05:11 PM
New art up now! Since this is my first male after I started with Oekaki/manga arts again, I'd like critics on him as well XP He was really tricky cause he's supposed to be a bit tall so needed to remember tall guys body shape.

It is on the first post, but for you that's too lazy to check it... I hide it here under a spoiler tab as well.
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/eltoroguaco-charlie-2_1024.png

Matt
06-04-2012, 07:51 PM
I like the foreshortening on the gun(? That would have to fire some oddly-shaped bullets) and the detail you put into it. The lines are nice and clean as well.

But, well, nothing's perfect. The head is a bit wide for his features. The chin is closer this time, but now our left side of his head seems too separated from his eyes. Actually, I'll just whip up a quick redline. I like those better anyway:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/799/guacocharlieredline.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/guacocharlieredline.png/)
Link to some Bridgman. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4461737/Constructive-Anatomy-by-George-Bridgman)

The text, in case that's too small to read:
When lined up, the eyes, nose, and mouth will usually form a T, more or less, with lines drawn between them. Some variation is allowed, as most people do have asymmetrical faces, by not by too much.

In this picture, his features seem to be on different planes, and are off considering the shape of his head--which is also slightly off. It almost looks like he's looking down, but his eyes don't match up.

Though I highly recommend getting a better reference than my redline, this is probably closer to what you're looking for. Look at yourself in the mirror in a 3/4 view. Though you're not drawing realism, it really helps to reference it or at least a semirealistic manga/cartoon style. Like DC comics or Vagabond.

For proportional heads, I like to use George Bridgman's method: draw a cube and work from there. A cube is good for measuring symmetry without whipping out a ruler, and is easier to draw proportionally from than a simple circle and lines. Of course, this can make your heads look a bit stiff and mechanical, but it's all a matter of learning to use it.

The blocking method can be used for anime and cartoon heads as well.

Though I say that and though I prefer Bridgman's method, I won't tell you that his is better than anyone else's. I find that it works well for me, and it may or may not work for you.

Also, you can use blocks and rectangular prisms for the rest of the body as well.

eltoroguaco
06-04-2012, 08:24 PM
I mostly work on sircles :P Blocks and Rectangles just annoys me to use as refs. I suppose it has something to do with how you first learned how to draw XP But thanks for the hints. His head was supposed to be tilting down, but I had huge problems on making the eyes fit as they should. So I must admit I knew his eyes were wrong, just was too tired of working on them to care for it xD but that T shape hint seems like a good idea. I'll remember that for when I get to the face on my next art.

Zero0
06-04-2012, 11:05 PM
I hope it's not to late, but If you still want a critique, I'm willing to show you some of the things I saw in this. This is an easy fix! You are capable of some serious stuff, so I don't think this'll be all that hard for you.

My way of critiquing things is different. I just post your picture next to a identical picture (that I drew). That way you can actually SEE what the differences are! Would that be okay?


~Zero

eltoroguaco
06-04-2012, 11:17 PM
go ahead ;)

No need to ask. I got this to see what I can improve later and so far, it've been of great help.

eltoroguaco
06-17-2012, 12:54 PM
Sry double post.

Since everyone else of those I've seen with a critique thread and a saimoe entrance do this, I'll do the same.

Here's my saimoe entrance:
http://i.imgur.com/fEQjll.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/9M6Yk.jpg)
Click the picture for a larger view and with the ref sheet & info

Feel free to critique it, but remember it will not be changed. The hints and critiques I get, I use on later images :P

Demonfyre
06-17-2012, 12:57 PM
That looks really good Guaco :D

As her face is turned in a 3/4 view her right eye should be compressed more and the iris brought to the left side of the eye (if she is looking at us) :) and personally I think the hands are too small but that's it :D good luck with your entry :)

Loving the colour scheme you chose for her by the way xD

eltoroguaco
06-17-2012, 01:05 PM
the hands are enlarged already btw :P they were way smaller when I first made her. Got hints by another member here through skype on enlarging. Didn't want bigger cause I did not think that fit... But such are based on personal liking I suppose :P
thanks though! Hope I at least pass the qualification XP

Matt
06-17-2012, 02:40 PM
Some people have smaller hands. For all intents and purposes, the hands are fine (at least for now--you'll definitely want to work on their proportions in future drawings).

