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Tanatos
05-25-2012, 08:39 PM
Helo everyone, looks like I received a Phoenix down and came back after a while.

And I'm here to open a discussion with you all, are video games too easy nowdays? I ask this because it's obvious that you don't have to struggle too hard to beat a game (as it seems). Just compare Resident Evil (one) with Resident Evil 4 (I'm comparing because I've played both). RE4 have such a ridiculous puzzles compared with the first that make me think that game industries is make it easier or else the game wont sell.

And what do you think? (Sorry for my foreign grammar lol)

jubeh
05-25-2012, 08:41 PM
Yes every game in the entire world is too easy

Tanatos
05-25-2012, 08:46 PM
Oldschool games were hardcore.

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 08:47 PM
I wouldn't consider RE1 hard so much as it was badly designed. Tank controls could make anything much more difficult than it had to be.

GunZet
05-25-2012, 08:48 PM
There's a fine line between making a game difficult on a fun level, and difficult on a completely annoying level. Indie games have been doing the latter for a while now. Games like Super Meat Boy, Bit.Trip Runner, etc all get so crazy hard that it just makes you wanna stop after the first 100 deaths.
And a lot of these times it's the mechanics that make a game so hard these days. SMB has these slippery, precise, platforming controls. You die on contact with anything relatively lethal.
Bit.Trip Runner is easy in a sense, but if you stop for any reason, you're tossed back to the beginning of a level that can take about 4mins to finish, just because you missed a step. So you end up torturing yourself rather than having fun.

Now if you wanna talk about games that aren't indie, that are super insane crazy hard, I've heard Dark Souls is ass-raping tough. The closest thing I've played to that would be The Witcher 2, which will make you want to kill yourself at any difficulty above normal because the controls feel so delayed, and some enemies can move twice as fast as you.

So no, I don't think games these days are too easy. Usually well... it's probably because you're playing on 'easy mode'. Every game handles difficulty in it's own way, some purposely make it easy, some make it a nightmare... literally, and some like to hit that mark between fun and profitable, because in the end, you're playing a game for fun, right?

jubeh
05-25-2012, 08:50 PM
Yeah re1 was hard cuz it controlled like a sack of ass. Arcade games were hard so you would spend lots of money on them. Early console games were hard so you would buy them instead of renting them.

We are fortunate enough currently to have games that accommodate any difficulty you want.

ClockHand
05-25-2012, 08:50 PM
Now if you wanna talk about games that aren't indie, that are super insane crazy hard, I've heard Dark Souls is ass-raping tough. The closest thing I've played to that would be The Witcher 2, which will make you want to kill yourself at any difficulty above normal because the controls feel so delayed, and some enemies can move twice as fast as you.

If you consider The Witcher 2 that hard, you really need to try Dark Souls, it's fucking glorious.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 08:51 PM
Did you even play witcher 2

ClockHand
05-25-2012, 08:52 PM
Ya, it was cool, I want to buy it now.

But dragon's dogma is in the way.

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 08:52 PM
Dark Souls is not all that hard. Anything that allows you to build a character to perfectly handle situations is not super difficult.

And yeah, I talked about that issue with Indie games. Some indie devs are making games for the sake of being difficult. Like literally the premise of games like Super Meat Boy and N is: "here, try to get through [x] number of levels!" And much of it is just repeating things and trial and error. I think I had this discussion with Jubeh about how you don't really ever "master" those types of games...you just luck your way through each level.

Sylux
05-25-2012, 08:53 PM
Portal 2 has some tricky puzzles I guess but I'm just really unintelligent and have bad problem solving skills so it confuses me sometimes. Never looked up a guide, though, since I do LP's and don't want to cheat right in front of the viewers.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 08:53 PM
Dark Souls is not all that hard. Anything that allows you to build a character to perfectly handle situations is not super difficult.

I've been calling this dark souls dissonance. People who have beaten dark souls seem to remember that it wasn't that hard but yes it definitely was.

ClockHand
05-25-2012, 08:54 PM
I think hard games have a potential in creating immersion from the player in to the game. The actual challenge can force people get more aware of what is going on, learn all the movement patterns from an enemy, learn all puzzles and be afraid to die. Not saying all games should be hard, but there is something we can learn from hard games.


I've been calling this dark souls dissonance. People who have beaten dark souls seem to remember that it wasn't that hard but yes it definitely was.

In retrospective, you realized you were a shitty player and the game wasn't hard, it was that you were just shitty at it. I believe this is where the dark souls dissonance comes from.

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 08:55 PM
Man did you even read my posts in the DS thread. I never really found it that hard. It was just a little bit grindy. And for people who did find it hard, it's an RPG. You can grind. Grinding is like the anti-difficulty.

Well, actually, I did have trouble in the grave of giants because I kept getting knocked off ledges. But that's one area.


And yeah I'm with Clock on this one. After you beat DS it's like *looks up ideal character builds* "Wow, I could have had a much better character".

jubeh
05-25-2012, 08:56 PM
Grinding is there as a crutch for ez moders. The game literally lets you never level up.

ClockHand
05-25-2012, 08:56 PM
Man did you even read my posts in the DS thread. I never really found it that hard. It was just a little bit grindy. And for people who did find it hard, it's an RPG. You can grind. Grinding is like the anti-difficulty.