I know this is your art thread, but I'm going to critique your writing because your art is decent and I'm much better at critiquing writing anyway:

Where are her flaws? Where are her humanizing traits? What aspects of her personality would draw me to her? In her bio, it says Sylia hates nothing. Generally, unless you have perfect, compassionate, unyielding understanding of literally everything and everyone who ever existed, you're going to hate something. Unless you're going for a JC figure, she'd best have something she's struggling to overcome, or some deep, dark facet of her personality that she grudgingly accepts, but hides away from everybody. And no, that can't be something like a one-time accident that never really hurt anyone that she blames herself for. Or it can't be an accident that seriously hurt someone that she blames herself for even though it wasn't really her fault. Also, it shouldn't be something stupid like "can't cook" in a story where she has no need to cook.

That all said, you can go overboard with flaws. Your character needs some redeeming features. She can't be completely evil, or else she'll turn out like my entry for last season.

It's probably too late to make changes this season, but you can apply that whenever you write a character, not just for Saimoe.

eltoroguaco
06-17-2012, 03:07 PM
sure. But did not want to include bad stuff since cuteness is a theme for the entry :P Thought that including flaws would make her less cute XP She's an elf, so she do not have that much "human" flaws :P So that is an important fact there. Ofc, elves also make mistakes, but they're trained from birth to control their emotions and for the most part the bad emotions. Elves that fail to control their bad emotions, gets banned and their powers removed. That is all stuff I plan to include when submitting details of creatures in Lagoora (My world), but I haven't made enough to submit it yet.

But if you want her flaws.
She got a problem to take things for granted and forgive too easily. Which gets her into trouble more than once. Another flaw is that she misuse her "arcane" strength too much and sometimes hurt people unintentionally. She never hate, but she can dislike. So things she dislikes would be common stuff like some kinds of animals or food courses. But those are not interesting facts. What could be interesting stuff she dislikes are outcasts (banned elves) and Fairies. She don't want to be a racist. But she got a hidden hate for fairies cause of their communistic nature.

I will write full bios of all my characters when I'll start using them in more than random pictures (If I ever get to that point) but as said, to this contest I hid the flaws intentionally :P

Matt
06-17-2012, 04:28 PM
I see where you're coming from, but I think the flaws should always be included. A good character doesn't have to be relatable; only believable. A flawless person, under any threat, is unbelievable (in real life, there's hell, prison, death, torture, estrangement--all sorts of terrible punishments for misbehaving, yet we all do to some degree; some greater than others).

Flaws can add to a character's cuteness, believe it or not. Too many and you've got an unbelievably evil villain, like my avatar, and too few and you've got what can be loosely defined as a Mary Sue.

-

As for Sylia, I skimmed most of the flaws you mentioned, but latched onto her racism. I imagined her and her friends joking around and totally trash-talking fairies, then a scene where she met a fairy, in front of her friends, and had a visible struggle while deciding how to treat her, eventually being totally stoic toward both parties, neither insulting nor complimenting the fairy, but going back to bashing fairies with her friends afterward, maybe a little less harshly. This could add to her cute factor because, while racism is ugly in real life, putting it between fairies and elves disconnects a reader just enough that s/he's not seeing whites and blacks, and therefore can still see the flaw and not hate the character for it.

Demonfyre
06-17-2012, 04:32 PM
the hands are enlarged already btw :P they were way smaller when I first made her. Got hints by another member here through skype on enlarging. Didn't want bigger cause I did not think that fit... But such are based on personal liking I suppose :P
thanks though! Hope I at least pass the qualification XP

Matt summed it up with the hands :) but that was just an observation and i'm sure you will be able to pass the qualification :D again good luck i'm sure you'll do well :3

eltoroguaco
06-17-2012, 04:37 PM
good point... also, a part I could include but think I forgot when I was at it is that she got few friends cause most people find her extremely annoying by always being too positive and not to mention curious on everything. xD

I see what you mean about the flaws and will include those on later entries :P This picture is not meant as a ref sheet, why I did not include everything about the character, but I see now that for a contest entry, I should've included such anyway. Hope it won't affect the entry too much XP

spidergoth
06-17-2012, 07:34 PM
Looking through the thread one thing I think you should work on is defining the elbows and knees of your characters maybe it has more to do with muscle defining. For example the girl in the swimsuit her thighs in particular lack the sort of natural curves of the muscles that would be there. I don't want to be redundant that's the only thing I can think to point out right now that wasn't said already. Your style is really cute and you're doing fine so good luck ^_^

eltoroguaco
06-17-2012, 07:41 PM
yh, muscles bugs me on that style... Especially on females. I must find extremely bad refs. Besides, it's a comic style. In most comic styles, they don't care about muscle shapes as it takes too long to make on panels and is hard to get right :P But when making still pictures, I should definitely work on that. Thanks for the hint ;)

spidergoth
06-17-2012, 07:59 PM
the manga I've read the do spend some time on muscle definition It is just a slight change on curving the legs not too detailed or anything. I think it will make your art look better but feel free to do what you like.