Well, actually, I did have trouble in the grave of giants because I kept getting knocked off ledges. But that's one area.

OP on the run?

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 08:59 PM
Grinding is there as a crutch for ez moders. The game literally lets you never level up.

TBH all most people ever talk about is going to the forest and grinding spirits.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 08:59 PM
You are telling me that at least 51% of people you have talked to about dark souls only talked about that one very specific exploit.

Tanatos
05-25-2012, 09:00 PM
To help improve my argments http://www.computerandvideogames.com/321252/features/are-games-too-easy/ <~~ This!

jubeh
05-25-2012, 09:02 PM
What a bad article

Sylux
05-25-2012, 09:03 PM
A lot of devs try to get the story told quickly because they like to think they're great writers and their writing can carry the horribly easy gameplay

jubeh
05-25-2012, 09:04 PM
A lot of devs try to get the story told quickly because they like to think they're great writers and their writing can carry the horribly easy gameplay

What

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 09:05 PM
You are telling me that at least 51&#37; of people you have talked to about dark souls only talked about that one very specific exploit.

That or the damn Drakesword.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 09:07 PM
I am actually okay with those things in the game because dark souls gives you the tools to play how you want. Grabbing the drake sword is essentially hitting easy mode at a menu in which there is no shame.

ClockHand
05-25-2012, 09:09 PM
In a friend house I saw how he played darksouls, basically he overleveled to 60 and he killed the bell gargoyles in 2 hits. It really wasn't as provocative and intimidating as when I fought the bell gargoyles.

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 09:11 PM
Which is why I refrain from calling DS easy because it could've been much harder if I'd played differently. But I'd say calling it "crazy hard" is also an overstatement. It might be if you don't actually research the game beforehand as far as the significance of various stats, etc.

GunZet
05-25-2012, 09:11 PM
I'm guessing to get to that level, there was a ton of grinding involved, right?
But I mean, it was -fun-... right? Not a chore?

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 09:14 PM
I actually did have to grind at the Tomb of the Giants (that's what it was called) cuz the guys in there were taking FOREVER to kill and I would eventually get pushed off a ledge in the time it took to kill one.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 09:14 PM
Are you for real

Edit @gunzet

how is grinding not a chore ever

GunZet
05-25-2012, 09:16 PM
Are you for real

Edit @gunzet

how is grinding not a chore ever

I find it fun to grind if it's arena-ish. Like not the same enemies over and over and over and OVER AND OVER. Keeps me from realizing I'm grinding.

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 09:56 PM
If you're purposefully refraining from moving on with the main story (or some other objective), then you're pretty much grinding. So it's pretty obvious to me when I'm grinding because I know I'm putting off progress.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 10:18 PM
That not always the case

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 10:33 PM
It is if you're spending all of that time you're not progressing just fighting for gold, exp, items, etc.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 10:33 PM
Do u remember brave fencer musashi or megaman legends

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 10:42 PM
Brave Fencer is not fresh in my mind but how could I forget MML.

I don't remember grinding in MML. o_O Unless you wanna call those dungeons grinding. Usually you only did those to upgrade your diggers license.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 10:43 PM
Naw thats what Im saying you had all these sidequests to do and maybe they had benefits but idr if they did because I just remember how fun they were

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 10:45 PM
Well that's what I mean by "some other objective". A sidequest can be considered a small plot arc of its own, especially if it has unique NPCs and dialog and such. Technically even getting through a bonus dungeon is "progress". What I mean by grinding is walking in circles on the world map or in tall grass for an hour. Or repeating old dungeons.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 10:53 PM
Yeah "some other objective" doesn't really say anything its so vague. What if your objective is to run around in circles.

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 10:54 PM
I have never played a game where a mission or quest was to run around in circles. Well except FFX, in the thunder plains, but that would be the definition of grinding for items.

jubeh
05-25-2012, 10:56 PM
Well let's say that your definition of grinding is severely limited by your lack of experience with games that want you to do that

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 10:57 PM
Where have you played a game where an in-game objective was to run around in circles?

jubeh
05-25-2012, 10:59 PM
Duck duck goose

Sconethief
05-25-2012, 11:00 PM
Eh, most games are pretty easy now. I prefer my games a bit more challenging like dark souls or monster hunter, they're challenging but not impossible. Then if i'm feeling gutsy I'll play super meat boy or bit trip runner. Other then those most games are pretty easy other than online games.

CypressDahlia
05-25-2012, 11:00 PM
http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/5/59/Pokerface_open.jpg/618px-Pokerface_open.jpg

Matt
05-25-2012, 11:09 PM
>First playthrough of Rage; feeling gutsy, choose Nightmare difficulty.
>Start playing cautiously, play for an hour or so.
>Double-check difficulty.
>What the heck, this is really freaking easy on Nightmare.

On the other hand, Jamestown is stupidly hard once you get to the upper difficulties, even with another player. It's a lot of fun, though.

Hant_iiha_cohacomxoj
07-13-2012, 05:35 PM
Where have you played a game where an in-game objective was to run around in circles?
Duck duck goose

lol

jubeh
07-13-2012, 05:39 PM
Please don't bump old topics for no reason