eltoroguaco
06-17-2012, 08:11 PM
yes it will definitely look better! I agree xD Just think it'll take a while before I manage to do it... But hey, can do everything with some practise ;)

eltoroguaco
06-26-2012, 09:52 AM
Made a new picture now. For a small contest on deviantart.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/178/0/0/busted_badger_by_eltoroguaco-d5518sq.jpg (http://eltoroguaco.deviantart.com/art/Busted-Badger-310787018?q=gallery%3Aeltoroguaco&qo=0)

Feel free to critique it, but note I have already noticed certain things like, not enough depth on the barrels, some colour slipoff and failed alignment on the goblet.

PS. This is not manga. It's done in my own comic style, but with the same kind of shading I used on my saimoe entry.

Demonfyre
06-26-2012, 12:04 PM
Haha that is awesome Guaco :D I don't see anything wrong with the colouring but that is probably because I'm a complete novice at colouring :L the only thing that sticks out to me is the right foot, I would have expected that it to be held up like the left foot rather than sitting on the floor :)

Good luck with your DA competition :D

eltoroguaco
06-29-2012, 07:58 PM
I first thought of not doing this cause it says in the rules to not post all arts only to show'em, since that's what the gallery is for.

But when I come to think of it, every critique is good critique.
So from now, I'll upload my pictures from the 100 theme challenge here aswell. So you guys can critique it and help me improve ;)

#21 Elf/Fairies
http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/06/eltoroguaco-fairy-siblings_500.jpg (http://www.mangatutorials.com/index.php?do=/eltoroguaco/photo/mt-100-theme-challenge-103/fairy-siblings/)

Only one I got so far :P

Demonfyre
06-29-2012, 08:03 PM
The only thing that stands out to me is that the wrists are really thin, but that could also be stylistic I would imagine :) I would also try to make the eye that is further away from the viewer a bit narrower to really give the effect of the face at a 3/4 angle (especially with the fairy on the right) :) by far one of the most awesome things i've seen you upload :D can't wait for your next entry :)

eltoroguaco
06-29-2012, 08:08 PM
the skinny arms are intended cause of them being fairies :P They're scary thin xD Butterfly like you know.

But yh, eyes is something I need to practise on. ;) Thanks for that hint =D You seem to always be there to critique, comment and fave my arts, threads and statuses here, Demon. Are you a fan? Or just that interested in this site and its members?

Sunny
06-29-2012, 08:09 PM
I like the emotion in the girls.

The first thing I noticed, though, is that the torsos seem a bit short for the bodies.

Also, the ribbons on the one on the left around the leg should curve more.

I love the designs, and I really think they're super cute and you did well.

eltoroguaco
07-01-2012, 08:54 AM
New art for the challenge is made!

http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/07/eltoroguaco-1-chibi-carolyn_500.png (http://www.mangatutorials.com/index.php?do=/eltoroguaco/photo/mt-100-theme-challenge-103/1-chibi-carolyn/)

Here is Carolyn again. Only now, she's a child living at an orphanage with a cat she found at the streets that became her only friend. She's a bit goth, so the character and the background is designed to fit that musical genre.

There is also a wallpaper version of this.

http://i.imgur.com/NE2mbl.png (http://i.imgur.com/qRd6X.png)

Use it if you like it, but do not post it anywhere on the internet without my permission!

eltoroguaco
08-27-2012, 06:29 PM
Doubleposting myself here...

http://i.imgur.com/vsFA7l.jpg (http://eltoroguaco.deviantart.com/art/26-Angel-Curse-of-the-Mirror-of-Lies-323780565)

New art.

Rubisko
08-28-2012, 04:58 PM
I think that you have managed to get the general story in this piece across to the viewer. There are some technical errors, from perspective in the drawing to the values and the cast shadows, but my main concern is that the painting is heavily unbalanced, with almost everything placed on the right side of the composition. Maybe it could be improved by cropping, or perhaps you need to add some elements to it. The emphasis on the angel is good with all the contrast going on between the skin/hair and the dark dress.

eltoroguaco
08-28-2012, 05:54 PM
oh I added all the black on the left side to make it look like a wallpaper :P so it had the picture on one side and text on the other. Wasn't meant to be balanced. However, I could make it blacker, as my screen brightness and contrast was a bit off, I couldn't see that the shadow there didn't hide the background entirely as I wanted. After I fixed my monitor brightness/contrast, I saw that the background behind the black shading was still visible. Could fix it, but didn't want to edit an already submitted picture xD